Metagame Inverse

MAMP

mamp
is a Pre-Contributor
:sm/diggersby:
Hi everyone, I'd like to announce that the council has decided to ban Diggersby. Despite no longer being able to use Return in this generation, its complete lack of switchins and access to Swords Dance largely invalidates bulkier teams and Quick Attack makes it still quite threatening against offense as well. Given a single turn to set up, Diggersby could easily clean through a wide range of teams. We wanted to get this out of the way now for OM Snake Draft, in which Inverse is a format (and which you can sign up for here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-snake-draft-iii-player-signups.3667468). This metagame is still somewhat undeveloped so we will be using the Snake Draft as a sort of testing ground to see where else tiering action needs to be taken. In particular, the council has our collective eyes on Alakazam, Obstagoon, and Rillaboom.
 
Diggersby ban was necessary since it was one of the most ridiculous pokemon in the meta.
Against walls
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 352-417 (83.8 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Against Bulky faster pokemons
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Obstagoon: 218-257 (66.6 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem: 239-282 (61.1 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As for the pokemons being watched, I believe Rillaboom is a massive threat to teambuilding since teams without a decently bulky grass resist don't stand a chance. And I'm only talking about the choice band set. Swords dance can potentially break some resists.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon in Grassy Terrain: 226-268 (53.8 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro in Grassy Terrain: 238-281 (60.4 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

Alakazam is obviously a threat with nearly unresisted coverage, nasty plot and the ability to hit special walls such as chansey with psyshock. Magic guard with either focus sash or life orb is also quite the problem. While I don't have much experience using or playing against alakazam, in theory the sash set seems to be able to consistently take one kill. I do believe bulky fighting types with mach punch or dragon darts dragapult can stop that but a lot of teams don't have these tools. There does seem to be ways to deal with it though and some of these sets haven't been tested yet so maybe conkeldurr can break out in the meta or something.
+2 252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 213-252 (60.6 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 190-224 (75.6 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obstagoon... I'm not so sure about. I haven't used it but I've played against it a few times. Its speed isn't good enough. Being outsped by urshifu, gengar, dragapult and alakazam is a big problem since all those pokemons destroy you. Burn chipping you down is also a problem and being locked to one item makes you predictable and vulnerable. It also isn't getting through strong walls like Avalugg though a taunt+bulk up set can let it win and I'm guessing this is the reason it could be banned. Unresisted STAB facade with guts also seems crazy on paper but remember that obstagoon only has 90 base attack. Urshifu can use Choice band with STABs only slightly less powerful than obstagoon's but with a crazy 130 base attack and higher base speed. Overall, Obstagoon is outsped by important pokemons, is chipped by burn damage and is basically locked to its flame orb with a base attack that doesn't make it too devastating. Unresisted facade is strong but I don't think it's better than any other breaker or makes people use weird sets/pokemons to counter it.

Now for pokemons that I think should be watched out for
.
Choice band dracozolt seems to have no switch-ins. The only pokemons who can survive 2 bolt beaks are really bulky resists or pokemons with lightning rod or volt absorb. Well hustle lets outrage 1-2HKO them all. Now scarf does have switch-ins but it's still really hard to switch-into without a bulky resist like cloyster or slowbro.
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 240-283 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 220-259 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recover
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 312-368 (98.4 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Dracozolt Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cloyster: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gengar is very similar to alakzam : Nasty plot with unresisted coverage and good speed. Sludge wave hitting a lot of types super effectively doesn't help things either. Just like alakazam, it can break through chansey thanks to STAB shadow ball. It could for sure struggle to break through special walls that don't have weaknesses to its attacks such as goodra. There seems to be better ways to take care of it than alakazam and it's a bit slower so it could be handleable. Gengar can dominate slow teams though so make sure to have a pokemon with good speed.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 188-224 (48.9 - 58.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 432-510 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Lastly, Assault vest tangrowth seems to be able to beat a lot of offensive pokemons thanks to its grass STAB hitting many types super effectively. It also possesses sludge bomb to hit ground and rock types which are 2 of the 3 grass resists. Knock off can be very helpful especially with chansey and porygon2 being common defensive pokemons. With diggersby being banned and rillaboom and dracozolt also being potentially banned, I believe tangrowth could become quite hard to deal with. Even if your opponent can play around your tangrowth, it's still a good defensive pivot that can threaten many pokemons and force your opponent to switch out. A rocky helmet set is also an option and sleep powder/leech seed are powerful moves if used well as they can cripple opposing pokemons. Regenerator negating chip and making sure you're always healthy means you can counter multiple offensive threats without the fear of not having enough health to take them on. It doesn't help that the types that can threaten it aren't very common. Electric is only used by dracozolt and zeraora, ground types are usually defensive pokemons, are threatened by sludge bomb and earthquake also isn't as common in inverse and grass types are threatened by tangrowth. (Edit: I forgot about the water weakness but I guess that's just how rare it is)
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. +1 0 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 332-392 (106.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 272-322 (67.3 - 79.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
168+ SpA Tangrowth Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragapult: 328-386 (103.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 341-403 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ SpA Tangrowth Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 452-536 (173.1 - 205.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Hey, I came up with a Gengar set that will 1v1 Chansey 100% of the time. Here it is:
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wonder Room
- Mean Look
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
It's job is solely to remove Chansey, or else I would have focus blast. It can easily switch in to a toxic or seismic toss, and mean look Chansey. From there it will never be able to be KO'd due to pain split being Chansey's nightmare. Wonder room + shadow ball can always 3hko chansey, and if it can't 2hko, a spdef drop is inevitable.
Make sure to tell me how much this sucks and why I should never offer advice <3
 
