Metagame Inverse

#51
Golisopod @ Life Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet
- Toxic

I love this set of golisopod. I think that the problem in standard game of recovery is not longer a huge problem because of the bug overpowered coverage thanks to leech life. Running a life orb set is à way to make Aqua jet more powerful than an insect plate set. Then toxic is a way to beat avalugg and preventing it to stay on the battle ground for too long. For me a seriously good revenge killer and a huge treat for offensive team.
 
#52
Chandelure @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Energy Ball
Chandy more or less outclasses Blacephelon thanks to 2 factors:Energy Ball and Flash Fire. Energy ball lets Chandelure hit grass/steel/bug types that may be problematic otherwise, and Flash Fire grants Chandelure an immunity as well. Shadow Ball is a very spammable move in this meta with only 2 resists, and coming off of that 145 base special attack stat it hits very hard. Chandelure resists pursuit and stealth rocks, granting it a lot more longetivity. It also has enough bulk to survive a non life orb mach punch from Breloom with this spread and ko back with energy ball. Finally, taunt lets Chandelure beat Chansey 1v1 if you taunt as it uses toxic, and stop certain setup oppurtunites. You can even run a scarf set to revenge kill water or dragon types, and a specs set to rip through teams without really having a counter. Overall, Chandelure is an underlooked threat in the meta, rather slow, but it can use its typing and movepool to put in some work.
Example: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-742925131


There is one threat in the meta I feel has gone unnoticed, and is perhaps the most broken pokemon at least on paper in inverse. You can look at the left to my Icon to see who it is. Yep, that's right. Zangoose.
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Toxic/Filler
Normal type has no resistances. 0. If you go looking for an extreme speed abuser with SD, you come up with Lucario, who lacks normal type stab. If you look at Quick Attack+SD normal type and click for attack, you'll find Zangoose sitting at the top. Moreover, it is the second fastest user. With Toxic Boost, the power of a Facade skyrockets to hit 210. You're practically using explosion. Zangoose only has one resistance, fighting, but that is enough to manipulate. Ghost types can lure in said fighting type (Breloom most likely), and click memento. Blah, blah, search moves: Chandelure is one of the most viable users. After blowing through teams,(Modest specs 2hkos Chansey with rocks), Chandelure can click memento and Zangoose is ready to go. Once Zangoose lives to get off an SD, you're more or less finished.
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
(Everything else dies bar Fur Coat abusers)
With Quick Attack, anything bulky survives so long as they're above 70%, but it isn't too hard to chip down pokes into that range between hazards, weather and rocky helmet. This is key though.
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill: 400-472 (147.6 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Overall, Zangoose is very, very good. It can wallbreak early game, and sweep once those bulky mons hit 70%. It has priority which hits ghost and rock types, and no counters. Whether other factors will barely keep him in the tier(frail,Shadow Sneak,worn down by poison), I don't know. But please try him out and see his dangerous potential.
 
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#53
I don't think there is a role compendium so I'll provide a helpful index for checks/counters to a top threat in the meta: Mamoswine.
Nido Twins: Access to rocks, varied movepool, and both hit like a truck. Can be taken out by Superpower though(I think it's a rare move on Mamo, but noted it anyway)
Rhypherior: Immense Physical Bulk, resisting Fighting, Ground, Ice, Steel, Grass and Water, with double resistances to the latter two. Hits very hard:Decent movepool with rocks
Lati Twins: They can take any move bar Superpower, and resist many types, although burdened with many weaknesses as well. Mega variants can counter M-Beedrill, just mind the poison chance from poison jab. Fast as well means revenge killing isn't as much as a problem, and dragon type moves let them rip through the tier.
Hydreigon: Absolute counter to all Mamoswines, hits harder than Latias, almost like Latios. Forgot to mention that all 3 dragons have defog, so use that as well.
Stunfisk: Stealth rocks. Thunder Wave. I don't think he's very good otherwise.
 
#54

Rhyperior @ Chilan Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Counter
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This can be a pretty dope lure against the many normal types in the meta. Mega Lopunny, Type: Null and others get decked by this.


