The Zeraora has to be shiny, because the only way to get a Jirachi with Moonblast is for it to be shiny.
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Metagame Inheritance
- Thread starter Don Vascus
- Start date
Okay, so I made it to 1400 with my team, but I think this is as far as I'll get with it. I'll just post it here in case someone can improve upon it.
:xy/weavile: :xy/tsareena:
Weavile (Tsareena) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Power Whip
My Triage counter and general physical hitter. Wide Lens for reliably hitting Triple Axels. Moveset is standard except for Power Whip in place of High Jump Kick, which I initially tried but found underwhelming (plus there are a bunch of Ghost types running around). Power Whip hits Rhyperior, Keldeo, Urshifu-Rapid, Primarina, etc. harder than your other moves.
:xy/toxapex: :xy/emolga:
Toxapex (Emolga) @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
- Nuzzle
My usual lead (or anti-lead, I guess?). It spreads Paralysis and Defogs entry hazards. 0 Speed IVs and Relaxed nature so it gets off a slow U-Turn even with Paralysis' speed drop/Motor Drive's speed boost.
:xy/cobalion: :xy/orbeetle:
Cobalion (Orbeetle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
After 1 Iron Defense, this thing takes even super-effective hits surprisingly well. Sticky Web is there to slow down mons that my Toxapex can't Paralyze (notably Zeraora and Jolteon). U-Turn to gain momentum vs Ghost types that come in expecting Body Press, the latter of which is very strong as mentioned earlier in this thread.
:xy/chandelure: :xy/mawile:
Chandelure (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Pretty straight-forward wallbreaker set. The three attacks have perfect neutral coverage, so I gave it Substitute to deal with status users and to ease prediction. I'm on the fence about switching to Timid, just so I can guarantee outspeeding Zeraora with webs on the opponent's side.
:xy/mandibuzz: :xy/wooper:
Mandibuzz (Wooper) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic
- Encore
My answer to set-up mons. Encore-lock them, Haze them, Toxic stall them, whatever it takes to not immediately lose to a Quiver Dancing Gengar or an Unburden+Swords Dance Gyarados. EV spread and Nature are just to have equal defenses.
:xy/zeraora::xy/conkeldurr:
Zeraora (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Thunder Punch
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
I think this is the next best thing to the Mawile-donor set (which I can't run due to donor clause) in terms of immediate power.
:xy/weavile: :xy/tsareena:
Weavile (Tsareena) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Axel
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Power Whip
My Triage counter and general physical hitter. Wide Lens for reliably hitting Triple Axels. Moveset is standard except for Power Whip in place of High Jump Kick, which I initially tried but found underwhelming (plus there are a bunch of Ghost types running around). Power Whip hits Rhyperior, Keldeo, Urshifu-Rapid, Primarina, etc. harder than your other moves.
:xy/toxapex: :xy/emolga:
Toxapex (Emolga) @ Leftovers
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
- Nuzzle
My usual lead (or anti-lead, I guess?). It spreads Paralysis and Defogs entry hazards. 0 Speed IVs and Relaxed nature so it gets off a slow U-Turn even with Paralysis' speed drop/Motor Drive's speed boost.
:xy/cobalion: :xy/orbeetle:
Cobalion (Orbeetle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
After 1 Iron Defense, this thing takes even super-effective hits surprisingly well. Sticky Web is there to slow down mons that my Toxapex can't Paralyze (notably Zeraora and Jolteon). U-Turn to gain momentum vs Ghost types that come in expecting Body Press, the latter of which is very strong as mentioned earlier in this thread.
:xy/chandelure: :xy/mawile:
Chandelure (Mawile) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Pretty straight-forward wallbreaker set. The three attacks have perfect neutral coverage, so I gave it Substitute to deal with status users and to ease prediction. I'm on the fence about switching to Timid, just so I can guarantee outspeeding Zeraora with webs on the opponent's side.
:xy/mandibuzz: :xy/wooper:
Mandibuzz (Wooper) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 232 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Recover
- Toxic
- Encore
My answer to set-up mons. Encore-lock them, Haze them, Toxic stall them, whatever it takes to not immediately lose to a Quiver Dancing Gengar or an Unburden+Swords Dance Gyarados. EV spread and Nature are just to have equal defenses.