Hey, I came up with a Gengar set that will 1v1 Chansey 100% of the time. Here it is:
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wonder Room
- Mean Look
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
It's job is solely to remove Chansey, or else I would have focus blast. It can easily switch in to a toxic or seismic toss, and mean look Chansey. From there it will never be able to be KO'd due to pain split being Chansey's nightmare. Wonder room + shadow ball can always 3hko chansey, and if it can't 2hko, a spdef drop is inevitable.
Make sure to tell me how much this sucks and why I should never offer advice <3
Mean look and pain split are cool but you don't need wonder room to beat chansey. Most sets are full defense and gengar 2HKOes chansey after 1 nasty plot. I'd prefer using a regular gengar set since it works well either way.
 
So, my initial analysis:
  • Threats:
    • Fighting Type attacks are super effective against 6 types, but resisted by 5. With the popularity of Body Press, players will need to plan ahead for that kind of coverage.
    • Bug Type attacks hit 7 types supereffectively, while being resisted by only 3. Since some of the best Bug moves (Bug Buzz and Leech Life) can be learned by a myriad of mons, a combination of Bug and Fighting attacks will cover most mons you will face.
    • Rounding out the trio of heavy hitters is Grass with 7 super effective hits and 3 resists. The amount of mons that can learn Giga Drain, Wood Hammer, Power Whip and Solarbeam/blade means that it is great coverage for mons that resist the first two types.
  • Defensive:
    • Rock has a total of 5 resistances: Fighting, Ground, Grass, Water and Steel, and is neutral to Bug, so counters the three big offensive threats nicely. The downside is its four weaknesses to Fire, Poison, Flying and Normal.
    • Grass in a similar boat, 5 resists and 4 weak. Its resistances include Flying, Poison, Bug, Fire and Ice, while being weak to Grass, Electric, Water and Ground.
    • Ice is a god-tier typing in Inverse, with 4 resistances to Fighting, Rock, Steel and Fire, and only one weakness to itself.
  • Bad typings:
    • Steel by far is the worst defensive typing, 11 weaknesses and only 3 resists make typical walls sitting ducks.
    • Poison isn't far behind, with 5 weaknesses and 2 resists.
    • Electric has 3 weaknesses to Flying, Electric and Steel, with only one resist to Ground.
    • Ironically, despite Normal being a great offensive typing due to the lack of resistances, as a defensive typing it only resists Fighting, and is hit neutral by everything else except Ghost, which is super effective.
  • Sample Typings:
    • Shuckle's Rock/Bug typing gives it 2 weaknesses to Normal and Poison, and 3 resistances to Rock, Steel and Water.
    • Toxapex, formally one of the best walls in OU finds itself with only 3 resistances and a whopping 8 weaknesses.
    • Ferrothorn goes from a bulky pain in the ass to trivial with a massive 10 weaknesses and a quad weakness to Grass, while only resisting Fire and Fighting.
    • Volcarona gets a major nerf with 6 weaknesses, but now has the bonus of shrugging off SR with a 4x resistance.
    • Cobalion and Lucario with the Fighting/Steel typing become massive targets with 9 weaknesses and only 3 resists.
    • Lapras and Cloyster have some of the best defensive typings yet, with four resistances to Fighting, Rock, Grass and Electric while only being weak to Water and Ice.
    • Kyurem is still going to be a powerhouse with its 5 resistances and 3 weaknesses, and since Dragon hits Steel and Fairy supereffectively can now use its myriad of Dragon type moves with full effectiveness
    • Malamar has a brilliant typing giving it only one weakness (Psychic), but its moveset means it doesn't have the ability to properly exploit its position.
    • Tyranitar has the most extreme type matchups, 7 weaknesss and 7 resistances but massive coverage could make it a wildcard.
    • Rotom-Frost has only 3 weaknesses, Flying Electric and Ice, while having 3 resists and an immunity from Levitate.
    • Frosmoth could be a solid special defensive wall with its Ice Scales ability and 4 resists, while only being weak to Ground, Grass and Ice.
 
