Metagame Inverse

OM

Stay safe everyone.
is a Battle Simulator Moderator
A lot of the OP from E4 Flint. Approved by TI and Ransei.
1594419772876.png

Banner by Gravity Monkey

What is Inverse?
In Inverse, the type chart is flipped on its head, just like in battles against the guy in the Inverse House in Pokemon X and Y. Super effective attacks become not very effective and vice versa, and immunities become super effective hits.

Here's a chart showing the new type matchups:

There are a couple of caveats to note:
  • This affects Stealth Rock. For instance, in Inverse Battles Mandibuzz would take 1/16 damage from Stealth Rock, and Excadrill would take 1/2.
  • Ability-based immunities are unaffected: Levitate, Volt Absorb, and similar abilities all work as normal.
  • Type-based immunities to status and other type-specific mechanics are unaffected as well. For instance, Electric-types still can't be paralysed, Ghost-types can't be trapped, and Flying-types are still immune to Spikes.
What are the bans and clauses?
Inverse uses OU clauses.

Bans
  • Pokemon
    • Calyrex-Ice, Calyrex-Shadow, Darmanitan-Galar, Dialga, Diggersby, Dracovish, Eternatus, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kartana, Kyogre, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Mewtwo, Naganadel, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Pheromosa, Rayquaza, Regieleki, Reshiram, Rillaboom, Solgaleo, Spectrier, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta, Zekrom
This is equivalent to the OU banlist but with the following changes:
  • Bans
    • Diggersby, Rillaboom, Regieleki, Naganadel, Kartana, Spectrier, Pheromosa
  • Unbans
    • Zamazenta-Crowned, Zygarde

Where can I play it?
Inverse is currently playable using /challenge [user], gen8ou@@@inversemod, -diggersby, -rillaboom, -spectrier, -regieleki, -pheromosa, -naganadel, -kartana, +zygarde, +zamazenta-crowned

Strategy

As you might expect, type dynamics are completely flipped in Inverse. Ice is a fantastic defensive typing, with 4 resistances and only a single weakness to itself. On the other hand, Steel is an awful typing, with a whopping 9 weaknesses. With no resistances or immunities, Normal is a great offensive typing, and Rapid Spin can't be blocked.

Many format mainstays from previous generations, like Mega Beedrill and Breloom, have been cut from Sword & Shield, which will no doubt shake up the metagame. On the other hand, old threats such as Avalugg, Snorlax and Diggersby are still around, and are joined by powerful new Pokemon like Dragapult and Obstagoon.

Resources
(coming soon!)

Council
MAMP
In The Hills
OM
 
Last edited:

MAMP

mamp
is a Pre-Contributor
Something I want to get community input on: last generation, a number of Ubers Pokemon (mainly Steel types) were unbanned, and proved to be balanced in the metagame. I'm interested in doing this again, but I would appreciate discussion on which Pokemon specifically should be unbanned. I think Melmetal in particular would likely be fine, but there's also a consideration for Solgaleo and perhaps Zamazenta-C.
 

Fardin

Never won a tour.
Despite inverse turnings one of solg's main pros into a con, it is still a pretty dangerous threat to most ou mons. It has 137 base hp which is super high in ou standards and has a diverse move pool. One of the things that imo at least allows the meta to deal with it is the lack of set up moves it has. I can only really just see it function as a pure tank with band, or a neat scafer that don't care about webs. Either way letting people experiment with it shouldn't be that bad. Zam c tho deserves to get u unbanned, it's booty
 
Looking at Uber Steels:

:melmetal: Weak to everything, horribly slow. It can still hit very hard as it always has, but it loses a lot of value now that it's defensive potential is ruined. OU saw it banned in part thanks to Acid Armor Body Press being a viable option with a completely different set of answers: good luck making that work now.

:solgaleo: Similar to Melmetal, its fantastic bulk is ruined by an awful defensive typing: the difference here is how much faster Solgaleo is. 97 Speed is much better, though still slow enough to put it in danger of a variety of faster Pokemon. 137 Attack is very good as well, and it can definitely take some hits with how good its overall stats are.

