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Move Infestation (and trapping moves in general)
- Thread starter Banryu
- Start date
- Status
I feel like Jumpluff is a good candidate.
His movementpool practically screams for it.
Protect + Bounce, Substitude , Cotton Guard , Synthesis , Sleeping Powder , [Encore] , [Double Team] , [Attract]
His movementpool practically screams for it.
Protect + Bounce, Substitude , Cotton Guard , Synthesis , Sleeping Powder , [Encore] , [Double Team] , [Attract]
Cradily@Binding Band
Suction Cups
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Sandstorm/Toxic
~ Stockpile
~ Rest
If you want something with the legs (stubs?) to last without the need of Leftovers then get a look at Cradily. It's typing isn't the best defensively but with 86/97/107 defenses and a ton of recovery options it can stick around. Speaking of sticking, Suction Cups are handy in that this annoying menace can't be phased out in case you trap something with Whirlwind/Roar. Sandstorm has the added benefit of dealing passive damage to many types you'd want to trap as well as giving a huge boost to Cradily's special defense. If you have a Tyranitar/Hippowdon though then you could opt for Toxic instead. Stockpile enough to a safe level and then Rest to get back to full. Why Rest? Because Toxic will ruin your day. He can use Recover instead though if you'd really prefer. Now as for a more passive healing iteration.
Cradily@Leftovers
Storm Drain
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Ingrain/Giga Drain
~ Protect
~ Sludge Bomb
Ingrain with Leftovers restores 1/8th HP per turn like Poison Heal would. Sadly he can't get Leech Seed but with Protect you can prevent damage altogether while healing up. Storm Drain allows for an extra potential switch in and much better at trapping Water types and if you nab a boost this actually helps you heal offensively in Giga Drain. Sludge Bomb is also there to benefit from the SpA increase as well as having a decent 30% chance to poison the target, helping with Infestation. Again, run him with Sand support for further damage to the enemy and the great SpD boost.
Jumpluff@Leftovers
Infiltrator
Timid 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 Spd
~ Infestation
~ Leech Seed
~ Substitute
~ Protect/Sleep Powder
Probably already mentioned but man this guy is the bomb. Unlike most Grass types Jumpluff has a great 110 base speed stat to fire off now unblockable Leech Seeds and set up his Substitutes. Not even a Sub will protect the enemy from Sleep Powder allowing for lots of free turns for Infestation and Leech Seed to do their work. If the accuracy is giving you headaches though you could simply opt for Protect instead of course.
Jellicent@Leftovers/Lum Berry/Binding Band
Cursed Body
Calm 252 HP / 130 Df / 126 SpD
~ Bind
~ WoW/Scald
~ Protect/Confuse Ray/Night Shade/Brine
~ Recover
Oh.... dear lord. Jellicent is bad enough some times, but what about a Jellicent you can't escape from? With great special defense and access to burn he can cover both sides of the spectrum while Bind slowly does it's job with burn damage. Recover helps a lot to outstall your opponent. You have lots of additional options though outside the mandatory Bind/Recover. Confuse Ray has the potential to give you free turns to heal while also damaging the enemy still. Night Shade will do 100 dmg every time regardless of their defenses, and Brine becomes the ultimate coup de grace move when they inevitably sink below 50%.
Dusclops@Eviolite
Pressure
Calm 252 HP / 126 Df / 130 SpD
~ Infestation
~ WoW/Nightshade/Curse
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
Dusclops looks into your soul... then takes a nap. Because Dusclops is relegated to Resttalk for healing, which isn't horrible considering it's astoundingly high defenses with Eviolite. Sleep Talk enables you to continue throwing out Infestation and WoW until they die. Nightshade again will do consistent damage and it probably a better option for Sleep Talk. Curse is just hilariously cheap and really not worth using, just thought you should know he gets it.
Quagsire@Leftovers
Unaware
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Yawn/Scald/Muddy Water
~ Protect
~ Amnesia/Scald
For the lower tiers Quagsire is a booster's worst nightmare. He didn't even know you were Bulking Up and so, out of sight out of mind, it never happened! Yawn and Protect will give you the turns you need for good Leftovers recovery. Amnesia patches up your pretty low SpD while they are asleep. Alternatively you could go specially bulky and go for Scald burns which add to the damage and weakens their attack.
I'll stop there. They just start to get tacky after this lol
Better idea, recover on cradily and quagsire.