I guess I'll write some opinions about some pokemons.

:alakazam: isn't unstoppable but it's pretty dangerous no matter what. It's pretty hard to deal with consistently without losing a pokemon. It's not the most overpowered pokemon at the moment, but it's a threat.
Alakazam @ Focus Sash/Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Grass Knot

After some thought, :gengar: seems better than :alakazam:. That's because gengar doesn't need to set up with nasty plot to be threatening while alakazam does. Gengar's sludge wave hits many types super effectively and can threaten many pokemons, getting kills without needing to take the risk to setup. This is also the reason why gengar can use choice sets; it doesn't need setup to work.
Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Trick

:scolipede: has potential but is completely stopped by rillaboom at the moment. Rillaboom's grassy glide is the most common move to revenge kill it. It could also be weak to mach punch or vacuum wave but those aren't move that are seen very often. Swords dance with speed boost lets you easily beat teams that aren't prepared for it. It still struggles to set up because it's very frail but if you can find the opportunity, it can pay off. I found that avalugg and slowbro can wall it thanks to their good physical defense and not being weak to any of scolipede's moves. However, Scolipede's true strength comes from its coverage. With poison jab, megahorn and earthquake, it can hit 11/18 types super effectively. I've seen games where it takes out half of the opponent's team without even setting up swords dance because its coverage is that good. It's pretty dangerous and if rillaboom is banned, I think it could become a good pokemon.
Scolipede @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake

:goodra: isn't a pokemon I've seen people discuss much despite being a pretty good one. Assault vest lets you survive special hits with ease making goodra one of the best answers to gengar, special dragapults and other special threats. Sap sipper lets you take the many grass moves of the format letting you deal with tangrowth, rillaboom and roserade rather easily. Its coverage is also great letting it choose moves to hit certain targets. For example, sludge bomb can deal with gengar and power whip can take out roserade. While all of these attributes are nice, let's not forget goodra's weaknesses. Low physical bulk and no recovery makes it so you have to play carefully with it. I think it can fill a really nice role on a team that needs it.
Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Power Whip

Defensive :cloyster: is one of my favorite set but I haven't talked about it much so here we go. The main reason you'll find to not use defensive cloyster is that avalugg is just better. While avalugg does have better bulk, recovery and roar, cloyster's movepool lets it function quite well. The three main moves are teleport, spikes and toxic spikes. Teleport is really good. Avalugg usually makes you lose momentum whereas cloyster can let you get right back into attacking with teleport. Your physical bulk is good enough to teleport safely on physical attackers. Another thing you can do instead of teleporting is setting up spikes or toxic spikes. I've mentionned in my post about how to beat chans-lugg how big of a difference spikes can make because a lot of attacks are just a bit too weak to 2HKO or 1HKO. Spikes also helps pokemons like gengar and scolipede OHKO tangrowth after a boost letting them keep up with their sweep. The fact that it can also deal serious damage to the most common spinner being avalugg thanks to ice beam makes it a good pokemon to set up spikes and keep them up. Lastly, Cloyster's electric and grass resists are more useful than avalugg's steel and rock resists which are never seen. Cloyster can deal with rillaboom, dracozolt, zeraora or tangrowth more easily than avalugg thanks to those interesting resists. No recovery makes me believe closyter fits better on more offensive teams while avalugg works on fatter teams.
Cloyster @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes/Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Teleport
- Ice Beam/Surf

I'll add some teams where I've used these pokemons so you can understand their roles in a team and what potential teammates could go with them.