:necrozma-dusk-mane: Thanks to Prism Armor, you can take one hit from full better than Solgaleo, but the HP loss is extreme enough that your higher base Defenses still leave you frailer, if I did the calculation properly. 77 Speed is also much worse, even if you get a massive Attack stat in exchange. Scarf doesn't outspeed Timid/Jolly Dragapult and you get swamped by its STAB Dragon moves. I feel like it should be managable.

:zamazenta-crowned: The main issue with this is Speed. It's very fast at base 128, though it gets outsped by a couple key Pokemon like the aforementioned Dragapult. It's still got a hefty Attack Stat and great PhysDef thanks to Dauntless Shield. It also takes 1/2 from Stealth Rock and literally can't use an item. Could be strong in the right hands but it manages to be worse here than it is normally.

:zacian-crowned: Even with a SR Weakness, no item slot, a quad weakness to U-Turn, and a horrific typing, 170 Base Attack + Free Attack Boost for EXISTING + 148 Speed is insane. You can't 2HKO Avalugg even at +1, however, so it won't be insta-sweeping through any and every team. That said, I think the pressure it applies is enough to make this questionable and feel like it'd warp teambuilding too much.
 
Looking at Uber Steels:
:zacian-crowned: Even with a SR Weakness, no item slot, a quad weakness to U-Turn, and a horrific typing, 170 Base Attack + Free Attack Boost for EXISTING + 148 Speed is insane. You can't 2HKO Avalugg even at +1, however, so it won't be insta-sweeping through any and every team. That said, I think the pressure it applies is enough to make this questionable and feel like it'd warp teambuilding too much.
Random thought:
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 124-147 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO

If they are 252/252+ then you can run moonblast and do quite a lot of the damages:
48 SpA Zacian-Crowned Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(48 cos that's the most u can do and still outspeed pult)
and if they're not full def then u get a lot closer to a 2hko with play rough

The main takeaway from this is avalugg is broken
 
Tours Plaza has Inverse a one of it's "Custom Tiers" and is explored pretty well. So I hope I can contribute to this thread a lot along with many other TP peeps.

Uber Steels
:melmetal:
Melmetal although has the steel typing and frail on the special side, Melmetal still is a threat clicking Double Iron Bash and still has a way to beat Avalugg
Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Earthquake
This fun set is able to 2hko Max HP Avalugg with Ice Beam after rocks and can break through basically everything with Double Iron Bash:
40- SpA Melmetal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (After Rocks)
252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
:Solgaleo:
Despite the Steel typing, with it's great bulk and 137 Atk stat and decent speed it can be a huge threat in the Metagame
Solgaleo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat
- Psychic
This Scarfed set is really good against the metagame being able to outspeed offensive threats in the Metagame like Dragapult and Gengar. With it's 137 Atk it can break through a lot of Pokemon. It can also beat Avalugg with Psychic which is able to 2hko Max HP Avalugg:
4 SpA Solgaleo Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Solgaleo @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Full Metal Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Psychic
- Close Combat
- Flame Charge
Taking Advantage of all these Weaknesses and Flame Charge can go through teams
+2 252 Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 247-292 (66 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


:Zamazenta Crowned:
This Pokémon even though checks by Avalugg, can't avoid 50% from rocks and has a really bad defensive typing this pokemon's stats can get away with all it's weaknesses; It's Fast and Strong with good defenses.
Zamazenta-Crowned @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Work Up
- Close Combat
- Behemoth Bash
- Hyper Voice
This set can beat non-roar Avalugg's and go through Stall/Balance Teams and still can take a super effective hit with it's bulk
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 178-211 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 4 SpA Zamazenta-Crowned Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 197-232 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I can see all these three mons unbanned from Inverse despite only one of them being unbanned in the TP Inverse Meta (Melmetal)

:Necrozma Dusk Mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Psychic Fangs
- Dragon Dance / Rock polish
- Morning Sun
Having Prism Armor and Incredible bulk allowing it to activate it's Weakness Policy and sweep:
+2 252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 756-889 (191.8 - 225.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO


:zacian crowned: lol

(Also if someone could create an Inverse calc that'd be really dope)
I'll make some other post later aswell
 
Last edited:

Mubs

All in good time.
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributor
I don't think you should unban Zac-C as I'm pretty sure it comes with unbanning its regular form, which has a significantly better typing and almost all of the offensive tools.

Happy to see this meta back. Hope it wins a monthly ladder in the future.
 