Cradily@Binding Band
Suction Cups
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Sandstorm/Toxic
~ Stockpile
~ Rest
If you want something with the legs (stubs?) to last without the need of Leftovers then get a look at Cradily. It's typing isn't the best defensively but with 86/97/107 defenses and a ton of recovery options it can stick around. Speaking of sticking, Suction Cups are handy in that this annoying menace can't be phased out in case you trap something with Whirlwind/Roar. Sandstorm has the added benefit of dealing passive damage to many types you'd want to trap as well as giving a huge boost to Cradily's special defense. If you have a Tyranitar/Hippowdon though then you could opt for Toxic instead. Stockpile enough to a safe level and then Rest to get back to full. Why Rest? Because Toxic will ruin your day. He can use Recover instead though if you'd really prefer. Now as for a more passive healing iteration.
Cradily@Leftovers
Storm Drain
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Ingrain/Giga Drain
~ Protect
~ Sludge Bomb
Ingrain with Leftovers restores 1/8th HP per turn like Poison Heal would. Sadly he can't get Leech Seed but with Protect you can prevent damage altogether while healing up. Storm Drain allows for an extra potential switch in and much better at trapping Water types and if you nab a boost this actually helps you heal offensively in Giga Drain. Sludge Bomb is also there to benefit from the SpA increase as well as having a decent 30% chance to poison the target, helping with Infestation. Again, run him with Sand support for further damage to the enemy and the great SpD boost.
Jumpluff@Leftovers
Infiltrator
Timid 252 HP / 4 Df / 252 Spd
~ Infestation
~ Leech Seed
~ Substitute
~ Protect/Sleep Powder
Probably already mentioned but man this guy is the bomb. Unlike most Grass types Jumpluff has a great 110 base speed stat to fire off now unblockable Leech Seeds and set up his Substitutes. Not even a Sub will protect the enemy from Sleep Powder allowing for lots of free turns for Infestation and Leech Seed to do their work. If the accuracy is giving you headaches though you could simply opt for Protect instead of course.
Jellicent@Leftovers/Lum Berry/Binding Band
Cursed Body
Calm 252 HP / 130 Df / 126 SpD
~ Bind
~ WoW/Scald
~ Protect/Confuse Ray/Night Shade/Brine
~ Recover
Oh.... dear lord. Jellicent is bad enough some times, but what about a Jellicent you can't escape from? With great special defense and access to burn he can cover both sides of the spectrum while Bind slowly does it's job with burn damage. Recover helps a lot to outstall your opponent. You have lots of additional options though outside the mandatory Bind/Recover. Confuse Ray has the potential to give you free turns to heal while also damaging the enemy still. Night Shade will do 100 dmg every time regardless of their defenses, and Brine becomes the ultimate coup de grace move when they inevitably sink below 50%.
Dusclops@Eviolite
Pressure
Calm 252 HP / 126 Df / 130 SpD
~ Infestation
~ WoW/Nightshade/Curse
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
Dusclops looks into your soul... then takes a nap. Because Dusclops is relegated to Resttalk for healing, which isn't horrible considering it's astoundingly high defenses with Eviolite. Sleep Talk enables you to continue throwing out Infestation and WoW until they die. Nightshade again will do consistent damage and it probably a better option for Sleep Talk. Curse is just hilariously cheap and really not worth using, just thought you should know he gets it.
Quagsire@Leftovers
Unaware
Impish 252 HP / 252 Df / 4 SpD
~ Infestation
~ Yawn/Scald/Muddy Water
~ Protect
~ Amnesia/Scald
For the lower tiers Quagsire is a booster's worst nightmare. He didn't even know you were Bulking Up and so, out of sight out of mind, it never happened! Yawn and Protect will give you the turns you need for good Leftovers recovery. Amnesia patches up your pretty low SpD while they are asleep. Alternatively you could go specially bulky and go for Scald burns which add to the damage and weakens their attack.
I'll stop there. They just start to get tacky after this lol
sorta, before it would pump binding moves from 1/16 dmg to 1/8, but now since they are 1/8 it goes to 1/6, hardy worth an item slot.
Also,
Since Several ghost pokemon do learn Infestation (Duskclops and Gengar are all i know) you may be able to breed it into Pumkaboo or Phantump.
On a similar note, even having ANY healing with WoW and Infest would be nice
What about an almost sort of quickstall Infestation variation of Dusclops or Dusknoir utilizing Curse?
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Bold/Calm | Pressure/Frisk | 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpDef
- Infestation
- Curse
- Pain Split
- Protect
In theory, this would work on anything that isn't strong enough to KO it in so many turns… Although having to take the time to use Curse, Infestation, AND Pain Split might make it take too much damage, so maybe Night Shade is just straight up the better option. It's a thought, though.
EDIT: Actually in retrospect, using Pain Split for recovery on a set designed to drain the opponent's HP seems like a pretty dumb idea. I'll leave it up for the sake of the weird idea I guess though.