:xy/zeraora::xy/conkeldurr:
Zeraora (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Thunder Punch
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
I think this is the next best thing to the Mawile-donor set (which I can't run due to donor clause) in terms of immediate power.
i've spent a lot of time just running various horseshit teams on the ladder and here are the only cool sets i made
Whimsicott (Primarina) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- U-turn
- Tailwind
- Switcheroo
- Moonblast
the speed control in this meta is obnoxious as fuck so it's actually fucking delicious to completely neuter a rampaging terrakion or togekiss or something. this is fire, don't sleep on it.
it's nice to run this set on a fairy-type because dark-types would otherwise shut it down but if your team needs this on like mandibuzz or whatever it works just fine. whimsicott has a great movepool so you can play around with it.
Dunsparce (Excadrill) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake
- Agility
the evs outspeed like scarf zam or something at +2 i don't remember. anyways it's not uncommon to run through offense teams with iron tail at +1 if they don't have some shit like corviknight. toxic immunity + 60% defense drop is also nice vs more passive teams. very fun set.
Weezing-Galar (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Specs / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Strange Steam
- Flamethrower
preys on teams that lean too hard on their flash fire user. think of it next time you're grinding your teeth vs ferropex. you have a lot of options w/ this one since galarian weezing has such a great movepool.
Slurpuff (Grimmsnarl) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Thief
- Drain Punch
this is weak to priority and hard to set up, but it has the power to gunch basically anything that doesn't have unaware.
Rhyperior (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
pincurchin inheritors hate her! local pony discovers one weird trick to
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- U-turn
- Tailwind
- Switcheroo
- Moonblast
the speed control in this meta is obnoxious as fuck so it's actually fucking delicious to completely neuter a rampaging terrakion or togekiss or something. this is fire, don't sleep on it.
it's nice to run this set on a fairy-type because dark-types would otherwise shut it down but if your team needs this on like mandibuzz or whatever it works just fine. whimsicott has a great movepool so you can play around with it.
Dunsparce (Excadrill) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 84 Def / 172 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Iron Tail
- Earthquake
- Agility
the evs outspeed like scarf zam or something at +2 i don't remember. anyways it's not uncommon to run through offense teams with iron tail at +1 if they don't have some shit like corviknight. toxic immunity + 60% defense drop is also nice vs more passive teams. very fun set.
Weezing-Galar (Rotom-Heat) @ Choice Specs / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Strange Steam
- Flamethrower
preys on teams that lean too hard on their flash fire user. think of it next time you're grinding your teeth vs ferropex. you have a lot of options w/ this one since galarian weezing has such a great movepool.
Slurpuff (Grimmsnarl) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Thief
- Drain Punch
this is weak to priority and hard to set up, but it has the power to gunch basically anything that doesn't have unaware.
Rhyperior (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
pincurchin inheritors hate her! local pony discovers one weird trick to
hot take:
Hatterene (Ferrothorn) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Power Whip
- Nuzzle
- Aromatherapy
-Thunder Wave Magic Powder
yep, hatt gets these. check for yourself. anyway, this might be the best thing i've come up with since strength sap shiinotic+malamar. hits hard and provides defensive utility at the same time. what could be better?
Hatterene (Ferrothorn) @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Power Whip
- Nuzzle
- Aromatherapy
-
yep, hatt gets these. check for yourself. anyway, this might be the best thing i've come up with since strength sap shiinotic+malamar. hits hard and provides defensive utility at the same time. what could be better?
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Why Thunder Wave and Nuzzle? Wouldn't something like Magic Powder and Nuzzle be better together?
Wasn't swift swim banned last gen? If it wasn't it should be now because swift swim keldeo is unstoppable
It was not banned. Also, wouldn’t Keldeo itself be banned if it’s broken unless the ability breaks multiple inheritors?
Are you allowed to run a Pokemon as both a donor and a team member?
