NOC JOAT 10 Game Thread [Completed, GG Mafia]

My Case Whooo
(LHF, more so than Ehmcee has gone for before I think)







------------------------D2
None, this is noteworthy. The fact that the banter & humour pretty much stopped after one sleep is interesting. As town he continues the banter longer, but as scum he dropped it in Assist Trophy quickly.

Dumbtells
These are consecutive and close together posts. That Ehmcee did the same thing last game (see below quote), but then didn't pick up the volley about the fact that he did the same thing last game stands out to me. He just did another dumbtell right after instead, ignoring that this is repeat behaviour from his scumgame in a way that is not also repeated in the town game really.



The hypo asking is fine IMO. This last came up in eli loves matrices but Ehmcee died N3 and this discourse happened D3, so I think it's NAI.

But I don't understand why Ehmcee asks whether people flip again. He did the same thing in Assist Trophy:

but hasn't done this in any game where he's town (I looked and am p sure I didn't miss it through the power of ctrl+F). It really seems like a clutching at straws to look lost and confused tactic. Like a "well if I were mafia I would ask this in scumchat instead, so asking in-thread is town points!" situation. That train of thought only actually comes to scum.
----------------------D2


I don't think this happens naturally. You get an alert when a tag happens. Either Ehmcee is sat there refreshing the game thread and not posting / contributing, or he saw the alert, ignored it, and went with the dumbtell. Once again this happened more in Assist Trophy than prior games (e.g. Werewolf his last townflipped game on here).

Full Content / Jokes I have Commentary On
Honestly I think this joke stands out. Primarily because of the experiences of last game, wherein Neon was basically considered clear in the later stages of the game (as town) which made it harder for Ehmcee to win. I don't think this really comes to mind from a town!Ehmcee POV; Neon's spreadsheet was not considered AI in the later stages of the game and he was considered town for a number of other reasons at that point. My feeling is that the more likely reason for this thought to come to mind is that Ehmcee is mafia again and doesn't want a rerun of Neon being immune to proper wagon momentum, so he's trying to nip that possibility in the bud.


I find this notable because at approx the same time and postcount in Werewolf Mafia, Ehmcee threw this together:


Now, my view is that there are more reads that could comprise a satisfactory reads list than there were at this point in Werewolf. And while the reads list came after more posts in the Smalltown thread as a whole, it came after fewer posts by Ehmcee:

Ehmcee's actual playstyle as town is making a reads list to collate their thoughts and communicate reads, especially reads they haven't really communicated yet in the thread. I find the lack of doing this this game notable. The game is over 24 hours old and 20 pages long, which is when Ehmcee has historically done this before. To instead say "oh I'm vibing reading is hard" is his mafia playstyle, by contrast.

However.... Ehmcee has posted "this is already turning out to be x" or "a y one" in 2/3 checked town games and 0/1 checked mafia games. Perhaps this is the only real meta tell he has LOL

Specific Mafia Strategy I Saw Ehmcee Do in Assist Trophy: Sucking Up To The Most Influential Players
Sucking up to AG (but this is sort of a BoD sitch because in-context it is jokey enough)




In particular, the reason I asked that question is because Celever/LS is the really easy answer to the question. It's the Level-1 deduction. And Ehmcee is not a player who is traditionally shy from a counter-hegemonic read as town, but as mafia last game he heavily went with the flow (except insofar as his buddies were concerned). In Assist Trophy Ehmcee on D1 made a very active effort to get townread by Fame, because he (quite correctly) identified that Fame was a player who was likely to live for a long time and potentially be quite influential. I think Ehmcee is likely attempting to do this with me and/or LS this game. Especially because no real reasoning was provided.

Either way it's a cop out answer because that's just volume telling lol. P sure Ehmcee has been advised against that before as town and I think those memories would kick in if he were town here too.


And I think it might also be the case here but less so. This is just trying to fit in gaming, ultimately.

Vote Ehmcee

Wanted to get deeper into this, because I think it's a very interesting iso of my games up to now, not necessarily even being wrong for a good amount of it, think you're just pulling out wrong conclusions out of it.

------------------------D2
None, this is noteworthy. The fact that the banter & humour pretty much stopped after one sleep is interesting. As town he continues the banter longer, but as scum he dropped it in Assist Trophy quickly.

Reading it back, i think this is fairly accurate to what my general vibe during games is, I like to be somewhat serious as town and drop jokes here and there (especially d1). Think my first maf game on here was somewhat stressful and led to me trying to appear the most helpful to town as possible, leading to being less jokey overall. Up to now the jokes in general are fairly in par with how my overall maf play is like.

Dumbtells:

These are consecutive and close together posts. That Ehmcee did the same thing last game (see below quote), but then didn't pick up the volley about the fact that he did the same thing last game stands out to me. He just did another dumbtell right after instead, ignoring that this is repeat behaviour from his scumgame in a way that is not also repeated in the town game really.