I'll probably keep on editing this post with new analysis whenever I'm bored and it starts here.

:rhyperior: is probably the best pokemon to beat some of the most dangerous threats the current meta has to offer most importantly, rillaboom. Thanks to lightning rod, it can also stop zeraora and it makes dracozolt wonder if it should use something else than bolt beak. Other than that, it can stop other less important but still threatening physical attackers such as shell smash cloyster, scarf urshifu, melmetal or dragon dance kyurem. It's also the best teammate for tangrowth since it resists every type that hits tangrowth super effectively. It also carries stealth rock, roar and scorching sands to add utility to your team. Now rhyperior has some obvious weaknesses notably being weak to the ever present poison type and having poor special defense. It's still worth a slot on multiple teams thanks to currently being the best anti-meta mon.
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scorching Sands
- Stone Edge
- Roar/Avalanche

:Porygon-Z: is the best offensive normal type in inverse in my opinion. The scarf set can outspeed and OHKO dragapult and gengar who are both great offensive pokemons and it can also revenge kill weakened zeraora, band urshifu and alakazam. The nasty plot set can deal some of the highest damage in inverse and breaks any slower pokemon with an unresisted STAB. The interesting part about PZ is how much it destroys slow, bulky teams. Unresisted STAB means it can run tri attack as its only attacking move and have other moves such has nasty plot, substitute, recover or even hyper beam to beat more defensive teams. Scarf PZ can simply trick its scarf onto chansey and set up to take it out. Porygon-Z is one of the most brutal pokemon if used well and I highly recommend trying to one-shot a chansey with hyper beam if you're a chansey hater.
Porygon-Z @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Recover/Substitute/Magic Coat/Hyper Beam

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Tri Attack
- Substitute/Magic Coat/Hyper Beam
- Recover

:melmetal: is potentially really good but is in a tough spot at the moment. Melmetal can hit insanely hard and 1-2HKO any pokemon who doesn't resist double iron bash. However, it's walled by rhyperior and avalugg, two amazing pokemons that you are more likely to see than not. It can run ice beam to be able to 2HKO avalugg with it but locking yourself into a move that weak is basically like giving your opponent a free switch after hitting it. Melmetal can chip down Rhyperior since it doesn't have recovery but that's not a plan that works often. Now, if we exclude these two hard-counter, melmetal has very good matchups overall. It can use ice punch to hit less bulky ice types and darkest lariat to hit fairies and Tyranitar. Melmetal's bulk is also good enough to take super effective hits and retaliate with powerful double iron bashes. Basically, melmetal is a very strong but inconsistent pokemon that would need team support to succeed. With enough effort, I'm sure it could be used succesfully.
Melmetal @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Darkest Lariat

:rillaboom: is insanely hard to stop without counters to it. Unless you have avalugg or a bulky grass resist such as cloyster, slowbro, hippowdon, rhyperior or quagsire, rillaboom is going to take out most of your pokemons. Even if you do have the right counters to it, rillaboom can just click u-turn to chip and switch. Even then, all of these except quagsire and rhyperior get 2hkoed by a swords dance boosted wood hammer. As for offensive counter-play, rillaboom's grassy glide is really powerful and can take out pokemons such as alakazam, gengar, cinderace, porygon-z, scolipede or dragapult and it can also finish off weakened zeraora or urshifu. It can easily take out the dangerous tangrowth, volcarona or dracozolt and it makes sure flying types are never seen. It's very easy for rillaboom to almost win the game on its own after taking out or weakening the opponent's grass resist. Rillaboom's bulk is also quite good at 100/90/70. I've seen it survive a grassy surge boosted grass knot from alakazam. In short, rillaboom hits incredibly hard, has a very strong priority, has an amazing offensive STAB and can take a hit or two meaning rillaboom can do anything it wants to. Rillaboom restricts teambuilding and can be a problem even if you have a decent counter to it. I believe it is a problem in the current metagame and it's not rare to end up with a rillaboom speed tie since it's so incredibly hard to counter or even check.
Rillaboom @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Rillaboom @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- U-turn/Drain Punch/Knock Off
- Swords Dance

