There was a lot of bad stuff being used the first few days of XY OU, so let's give the ladder some time to settle before making judgments on the quality of the ladder. People will eventually learn that isn't just Gen 5.5. Weather is not permanent and if your weather starter gets hit with the popular Knock Off, your turns to abuse that weather are very limited. If you want to do weather in this meta, you have to think harder than just slapping Politoed, Kingdra, Kabutops, Torn-T, and Ferrothorn on your team and calling it a day.
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Introducing the OU (no Mega) Ladder
- Thread starter ryan
- Start date
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Don't look too much into this. I honestly doubt that there's some kind of anti-Mega conspiracy going on just because some of the OU leaders wanted Mega Metagross gone lol. This is just an experimental "what-if" ladder to see what 6th Gen OU would be like without Mega evolutions, one of the biggest changes that XY brought to the competitive Pokemon landscape. We did similar things back in BW; we opened up the Dream World ladder to see what it would be like if we opened up the floodgates of Hidden Abilities, we held a Clear Skies ladder to observe the BW OU metagame without the permanent weather that defined it, and we even tried a Stealth Rock-free ladder near the latter months of BW to see what OU would be like without arguably the most influential move in the game. None of these ladders affected the official OU environment, just like this non-Mega ladder will have no impact on the official metagame. It's just for curiosity's sake.
Whats the point of testing things if there is no initial intention of subsequent implementation? I doubt people would waste their time devising a test for a ladder that doesn't have the potential to someday become more standard than "experimental".
Because it can be fun, and we are creatures of curiosity who wish to see what could be 'interesting'. If everything had a grand purpose behind it, Other Metagames as a concept wouldn't exist, and there's no plan to make any of those official. Some people wondered what this metagame would be like, clearly people are having fun with it by some of the responses here, so there's no harm whatsoever in having it.
Quite honestly, because a lot of people find this kind of thing fun, whether it be the change of pace from the normal OU ladder, the opportunity to learn something new about the current metagame, or the fact that they simply prefer a metagame without Megas. We've done this sort of experimental thing before, as was the case with the test ladders I mentioned earlier. In fact, the entire reason that we have CAP projects is to have fun and learn more about the OU metagame. Just because you don't think a non-Mega ladder is fun doesn't mean that no one else does, and I honestly wouldn't fret about this affecting the official OU metagame until the OU staff actually starts suggesting such a thing (which is really unlikely). As it is now, the OP clearly states that this metagame will not replace the current one, so just enjoy this new ladder if you want to or ignore it if you don't.
haunter
Banned deucer.
This is extremely ignorant and borderline inflammatory. If we (and by "we", I mean what you call "the administration") wanted to decide tiers on our own, we could abolish Suspect Tests completely and only do quickbans or just handpick the voting pool.
To further prove that your point is invalid: you might have noticed that we didn't just ban the controversial megastones (Metagrossite, Sableyeite, Diancite etc.), we banned EVERY mega stone in order to test a different metagame and evaluate the effects of mega Pokémon on our standard OU one. Furthermore, I've explicitly stated that the OU (no Mega) ladder is not going to replace our Standard OU metagame, therefore I'm really not sure what makes you think that we're soft banning Mega-Metagross or any other Pokémon.
This thread is meant to discuss the OU (no Mega) ladder so, please, just stick to this topic. I'm going to infract uninformed and off-tiopic posts from now on.
Lucario @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Iron Tail
It hurts not having the 4x resistance to dark anymore, put Lucario can switch in on knock offs and basically get a free choice band boost while still being able to switch moves. Without many of the bulkier megas and presence of HO on the ladder, this set is excellent at revenge killing weakened and generally frail teams after a knock off boost as well as many other traits that I will probably elaborate on later.
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Alright, can you all remove your tin foil helmets for a second? Can we stop with the underlying truth bull?