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Bold/Calm | Pressure/Frisk | 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpDef
- Infestation
- Curse
- Pain Split
- Protect
In theory, this would work on anything that isn't strong enough to KO it in so many turns… Although having to take the time to use Curse, Infestation, AND Pain Split might make it take too much damage, so maybe Night Shade is just straight up the better option. It's a thought, though.
EDIT: Actually in retrospect, using Pain Split for recovery on a set designed to drain the opponent's HP seems like a pretty dumb idea. I'll leave it up for the sake of the weird idea I guess though.
I don't think anyone's posted any Shuckle sets yet. I (surprisingly) had a good deal of success on showdown with this:
Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef
Bold Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rest
- Infestation
- Encore/Toxic
With SS and Contrary, you can boost your already crazy nuts defenses into outer space. After one or two, not even boosted SE attacks will do too much. Then you just trap with Infestation and Rest off the damage. Really you need to T-spikes for this to work the best, because you'd really want to run Encore to stop things from trying to match your Shell Smashing with Sword Dance/other set up moves. You could also try Power Trick?
Shuckle @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SDef
Bold Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rest
- Infestation
- Encore/Toxic
With SS and Contrary, you can boost your already crazy nuts defenses into outer space. After one or two, not even boosted SE attacks will do too much. Then you just trap with Infestation and Rest off the damage. Really you need to T-spikes for this to work the best, because you'd really want to run Encore to stop things from trying to match your Shell Smashing with Sword Dance/other set up moves. You could also try Power Trick?
Would a Scolipede set be viable with Speed Boost? Switch in or just send it out on something that can't hurt it very much, Infest, then Swords Dance and sweep with two attacking moves?
Scolipede @ Black Sludge (?)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Infestation
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Earthquake/Poison Jab
Or maybe use it to help set up a Baton Pass?
Scolipede @ Black Sludge (?)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Infestation
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Baton Pass
Scolipede @ Black Sludge (?)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Infestation
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Earthquake/Poison Jab
Or maybe use it to help set up a Baton Pass?
Scolipede @ Black Sludge (?)
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Infestation
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Baton Pass
Even if Pain Split is not good for recovery, you thought of an interesting combo with Curse + Infestation.
Something with a SR neutrality that switches into Infestation then is Cursed on the next turn faints at the end of the turn after that.
If I'm right, that's pretty efficient: 8/8 - 1/8(SR) - 1/8(Trap) = 6/8 ---> 6/8 - 1/8(Trap) - 2/8(Curse) = 3/8 ---> 3/8 - 3/8 = 0
So, as you suggested, the moveset writes itself as Curse + Trap + Protect with useful fourth move.
As for the item, Sitrus berry would ensure that if the trapper avoids being OHKOd on the second turn it'll survive using Curse.
But there's always Leftovers.
The Ghost Pokemon with Curse + Trap are Bannette, Gengar, Chandelure (Fire Spin), Spiritomb and the aforementioned Dusclops family.
I'll only consider the bulky last two. They both learn Will-o-wisp which may be a good choice for the 4th move to spread burns and lower attack.
But Confuse Ray might have potential too. If the foe stays in and gets trapped it'll only have a 50% chance to move each turn.
That improves your chance of success when you only need to survive two more un-Protect-ed turns to faint it.
So another spin on the Dusknoir/Spiritomb set is: Infestation | Curse | Protect | Will-o-wisp/Confuse Ray with Sitrus Berry or Leftovers.
It's interesting to note that Infestation + Burn alone is doing 1/4 of Max HP every turn...
Over 4 turns of trapping during which the trapper can avoid being attacked at least half the time due to Protect...
Curse may even be overkill...lol. Reserve it for cheeky fire types. Burn status alone has nice synergy with these moves.
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Curse is "litrally" worse then shit. Don't use it.
It can be used to get rid of a particularly dangerous Mon that might otherwise destroy your team, at the cost of one Mon. And if its trapped, odds are its going down.
S
So you have enough hit points to hit on the switch with infestation, tank a hit, and then kill half your max hit points with curse, and the survive another action so it doesn't wear off? Seems highly improbable.
An Eviolite Dusclops likely could, and deluge said that you'd hit on the switch with Infestation, assuming your opponent switches when Dusclops comes out.
Dusclops has ungodly defensive stats when maxed out. If he doesn't survive a hit, you're doing it wrong.
No, it really couldn't. He may have high defense, but he has shit hit points, which for some reason unbenounced to me, a bunch of noobs are taking over and not even taking the time invest more then four fucking hit point values in. You tell me one threat, and I will run calcs and prove that they beat him in two hits.