:dragapult: is an important pokemon because of its speed and its versatility. Having a fast pokemon like dragapult is very important since it can revenge-kill multiple pokemons who would be harder to check defensively such as alakazam, gengar or urshifu. It also has multiple set choices to potentially mix up the opponent and it can u-turn to give you the advantage. The dragon dance set is quite powerful because dragon is only resisted by dragon meaning pult's dragon dart is very spammable. Phantom Force lets you hits the normal types and the last slot was usually a move to hit dragons such as scald or thunderbolt. However, Draco Meteor seems like it would work better since it KOs avalugg after a bit of chip from dragon darts on the switch. This would let it get rid of the biggest threat to its sweep and become the threat it used to be pre-dlc. I only had the idea of adding draco meteor to bait and beat lugg today and haven't tested it so maybe it's not the way to go but it seems reliable enough. As for the specs set, it's the fastest draco meteor spammer and dragon only being resisted by dragon means draco meteor spam is a good strategy. Dragapult also has access to fire, water or electric coverage to hit those dragons super effectively. Shadow ball lets you hit normals and u-turn lets you pivot. Dragapult is an overall really solid choice for speed control, can fit on many teams and is a threat you should not underestimate.
Dragapult @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Phantom Force
- Draco Meteor/Thunderbolt/Scald

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunderbolt/Scald
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn
 
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I'm wondering what these type mechanics do about certain moves. For example:

Flying Press – It has been confirmed that its mechanics do not actually add Flying to its typing, but rather combines Flying's effectiveness with the base move's type. Ordinarily, if the move somehow got its Type changed to Flying, it would be double ineffective against Types that resist Flying and quadruply effective against Types that were weak to Flying.
I am wondering how that would play into this. Does it keep the ordinary effectiveness of Flying type, or is that inverted as well?

Freeze-Dry – Of course, it is always super-effective against Water. However, would that mean it deals 4x damage to Water now that Ice is super-effective against Water as well?
Conversion 2 – "Changes user's type to resist target's last move." :smogthink: Does it factor?


On a different note, the Tinted Lens Ability…
I guess it works like normal, detecting if the move did ineffective damage or not, right?

…What about the Anticipation Ability, though?


Lastly, field effects: What do Rain and Sunlight do to effectiveness of Fire and Water? Have healing processes, such as Shore Up, Morning Sun, Synthesis, Moonlight, etc. been affected?
 
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Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor
Moderator
The original gen 5 mod in-game was very simple, so Conversion 2 remained the same as in regular play, as do weather effects. Not too sure about Anticipation. The other new gen 6 stuff likely hasn't been modified either.
 
How does offence deal with rillaboom

Many offensive pokemon risk a ohko/2hko from grassy glide alone, and the few typings that resist it are either obsolete offensively or water, and as a balance player having my counterplay be reduced to "sit in front of it with lugg" isnt that fun
 
How does offence deal with rillaboom

Many offensive pokemon risk a ohko/2hko from grassy glide alone, and the few typings that resist it are either obsolete offensively or water, and as a balance player having my counterplay be reduced to "sit in front of it with lugg" isnt that fun
Exactly why rillaboom is being suspected for a ban.
For counters, I guess the closest thing you have on offence is urshifu-rapid strike. Slowbro, defensive cloyster, hippowdon, rhyperior and avalugg can all deal with it too. Goodra can absorb hits with sap sipper but gets 2hkoed by u-turn and knock off.
 
Why Rillaboom ban? Couldn't you do a Grassy Surge ban instead?
Usually, you ban a Pokemon before you ban the ability it relies on. It's mostly clear that another Grassy Surge user, such as Thwackey, would not be broken in Inverse due to its lower power level. On top of that, Grassy Surge isn't an inherently uncompetitive ability, such as Shadow Tag.

Congrats on being Leader's Choice! I'm definitely interested in checking out Inverse, even though it seems like a surprisingly big brain meta that might be hard to break into.
 