This is something many people have been asking for for quite sometime. Megas, upon release, tilted the game in a very unsettling way. Many would say they ruined the competitive aspect of the game, making a lot of the game match up reliant. While yes, some became amazing, some became WAY too much for the OU metagame, and in all honesty, it's become difficult to determine what constitutes as OP anymore when damn near everything can be classified as "OP". So, an extremely logical approach to this would be, wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. You can think this is some secret society bullshit, but it's not, it's simple, and expressed in the OP. Perhaps the timing is a bit of a "suspicious" time-frame, but don't you think this would be a bit too much of a complex way of going about banning things? This ladder is here to have a less match up reliant, and more competitive ladder. You want to use your sweet precious Mega Metagross, there's a ladder for you. Do you never want to deal with Mega Lopunny ever again? There's also a ladder for you.
So let's stop with this ulterior motive shit and talk about the horrors that lie in this metagame, such as clicking Knock off with absolutely no repercussions.
This is something many people have been asking for for quite sometime. Megas, upon release, tilted the game in a very unsettling way. Many would say they ruined the competitive aspect of the game, making a lot of the game match up reliant. While yes, some became amazing, some became WAY too much for the OU metagame, and in all honesty, it's become difficult to determine what constitutes as OP anymore when damn near everything can be classified as "OP". So, an extremely logical approach to this would be, wipe the slate clean and start from scratch. You can think this is some secret society bullshit, but it's not, it's simple, and expressed in the OP. Perhaps the timing is a bit of a "suspicious" time-frame, but don't you think this would be a bit too much of a complex way of going about banning things? This ladder is here to have a less match up reliant, and more competitive ladder. You want to use your sweet precious Mega Metagross, there's a ladder for you. Do you never want to deal with Mega Lopunny ever again? There's also a ladder for you.
So let's stop with this ulterior motive shit and talk about the horrors that lie in this metagame, such as clicking Knock off with absolutely no repercussions.
I honestly don't care about the conspiracy theories or secret agendas or any of that bullshit, I just want to keep Megas out of the meta that's meant to keep Megas out for a change of pace.
I'm even kinda hoping this would be a permanent sidelines meta or whatever, with SPL tournaments and shit, if it ever becomes popular enough. It'd be cool to see just how different this gets from standard OU if it's given enough time to develop.
I'm even kinda hoping this would be a permanent sidelines meta or whatever, with SPL tournaments and shit, if it ever becomes popular enough. It'd be cool to see just how different this gets from standard OU if it's given enough time to develop.
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Honestly I think the best way to deal with Knock Off spam is probably to use iron barbs/rough skin/rocky helmet as well as justified users and aside from that, clicking knock off has no negative repercussions and really should be suspected in this format in my opinion.
Disaster Area
formerly Piexplode
I'd probably give it at least a few weeks before we call for any sort of suspect of anything. I've not seen many recognised OU players posting in here, and from what I've heard in this thread they're not on the ladder much yet either.
That's true, I've just seen that knock off is extremely OP in my testing of the strategy.
I've gotten to #8 so far on the (albeit smallish) No Mega ladder so far and without many Magic Bouncers around, I think Sticky Web has a place in this metagame. My Sticky Web team has gotten me most of the wins on this ladder and it has a pretty nice core that I'd like to share.
Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Low Kick
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Seed Bomb
While Shuckle has probably also improved drastically with the removal of Mega Diancie, Sableye and Absol from the picture, I personally prefer using Galvantula because of its offensive presence. Taunting it is usually a dangerous decision and it threatens every Spinner aside from Excadrill. It can also beat some leads like Garchomp, Aerodactyl and even Azelf under some circumstances.
Since Galv struggles with Excadrill, I figured that Gourgeist should be the spinblocker of choice since it pretty much shuts Excadrill down. It performs admirably against most physical attackers, especially setup sweepers. It is a tad passive and is dead weight against Stall most of the time, but Will-o-Wisp and Foul Play generally do enough for it to be somewhat threatening.
Bisharp, of course, is the anti-Defog of the team. It is probably the most threatening Pokemon in this metagame since Knock Off affects everything and it is a terrifying sweeper if it gets to +2. Bisharp, ironically, is also my check for opposing Bisharps since it will outspeed and K.O. a -1 Bisharp with Low Kick.
