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On the subject of viability rankings, I believe Mega Pidgeot should be S rank. It is very fast, hits hard and is versatile. It can run lots of different sets: an all-out attacker, a stall breaker, a status spreader and a special sweeper.
Tbh, I disagree with literally everything in this statement. Pidgeot doesn't hit hard enough to sweep without setup. With that bulk, it won't be setting up. Literally no way pidgeot breaks stall. Doublade, heatran, and chans all destroy it tbh, not to mention suicune and cress. Also, how does it spread status?
Tbh, I disagree with literally everything in this statement. Pidgeot doesn't hit hard enough to sweep without setup. With that bulk, it won't be setting up. Literally no way pidgeot breaks stall. Doublade, heatran, and chans all destroy it tbh, not to mention suicune and cress. Also, how does it spread status?
Agreed on all accounts. It spreads status with Sing/Hypnosis/Whathaveyou (which I suppose has a niche over, like, Prankster Spore), and I suppose it can run Will-O-Wisp but nigh-anything would be better for that.
In other news, has anyone come up with cool ideas for Hoopa-Unbound? I'm gonna spitball a few here, while trying not to tread on the Tyranitar sets upthread.
Yveltal (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Dread Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely/Hasty Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
This is the most powerful Sucker Punch that Hoopa-U can run, probably. Demonstrative calc:
252+ Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Hoopa Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 188-224 (46.5 - 55.4%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There are a lot of Sheer Force variants/coverages that could work, but this is probably among the best, seeing as how it can lure in Fairy-types and take out two of the tier's best walls:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Hoopa Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Hoopa Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 330-390 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Furfrou (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpD
Relaxed / Impish Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- U-Turn
- Dark Pulse / Grass Knot / Surf / Iron Tail
The EVs equalize its post-AV/Fur Coat defenses. Perhaps a gimmicky set, but Hoopa-U has the power and unexpected bulk to trouble offensive teams. Some demonstrative calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Assault Vest Hoopa: 118-140 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Fur Coat Hoopa: 166-198 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Fur Coat Hoopa: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 36% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Protean Azelf U-turn vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Fur Coat Hoopa: 302-359 (82.9 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hoopa Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Raikou: 165-195 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Hoopa Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 294-346 (81.4 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Hoopa Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 150-177 (55.3 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Hoopa Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 174-205 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (neutral typing)
The set should be self-explanatory: use moves, watch walls die. Dazzling Gleam covers Dark-types better than Dark Pulse does. Future Sight is the set's strongest attack, great to use if you find yourself with a free turn.
There a lot of viable Pursuit sets probably, but I'm tired.
Go ahead and look in that collapsible if you wanna know why Hoopa-U is banned.
Tbh, I disagree with literally everything in this statement. Pidgeot doesn't hit hard enough to sweep without setup. With that bulk, it won't be setting up. Literally no way pidgeot breaks stall. Doublade, heatran, and chans all destroy it tbh, not to mention suicune and cress. Also, how does it spread status?
I'm going to be working with some different people in the OM room to get Snaquaza a rough estimate on the viability rankings, if you're keen on helping pm me.
I disagree on Tornadus-T doing Hurricane spam better than Mega Pidgeot, as Pidgeot's won't miss. But that's by the by.
Some sets I want to try
Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
Calm Mind
Surf
Stored Power
Roost
Inherits from Latias. Pretty much standard CM M-Slowbro, but now with Stored Power!
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Swords Dance
Stone Edge
High Jump Kick
Baton Pass
Inherits from Mienshao. Set up a Swords Dance, KO as much as you can, and if you come to a wall you can't get past simply pass the boost on.
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Taunt
Oblivion Wing
Focus Blast
Dark Pulse / Hurricane / Roost
Inherits from Yveltal. Taunt cripples weak walls, Oblivion Wing is a reliable STAB that also restores HP, Focus Blast hits the Rock and Steel types that resist it, Dark Pulse wrecks Doublade (and gets a DA boost); Hurricane is a much stronger STAB; Roost keeps Tornadus-T healthy
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Fire Blast
Grass Knot
Inherits from Audino. Pretty standard Regen-vest stuff. Thunderbolt for STAB; Ice Beam for Bolt Beam; Fire Blast for Ferrothorn; Grass Knot for Quagsire and Hippowdon. You could use Mesprit instead if you want Levitate and U-turn
Inherits from Mega Rayquaza. Dragon Ascent is your powerful STAB; Waterfall is your safe STAB; Extreme Speed gets priority. Delta Stream negates Gyarados's Rock weakness and reduces its Electric weakness.
I believe I posted this set long ago but people don't like it because "it looks bad why would you use it?" Earlier I got beaten by this thing when playing through Custom games.