Fissure

Just a little more
is a Tiering Contributor
Figured I'd drop the team I've been using on ladder in case anyone wants to use it to start out playing with. It has some flaws, but I got to 20-0 with it.
inverse.PNG (click me)
Basically Rhydon tanks Rillaboom's attacks (I saw OM use a mixed set with boomburst, but it isn't really a thing yet). Rhyperior might be better, but I didn't feel like running calcs so I just assumed eviolite was better than lefties since i have a wish passer on the team. EVs are an old NU spread cause I was too lazy to make a new one. Lightning Rod is for the electric immunity.

Blissey just eats special hits. It has wish, but i never clicked it in the 20 games I played so I am considering replacing it with something like teleport to give me some kind of momentum on my walls. Just copied the current OU dex EV spread. I have Blissey over Chansey because I hate stealth rock.

Haxorus just clicks first impression and sometimes Outrage.

Ban Rillaboom. Carried the team; just clicks grassy glide and win.

Lanturn is only there to help with my water weakness. I haven't seen any rain teams yet, but I know they are out there. It clicks volt turn sometimes I guess. EVs are an old NU spread cause I was too lazy to make a new one.

Avalugg eats physical attacks. Boots is to keep sturdy alive.

You need to watch out for Gengar, Slowbro, Arcanine and I guess defensive set-up mons like Reuniclus. Rillaboom is the win-con so don't sack it.


EDIT: Make Haxorus adamant. It gets you kos against slowbro easier.
 
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Time for me to share a team as well.
This team is based around rillaboom. Band can beat a lot of stuff but most teams are prepared for rillaboom so the other offensive pokemons are here to beat its counter. Scolipede can hit rock and ground types with poison jab and can deal decent damage to water types with aqua tail. Expert belt could be swapped out for life orb but I like not getting recoil. The last slot isn't all that important, you could go with toxic spikes, swords dance or superpower instead of spikes. Rhyperior and goodra can switch-into most attacks together but they're both weak to fire and they don't have recovery so you can't take your time with this team. Zeraora can use knock off and volt switch to annoy chans-lugg and knock off and close combat can beat up a lot of offensive pokemons such as urshifu or gengar. Blaze kick is mostly here so you won't struggle as much against rhyperior. Finally, Porygon-Z is here for speed control and can take out many pokemons that are problematic to rillaboom by either using trick or just spamming tri-attack.
 

MAMP

mamp
is a Pre-Contributor
Announcement

:sm/magearna: :sm/cinderace:
OU has banned Magearna and Cinderace. However, the Inverse council does not feel that these Pokemon are especially problematic in Inverse, and thus they will remain legal.

As a slow Steel-type, Magearna is nearly unviable as its huge array of weaknesses cause it to struggle immensely to find opportunities to switch in or set up. It is walled by popular defensive Pokemon like Blissey, Porygon2, and SpDef Clefable, it's forced out by most of the metagame, and even after a Shift Gear boost Magearna is susceptible to a lot of common priority moves.

Cinderace is certainly very viable in Inverse, especially considering that it is no longer weak to Stealth Rock and thus doesn't need to run Heavy-Duty Boots. However, here it has a lot more reliable defensive counterplay, particularly in the form of Tangrowth and Avalugg. It also has a rough time against popular forms of speed control like Rillaboom and Dragapult. We will be keeping an eye on Cinderace going forward, but for now we don't feel that we need to follow OU's lead on it.
 

MAMP

mamp
is a Pre-Contributor
Announcement
:sm/rillaboom:

The council has decided to ban Rillaboom. In the first couple weeks of OM Snake Draft and on the ladder, Rillaboom has proven itself to be a flexible, dominant threat. Rillaboom's very powerful priority in Grassy Glide forces a ton of concessions from offensive teams. Most of the good fast Pokemon are easily revenge killed by Rillaboom and offense teams are forced to run one of just a small handful of checks to it (mainly Urshifu-RS, Rhyperior, or Cloyster), none of which are reliable in the long-term. Consistent defensive counterplay to Rillaboom is seriously limited as well: Grass is a great offensive typing, making switching into Rillaboom's Wood Hammer a challenging task. Combined with its access to Swords Dance, good coverage options like Knock Off and Drain Punch, and access to U-turn to chip down its checks, Rillaboom can be a nightmare for bulky teams to manage as well. Rillaboom is supremely threatening to all kinds of teams and places a significant strain on teambuilding. As such, we felt that Inverse would be better off without it.