Let's talk about this goddess:
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ice Beam
This thing will absolutely destroy specially oriented teams and it has the ability to wall a good physical hit or two if need be
Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Ice Beam
This thing will absolutely destroy specially oriented teams and it has the ability to wall a good physical hit or two if need be
I'm pretty sure I've seen teams that do that, so I'll say "yes"
this gotta be the worst team ive dropped but it works ok
Basically I got the idea from Chazm who was mentioning Regenerator mons like Keldeo and I originally meant for this team to be semistall, but I realized the value of stall that is highly resistant to chip so the team turned into this.
:mandibuzz::tangrowth:
Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Leech Seed
Mandibuzz is the primary Zarude check and secondary Alakazam check. Helmet chips Zarude more which I found more useful but if you want to better check Alakazam use HDB.
:goodra::slowking:
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Drain Punch / Iron Tail
- Scald / Iron Tail
- Earthquake
Blanket check to most special attackers. Drain Punch was mainly for Ferrothorn and Snorlax but you could probably use Iron Tail well to smack Togekiss and Hatterene.
:toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 9 Spe
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze
It's a Toxapex. Haze is super valuable to hinder Butterfree inheritors from making any progress; you eventually switch into Slowbro-Galar to Poison Jab the opponent to death. Speed is IVd to outspeed Conkeldurr/Marowak-Alola in TR.
:amoonguss::eldegoss:
Amoonguss @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Rapid Spin
- Aromatherapy
- Leech Seed / Stun Spore / Poison Powder / Pollen Puff
The spinner and cleric. HDB is really valuable when there's a spiker so you should probably keep that. Stun Spore and Poison Powder cripples Dragapult/Gengar while Pollen Puff smacks Zarude lol
:hippowdon::corsola:
Hippowdon @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Scald
Physical blanket check. Scald is incredible cause you burn Flying types on switchin, which really helps against the likes of Corviknight-Scizor.
:slowbro-galar::mienfoo:
Slowbro-Galar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- U-turn
Secondary special blanket check and primary check to Togekiss/Hatterene. I had Drapion here before but didn't like that Draining Kiss does a billion to it even at +1 (rip Muk-Alola).
yeah this is basically my way of calling for an ability clause, regen spam is kinda busted
Ayo, so I've been laddering a bit. Fair disclosure, I'm not good, so take this with an entire saltshaker, but I slapped this specific mon onto my team as anti-Alakazam tech and it's actually been pretty damn useful outside of it.
:xy/excadrill::xy/coalossal:
NEW META, SHOUT OUT DUN DEAL (Excadrill) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / High Horsepower
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Flare Blitz / Rock Slide / Stone Edge / filler, run Scald if you want lmao fuck it
Yes, you're seeing this correctly. Specially defensive Flash Fire Excadrill. The craziest part?
It makes for a decent spinner, too, and Excadrill still hits plenty hard even without a boosting item. Plus, the Vest lets you bluff Choice items fairly well.
You may want to run High Horsepower if you pair it with RillaZarude, but EQ is generally the better choice. I use Flare Blitz for that last slot, and Coalossal's physical coverage outside of Exca's STABs and its own is fairly limited. You can run Scald/Scorching Sands to fish for burns, but I advise against it.
Edit: After laddering a bit more, I gotta say, Excadrill has been putting in serious work. So many special attackers rely on Fire coverage to hit Steels (think your Sheer Forcers and all that), and having something that can lure them in and make short work of them is great. AV Excadrill has surprisingly solid bulk. Low key recommend it if you're looking for an Alakazam answer, a not-passive hazard remover, and a special Sheer Force blanket check all in one.
:xy/excadrill::xy/coalossal:
NEW META, SHOUT OUT DUN DEAL (Excadrill) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake / High Horsepower
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Flare Blitz / Rock Slide / Stone Edge / filler, run Scald if you want lmao fuck it
Yes, you're seeing this correctly. Specially defensive Flash Fire Excadrill. The craziest part?
It actually switches into Psysurge Alakazam reliably. Even Modest Specs variants fail to 3HKO 100% of the time. It does need Wish support to handle Specs multiple times in a match, and it's absolutely RUINED by Trick, but it reliably counters Psysurge Alakazam, as well as most special Unburden Slurpuff inheritors that might pair with it. (Watch out for Surf though!) Being 4x resistant to Stealth Rock helps a lot;calcs said:
It makes for a decent spinner, too, and Excadrill still hits plenty hard even without a boosting item. Plus, the Vest lets you bluff Choice items fairly well.