Venomoth (Genesect) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (There's probably a better spread than this)
Timid/Modest nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic
Basically set up Quiver Dance then sweep with Bug Buzz. There are 7 types that resists Bug, but nothing is immune to it, so this might be useful because Tinted Lens ignores all those resists unless you're 4x resists. Toxic is for Unawares.
I believe I posted this set long ago but people don't like it because "it looks bad why would you use it?" Earlier I got beaten by this thing when playing through Custom games.
Venomoth (Genesect) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (There's probably a better spread than this)
Timid/Modest nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Bug Buzz
- Toxic
Basically set up Quiver Dance then sweep with Bug Buzz. There are 7 types that resists Bug, but nothing is immune to it, so this might be useful because Tinted Lens ignores all those resists unless you're 4x resists. Toxic is for Unawares.
It can be walled by Unaware Suicune, so mind that
252 SpA Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Unaware Suicune: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
and Levitate Heatran laughs at it
+1 252 SpA Tinted Lens Genesect Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 76-90 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Fire vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Genesect: 228-268 (80.5 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I used HP Fire because I'm not sure what everyone has Heatran use, but if I adjust HP's power up a little:
(65 Power) 0 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Fire vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Genesect: 244-292 (86.2 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
(75 Power) 0 SpA Heatran Hidden Power Fire vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Genesect: 280-336 (98.9 - 118.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
So if it inherits any Fire STAB with more than 75 Power, it's a guaranteed OHKO
Also, I did another thing:
Garchomp @ White Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
This Garchomp inherits from Shuckle. While the idea sounds laughable, Shuckle actually gives a lot of offensive options, like Shell Smash, Knock Off, and Earthquake, while also giving defensive options, like Stealth Rock, Sticky Web, and Infestation.
Levitate Heatran would likely use Flamethrower, as it'll inherit from either Solrock or Hydreigon. Also, I'd use Barbarcle as a donor for that Garchomp set as you also get Tough Claws boosted STAB Dragon Claw. Personally I prefer this Garchomp:
Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
...is a thing you can do. I do disagree that Hurricane spam is the only thing Pidgeot is good for, though. It pulls sets like these off better than Tornadus:
Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Grass Whistle
- Leech Seed
- Substitute (Actually never use this one please)
It's not S rank though. Having a lot of sets does not make you amazing -- it makes you normal. Everything has a million sets in Inheritance (some of them better than others)
Chesnaught can take both of Mega Gyarados' STABs as well as Earthquake at +2 and retaliate with a super-effective Fighting/Grass STAB.
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 124-147 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 5.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 128-151 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- 25.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 85-101 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
But it gets screwed over if Gyarados is running Ice coverage over Earthquake tho.
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 224-264 (58.9 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0- SpA Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 218-258 (57.3 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I can't think of any other pokemon right now. You can always slap Water Absorb/Storm Drain on a pokemon that resists Dark, but that seems a bit too farfetch'd.
I can't think of any other pokemon right now. You can always slap Water Absorb/Storm Drain on a pokemon that resists Dark, but that seems a bit too farfetch'd.
You could try something like this: Keldeo (Slowbro/king) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Focus Blast
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
Forgot Keldeo was banned.
Poliwrath (Slowking) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Drain Punch
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 122-144 (31.7 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 326-384 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (The worst it can do)
0 Atk Poliwrath Drain Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 216-254 (65.2 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
There are no counters to Mega Gyarados, but Poliwrath is a nice check, along with Chesnaught, Azumarill, etc.
The legendary Skill Link Poliwrath can take any hit and break a Sub with Arm Thrust or Rock Blast.
For real though, Mega Gyarados is (in my opinion) a much bigger threat than either Suicune or Altaria. The few times I tried to play stall, my only strategy was to keep phasing it out...which worked fine until it was the last Pokemon, with a Substitute I couldn't break. Needless to say, it Shell Smashed and swept the entire team while at like 1HP. Mega Altaria with Boomburst or Extremespeed works great, but that's really about it.
You could try something like this:
Keldeo (Slowbro/king) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Focus Blast
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
Keldeo's natural bulk is good and its Water + Fighting typing makes it a really good answer to Shell Smash Mega Gyara, though it can carry Aerial Ace (Barbacle) or Zen Headbutt (Carracosta) to get past it still. There aren't really any counters (Mold Breaker makes it especially difficult to find them), but Keldeo (and, by extension, Poliwrath, who can inherit from Slowking and use Drain Punch over FB) is a solid check.
And yeah, Mega-Gyarados scares me way more than Mega-Altaria and because Mega-Altaria is probably the best answer to Mega-Gyarados itself, banning it will make Mega-Gyarados even more powerful. Stall has to run at least one pokemon that can easily break its subs and still watch out for it setting up. One chance to set up a sub and Shell Smash and it's over.