Silvally-Water @ Water Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Flamethrower
- Defog
- Parting Shot

I know this mon gets this reputation as a super dissapointing shitmon, but I truly believe Silvally's Water form has an actual niche in this tier, being that it is the only viable Defogger that resists both Grass and Electric moves. Ok, Fini exists, but the thing with Fini is that it's slower and has 3 more weaknesses than Watervally. Watervally's weaknesses aren't even common (Steel weakness oh no whatever shall we do aaaaaaa). Pair this with Chansey and you're gonna have a fun time.

Also this is the last time I am saying this please use type null it's amazing
 
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#55
surprised to see zero mention of acid armor reuniclus yet (actually very little mention or use of most psychics so far, which is probably helping my experience with it), very little has changed for it this gen that ive encountered aside from like... koko making grasses that sleep it bad and a handful of new wallbreakers it needs to be careful about before It Begins.
i mean it still has its share of issues in that it needs wallbreakers gone, and it needs to force a switch or come in on smth passive to get its armor up, and i get that people are on that type: null kick right now for bulky mono-attacking setup, but... so far for me reuniclus is still pretty damn solid late game

also ^^^silvally water n poison r cool tech btw
 
#56
I've created a very unofficial Inverse VR (using Yung Dramps's posts, the OM room's various players's feedback, and my somewhat limited experience).

S Ranking:
  • Beedrill-Mega
  • Diggersby
  • Tapu Koko
A+ Ranking:
  • Alakazam-Mega
  • Articuno
  • Avalugg
  • Breloom
  • Chansey
  • Dragonite
  • Greninja-Ash
  • Lopunny-Mega
  • Meloetta
  • Porygon-Z
  • Staraptor
A Ranking:
  • Aerodactyl-Mega
  • Greninja
  • Mamoswine
  • Porygon-2
  • Snorlax
  • Tangrowth
  • Tyranitar
A- Ranking:
  • Nihilego
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Type:Null
  • Zangoose
B+ Ranking:
  • Abomasnow-Mega
  • Alakazam
  • Cresselia
  • Linoone
  • Miltank
  • Reuniclus
  • Ribombee
  • Rhydon
B Ranking:
  • Celebi
  • Kyurem
  • Mew
  • Rhyperior
  • Slowbro-Mega
B- Ranking:
  • Drampa
  • Furfrou
  • Hawlucha
  • Persian-Alola
  • Pikachu
C+ Ranking:
  • Blacephalon
  • Genesect
  • Golisopod
  • Scizor-Mega
C Ranking:
  • Buzzwole
  • Dialga
  • Giratina-Altered
  • Marowak
  • Scizor
  • Slowbro
C- Ranking:
  • Silvally-Water
  • Solgaleo
  • Tapu Fini
  • Toxapex
  • Xurkitree
D Ranking:
  • Aegislash
  • Vespiquen
Do Not Use:
  • Shedinja


I welcome suggestions and additions.

edited from Yung Dramps's following post
 
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#57
I've created a very unofficial Inverse VR (using Yung Dramps's posts, the OM room's various players's feedback, and my somewhat limited experience).

S Ranking:
  • Avalugg
  • Breloom
  • Chansey
  • Tapu Koko
A Ranking:
  • Articuno
  • Beedrill-Mega
  • Diggersby
  • Dragonite
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Greninja-Ash
  • Mamoswine
  • Meloetta
  • Nihilego
  • Porygon-Z
  • Snorlax
  • Staraptor
B Ranking:
  • Cresselia
  • Drampa
  • Greninja
  • Hawlucha
  • Lucario-Mega
  • Kyurem
  • Mew
  • Miltank
  • Porygon2
  • Rhydon
  • Rhyperior
  • Slowbro-Mega
  • Type:Null
  • Zangoose
C Ranking:
  • Buzzwole
  • Blacephalon
  • Dialga
  • Genesect
  • Giratina-Altered
  • Golisopod
  • Scizor
  • Scizor-Mega
  • Silvally-Water
  • Slowbro
  • Solgaleo
  • Tapu Fini
  • Toxapex
  • Vespiquen
  • Xurkitree
D Ranking:
  • Aegislash
Do Not Use:
  • Shedinja


I welcome suggestions and additions.
Very interesting VR. Lemme provide my own feedback.