Not to actually sound sarcastic or anything, but I am genuinely this dumb. Initially thought we were just going for a one time cop, one time doctor, one time vigi as 3 different roles. Obviously looking back that'd be an insane setup for maf to have to deal with, but it was what i thought it meant, also wasn't looking at the amount of slots.

In regards to the smash thing, I genuinely did not make the connection to Smash Bros from the Assist Trophy title until I got my character, funnily enough it was an actual smash character since I was maf, which actually made me make the connection. This was somewhat why I was scared of it being a leak, because I def wouldn't have made the connection as fast if I had gotten an Assist Trophy character.

At this point I'm just using these to figure out what most acronyms/terminology means, and didn't find anything in regards to NOC, so just didn't know what it meant.
https://sc2mafia.fandom.com/wiki/Forum_Mafia_Terminology#N
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/19178-Mafia-Universe-Terminology

Tbh, i think it's just me trying to understand the setup better these last few games, Smalltown was obviously different due to roles being open, but for WW I was fairly sure already they'd be revealed on death. The main reason I was asking is that it would make sense for JOAT to flip if we were all discussing fake claiming about cop results d2, otherwise we'd have no idea who was telling the truth.

Also what does hypo mean please tell me ;-;


but hasn't done this in any game where he's town (I looked and am p sure I didn't miss it through the power of ctrl+F). It really seems like a clutching at straws to look lost and confused tactic. Like a "well if I were mafia I would ask this in scumchat instead, so asking in-thread is town points!" situation. That train of thought only actually comes to scum.

If I genuinely wanted to ask this question as town, how else should I do it? Would you rather me DM hosts about it instead? If I genuinely am confused about an aspect of setup how else am I supposed to get clarification?

I don't think this happens naturally. You get an alert when a tag happens. Either Ehmcee is sat there refreshing the game thread and not posting / contributing, or he saw the alert, ignored it, and went with the dumbtell. Once again this happened more in Assist Trophy than prior games (e.g. Werewolf his last townflipped game on here).

I got the alert tag, was just doing other stuff at the time and ignored it, which i guess you could see as being scummy, but was doing other stuff at the time.

Was mainly just confused at which post you were referring to as I believed you'd asked me another question preceding that post.
Now the question is do you have thoughts on anyone? :eyes:

I afterwards just figured you were talking about the most recent post, but was just genuinely not sure in the moment which one you were talking about.

Generally, I think most of my "dumbtells" are actually just me being dumb, and generally being still somewhat new to the whole forum mafia thing. I'm still learning about terminology as well as general setups, but I understand how a lot of it can appear scummy.

Honestly I think this joke stands out. Primarily because of the experiences of last game, wherein Neon was basically considered clear in the later stages of the game (as town) which made it harder for Ehmcee to win. I don't think this really comes to mind from a town!Ehmcee POV; Neon's spreadsheet was not considered AI in the later stages of the game and he was considered town for a number of other reasons at that point. My feeling is that the more likely reason for this thought to come to mind is that Ehmcee is mafia again and doesn't want a rerun of Neon being immune to proper wagon momentum, so he's trying to nip that possibility in the bud.

I think this is an interesting telling of my process, because the first time around that Neon made a spreadsheet, not only me but most people townread him in WW mafia. While he did write it in paper, which overall definitely boosted towncred an insane amount, I thought I'd just make the remark that this isn't AI at all, since it's been proven to just be how Neon organizes his thoughts on the maf game. Which I applaud btw, since I have not put in that level of effort apart from a few ISO posts, and this post i guess.

I'm surprised you think this is AI on my end tbh, was just making the observation (tbh i think neon up to now has been pretty towny)

On making a readlist, I've genuinely just put in a lot less effort this game compared to the first few. I'm frankly putting more effort into this post then the rest of my posts during this game combined. Been doing a few IRL things recently (even during the Assist Trophy Game) which made my commitment be a bit less than it usually was, but I do plan to make a readlist at some point either today or early day 2.

However.... Ehmcee has posted "this is already turning out to be x" or "a y one" in 2/3 checked town games and 0/1 checked mafia games. Perhaps this is the only real meta tell he has LOL

Tbh this usually happens when funny discourse is happening lol, iirc it happened when Psy was typing up a storm or this game when Zippy was making the whole world hate him.

tbh this is interesting. I don't think I tried sucking up to players last game? iirc most of my game plan was actually killing off influential players, as most of the playerbase seemed somewhat new / inactive. Last time I tried gaining a ton of towncred by literally fighting AG on his decision to try to force Whydon to promise the read was right. Last game I was entirely openwolfing during day 1, trying to appear as towny as possible by making that argument prominent. Think I'm playing fairly differently this time around, just by the fact I haven't posted that much at all.
You could argue I tried sucking up to Jalmont I guess? But that was because I was already on his townleans, so wanted to stick there.