Tagging The Immortal and Kris to implement this
 
Zarude appreciation post

Zarude is a really sexy mon in inverse. It's got great stats and has a lot of weaknesses, but also has a lot of resistances to make up for it. With Rillaboom banned it can likely cut a very nice offensive niche thanks to a great offensive typing and movepool, but up until now I've been using a pretty neat stallbreaker set

Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 212 HP / 80 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Power Whip
- Darkest Lariat

This set is a goddamn work of art. 101 HP subs to set up on Blissey or Chansey, enough speed to beat Volcarona, and Darkest Lariat lets you beat down Iron Defense Avalugg and CurseLax. And yeah it sets up subs easily on Avalugg, unless you are running Roar Avalugg in which case fuck you. I'm sure you could run CC for Slowbro or a Normal move or Rock slide (?) for Rhyperior but I expect both of those mons to drop off a little with Rillaboom gone.

I'm gonna look forward to using Zarude's more offensive sets, I think people will be underpreparing for physical Grass types with Rillaboom's ban
 
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Finally! Rillaboom was a major problem because it made offense almost impossible to play and it made a lot of flying or grass types really hard to use.
This opens up the room for many cool mons that would've never seen the light of day in rillaboom's shadow.

:tangrowth:
Tangrowth with assault vest is a solid check to a lot of offensive threats with its good bulk and the grass + poison coverage hitting many offensive pokemons such as dragapult, gengar, cinderace or volcarona. It struggles a bit more against the heavier hitters such as band urshifu and porygon-z but it's solid to answer offensive mons that are tough to deal with. There's also the rocky helmet check which will struggle against special attackers but can use sleep powder or leech seed to its advantage. Knock off and sludge bomb poison lets it be annoying to most defensive mons and knock off chansey's eviolite. Finally, regenerator negates chip and lets it deal with the threats it handles without fearing being too weakened to come back later.
Tangrowth @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpA / 84 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm

Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- Leech Seed

:thwackey:
Thwackey will take rillaboom's spot as a strong revenge killer. While its attack is significantly lower and it can't break past a lot of defensive pokemons, grassy glide is still powerful and can lets it take out pretty common offensive mons without much problem. Grass weaknesses and frail pokemons such as dragapult, gengar or alakazam are threatened by the eviolite set while the band set can take out bulkier grass weak pokemons such as kyurem and can take out weakened bulkier neutralities such as porygon-z, type changed cinderace, zeraora or urshifu. It can also cripple pokemons that can take its hits by using leech seed or knock off and grass knot gives it an option against avalugg. It could struggle against teams with a defensive grass resist though.
Thwackey @ Eviolite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot

Thwackey @ Eviolite
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Grass Knot

Zarude is another grass type that was outclassed and destroyed by rillaboom. Grassy terrain makes thwackey's grass type moves stronger than zarude's and also gives it grassy glide so zarude has to use what it has over thwackey: higher bulk and speed as well as a secondary stab and good coverage. Zarude higher speed and dark stab will let it be a problem to urshifu, hydreigon and obstagoon as long as you're running +speed. If you aren't, they will be the ones picking on zarude. It also gets perfect coverage for its dark stab thanks to close combat meaning it can smash ghost and psychic types regardless. Zarude has better bulk even after eviolite so it can switch-into attacks more easily. Zarude still has problems though, mainly being walled by water, ground and rock types as well as lugg. It can still shine due to being able to use multiple sets such as scarf, band or bulky set up.
Zarude @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Power Whip
- Darkest Lariat
- Close Combat
- U-turn

Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Taunt
- Darkest Lariat
- Drain Punch/Close Combat/Power Whip

:scolipede:
Scolipede was already a threat while rillaboom still existed but will be even better now. Swords dance with speed boost is already good but its dual stab hits 9/18 types super effectively and it still has room for coverage. Earthquake or aqua tail can work to hit grass types who resist both of its stabs. Non-swords dance sets using choice band or expert belt can be used since scolipede is still quite powerful without needing to set up thanks to its coverage. It also gets access to spikes and toxic spikes to stack hazards. One of the downside of scolipede is its frailty. Its HP stat is abysmal and it's defenses aren't good enough to make up for it. Its attack stat is also unimpressive so it'll have trouble breaking past walls that aren't weak to its attacks such as avalugg or slowbro. It's not an easy pokemon to use but if you know what you're doing, it could be pretty damn good.
Scolipede @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
- Earthquake