You may want to run High Horsepower if you pair it with RillaZarude, but EQ is generally the better choice. I use Flare Blitz for that last slot, and Coalossal's physical coverage outside of Exca's STABs and its own is fairly limited. You can run Scald/Scorching Sands to fish for burns, but I advise against it.
Edit: After laddering a bit more, I gotta say, Excadrill has been putting in serious work. So many special attackers rely on Fire coverage to hit Steels (think your Sheer Forcers and all that), and having something that can lure them in and make short work of them is great. AV Excadrill has surprisingly solid bulk. Low key recommend it if you're looking for an Alakazam answer, a not-passive hazard remover, and a special Sheer Force blanket check all in one.
Last edited:
Regen spam is busted. So is SF Zera, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Rain. Nobody atm seems concerned with making the game mode competitively balanced, so I would just recommend abusing those.
Anyway, here's one of my top teams:
https://pokepast.es/6ff1dc5fdfd23718
Agree with z on fur coat, zera and to some extent rain
While not having recovery certianly can be a problem, that doesnt stop fur coat inheritors from being a mayor nuisance. Apercian gives quite some utility options such as knock off, toxic, your pivoting move of choice with u turn and parting shot, foul play for obcenly strong attackers, roar for setup and subs, and even swicheroo and hymnosys if you are feeling crazy. Trying to hit it twice after it switches in means it gets to pivot out to something that can threaten you. Trying to setup will get you roared. Not even defensive mons are save due to knock and taunt. It also just so happens that the best special wall in the tier has a tremendous hp, making it a formidable partner and fixes its issue of not having recovery
Almost nothing relevant can wall SFLO Zeraora. FireBoltBeam is all fun and managable until it slots close combat. Now it can 2hko Snorlax. And goodra doesnt enjoy it either. When Zera enters the field, it feels like the world is your oyster, as in any normal team there is nothing that doesnt feel threatened by its coverage moves, if not outright ohko'd. Outspeeding it requieres either scarfs, speed boost, unburden or ninjask, the dedicated lead, so most offensive mons are out of the picture. Only two things that dont take 40% from any of its coverage moves that i can think of are flash fire Spdef Aegislash and physical heatom, and the latter can be thrashed with surf. EDIT: Just remembered it can also use throat chop/earthquake to hit the afromentioned set too. The cherry on top is that Zera can do much more aside from SHLO. Physical sets using mawile for thunder punch, or conkeldurr for guts boosted attacks, the classic pinchurin set with spikes and a obsenely powerful rising voltage, and lead sets too. But none of them can excert as much pressure as Tauros Zeraora. Dragapult might be able to have the meta on his palm too if a mixed set as good as Zera's is found, and i dont think it will take long for that.
It baffles me how weather avoided the nerfhammer while terrain got nerfed. While dealing with rain boosted attacks from one Pokemon is managable, having one rain setter+ 5 mons with swift swim turns the game into a waiting game until its your turn to play. Of course, Toxapex and goodra can do pretty well, but overwhelming them with whatever mon of your choice isnt impossible. Also bringing your own weather makes the machup 110 times easier, as with any free switchin you can thwart the pouring with nice clear skies, which will allow your team to dry up and get a breather, and make the opposing team's chances of 6-0ing you evaporate, as they are forced to stop their onslaught of hydro pumps to bring their rain setter again. Lastly, if rain is deemed in need of a nerf, I'd rather have it be a complex ban like in BW where swift swim+Drizzle is banned, but i doubt that the all-might smoogon policy allows it
Finally, I must argue against the ban of ice scales. Unlike Apercian, Frostmoth's movepool is severely lacking; its utility options being u turn, defog, and stun spore. Similarly, if used with a defensive purpose in mind you become forced to run quiver dance if you do not wish to be as passive as a taunted vanilla shuckle. This lead us to the issues, say, a kyurem, would run into if it tries to use ice scales as a way to set up quiver dances. The second the iron men enter the battlefield any quiver dancing frostmoth inheritor becomes nullified, as the only way for frostmoth to hit steels even neutrally is with a weather ball under sun or rain. And if any steel type with some sort of special bulk can wall it, then they can also use their STABbing moves to reduce these inheritors to rubble. The walls of Iron arent the only ones on their way, common pokemon such as Toxapex, Snorlax, and even AV Goodra can stand on the way of their freezing assaults and do of them whatever they want
Also the real thing holding back regen spam is that there's only one guy who had the time and pacience nessesary to switch around a lot and chip pokemons for 50+ turns. Add 2 Ability clause.