Dusclops @ Eviolite
Bold/Calm | Pressure/Frisk | 252 HP, 252 Def/SpD
- Infestation
- Curse
- Will-o-Wisp
- Rest
Curse isn't entirely useless. It has noticeable weaknesses, but it can be useful against pokemon who wouldn't mind the damage from infestation and Will-o-Wisp. Tangrowth, for instance, can simply shrug off damage with leech seed and Regenerator when it switches out, but it can't survive Curse without synthesis.
Bold/Calm | Pressure/Frisk | 252 HP, 252 Def/SpD
- Infestation
- Curse
- Will-o-Wisp
- Rest
Curse isn't entirely useless. It has noticeable weaknesses, but it can be useful against pokemon who wouldn't mind the damage from infestation and Will-o-Wisp. Tangrowth, for instance, can simply shrug off damage with leech seed and Regenerator when it switches out, but it can't survive Curse without synthesis.
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Use Dusknoir, run Sitrus Berry, use Infestation on switch, survive with at least >25% HP, you're guaranteed to Curse, Protect.
If you're not ready to do that spread burns as it's the only thing the Dusk family does anyway.
(Actually you can Curse even if you have <50% HP and it will faint you which is not necessary a bad thing as you'll be bringing in a Pokemon against a Cursed and possibly burned opponent who couldn't switch until Dusk suicided)
EDIT: The fact that Burn + Trap is like Curse on its own also interesting. The buff to 1/8 damage is highly significant in this respect.
There are quite a few Pokemon with pseudo-trapping moves, Will-o-wisp/Scald and even instant recovery.
Since the pseudo-trapping moves now last at least 4 turns a burned Pokemon that is trapped and cannot KO the trapper due to protecting/healing and its own reduced attack will be in trouble.
If you're not ready to do that spread burns as it's the only thing the Dusk family does anyway.
(Actually you can Curse even if you have <50% HP and it will faint you which is not necessary a bad thing as you'll be bringing in a Pokemon against a Cursed and possibly burned opponent who couldn't switch until Dusk suicided)
EDIT: The fact that Burn + Trap is like Curse on its own also interesting. The buff to 1/8 damage is highly significant in this respect.
There are quite a few Pokemon with pseudo-trapping moves, Will-o-wisp/Scald and even instant recovery.
Since the pseudo-trapping moves now last at least 4 turns a burned Pokemon that is trapped and cannot KO the trapper due to protecting/healing and its own reduced attack will be in trouble.
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Were berries buffed to >50% this gen?
Sitrus restores a quarter of HP when HP falls below half.
So I was saying that Dusk would survive using Curse if Dusk had Sitrus and took a big attack for just under 75% damage.
It learns Memento too, which could also be useful after it burned as much as possible and trapped setup bait for one of your sweepers.
I'd experiment with both Memento and Curse when I get the chance.
BTW, like the ToxiWrap Dragonite, Toxi/ScaldWrap Milotic will probably be pretty annoying as well. Serperior is pretty fast, can do ToxiSeedWrap and has other tools like Synthesis and Taunt. With the end of perma-weather and the buff to trap damage these might be interesting tools for certain types of stall. Ater all, if a pokemon that's already burned, say, switches into Infestation it will have lost 1/2 its HP by the time it finished its first attack: 1/4 on the switch-in turn and 1/4 on the turn you Protect. Really, who cares if you have to switch.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would like to see this theory disproven with calcs.
How about Talonflame, Garchomp, and Azumarill? They're some of the most common pokes used in the "OU (if we can even call it that at this point)" metagame.
Done. But you need to tell me if you are assuming which values, because for now I'll just go with the ones from some of the sets posted.
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 103-122 (46.39 - 54.95%) -- 63.28% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 108-127 (48.64 - 57.2%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO*
I just went with cb because I can almost guarantee that it's always either going to be that, or going to belly drum on the switch. Talonflame calcs to come.
That's interesting. Is 4 HP really standard on something with such a garbage HP stat? I always run mine with 252 HP and use the rest to make it a physical wall. Does that make a major difference? (sorry, I'm really terrible at calcs and I'm not really caught up with gen 6 and its standard sets yet)
No, I run 252 hp, just all the garbage sets here are running 4, which is what I based it on.
Edit here's talonflame.
+2 252+ Atk (custom) Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 126-148 (56.75 - 66.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(126, 127, 129, 130, 132, 133, 135, 136, 138, 139, 141, 142, 144, 145, 147, 148)
Well, it's pretty pointless imho to base your calculations on an obviously suboptimal set; It's better to run HP EVs 99% of time anyway, but Dusclops is such an extreme case that even 252 HP EVs alone are better then 252 Def AND 252 SDef EVs TOGETHER.
Really, you should use 252 HP/ 252+ Def in your calculations because that's the only spread that makes any sense whatsoever.
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