Scolipede @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
- Superpower

Scolipede @ Expert Belt
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poison Jab
- Megahorn
- Aqua Tail
- Spikes

:slowbro:
Slowbro isn't gaining anything from rillaboom's ban, it's gaining from the pokemons that will become more used after the ban. All of the pokemons listed above are countered by slowbro. Outside of that, it's also a great defensive pivot thanks to regenerator and teleport and can switch into most physical pokemons just like lugg. Slowbro is gonna be a staple on more offensive teams thanks to its ability to keep momentum and switch-into threats to offense.
Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Teleport
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Body Press
 
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Hey, I came up with a Gengar set that will 1v1 Chansey 100% of the time. Here it is:
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wonder Room
- Mean Look
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
It's job is solely to remove Chansey, or else I would have focus blast. It can easily switch in to a toxic or seismic toss, and mean look Chansey. From there it will never be able to be KO'd due to pain split being Chansey's nightmare. Wonder room + shadow ball can always 3hko chansey, and if it can't 2hko, a spdef drop is inevitable.
Make sure to tell me how much this sucks and why I should never offer advice <3


Replace wonder room with perish song and you've got the right idea.

I'd think Perish song is probably superior in every way, more viable against other threats, it will only take 3 turns, and you're not chipping away at your health-pack with shadow ball. Give it a try? Might be just what you needed?
 
Can someone tell me how good Frosmoth and Volca will be in inverse?
Volca has the ridiculous bug typing which adds to its sweeping powers (i guess) but its weak to 6 types so theres that. At least its not weak to rocks anymore...
Frosmoth has an incredible typing both offensively and defensively and it is basically ice Volcarona with lower stats and ice scales.
Both are two of my favorite mons but idk how they will match up in inverse.
 
Some people seem to be struggling with ChansLugg cores. If you are, then this Silvally-ghost set is for you.
Silvally-Ghost @ Ghost Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Ice Beam
- Swords Dance/Explosion
- U-turn

It will always 2HKO Chansey or Avalugg with multi-attack or ice beam respectively. And, it even lives a body press from Avalugg!

252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Ghost: 260-308 (78.5 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
192 SpA Silvally-Ghost Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64 Atk Silvally-Ghost Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 354-416 (50.3 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64 Atk Silvally-Ghost Multi-Attack vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Chansey: 866-1020 (123.1 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It honestly works surprisingly well.
 
Can someone tell me how good Frosmoth and Volca will be in inverse?
Volca has the ridiculous bug typing which adds to its sweeping powers (i guess) but its weak to 6 types so theres that. At least its not weak to rocks anymore...
Frosmoth has an incredible typing both offensively and defensively and it is basically ice Volcarona with lower stats and ice scales.
Both are two of my favorite mons but idk how they will match up in inverse.
At a surface level, they're both better offensively. The big problem is the meta. Chansey, blissey and grass types are incredibly common and giga drain isn't enough to get past the grasses and good luck getting past chansey or blissey. These pokemons are so common that volcarona and frosmoth, while being serious threats if set up, will struggle in many matchups.
 
Any samples teams? I'd love to try it, but I don't have the time to build a team.
I've got two pastes you can try:

The first team is pure offense, just keep a bit of momentum and let Urshifu drop everyone that comes your way. Zarude and obstagoon are great for anti-stall.

Toxtricity @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Sludge Wave
- Volt Switch

Obstagoon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Switcheroo
- Parting Shot

Urshifu-Rapid-Strike @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Unseen Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Surging Strikes
- Close Combat
- Body Slam

Zarude @ Leftovers
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Darkest Lariat
- Jungle Healing
- Bulk Up

Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- King's Shield

Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Night Slash
- Leech Life
- U-turn
- Dual Wingbeat



And the second team which is a tad more balanced, relies on whittling key threats down and then cleaning up with Scolipede or Keldeo. It does have a little trouble with chanseys though... - Kommo-o should probably have bullet proof, but i kept fighting indeedee, so i wanted a wall.

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Air Slash
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Flip Turn

Scolipede @ Expert Belt
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 Def / 232 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Poison Jab
- Megahorn
- Earthquake

Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Shadow Ball

Mamoswine @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off

Arcanine @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic
- Morning Sun
 
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