I didn't say it didn't have setup, I said it couldn't reliabily use it because it has terrible bulk as opposed to common setup sweepers like altaria, gyarados, and suicune.
EDIT: Don't want double post but as for gyarados-mega the only thing you can realy do is throh inheriting from breloom with superpower which still is prone to subsitute... but tbh mega gyarados is the best stallbreaker in the meta rn
There's no mon with Shell Smash + Crabhammer, I'm assuming this isn't SD gyara since the subject discussed is Shell Smash.
What mon is the best for this MegaGyara to inherit from anyway? I would assume Carracosta, for (obviously)Shell Smash, Aqua Jet/Waterfall, StoneEdge, EQ, Superpower/Low Kick, Knock Off/Crunch, Iron Head. If there's a better set I'd like to see it.
There's no mon with Shell Smash + Crabhammer, I'm assuming this isn't SD gyara since the subject discussed is Shell Smash.
What mon is the best for this MegaGyara to inherit from anyway? I would assume Carracosta, for (obviously)Shell Smash, Aqua Jet/Waterfall, StoneEdge, EQ, Superpower/Low Kick, Knock Off/Crunch, Iron Head. If there's a better set I'd like to see it.
Huntail gives you ss / waterfall / crunch / sucker and you can't get burned before mega.
Barbaracle is the only one to give ss + taunt, but the rest of the movepool is eh.
Anyway, Hoopa-U is banned, but we still have this lil' fella, doesn't have as much power but still pretty good:
The boost given by wise glasses is actually really noticeable, it gives you a guaranteed 2hko on suicune and chansey without rocks. Psyshock is great to pass some common special walls like goodra, lax or blob.
8 SpD so that Suicune doesn't brake the sub on scald. And chansey can't use some seismic toss shenanigans to break it either.
It's just quite a nice mon to use in general. And can perform quite well against more defensive teams.
There's no mon with Shell Smash + Crabhammer, I'm assuming this isn't SD gyara since the subject discussed is Shell Smash.
What mon is the best for this MegaGyara to inherit from anyway? I would assume Carracosta, for (obviously)Shell Smash, Aqua Jet/Waterfall, StoneEdge, EQ, Superpower/Low Kick, Knock Off/Crunch, Iron Head. If there's a better set I'd like to see it.
There's no mon with Shell Smash + Crabhammer, I'm assuming this isn't SD gyara since the subject discussed is Shell Smash.
What mon is the best for this MegaGyara to inherit from anyway? I would assume Carracosta, for (obviously)Shell Smash, Aqua Jet/Waterfall, StoneEdge, EQ, Superpower/Low Kick, Knock Off/Crunch, Iron Head. If there's a better set I'd like to see it.
Magic Bounce pre-mega gives it a lot of setup opportunities, Substitute + SD (over Shell Smash) lets it keep its bulk and avoid status post-mega, Knock Off and Play Rough are a powerful STAB and a more-or-less ideal coverage move, respectively. The EVs stop Goodra's Dragon Tail from breaking its Substitute pre-mega, but you can also EV it to outspeed uninvested base-100s or Jolly Base-70s or whatever.
It can't break really really bulky stuff like Regirock or Rhydon without a bunch of boosts, though. Don't expect it to do a load of work against teams with offensive presence. You're probably best off dropping Knock Offs early-game to weaken the opposition.
Awesome sets guys! I was just curious what they were because the discussion revolved around its setup spreads. Because of the huge popularity of unaware walls, MegaGyara and MegaAmp seem to be the most threatening sweepers. Ampharos could run an interesting set inheriting from Volbeat, who most notably provides Tail Glow. I mentally dismissed the idea before I even researched Volbeat, but I did anyway and discovered it learns Thunderbolt! Supportin coverage is only Giga Drain, Water Pulse, Dazzling Gleam, Bug Buzz, Shadow Ball, and hidden power dragon/fire/ice/fighting, there is also moonlight and the fact that Ampharos gets Prankster preMega, so it'd it switched in on hazards it can heal before getting hit, or can Tail Glow before a taunt. Consider this:
I didn't feel like searching which moves it gets from it's inheritors so I just took the most powerful one. It doesn't make any difference in the calcs, as Chesnaught can take it either way. Thanks for the clarification tho
Investing in HP for lax isn't the most optimal solution. A spread of 0 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD Gives you the same physical bulk for more Special Bulk, thought I usually like to run 0 HP / 252 SpD Since it's not really taking any hits on the physical side before boost. Dunno what the most optimal spread is but that's the one that I like.