-Both Type: Null and P2 belong in the A ranks. They have similar qualities, being Normal types who are exceedingly bulky with Eviolite. From there, their roles branch off, with Null being a solid late-game mono-attacking cleaner, and P2 just being a nice tank overall. But whatever their role is, they do it super nicely, and deserve recognition for that. Knock only having a few common users aids their viability too.

-I've tried Vespiquen a few times, and it's kinda bad. 4x weakness to Grass really sucks, and its natural bulk is eh. Put it in D rank IMO, or maybe C- if you decide to make subranks.

-Both Linoone and Mega Lopunny deserve to be ranked somewhere, the former in B ranks and the latter in A ranks. The former has a hard time setting up, but once it does, +4 Espeed spam is nigh impossible to stop. The latter is just destructive as hell, even with a redundant ability. Also, outspeeding Koko is an amazing quality considering how busted that boy is.

-Mega Abomasnow should also be ranked, probably in high B or low A ranks. It does the same shit as vanilla Mega Aboma, except with an actually good defensive typing and powerful Grass coverage. I've been having a lot of fun with a SubSeed set that can take advantage of Chansey to heal off insane amounts of HP.

-Protean Gren should rise to A ranks, it's ability to 1v1 ChanLugg is amazing and it's just stupid strong compared to AshGren which is kinda weak pre-BB, I'd even argue to swap their rankings tbh

In other news, I highly encourage the council to look at Tapu Koko's influence over the next few days. We all know how hard its Electric STABs hit and how hard they are to switch into, but even with this knowledge, it's really hard to deal with. Electric checks are truly few and far between, and even the limited switch-ins that do exist can be taken advantage of by moves like Volt Switch or Taunt. I think it's kinda unhealthy tbh, and I wanna hear some discussion on it.
 
#58
As I'm very new to this meta I would like to discuss the viability of sticky webs, particularly on HO teams. I personally REALLY like ribombee as a sticky webs setter and potential set-up sweeper.

Ribombee@focus sash
ability: Shield dust
Evs: 252 SpA/4 SpDef/252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Energy Ball
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance

As a setter, this pokemon outspeeds common taunt users such as greninja (but can be hard walled by it), and can ensure the webs, and shield dust allows it to ignore fake out flinch. When paired with energy ball and bug buzz coverage, it can also easily take out flying types, which are the usual suspect for defog, and can even OHKO opposing threats such as volcarona, gengar and tapu koko, and can dent some others like golisopod and avalugg (If that's their only hazard remover). If I had to give a projected ranking, I'd probably give it a B or B-.
 
#59
For that viability ranking, it looks decent but you're missing quite a few mons. First of all, grass types. Celebi and Tangrowth are extremely good defensively in the meta. Secondly, don't forget Tyranitar, who has sky high attack, many resistances, can pursuit trap greninja, and has sand. Gengar is an excellent revenge killer and stalllbreaker, with access to taunt, pain split, and a typing which cannot be poisoned. Finally, Staraptor is crazy good, its double edge hits very hard while it has access to other things like Intimidate, roost,u turn and defog. There are probably many other unnoticed threats, but the viability ranking is otherwise pretty accurate. I also think Beedrill-M might be S.
Other Subjects:
With Fur Coat, Furfrou and Alolan Persian receive bulk rivaling that of Avalugg. They don't have recovery outside of rest, but their niches are their speed. Persian is faster and has foul play and parting shot, but Furfrou has stab return, sucker punch and thunder wave, Overall, they're pretty interesting to look into. Bewear is much bulkier and slower, and has access to SD and Bulk Up, letting you use an effective RestTalk set. The only reason it doesn't outclass the above 2 is its weakness to rocks, and in furfrou's case, the extra weakness its secondary typing provides. They should start to have an impact on the meta once people realize how they can take on Lopunny-M, Beedrill, and various physical attackers.