While not having recovery certianly can be a problem, that doesnt stop fur coat inheritors from being a mayor nuisance. Apercian gives quite some utility options such as knock off, toxic, your pivoting move of choice with u turn and parting shot, foul play for obcenly strong attackers, roar for setup and subs, and even swicheroo and hymnosys if you are feeling crazy. Trying to hit it twice after it switches in means it gets to pivot out to something that can threaten you. Trying to setup will get you roared. Not even defensive mons are save due to knock and taunt. It also just so happens that the best special wall in the tier has a tremendous hp, making it a formidable partner and fixes its issue of not having recovery
Almost nothing relevant can wall SFLO Zeraora. FireBoltBeam is all fun and managable until it slots close combat. Now it can 2hko Snorlax. And goodra doesnt enjoy it either. When Zera enters the field, it feels like the world is your oyster, as in any normal team there is nothing that doesnt feel threatened by its coverage moves, if not outright ohko'd. Outspeeding it requieres either scarfs, speed boost, unburden or ninjask, the dedicated lead, so most offensive mons are out of the picture. Only two things that dont take 40% from any of its coverage moves that i can think of are flash fire Spdef Aegislash and physical heatom, and the latter can be thrashed with surf. EDIT: Just remembered it can also use throat chop/earthquake to hit the afromentioned set too. The cherry on top is that Zera can do much more aside from SHLO. Physical sets using mawile for thunder punch, or conkeldurr for guts boosted attacks, the classic pinchurin set with spikes and a obsenely powerful rising voltage, and lead sets too. But none of them can excert as much pressure as Tauros Zeraora. Dragapult might be able to have the meta on his palm too if a mixed set as good as Zera's is found, and i dont think it will take long for that.
It baffles me how weather avoided the nerfhammer while terrain got nerfed. While dealing with rain boosted attacks from one Pokemon is managable, having one rain setter+ 5 mons with swift swim turns the game into a waiting game until its your turn to play. Of course, Toxapex and goodra can do pretty well, but overwhelming them with whatever mon of your choice isnt impossible. Also bringing your own weather makes the machup 110 times easier, as with any free switchin you can thwart the pouring with nice clear skies, which will allow your team to dry up and get a breather, and make the opposing team's chances of 6-0ing you evaporate, as they are forced to stop their onslaught of hydro pumps to bring their rain setter again. Lastly, if rain is deemed in need of a nerf, I'd rather have it be a complex ban like in BW where swift swim+Drizzle is banned, but i doubt that the all-might smoogon policy allows it
Finally, I must argue against the ban of ice scales. Unlike Apercian, Frostmoth's movepool is severely lacking; its utility options being u turn, defog, and stun spore. Similarly, if used with a defensive purpose in mind you become forced to run quiver dance if you do not wish to be as passive as a taunted vanilla shuckle. This lead us to the issues, say, a kyurem, would run into if it tries to use ice scales as a way to set up quiver dances. The second the iron men enter the battlefield any quiver dancing frostmoth inheritor becomes nullified, as the only way for frostmoth to hit steels even neutrally is with a weather ball under sun or rain. And if any steel type with some sort of special bulk can wall it, then they can also use their STABbing moves to reduce these inheritors to rubble. The walls of Iron arent the only ones on their way, common pokemon such as Toxapex, Snorlax, and even AV Goodra can stand on the way of their freezing assaults and do of them whatever they want
Also the real thing holding back regen spam is that there's only one guy who had the time and pacience nessesary to switch around a lot and chip pokemons for 50+ turns. Add 2 Ability clause.
There are more things that can comfortably check mixed Tauros Zera in particular. I don't think it's busted solely because it has no meta counters. I think it's also busted because the lack of team diversity that naturally comes with a small OM. Lots of balance teams run something along the lines of Snorlax+Pex+Steel, which Zera destroys because it's ability to be mixed. This makes Zera come off a lot more powerful, especially since you might lose to the same set on ladder 2-3 times in one run.