I don't think you should unban Zac-C as I'm pretty sure it comes with unbanning its regular form, which has a significantly better typing and almost all of the offensive tools.
This shouldn't be an issue, as the two forms are listed separately and have been observed as separate for a long time now. This is supported by how Silvally is treated: the base form and the other Memory forms are all their own Pokemon. You can't remove the Memories they are holding either, whether through Knock Off or Trick. The same mechanics are in place for Zacian/Zamazenta and their Crowned forms. So unbanning the Crowned forms of either would not immediately allow the base forms to be used.
 
I don't think you should unban Zac-C as I'm pretty sure it comes with unbanning its regular form, which has a significantly better typing and almost all of the offensive tools.

Happy to see this meta back. Hope it wins a monthly ladder in the future.
You don’t necessarily have to unban the Hero form when unbanning the Crowned form.
Silvally forms and Megas were tiered differently.
Also I’m just more concerned about Zacian’s ridiculous Stats and its ability.

Anyways, Steel types like :Solgaleo: and :Melmetal: will be welcomed additions to combat :Urshifu-Single-Strike: (Still no sprite >_<).
With Inverse, Single Strike’s already good offensive typing is now better thanks to now hitting those pesky Fairies super effectively, and now it has a good defensive typing as well.

While Urshifu struggled with more defensive teams in OU thanks to its limited PP and reliance on Choice Band, running Metronome can be even better now against defensive teams since those sets have more PP and can hit pretty hard still. It also helps when your have a much easier time switching in, keeping your substitute up, and have perfect coverage.
 
Last edited:
Coming from Tours Plaze, I have to mention the banlist we have for the format and why each pokemon is banned, unbanned or being tested.

Diggersby is banned mainly because normal has no resists and it also carries swords dance and quick attack so unless you have an amazing physical wall (Like Avalugg) it's going to destroy your team easily.
Frosmoth was banned before DLC due to its good defensive typing and the amount of types it could hit super effectively with bug buzz. It's being tested after DLC because Chansey and Porygon2 were added so it has more trouble sweeping now.
Alakazam was quick-banned before we could even play one tournament with it. Offensively, psychic type is only resisted by poison and fighting and alakazam can use energy ball to cover poison types which are pretty common in inverse. The only pokemons who resist this coverage are poliwrath, urshifu-rapid-strike, keldeo and terrakion. This meant you could run Nasty Plot + Psychic + Psyshock + Energy ball and have no counters after a nasty plot.
Male Indeedee was also banned because psychic is too good offensively. Specs Expanding force would KO any pokemon that didn't resist or that wasn't called chansey (There was still psyshock for that). Unresisted Hyper voice was also a thing.
Weavile is being tested since it gained triple axel from the DLC. Most pokemons also don't enjoy taking knock offs and fighting covers dark perfectly so low kick is useful as well.

Melmetal was unbanned due to its bad defensive typing and the fact it struggles against avalugg. It's still very good since band double iron bash is very strong and steel type is actually better offensively in inverse. It's also bulky enough to survive physical/weaker super effective hits or decently powerful special hits.

(This calc was taken from a set used back when solgaleo was being tested before DLC. This calc was done by quadrupling psychic's base power)
4 SpA Solgaleo Psychic vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Melmetal: 306-360 (64.8 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Solgaleo is being retested at the moment (It stayed banned after being tested before DLC). The only tested set so far is scarf which can use psychic to hit avalugg through its weak point. While its attack may seem high, as long as you have a good wall that can take hits on both the physical and special side and that isn't weak to steel or psychic, you should be fine. (Examples include porygon2, chansey, assault vest tangrowth, hippowdon and rhyperior.) Its bulk can make it survive even super effective hits so underestimating it will let it take out your offensive mons.

Zamazenta-Crowned is also being retested. Offensively, it only gets higher speed than solgaleo but its coverage and attack are very bad. Lack of item and taking 50% to rocks is also a major issue. It gets hard-walled by ice and rock types and even special hits after a work up boost deal less than 50% to avalugg. Zamazenta is really bulky but doesn't do anything if your opponent has any decent defensive pokemon.