Replay that shows metagame threats: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-743337107
Full game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-743340131
Staraptor's potential: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-743347935
Tyranitar&friends: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-743382495
Staraptor @ Lum Berry
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double-Edge
- Roost
- Agility
- Toxic
Poison Avalugg, Lum berry your way around him, then a second wallbreaker will be able to get through him, such as Zangoose, or you can sweep lategame

Mega Aerodactyl is an underlooked threat in the meta as well, an easy A rank. Tough claws boosts the power of Return, and it can check Tapu Koko and Xurkitree. Double Edge can be used for more power, OHKOing Xurk after a little prior damage, but keep recoil in mind. It also beats the Avalugg core without any help. His high speed tier lets him revenge kill many threats with Return, but his rock typing leaves him easy bait for normal type priority. Overall, a solid addition to teams looking for electric checks.
Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Return
- Taunt
- Toxic
252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill-Mega: 303-357 (111.8 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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#60
You're missing Mega Alakazam, which outspeeds Beedrill and Sceptile to OHKO both with Energy Ball. It also has Encore to facilitate set-up, and you 2HKO Chansey with Psyshock at +1, while Energy Ball easily breaks Avalugg.
 

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#61
I've created a very unofficial Inverse VR (using Yung Dramps's posts, the OM room's various players's feedback, and my somewhat limited experience).

S Ranking:
  • Avalugg
  • Chansey
S-:
  • Beedrill-Mega
  • Breloom
  • Tapu Koko
A+ Ranking:
  • Alakazam-Mega
  • Articuno
  • Diggersby
  • Dragonite
  • Greninja-Ash
  • Meloetta
  • Porygon-Z
  • Staraptor
A Ranking:
  • Aerodactyl-Mega
  • Greninja
  • Lopunny-Mega
  • Mamoswine
  • Porygon-2
  • Snorlax
  • Tangrowth
  • Tyranitar
A- Ranking:
  • Nihilego
  • Giratina-Origin
  • Type:Null
B+ Ranking:
  • Abomasnow-Mega
  • Alakazam
  • Cresselia
  • Linoone
  • Miltank
  • Ribombee
  • Rhydon
B Ranking:
  • Celebi
  • Kyurem
  • Mew
  • Rhyperior
  • Slowbro-Mega
  • Zangoose
B- Ranking:
  • Drampa
  • Furfrou
  • Hawlucha
  • Persian-Alola
C+ Ranking:
  • Blacephalon
  • Genesect
  • Golisopod
  • Scizor-Mega
C Ranking:
  • Buzzwole
  • Giratina-Altered
  • Dialga
  • Scizor
  • Slowbro
C- Ranking:
  • Silvally-Water
  • Solgaleo
  • Tapu Fini
  • Toxapex
  • Xurkitree
D Ranking:
  • Aegislash
  • Vespiquen
Do Not Use:
  • Shedinja


I welcome suggestions and additions.

edited from Yung Dramps's following post
Ayy nice.

We're trying to work out a more officialized one, but this is definitely a good stepping stone to use.

My main gripes are Lop-Mega, Avalugg and Chansey.

Chanslugg isn't S tier, and Lop-Mega is A+ at a minimum

Fake Out / PuP / Return / Quick Attack pretty much beats half the meta, with Fake out / PuP / Return / HJK beating the other half.

Also I'd like everyone to check out

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Quick attack

+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 355-418 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 424-501 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill-Mega: 400-472 (147.6 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 279-328 (111.1 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nothing in the metagame can currently stand up to this at +2 and it's absolutely insane and beautiful ahahahaha
 
#62
Been having success w/ this on a Rain Dance team

Armaldo @ Rocky Helmet/ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 248 Atk/ 8 SpD/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Aqua Tail
-Stone Edge
-X-Scissor
-Hone Claws

usually knocks out Tapu Koko, Aqua Tail hits grass types expecting to switch into X-Scissor
 
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#63
Ayy nice.