I don't really want stuff banned I just want players to use more fun things to counter top threats. The best way to beat Zera is build a good supportive team around a check, but if your team is still weak here are a couple fun safe checks you can plug in most teams (:
- Gastrodon
- Lighting Rod Mantine/Toxapex
- Ice Scales Weezing Galar
- Sand Stream Shuckle
- Magic Guard Sylveon
- Prankster Aegislash
- MB Corsola-Galar
- Fur Coat Type:Null
- Regen AV Seismitoad
Having issues with the validator again. These two sets are coming out as illegal, even on Clef itself.
Pretty sure the base Clef set is valid and should be inheriting onto Mandibuzz w/o any issues. Would appreciate someone taking a look into this
Clefable (Mandibuzz) @ Mental Herb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
Clefable
Ability: Magic Guard
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
Clefable
Ability: Magic Guard
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
Pretty sure the base Clef set is valid and should be inheriting onto Mandibuzz w/o any issues. Would appreciate someone taking a look into this
You can't have a Clefable know Knock Off and Teleport with a normal ability, has to be Unaware.
Clefable gets Knock Off from Gen 7 move tutors.
Clefable gets Teleport from either Gen 1 VC or LGPE.
If it comes from VC, it can't have Magic Guard because they all have Hidden Abilities.
It it comes from LGPE, there's no way for it to have Knock Off since Clefable can't get it anywhere in Gen 8.
Clefable gets Teleport from either Gen 1 VC or LGPE.
If it comes from VC, it can't have Magic Guard because they all have Hidden Abilities.
It it comes from LGPE, there's no way for it to have Knock Off since Clefable can't get it anywhere in Gen 8.
Also unrelated, I'm cooking up a pretty big post about donors but it's still in the works so hopefully some other people post before me so I don't end up double posting.
Cool set
Ninetales (Chandelure) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
Substitute is a kinda funny move because some teams just cant break a sub without something getting hit hard/dying. Nasty plot is to fully captalize on teams that struggle with subs, and stabs are all that this set needs. No boots for this set, as without lefties it wont be able to set more than 4 subs over the course of the game. 32 hp evs are to stop pex from breaking subs with scald under the sun. While drought might seem counterintuitive for a set that usually tries to stay for very long, the inmediate power of sun boosted flamthrowers are always good and it allows it to bluff a specs set when it first enters the battlefield. If you wish so, you can instead inherit from slowbro to get that sweet regenerator or from zoroark to bluff harder on the first switch, as sub is one of universally known moves. As with any sub mon, it is important to snach KO's with a sub, as this will allow you to keep damaging mons after the ko.
This mon has a problem where it is really good on some machups, and on others is completely useless. Certian balance and stall teams have issues with it due to the afromentioned trouble with breaking subs meaning it just ko's or damages something hard each time it enters the field, trick room teams can be a treat as its speed isnt an issue without TR on, and having a sun mon to replace rain is a game changer on that machum. Similarly, many hyper offense teams eat it alive as everything outspeeds it and threatens to OKHO it, meaning that at best you can bluff a scarf on a switch. Overall fun, but unreliable set.
Ninetales (Chandelure) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 32 HP / 224 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
Substitute is a kinda funny move because some teams just cant break a sub without something getting hit hard/dying. Nasty plot is to fully captalize on teams that struggle with subs, and stabs are all that this set needs. No boots for this set, as without lefties it wont be able to set more than 4 subs over the course of the game. 32 hp evs are to stop pex from breaking subs with scald under the sun. While drought might seem counterintuitive for a set that usually tries to stay for very long, the inmediate power of sun boosted flamthrowers are always good and it allows it to bluff a specs set when it first enters the battlefield. If you wish so, you can instead inherit from slowbro to get that sweet regenerator or from zoroark to bluff harder on the first switch, as sub is one of universally known moves. As with any sub mon, it is important to snach KO's with a sub, as this will allow you to keep damaging mons after the ko.