The general setup afterwards is Spin and Rocks support on top of a sweeper. I used Mamoswine, offensive Starmie and Dragon Dance Tyrantrum for these roles most of the time.
Sticky Web still has a lot of threats lying around though. Defoggers, namely the Latis, Zapdos, Empoleon and Mandibuzz are still generally effective against Sticky Web since they aren't affected by the speed drop (except for Empoleon) and all have some way of threatening Bisharp (except for Latias). Flying types and Levitating Pokemon in general troublesome since they are so rampant in OU. Serperior is also a huge, new threat to Sticky Web now in OU. I had to make sure that either Mamo and Bisharp were both still alive or that Galvantula still had its Sash active during these battles.
Replays:
Dealing with Serp: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218227865
Close battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218445479
Gourgeist stops a sweep and spinblocks: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218447014
I don't know what to think of the ladder itself quite yet, as I wasn't having much fun until I tried out this Sticky Web team. It seems mostly the same, but Sand seems more prominent and a few people seem pretty set on using some Pokemon that lost their Megas. I hope that the ladder stays for a while and develops.
Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Low Kick
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Seed Bomb
While Shuckle has probably also improved drastically with the removal of Mega Diancie, Sableye and Absol from the picture, I personally prefer using Galvantula because of its offensive presence. Taunting it is usually a dangerous decision and it threatens every Spinner aside from Excadrill. It can also beat some leads like Garchomp, Aerodactyl and even Azelf under some circumstances.
Since Galv struggles with Excadrill, I figured that Gourgeist should be the spinblocker of choice since it pretty much shuts Excadrill down. It performs admirably against most physical attackers, especially setup sweepers. It is a tad passive and is dead weight against Stall most of the time, but Will-o-Wisp and Foul Play generally do enough for it to be somewhat threatening.
Bisharp, of course, is the anti-Defog of the team. It is probably the most threatening Pokemon in this metagame since Knock Off affects everything and it is a terrifying sweeper if it gets to +2. Bisharp, ironically, is also my check for opposing Bisharps since it will outspeed and K.O. a -1 Bisharp with Low Kick.
The general setup afterwards is Spin and Rocks support on top of a sweeper. I used Mamoswine, offensive Starmie and Dragon Dance Tyrantrum for these roles most of the time.
Sticky Web still has a lot of threats lying around though. Defoggers, namely the Latis, Zapdos, Empoleon and Mandibuzz are still generally effective against Sticky Web since they aren't affected by the speed drop (except for Empoleon) and all have some way of threatening Bisharp (except for Latias). Flying types and Levitating Pokemon in general troublesome since they are so rampant in OU. Serperior is also a huge, new threat to Sticky Web now in OU. I had to make sure that either Mamo and Bisharp were both still alive or that Galvantula still had its Sash active during these battles.
Replays:
Dealing with Serp: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218227865
Close battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218445479
Gourgeist stops a sweep and spinblocks: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218447014
I don't know what to think of the ladder itself quite yet, as I wasn't having much fun until I tried out this Sticky Web team. It seems mostly the same, but Sand seems more prominent and a few people seem pretty set on using some Pokemon that lost their Megas. I hope that the ladder stays for a while and develops.
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The core seems pretty cool, but there's no need to mention Mega Metagross being countered by Gourgeist in this tier, because it doesn't exist. Also, how did DD Tyrantrum fare in this meta? Was it carrying its weight, or was it underwhelming?I've gotten to #8 so far on the (albeit smallish) No Mega ladder so far and without many Magic Bouncers around, I think Sticky Web has a place in this metagame. My Sticky Web team has gotten me most of the wins on this ladder and it has a pretty nice core that I'd like to share.
Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Low Kick
Gourgeist-Super @ Leftovers
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Synthesis
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Seed Bomb
While Shuckle has probably also improved drastically with the removal of Mega Diancie, Sableye and Absol from the picture, I personally prefer using Galvantula because of its offensive presence. Taunting it is usually a dangerous decision and it threatens every Spinner aside from Excadrill. It can also beat some leads like Garchomp, Aerodactyl and even Azelf under some circumstances.