To end this post I'd link to link a pokepaste containing every set that's been tested and considered viable
As well as another one containing sets that haven't been tested but may have potential

I'd also like to mention that bug covers every type that resists, psychic and that fighting covers every type that resists ghost or dark (So Psychic + Bug is perfect coverage and so is Ghost/Dark + Fighting)
 
Last edited:
I've been seeing a lot of people that think inverse is entirely based on chansey + avalugg cores lately. While the core is very popular and may seem very hard to break or even broken, it's not. I'll try to prove that this core is not as good as people may think it is in this post with the list of sets below.
All these pokemons can either beat chansey and avalugg on their own or cripple them enough for a team member to finish the job.

Let's talk about the pokemons that don't need help to beat the core first.
Gengar is one of the hardest pokemon to wall in the format thanks to nasty plot. Shadow Ball + Focus Blast is unresisted and poison type is amazing offensively meaning it can hit a lot of pokemons super effectively and will be neutrally effective at worse. It can obviously one-shot avalugg as long as it doesn't have its sturdy active and shadow ball is seriously threatening to chansey.
+2 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 332-392 (47.2 - 55.7%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO

Next (And last for this part) is Dracozolt. Band dracozolt can deal crazy amounts of damage to both pokemons. Band with adamant OHKOs chansey and both band jolly and band adamant 2HKOs Avalugg. You can always carry choice scarf but adamant only has a small chance of 2HKOing avalugg and jolly can only 3HKO. However, it can for sure achieve something with spike support. It's important to keep in mind that dracozolt is walled by lightning rod or volt absorb users such as rhyperior and zeraora.
252+ Atk Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Now let's talk about the pokemons that struggle a bit more with breaking the core.
Band Urshifu deals crazy amounts of damage but not enough to 2HKO avalugg. It will need chip damage or spikes to be able to 2HKO it.
252+ Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg on a critical hit: 150-177 (38 - 44.9%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

Porygon-Z is a special case. Chansey can wall its life orb tri-attacks but, PZ has about 75% chance to 2HKO with a +2 Uproar. +4 Hyper Beam also one-shots chansey. The Choice scarf set's goal is to trick away chansey's eviolite and set up in its face. Tri attack has a 90% chance to 2hko after 1 nasty plot if eviolite is gone. Porygon-Z has a lot of options for its sets such as substitute to block statuses from chansey, recover to stay healthy while setting up or magic coat to bounce chansey's statuses back at it.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Porygon-Z Uproar vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 333-393 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

Togekiss is a pretty obvious stall-breaker : Set up with nasty plot and then flinch your opponent until they get KO'd. It does struggle against chansey but you are able to take it out with a bit of luck.
+2 252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 147-174 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Band Mamoswine is a physical attacker that can hit avalugg super effectively. Funnily enough, it actually struggles against chansey more since you'll want to lock yourself into icicle crash for avalugg. With adamant and 1 layer of spikes however, it is nearly guaranteed to 2HKO chansey.
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 304-358 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Marowak-a is here to represent both itself and its Kantonian cousin. Swords dance poltergeist 2HKOs avalugg. Avalugg has the ability to roar marowak away before it gets its second hit in however. Avalanche has a slight chance to 1HKO marowak after an attack so you could get taken out if you were chipped beforehand. No matter what happens, Marowak should be able to weaken avalugg enough to let a teammate finish the job.
+2 252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 262-309 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The final mon in this category is venusaur. Venusaur is only usable for sun teams but it is a good way to take care of chansey + lugg. Avalugg falls quickly to venusaur's special attacks but chansey will be a bit harder to take out. Immunity to toxic, Growth increasing your attack and power whip should be enough to take it out. Your venusaur may be in bad shape after taking chansey out due to life orb recoil and seismic toss.
+2 4 Atk Life Orb Venusaur Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 378-446 (53.7 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Next up are 3 pokemons that can't take out chansey + lugg but that can be incredibly helpful in crippling them for your other pokemons to easily finish off.

Cloyster is pretty fun as a defensive spiker and will have a lot of opportunities to set up spikes due to its great physical bulk. It also has ice beam so it won't let avalugg spin for free.

Roserade is the second important spike setter of the format. On top of that, sleep powder and leech seed can seriously annoy both pokemons and will leave them weakened.