This mon has a problem where it is really good on some machups, and on others is completely useless. Certian balance and stall teams have issues with it due to the afromentioned trouble with breaking subs meaning it just ko's or damages something hard each time it enters the field, trick room teams can be a treat as its speed isnt an issue without TR on, and having a sun mon to replace rain is a game changer on that machum. Similarly, many hyper offense teams eat it alive as everything outspeeds it and threatens to OKHO it, meaning that at best you can bluff a scarf on a switch. Overall fun, but unreliable set.
Minor point of order: Dusclops is very slightly bulkier than Galarian Corsola, and its lower HP & Speed stats are helpful for optimizing Leech Seed damage and slow Teleports.
Just so this isn't a one-liner, here's a set.
Lycanroc (Heracross/Terrakion/Urshifu-Rapid-Strike/Gallade) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Swords Dance
This takes great advantage of people using things like Aegislash, Toxapex, and Slowbro as their Fighting-type checks. +2 Adamant LO Crunch/PFangs off a sufficiently strong Fighting-type is great at busting open a lot of the defensive cores people are using right now, and with an active Sand Rush, checking it offensively is also rough.
The actual Fighting-type you choose depends on what you're willing to compromise -- the ones with the best stats (Terrakion and Urshifu) are really weak to Grassy Glide, and Terrakion makes it hard to run a Rock-type sand setter. Heracross resists Grass, but it's also Rocks-neutral, and at low HP after a CC it can still be revenge killed by banded Zarude. Gallade has STAB on Psychic Fangs, but it's a lot weaker to stray Foul Plays, Knock Offs, and U-Turns. You get the picture.
Why is Moxie allowed but Soul-Heart isn't?
Soul Heart ends up not being allowed technically, as a result of the only donor in Magearna being baned to ubers already.
Hey everybody, I wanna share three of my favorite mon's this meta. I hope you consider using them 'cause they're really fun to use.
:sm/heracross: <== :sm/tsareena:
Tsareena (Heracross) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
:sm/Primarina: <== :sm/Clefable:
Clefable (Primarina) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- Heal Bell
:sm/silvally-steel: <== :sm/sableye:
Sableye (Silvally-Steel) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Def
Calm Nature
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Metal Burst
:sm/heracross: <== :sm/tsareena:
Tsareena (Heracross) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off
U-turn is what Hera always needed. Good lead and endgame sweeper. Can switch in pretty good to Zarude. Outspeeds Zeraora, U-turn does 40-45%. U-turn also OHKOEs Zam and Espeon. Queenly Majesty is amazing against Lycanroc inheritors. I used to run Intimidate (as Incineroar with Close Combat), but I needed to stop priority. Can also switch into Excadrill's Earthquakes.
Heracross POWER: Turns 1, 7-9 out of 9.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1190957417-ahvflst72r4d07j9oy7fj4tfz5j61vapw
Heracross MOMENTUM: Turns 1-11 out of 19.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1190726046
Heracross POWER: Turns 1, 7-9 out of 9.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1190957417-ahvflst72r4d07j9oy7fj4tfz5j61vapw
Heracross MOMENTUM: Turns 1-11 out of 19.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1190726046
:sm/Primarina: <== :sm/Clefable:
Clefable (Primarina) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Def / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- Heal Bell
Urshifu's Close Combat does more than 50%, which leads opponents to stay and think that a second Close Combat will KO. However, nobody expects Primarina to outspeed and KO back with a Moonblast. Has enough speed to outrun Keldeo, Terrak, and other base 108 speed mons. However, in a dual role, Prima also Trick Scarfs to neuter walls (Pex, Lax) and Setup sweepers (Kyurem, Togekiss). SR and Heal Bell for team support. Also lives Zam's Expanding Force, and slaps back with a Moonblast pretty nicely.
- 252 SpA Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 231-273 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Prima's "EVILNESS": Turns 2, 6-7, 11-21
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1185131286
- 252 SpA Alakazam Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Primarina in Psychic Terrain: 231-273 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 130-154 (51.7 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Prima's "EVILNESS": Turns 2, 6-7, 11-21
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1185131286
:sm/silvally-steel: <== :sm/sableye:
Sableye (Silvally-Steel) @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Def
Calm Nature
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Metal Burst
Because this meta totally calls for it: my second speed control mon, which also uses Trick, but this time with Lagging Tail. Neuters setup sweepers, and can add insult to injury the turn after with Will-O-Wisp. Can also lead with Taunt to prevent SR and Spikes. With suprising bulk, it prevents being total Dark fodder with Metal Burst. Surprisingly, Lagging Tail works perfectly here; going always last allows Metal Burst to be a true fusion of Counter+Mirror Coat.