We're trying to work out a more officialized one, but this is definitely a good stepping stone to use.

My main gripes are Lop-Mega, Avalugg and Chansey.

Chanslugg isn't S tier, and Lop-Mega is A+ at a minimum

Fake Out / PuP / Return / Quick Attack pretty much beats half the meta, with Fake out / PuP / Return / HJK beating the other half.

Also I'd like everyone to check out

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Quick attack

+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 355-418 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 424-501 (104.9 - 124%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Beedrill-Mega: 400-472 (147.6 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam-Mega: 279-328 (111.1 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nothing in the metagame can currently stand up to this at +2 and it's absolutely insane and beautiful ahahahaha
I'd like to hear your thoughts on why neither Chansey nor Avalugg are S. To my understanding, they are THE premiere defensive Pokemon in the OM. Teams make it or break depending on their ability to deal with the core, as they are probably the two most splashable defensive Pomemon in the metagame, and probably in the entire tier.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
#64
I'd like to hear your thoughts on why neither Chansey nor Avalugg are S. To my understanding, they are THE premiere defensive Pokemon in the OM. Teams make it or break depending on their ability to deal with the core, as they are probably the two most splashable defensive Pomemon in the metagame, and probably in the entire tier.
Bear in mind that I haven't played more than about two games this generation, and none since USUM hit; but I was one of the best ORAS Inverse players so I think I have some insight here.

Chanslugg is an incredible defensive core against people who are unprepared, and it's even pretty good against more experienced players. I'd compare it to something like ADV SkarmBliss. But it is very, very passive, to the point where I'd want to see it across from me at team preview, simply for the autowin. Stuff which can handle the core (ranging from complete counters, to stuff which cripples one/both) includes:
-SubCM Meloetta
-other 101HP subs eg SubToxic Kyurem
-Mega Obama
-DD + Ice Beam Dragonite (possibly even SubRoost)
-Shell Smash Cloyster
-Koff on special attackers
-other mixed attackers
-Ursaring (GOAT stallbreaker which is even better this gen thanks to the Burn nerf)
-Blacephalon
-SD Mega Pinsir
-SD Mega Heracross
-SD (or even DD) Haxorus
-NP or Z-conversion Porygon-Z
-TG Xurkitree
-SD + Ice type move (eg Feraligatr)
-random Toxics on physical attackers + pressure
-Taunt (especially with recovery)
-most dedicated stallbreakers eg Stallbreaker Mew, Taunt Gliscor
-Reuniclus
-Tangrowth
-Voltturn
-CM+SP Espeon
-Snorlax (why is this still legal yikes)

As you can see, things which avoid passive damage (through Taunt/Sub/ability), Taunt in general, mixed attackers, Knock Off, and powerful setup attackers, all apply immense pressure on the Chanslugg user; as do the standard tactics of keeping up momentum, and dealing residual damage through hazards/Toxic etc. I haven't even touched on most Gen 7 things (Z moves!) but I'd imagine things like (Taunt) Koko handle both fairly well as well.

They're certainly not bad by any means, and I'd be hesitant to see them anywhere lower than A- at this stage of the meta. But they aren't the be-all end-all that people may believe them to be.

There are a bunch of heat sets in the old thread, some of which will still be relevant this generation.
 
#65
Don't get why Snorlax isn't S rank in this meta. The more I played, the more I realize it's really disgusting to prepare. A simple Roar won't be enough because I've swept with a last mon standing Snorlax. If you can't constantly pressure it, you'll lose. Ppl seems to just "hey, trickscarf handles it" when it fails vs Z-moves variants.
 