Also, I was not sucking up to AG lol, just didn't want LS to get killed because of a joke

In particular, the reason I asked that question is because Celever/LS is the really easy answer to the question. It's the Level-1 deduction. And Ehmcee is not a player who is traditionally shy from a counter-hegemonic read as town, but as mafia last game he heavily went with the flow (except insofar as his buddies were concerned). In Assist Trophy Ehmcee on D1 made a very active effort to get townread by Fame, because he (quite correctly) identified that Fame was a player who was likely to live for a long time and potentially be quite influential. I think Ehmcee is likely attempting to do this with me and/or LS this game. Especially because no real reasoning was provided.

Either way it's a cop out answer because that's just volume telling lol. P sure Ehmcee has been advised against that before as town and I think those memories would kick in if he were town here too.

I think this is a fair point, you were looking for some in depth thoughts about towncores and reads, and I gave you the most surface level answer I probably could have given.

First of all, I genuinely townread you, you've been leading the charge in discussion this day phase and have been providing meanful interactions and have been asking for other players opinions, which in general just leads to helpful content.

As for LS, I liked their early game. Hard to explain, but a good part of it is probably some feeling that I just don't want her to get lynched again early? Probably not a correct way to think on my end, but with how the previous days have been, I'd rather take the chance to let her live a few more days even if she is maf.

Also I'm surprised you're comparing yourself to Fame here? Fame was not nearly as active as you are this game, and the main reason I was trying to get on Fame's side due to us both pushing against AG for locking the Whydon claim. I think these are vastly different reasons to be townreading players.



I think that was most of the important posts, gonna take a brain break now, so readlist actually wont come out for a bit. Will still be in thread tho
 
OK this post —> big Haruno push has made my head tilt like my dog trying to work out if I said “I need to go work” or “I need to go walk”
ZippyDoo200 Aura Guardian JALMONT

Thoughts on this? Im not understanding the jump from inactive -> scum wrt Haruno (and yes they are def just inactive not active lurking imo, this reread is confirming that)
I believe I previously said there's 4 mental categories I have right now. Posting but not contributing much is distinct from idling in it.

Haven't looked at p23 yet, catching up.
 
Idk why I’m being scumleaned by AG, where I feel like his reasoning is just “guys let’s play it safe and vote people with less content” same with his Haruno vote.
A good chunk of it is that the ones more active have universally seemed townie, trying to solve at the least.

And assuming 1 success before the end, 4 is my estimate for how many votes we have, thus 4 people in lean or worse.

______________________

I see Ehmcee has a lot of support for getting voted. I'd rather Haruno, and I don't want to take away 10+ hours to talk, so I'm not about to put him at 5/10 (not sure if that's hammer or just unbreakable plurality).
 
From what I understand, the Haruno train seems to be from a combination of idling + joking, meaning they don't contribute as much.

Tbh i don't know if i super like it, targeting idles in theory makes us be able to engage with more content from the remaining people, but idk if it's the right answer here

Will prob move to Haruno to save my ass if needed, but there's prob not another wagon that's going to come out from here to DL
 
Did I kill thread, what happened
I’ll be honest I’m kind of bored/unmotivated and nothing has happened in this game.

ironically by my philosophy of “always rand day 1 of experienced players and people who recently got to play a lot” this vote should be between you and me and I have enough desire to know that I shouldn’t push myself lol. But I do feel bad about randing on to you given that a sizeable proportion also want to do that already
 
I’ll be honest I’m kind of bored/unmotivated and nothing has happened in this game.

ironically by my philosophy of “always rand day 1 of experienced players and people who recently got to play a lot” this vote should be between you and me and I have enough desire to know that I shouldn’t push myself lol. But I do feel bad about randing on to you given that a sizeable proportion also want to do that already

tbh i kinda respect that
 
I’ll be honest I’m kind of bored/unmotivated and nothing has happened in this game.

ironically by my philosophy of “always rand day 1 of experienced players and people who recently got to play a lot” this vote should be between you and me and I have enough desire to know that I shouldn’t push myself lol. But I do feel bad about randing on to you given that a sizeable proportion also want to do that already
You think the case is rand?
 
BTW I’m not replying to Ehmcee’s response until multiple other people provide commentary on it we’re not doing a “I do all the thinking everyone follows me” game.

Was Ehmcee’s case convincing? Why or why not? Is there another player you would prefer to vote? Ideally not Haruno, frozen EoD wagons are bad for town.

Aura Guardian Lady Salamence skippergamez ZippyDoo200 pulsar512b ImaginaryNeon Haruno
 
:(
i don't mind haruno i dont mind zippy both seem reasonable to me, i don't plan to switch off ehmcee unless one of them becomes more convincing
If you had to put a percent chance on how likely you think it is that Ehmcee, Haruno or Zippy are mad (each) what would you give each of them
 
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