Silvally PLAYS: Turns 1-5 out of 26 (Also the reason why Primarina has SR instead of Wish at the clutch ending)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1191957074-dfbwkhq0si7w6iwczvsitpeg9pl9vzjpw
Silvally PLAYS: Turns 1-5 out of 26 (Also the reason why Primarina has SR instead of Wish at the clutch ending)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8inheritance-1191957074-dfbwkhq0si7w6iwczvsitpeg9pl9vzjpw
Some sets I've found decent -
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
My bet for one of the best Fur Coat users. Although typically envisaged as a special wall Umbreon has Slowobro-tier phys def, but the crux of the set is that STAB Foul Play is dummy strong. It's a strong basic attack vs basically every phys attacker and heavily punishes set up attempts. Combined with Parting Shot it makes RestTalk much more difficult to punish.
Terrakion @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Superpower
Weird one but really effective. A mon that can stomach strong special hits from the likes of Sheer Force Gengar and Zeraora and Adaptability Dragapult, all while setting up rocks and still being potent offensively.
Salazzle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Roost
Flash Fire is pretty common which dampens the effectiveness of this set, but it has just the right combination of STAB power, special attack and speed for a tinted lens user - Heat Wave is 1hkoing most common offensive mons after rocks while also outspeeding most of the tier. I tried a bunch of fairies for specs Moonblast spam, but they're either too slow to really take advantage of how spammable STAB becomes with tinted lens or just a little too weak to nab 1hkos. Everything but Heat Wave is filler cuz like, that's the only move you need really.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Foul Play
- Parting Shot
My bet for one of the best Fur Coat users. Although typically envisaged as a special wall Umbreon has Slowobro-tier phys def, but the crux of the set is that STAB Foul Play is dummy strong. It's a strong basic attack vs basically every phys attacker and heavily punishes set up attempts. Combined with Parting Shot it makes RestTalk much more difficult to punish.
Terrakion @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Slack Off
- Superpower
Weird one but really effective. A mon that can stomach strong special hits from the likes of Sheer Force Gengar and Zeraora and Adaptability Dragapult, all while setting up rocks and still being potent offensively.
Salazzle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Roost
Flash Fire is pretty common which dampens the effectiveness of this set, but it has just the right combination of STAB power, special attack and speed for a tinted lens user - Heat Wave is 1hkoing most common offensive mons after rocks while also outspeeding most of the tier. I tried a bunch of fairies for specs Moonblast spam, but they're either too slow to really take advantage of how spammable STAB becomes with tinted lens or just a little too weak to nab 1hkos. Everything but Heat Wave is filler cuz like, that's the only move you need really.
hey drampa's grandpa I figured you might want some help with that donor's list (sorry I didn't do common inheritors, but at least this can be a start) I haven't done all of them yet, but I got through "E" so hopefully this can be a resource for others building! I'll be continuing this throughout the next couple of weeks but I at least wanted to get what I have out
:alakazam::amoonguss::barraskewda::barbaracle::basculin::beartic::bellossom::cinccino::clawitzer::comfey::crawdaunt::dhelmise::dragalge::druddigon::emolga::excadrill::exploud:
:alakazam::amoonguss::barraskewda::barbaracle::basculin::beartic::bellossom::cinccino::clawitzer::comfey::crawdaunt::dhelmise::dragalge::druddigon::emolga::excadrill::exploud:
Two additions/corrections to a few of your list's
Barbaracle: You forgot about its main gimmick: Crit Sirfetch, which utilises leek's extra crit chance+ cross chop increased critical hit chance+ sniper to be near unwallable and 2hko even the bulkiests mons.
Basculin: unless you are using double edge/head smash as coverage, reckless is outclassed as the boost it gives (x1.2) is lower than the one from adapt (x1.33)