#66
sorry for the low quality post i got little time so im just gonna say that koko is actually dumb, it seriously has no switch-ins, the closest things to switch-ins like silvally-w and rhyperior get crapped on by u-turn and volt and shit, that speed tier and various options for sets don't help it be less broken that's for sure
 
#67
sorry for the low quality post i got little time so im just gonna say that koko is actually dumb, it seriously has no switch-ins, the closest things to switch-ins like silvally-w and rhyperior get crapped on by u-turn and volt and shit, that speed tier and various options for sets don't help it be less broken that's for sure
Specs definitely the best set rn imho
 
#68
As a long time Inverse player, I have always known about this metagame's myriad of imbalances. For now, I will only mention Diggersby, as well as the very obscure but effective Komala.

We all know Avalugg and Mega Slowbro are the only Pokemon that can endure Diggersby's onslaught. What's worse, people have discovered Choice Band Komala, an extremely powerful wallbreaker that is Toxic immune. I'll start by explaining Choice Band Diggersby and Komala: since Avalugg (and Mega Slowbro outside of rocks) are Choice Band Diggersby's only counters, you will likely have to endure 16 or more Returns (which has a high chance of critting if we're talking about multiple instances.) As Choice Band Diggersby and Komala only need to use their normal STAB, they absolutely control the opponent's switching patterns, making it absurdly easy to double switch to an unfavorable matchup to Slowbro and Avalugg. To address both of Diggersby's sets, you are required to use a combination of Avalugg + fast Cresselia, Avalugg + Mega Slowbro, Avalugg + Quagsire, or Avalugg + Pyukumuku.

The reason why we need two separate counters is because Diggersby can use Swords Dance. If you're using Avalugg + Cresselia or Mega Slowbro, then you'd most likely rely on Toxic to kill Diggersby, even if Diggersby is using a Lum Berry. This more than likely means that you will be sacking one or two Pokemon, depending on the circumstances. As for Pyukumuku and Quagsire, they both unfortunately succumb to Z Earthquake on the switch, but are both able to address non-Life Orb variants. If Avalugg's HP is fully intact, Diggersby has no way of OHKOing it after Swords Dance (Sturdy guarantees this.) This means Avalugg can take a Z Earthquake from Diggersby, poison it, and then switch directly to Pyukumuku or Quagsire. And this, my friends, is assuming you possess two counters for both of its sets. Diggersby completely destroys balanced teams if you fail to counter the Swords Dance or Choice Band set.

252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 160-189 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 150-177 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 239-282 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 234-277 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 324-382 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 205-243 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Forcing every team that isn't Hyper Offense to use Avalugg is highly oppressive and unbecoming for such a popular metagame. We need to apply common sense reasoning to call for rulings that will benefit this metagame. As such, I believe the council should take swift action and ban Diggersby or normal type attacking moves. Choice Band Komala actually hits harder, but it needs more testing before we can say anything about it.

The main problem with Diggersby and normal types in general is that they possess unresisted STAB, which is why I ask everyone: what do you think will happen if Tapu Lele inherits an unresisted Psychic move? The OU council would go absolutely ballistic! To those that even think of accusing me of forging false equivalencies: please try to have common sense, and don't cling to absurd notions. Just because Inverse is different doesn't mean we should lower our standards. An unresisted move that is only countered by two Pokemon is highly problematic and unhealthy.
 
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#70
sorry for the low quality post i got little time so im just gonna say that koko is actually dumb, it seriously has no switch-ins, the closest things to switch-ins like silvally-w and rhyperior get crapped on by u-turn and volt and shit, that speed tier and various options for sets don't help it be less broken that's for sure
Not sure if Silvally is the best example of a Koko switchin, there are many like Articuno, Mantine, Slowking, Chansey, that are bulkier and have recovery. The biggest issue is that Volt Switch can't be blocked reliably short of running Rhydon(which is a good mon BTW if a bit niche), since all the other Electric immunities such as Mega Sceptile, Thundurus Therian and Alolan Marowak drop to coverage.
 