Since Galv struggles with Excadrill, I figured that Gourgeist should be the spinblocker of choice since it pretty much shuts Excadrill down. It is also a full counter to Mega Metagross and performs admirably against most physical attackers (especially setup sweepers). It is a tad passive and is dead weight against Stall most of the time, but Will-o-Wisp and Foul Play generally do enough for it to be somewhat threatening.
Bisharp, of course, is the anti-Defog of the team. It is probably the most threatening Pokemon in this metagame since Knock Off affects everything and it is a terrifying sweeper if it gets to +2. Bisharp, ironically, is also my check for opposing Bisharps since it will outspeed and K.O. a -1 Bisharp with Low Kick.
The general setup afterwards is Spin and Rocks support on top of a sweeper. I used Mamoswine, offensive Starmie and Dragon Dance Tyrantrum for these roles most of the time.
Sticky Web still has a lot of threats lying around though. Defoggers, namely the Latis, Zapdos, Empoleon and Mandibuzz are still generally effective against Sticky Web since they aren't affected by the speed drop (except for Empoleon) and all have some way of threatening Bisharp (except for Latias). Flying types and Levitating Pokemon in general troublesome since they are so rampant in OU. Serperior is also a huge, new threat to Sticky Web now in OU. I had to make sure that either Mamo and Bisharp were both still alive or that Galvantula still had its Sash active during these battles.
Replays:
Dealing with Serp: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218227865
Close battle: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218445479
Gourgeist stops a sweep and spinblocks: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218447014
I don't know what to think of the ladder itself quite yet, as I wasn't having much fun until I tried out this Sticky Web team. It seems mostly the same, but Sand seems more prominent and a few people seem pretty set on using some Pokemon that lost their Megas. I hope that the ladder stays for a while and develops.
Tyrantrum was doing pretty well from my experience. If it didn't sweep, it at least did some wallbreaking. I did make the change from Adamant to Jolly, however since the speed sometimes isn't enough with the former.
Tyrantrum @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Head Smash
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang
a really funny tier. the fact that my usual OU teams (and i got to 1700+ on XY, now i do not ladder anymore, it's too full of crap teams that areso easy to smash to bits it's even boring) do not carry megas means they easily dominate that metagame
LOL this paranoid conspiracy stuff needs to stop.
Why must there be some kind of "hidden agenda" / "end game" / "long-term goal"?
At the moment I just see it as a fun new ladder, and in a sense a glorified Other Metagame - indeed, wasn't there a mega-less idea in the OM forum?
Whether this will become a separate tier with its own bans and side projects (viability rankings, good cores etc.) is just too remote at this stage.
Though if I may say so, I am rather against the reintroduce weaker megas idea, as this contradicts the spirit and flavour of this new ladder.
Edit: adding points that actually relate to the ladder.
As many have pointed out, Knock Off is now a universal spammable move. Are there any mons/strategies that punish or at least alleviate it? The only things I can think of at the moment are Justified mons and Weakness Policy (which activates upon Knock Off iirc).
Why must there be some kind of "hidden agenda" / "end game" / "long-term goal"?
At the moment I just see it as a fun new ladder, and in a sense a glorified Other Metagame - indeed, wasn't there a mega-less idea in the OM forum?
Whether this will become a separate tier with its own bans and side projects (viability rankings, good cores etc.) is just too remote at this stage.
Though if I may say so, I am rather against the reintroduce weaker megas idea, as this contradicts the spirit and flavour of this new ladder.
Edit: adding points that actually relate to the ladder.
As many have pointed out, Knock Off is now a universal spammable move. Are there any mons/strategies that punish or at least alleviate it? The only things I can think of at the moment are Justified mons and Weakness Policy (which activates upon Knock Off iirc).