The last pokemon is tangrowth. Tangrowth can force chansey out since it's a special attacker that avalugg will fear. After forcing chansey out, tangrowth can knock off chansey's eviolite and its job is done. The rocky helmet set can also use sleep powder and leech seed to be annoying like roserade.


And that's all the good sets that can beat the chansey-lugg core. There are other, more niche sets such as ice beam tauros but they're not worth discussing since they are outclassed overall. Keep in mind these sets are useful outside of breaking chansey+lugg cores since they can break other cores or straight up sweep. I hope I have convinced some people that this core isn't that hard to break and that using other playstyles than the bulky teams that come with using chansey+lugg may be viable.

Edit: I considered the format with the tours plaza ban but there are some pokemons that can take on the core quite easily in the banned list

Diggersby hits hard and even avalugg can't wall it. Avalugg's best option is to roar it away which would also let diggersby come back in for free.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Weavile is like mamoswine, a strong physical ice type that can hit avalugg super effectively.
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 258-312 (65.4 - 79.1%) -- approx. 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 369-435 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- approx. 2HKO

Alakazam can set up with nasty plot and has psyshock so it beats chansey easily.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 464-546 (66 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Edit 2 : Due to recent discoveries/debates I guess I'll have to add taunt + Set up users. I'll also take this opportunity to add sets for pokemons I hadn't shown.
Cinderace with Electro Ball is able to take out one of chansey or avalugg but won't have enough health to take out the other one. Taunt can stop chansey from healing.
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 240-283 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Libero Cinderace Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Comfey can use taunt to stop chansey from healing. It'll mostly heal using draning kiss or synthesis while it sets up.
+2 252+ SpA Triage Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 84-100 (11.9 - 14.2%) -- possible 8HKO (20.8 - 24.8% recovered)

Obstagoon can set up with bulk up to become strong enough to take out avalugg. You may take quite a bit of damage from your burn or avalanche while setting up, however.
+2 252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 246-289 (62.4 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hydreigon can set up with nasty plot and heal with roost while stopping phazing or toxic with taunt.
+6 252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 322-381 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO

Rillaboom can take a lot of recoil damage from wood hammer due to chansey and avalugg having a lot of health and they'll also be able to deal decent damage. Regardless, it can 2HKO after a life orb boosted swords dance... which is not far away from what band does...
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Grassy Terrain: 325-383 (82.4 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rillaboom: 136-160 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
 
Last edited:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Claw
I made this for Avalugg, and shadow claw helps deal with chansey, which usually walls it. It's got the best draco meteor, only resisted by niche mons like Haxorus, aside from Dragapult. I think this will help against stall (which is powered by Avalugg and Chansey).

(Also I suck so maybe this is bad advice)
 
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Claw
I made this for Avalugg, and shadow claw helps deal with chansey, which usually walls it. It's got the best draco meteor, only resisted by niche mons like Haxorus, aside from Dragapult. I think this will help against stall (which is powered by Avalugg and Chansey).
4 Atk Kyurem Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 170-200 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- 97.9% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 202-238 (28.7 - 33.8%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO
It won't work. Kyurem is still a great special attacker though so if you build your team to pressure and take out chansey, it could work well.

Edit : Dragon Dance kyurem could actually work well!
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 258-303 (65.4 - 76.9%) -- approx. 2HKO (Ice beam OHKOs)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 434-512 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
I wish it was that simple...
Though taunt can be beneficial and can help some pokemons in this matchup so I'll try to see how it could help. It could help rillaboom in killing avalugg but grassy terrain heals lugg and there's a lot of recoil from wood hammer, life orb if its the item you decided to go for and rocky helmet if avalugg is holding it. Alakazam, Weavile and Gengar already break the core and don't need taunt. Urshifu takes too much damage from avalanche and doesn't deal enough back so it doesn't even win without choice band. Obstagoon also takes too much damage back for too little damage dealt. The problem with taunt is that chansey and avalugg aren't passive and can deal solid damage and not being able to use a choiced item means you give them more time to damage you. Now if there is one pokemon it could open a niche to, it would be calm mind comfey since it passively heals by damaging chansey and avalugg. With leftovers and high HP investment, it could out-heal chansey's seismic tosses with draining kiss after a few calm mind. But yeah taunt doesn't seem to help that much especially since switching resets it.