#72
Would like to second the effectiveness of Reuniclus; its sheer bulk and access to Acid Armor and Calm Mind make it really freaking terrifying if it can set up. Magic Guard is also great.
Set:
Reuniclus @ Psychium Z
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 188 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
I like just a little bit of investment in defense since now Beedrill's Poison Jab becomes a guaranteed 4HKO and it just makes Acid Armor more effective; Psychium Z is there to punch holes and to prevent it from being Tricked, and the speed is to just outspeed other Reuniclus with no investment.
A game that I just played:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inverse-745620347
Reuniclus set up on P2 and effectively swept. Not sure where it should be placed, but I think it's deserving of somewhere in B to B+, or even A-. I've just started trying this thing, but it has exceeded my expectations.
 
#73
I think the two most reliable Tapu Koko switch-ins I've employed thus far are Mantine and Motor Drive Electevire.

Mantine is comfortably bulky and has a 4x resistance, Electevire can absorb an electric move and actually have some offensive utility, especially after a speed boost from Motor Drive.
 
#74
As a long time Inverse player, I have always known about this metagame's myriad of imbalances. For now, I will only mention Diggersby, as well as the very obscure but effective Komala.

We all know Avalugg and Mega Slowbro are the only Pokemon that can endure Diggersby's onslaught. What's worse, people have discovered Choice Band Komala, an extremely powerful wallbreaker that is Toxic immune. I'll start by explaining Choice Band Diggersby and Komala: since Avalugg (and Mega Slowbro outside of rocks) are Choice Band Diggersby's only counters, you will likely have to endure 16 or more Returns (which has a high chance of critting if we're talking about multiple instances.) As Choice Band Diggersby and Komala only need to use their normal STAB, they absolutely control the opponent's switching patterns, making it absurdly easy to double switch to an unfavorable matchup to Slowbro and Avalugg. To address both of Diggersby's sets, you are required to use a combination of Avalugg + fast Cresselia, Avalugg + Mega Slowbro, Avalugg + Quagsire, or Avalugg + Pyukumuku.

The reason why we need two separate counters is because Diggersby can use Swords Dance. If you're using Avalugg + Cresselia or Mega Slowbro, then you'd most likely rely on Toxic to kill Diggersby, even if Diggersby is using a Lum Berry. This more than likely means that you will be sacking one or two Pokemon, depending on the circumstances. As for Pyukumuku and Quagsire, they both unfortunately succumb to Z Earthquake on the switch, but are both able to address non-Life Orb variants. If Avalugg's HP is fully intact, Diggersby has no way of OHKOing it after Swords Dance (Sturdy guarantees this.) This means Avalugg can take a Z Earthquake from Diggersby, poison it, and then switch directly to Pyukumuku or Quagsire. And this, my friends, is assuming you possess two counters for both of its sets. Diggersby completely destroys balanced teams if you fail to counter the Swords Dance or Choice Band set.

252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Komala Last Resort vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 160-189 (40.6 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 150-177 (38 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- 15.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 239-282 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 234-277 (59.3 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 318-375 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro-Mega: 324-382 (82.2 - 96.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 153-181 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 157-186 (39.8 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 205-243 (46.1 - 54.7%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Forcing every team that isn't Hyper Offense to use Avalugg is highly oppressive and unbecoming for such a popular metagame. We need to apply common sense reasoning to call for rulings that will benefit this metagame. As such, I believe the council should take swift action and ban Diggersby or normal type attacking moves. Choice Band Komala actually hits harder, but it needs more testing before we can say anything about it.

The main problem with Diggersby and normal types in general is that they possess unresisted STAB, which is why I ask everyone: what do you think will happen if Tapu Lele inherits an unresisted Psychic move? The OU council would go absolutely ballistic! To those that even think of accusing me of forging false equivalencies: please try to have common sense, and don't cling to absurd notions. Just because Inverse is different doesn't mean we should lower our standards. An unresisted move that is only countered by two Pokemon is highly problematic and unhealthy.
Very well thought out, I agree with this, I think banning normal is something that many(not all) want, but are a little intimidated by thinking of banning such a wide topic. But something does need to be done about STAB normal, I want(and I am sure I am not alone) to make a non-avaluag team that does not require as much skill, but... options are scarce.
 

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