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My best answer to knock off
Lucario @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Iron Tail
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Iron Tail
So this doesn't get deleted for being an empty post, Chesnaught (especially with Synthesis), Conk, Hawlucha, defensive Infernape, Cobalion, PDef Gliscor, Toxic Orb Breloom, Clefable, and Azumarill all work depending on the prominent Knock Off user your concerned about. The Knock Off issue is a little bit overblown imo because some of the best Knock Off users were Megas (Gallade, Scizor, I guess Absol and a few others I'm forgetting). I have seen a lot of Conkeldurr on the ladder so far so it seems like people are adapting. You had to have a Bisharp check even with Megas around, and most of those are applicable here in some capacity (ex Keldeo, Ches, Cobalion).
As far as Justified mons go, the OU viable ones are Lucario, Terrakion, Cobalion (some niche as volt switch SR setter I heard?), Keldeo (lol mixed Keldeo any takers?)
Toxic Orb Breloom I can also agree once you have got the toxic status.
As for other bulky Fighting / Fairy mons I still see them as fairly passive answers - even though you take little damage you are still losing your precious item and can't say you have "punished" the opponent in any way. Plus depending on the match up you may not be able to switch in / force your opponent out, because Knock Off users are not necessarily Dark types themselves.
I appreciate the point that some best Knock Off users which are Megas are now gone.
To facilitate discussion, here is a (incomplete) list of OU viable mons that are known to run Knock Off:
Bisharp, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt (seeing it's been mentioned several times in this thread), Diggersby, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Landorus, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mew, Scizor, Toxicroak, Weavile
The above list excludes OU mons that can learn the move but obviously have no business using the move such as Alakazam
Feel free to point out any missed Pokes
P.S. compiling this list makes me realise what mons can NOT learn Knock Off - Excadrill, Tyranitar etc. Thank Arceus.
Toxic Orb Breloom I can also agree once you have got the toxic status.
As for other bulky Fighting / Fairy mons I still see them as fairly passive answers - even though you take little damage you are still losing your precious item and can't say you have "punished" the opponent in any way. Plus depending on the match up you may not be able to switch in / force your opponent out, because Knock Off users are not necessarily Dark types themselves.
I appreciate the point that some best Knock Off users which are Megas are now gone.
To facilitate discussion, here is a (incomplete) list of OU viable mons that are known to run Knock Off:
Bisharp, Conkeldurr, Crawdaunt (seeing it's been mentioned several times in this thread), Diggersby, Ferrothorn, Gliscor, Landorus, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, Mew, Scizor, Toxicroak, Weavile
The above list excludes OU mons that can learn the move but obviously have no business using the move such as Alakazam
Feel free to point out any missed Pokes
P.S. compiling this list makes me realise what mons can NOT learn Knock Off - Excadrill, Tyranitar etc. Thank Arceus.
Zam actually can use Knock Off because its coverage often forces teams to go to Chansey, making it a great lure. You actually can push KO users by running Rocky Helmet > Lefties on stuff like Ches. I believe they take damage first. Small punishment but it's better than nothing. Also helps punish U-Turners like Landorus-T.
So I made a team and I figured I'd share it with you all it's a really good team
No but for real
Basically you set up sticky web and hit knock off
Zoroark is useful because it has illusion so the enemy will think you're not a dark type and won't click U-Turn or a Fighting move
Krookodile is the only scarfed Pokemon (besides Shuckle) because it gets Moxie and doesn't need the power either way because Knock Off
Shuckle has Knock Off, Black Glasses and Adamant nature because every other move is shit and once it sets up webs and maybe rocks it's pretty much useless so might as well get some knock offs goin
And except for on Shuckle the only useful move is Knock Off so I just filled the rest of the slots with shit filler moves because Knock Off is the only move you need
Krookodile is basically the set up sweeper
Bisharp @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Rock Polish
- Scratch
Shuckle @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Switcheroo
- Giga Impact
- Trump Card
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind
- Hyper Beam
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Giga Impact
- Spite
- Snarl
Zoroark @ Choice Band
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Imprison
- Attract
Zoroark is useful because it has illusion so the enemy will think you're not a dark type and won't click U-Turn or a Fighting move
Krookodile is the only scarfed Pokemon (besides Shuckle) because it gets Moxie and doesn't need the power either way because Knock Off
Shuckle has Knock Off, Black Glasses and Adamant nature because every other move is shit and once it sets up webs and maybe rocks it's pretty much useless so might as well get some knock offs goin
And except for on Shuckle the only useful move is Knock Off so I just filled the rest of the slots with shit filler moves because Knock Off is the only move you need
Krookodile is basically the set up sweeper
Bisharp @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Rock Polish
- Scratch
Shuckle @ Black Glasses
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Knock Off
- Switcheroo
- Giga Impact
- Trump Card
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pickpocket
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind
- Hyper Beam
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Giga Impact
- Spite
- Snarl
Zoroark @ Choice Band
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Ball
- Imprison
- Attract
No but for real
Knock Off is crazy good now with next to no drawbacks, but not as broken as people are saying it is in this particular meta.