Edit: I guess I'll have to add that comfey is not the only pokemon who can taunt into set up. Obstagoon and rillaboom can also do this so they can find use in it. This does take 2 moveslots though so rillaboom may prefer having access to grassy glide and u-turn instead of taunt and swords dance.
 
Last edited:
Axgwd is based
I guess I'll have to add that comfey is not the only pokemon who can taunt into set up.
+6 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 218-257 (31 - 36.5%) -- 65.3% chance to 3HKO you should also add that comfey isn't that good

jokes aside

I wish it was that simple...
Infact it is pretty simple, Taunt is a great move esp in Inverse. It breaks a lot of cores like ChansLugg and P2 Roserade, Stops set up from Frosmoth and Reuniclus for example, allows pokemon to set up after a Taunt like Obstagoon or Gyarados and stops crippling moves like Toxic. There are so many pokemon that benefit from Taunt in OU aswell like Urshifu, Hydreigon, Zeraora just to name a few. Easily top ten best moves in the game.
 
+6 252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Comfey Draining Kiss vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 218-257 (31 - 36.5%) -- 65.3% chance to 3HKO you should also add that comfey isn't that good
The good part here is the healing. (54.3 - 63.9% recovered)

Infact it is pretty simple, Taunt is a great move esp in Inverse. It breaks a lot of cores like ChansLugg and P2 Roserade, Stops set up from Frosmoth and Reuniclus for example, allows pokemon to set up after a Taunt like Obstagoon or Gyarados and stops crippling moves like Toxic. There are so many pokemon that benefit from Taunt in OU aswell like Urshifu, Hydreigon, Zeraora just to name a few. Easily top ten best moves in the game.
I was talking in context to beating chans-lugg. They're able to deal at least decent damage so taunt isn't beating this core without anything else.
 
The good part here is the healing. (54.3 - 63.9% recovered)


I was talking in context to beating chans-lugg. They're able to deal at least decent damage so taunt isn't beating this core without anything else.
i wouldnt really say decent damage as most lugg sets are rapid spin, toxic, recover and roar so it cant deal much damage, also taunt also prevents the twos recovery moves along with them trying to set up hazards as some chansey sets/lugg sets will do, it also allows you to set up blocking lugg's roar and chansey while yes is able to do solid damage is set up fodder for something like reunicluss, if you manage to get an iron defense and a calm mind up with reun then it does one shot lugg, the sets you shared while they are good are weak to the move taunt
 
i wouldnt really say decent damage as most lugg sets are rapid spin, toxic, recover and roar so it cant deal much damage, also taunt also prevents the twos recovery moves along with them trying to set up hazards as some chansey sets/lugg sets will do, it also allows you to set up blocking lugg's roar and chansey while yes is able to do solid damage is set up fodder for something like reunicluss, if you manage to get an iron defense and a calm mind up with reun then it does one shot lugg, the sets you shared while they are good are weak to the move taunt
Avalugg beats a LOT more pokemons with avalanche or body press over Toxic. And I did agree that taunt into set up works. However, I can't find too many pokemons who can find use in it. Now if you run taunt without set up, here's what happens.

252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 123-145 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 75.5% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Obstagoon: 147-174 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

252+ Atk Life Orb Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg on a critical hit: 130-153 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu: 148-175 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 126-150 (17.9 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Toxtricity: 100-100 (34.3 - 34.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Cinderace Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 273-321 (69.2 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (You beat avalugg anyway)
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 187-222 (62.1 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 107-126 (15.2 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 0 HP Hydreigon: 100-100 (30.7 - 30.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 135-161 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Crawdaunt: 338-398 (126.5 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 94-112 (23.8 - 28.4%) -- 96.7% chance to 4HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 296-350 (109.2 - 129.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I want to make this very clear that I DO agree that taunt + Set up works. It's just that there aren't many pokemons that will now beat chans-lugg with taunt and set up. From what I've seen, only comfey and obstagoon get a lot of benefit out of it with rillaboom and hydreigon also working but going way out of their way to be able to do that (Rillaboom no longer running choiced and using 2 moveslots on taunt + swords dance and Hydreigon using taunt and probably roost and high hp investment). I'm not disagreeing that taunt is a good move, it's just that there are better and more efficient ways to beat chans-lugg.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top