I'm sick of seeing rain teams tbh.
Regardless though after playing for a while I feel like this meta is so much more competitive no matter where you are on the ladder while as opposed to the regular ladder, lower ranked games are pretty relaxing and easy and it doesn't get competitive until much higher up. At least, from my own personal experience.
It's great that teams aren't restricted so much because of a handful of Pokemon and you never actually go into a game admitting defeat at team preview. There are still situations where the other team has a CLEAR advantage, but there are rarely instances (especially if you have a well built team) where you have to cleverly play around a certain Pokemon or worry whether or not something is running X or Y, which Pokemon is their mega, or if they're running a certain coverage move or not (you still do need to take some stuff into consideration but it's not nearly as bad). For the most part it's much more straightforward, which is both more boring and more entertaining on both a more relaxing and competitive level.
Personally, I feel like this ladder is better (in the sense of how enjoyable it is) than the standard OU ladder. But at the same time every rain team is basically the same 9 Pokemon just rearranged and every other team has the same 3-4 Pokemon.
I'm sick of seeing rain teams tbh.
Regardless though after playing for a while I feel like this meta is so much more competitive no matter where you are on the ladder while as opposed to the regular ladder, lower ranked games are pretty relaxing and easy and it doesn't get competitive until much higher up. At least, from my own personal experience.
It's great that teams aren't restricted so much because of a handful of Pokemon and you never actually go into a game admitting defeat at team preview. There are still situations where the other team has a CLEAR advantage, but there are rarely instances (especially if you have a well built team) where you have to cleverly play around a certain Pokemon or worry whether or not something is running X or Y, which Pokemon is their mega, or if they're running a certain coverage move or not (you still do need to take some stuff into consideration but it's not nearly as bad). For the most part it's much more straightforward, which is both more boring and more entertaining on both a more relaxing and competitive level.
Personally, I feel like this ladder is better (in the sense of how enjoyable it is) than the standard OU ladder. But at the same time every rain team is basically the same 9 Pokemon just rearranged and every other team has the same 3-4 Pokemon.
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Sebberball
formerly BoXeD
This no mega ladder seem to be good, better than that shit no scald ladder. But A LOT more Pokemon got better, with some Pokemon leaving, a lot of different Pokemon aren't as easily countered, like talonflame and physical leads. With mega sableye gone, a lot of different hazards are better, and not having to bring a set-upper to every battle with sableye is great. The most Pokemon that got better was (IMO) dragon and ghost. These two were countered by a lot of megas. And weather is also better in this current meta, althought the biggest rain sweeper died along with the megas in this meta, and sun died off, but hail and sand have gotten A LOT better, not having to worry about mega diancie and others.
So the good teams I've seen on this ladder seem to be Rain (most are bad, but are a few good ones), Lando/Keldeo Pursuit teams, and some sort of balance build. Thus far I haven't seen any stall or HO team.
Also here is a balanced v balance match I had on the upper ladder for any1 interested: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218724032
Also here is a balanced v balance match I had on the upper ladder for any1 interested: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ounomega-218724032
Dunno what qualifies as 'upper ladder', but i'm seeing a ton of hazard stacking + setup offence in the 1200-1350 range.
no stall though
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