Pokémon Kangaskhan

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Dusclops and Cofagrigus are even less relevant in XY OU than Sableye. But to answer your question:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 114-135 (40.1 - 47.5%)

Between 53-60% after SR. With semi-high rolls that's a 2HKO. Cofagrigus takes it even worse obviously, but here's the calc anyway:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)

Also, opposed to what you say, a burned Kangaskhan is not a dead Kangaskhan. Let me show you how much a burned Return does to defensive Rotom-W after a PuP:

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 183-216 (60.1 - 71%)

That's Max HP/max Def Rotom-W, and it still does 60% minimum. It's considerably less threatening when burned ofcourse, but don't consider it as a way to neuter Mega Kangaskhan completely. Keep in mind that Will-o-wisp only has 85% accuracy too, and missing it will quite frankly cost you the game a lot of the time against something like Mega Kangaskhan.

Semi-high rolls? Really? thats the best you can come up with? Really? Thats a 3HKO. Can you show what a crunch does after burn? I'd estimate about 35%, letting you drop a rest or pain split. I get the stealth rock, but did you even factor in eviolite as well? Btw, PUP doesn't affect dusclops. And a scrappy khan only gets +1. You should predict the PUP, switch in Clops, ignore PUP, burn, then pain split. Khan has no chance of a burn free kill.

also dusclops is relevant because of scolipede. Curse is baton passed and hits around protect and substitute. It destroys any chance of scolipede baton passing to cause a sweep.
 
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Semi-high rolls? Really? thats the best you can come up with? Really? Thats a 3HKO. Can you show what a crunch does after burn? I'd estimate about 35%, letting you drop a rest or pain split. I get the stealth rock, but did you even factor in eviolite as well? Btw, PUP doesn't affect dusclops. And a scrappy khan only gets +1. You should predict the PUP, switch in Clops, ignore PUP, burn, then pain split. Khan has no chance of a burn free kill.
He's talking about if you switch into MKanga, which is a position you'll find yourself in more often than not. Mkanga can either PUP and you switch to your Ghost and now Mkanga is screwed, or Crunch as you switch and now your Dusclops is screwed (btw, you should really think about Parental Bond. 45% damage from Crunch may seem like 3HKO, but it's ignoring the second hit).

This pretty much sums MKanga in a nutshell. It's a tossup whether or not you or the MKanga player guesses correctly on the next move, and whoever guesses correctly wins.
 

Srn

5/6 Doctors agree Russian Roulette is totally safe
is a Pre-Contributor
Dusclops and Cofagrigus are even less relevant in XY OU than Sableye. But to answer your question:
Between 53-60% after SR. With semi-high rolls that's a 2HKO. Cofagrigus takes it even worse obviously, but here's the calc anyway:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)
But cofagrigus is obviously better because while dusclops will probably die, like you said, cofagrigus will survive because parental bond will have been neutered. From there, it can take non-parental bond the hit, burn, and proceed to rest up.
Cofagrigus DOES beat mega kanga, even when switching in.
 
I did factor in Eviolite, and no other person, 45% is not ignoring the second hit, Parental Bond was also factored in. Still, you have over 50% chance to get a 2HKO with Crunch on Eviolite Dusclops with max Def if you predict it to come in. Considering the matchup Dusclops <-> Mega Kangaskhan seems super advantageous at first sight for the Dusclops user, that's not a difficult play to make and basically ruins your opponents Kangaskhan check.

EDIT: @last person before me: What you say is correct, but the definition of a counter is a pokemon that can consistently switch in and force out a certain pokemon. Cofagrigus has no reliable recovery and while you can always burn Mega Kangaskhan, you would lose Cofagrigus in the process, or at least have it be weakened to the point that it can't be used to take a hit as it is so slow. Imo it doesn't even qualify as a check because it's so irrelevant in XY OU, but you're right, it can burn Mega Kangaskhan should need be.
 
He's talking about if you switch into MKanga, which is a position you'll find yourself in more often than not. Mkanga can either PUP and you switch to your Ghost and now Mkanga is screwed, or Crunch as you switch and now your Dusclops is screwed (btw, you should really think about Parental Bond. 45% damage from Crunch may seem like 3HKO, but it's ignoring the second hit).

This pretty much sums MKanga in a nutshell. It's a tossup whether or not you or the MKanga player guesses correctly on the next move, and whoever guesses correctly wins.
Thankfully, if Khan is running crunch, and therefore no earthquake, he can now be mauled by Lucario.
 
Thankfully, if Khan is running crunch, and therefore no earthquake, he can now be mauled by Lucario.
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 312-369 (111 - 131.3%)

Lucario doesn't naturally outspeed Mega Kangaskhan. It can only revenge kill if it has already Mega Evolved earlier in the match, meaning it's a shaky check at best as even its priority moves won't OHKO Mega Kangaskhan. Before you start complaining about its +2 Atk, Kangaskhan has no difficulty tanking hits, forcing stuff out or picking off weakened pokes with PuP. Not to mention that Lucario can never switch in safely on PuP, so it can only come in after something else has taken a hit.
 

Srn

5/6 Doctors agree Russian Roulette is totally safe
is a Pre-Contributor
EDIT: @last person before me: What you say is correct, but the definition of a counter is a pokemon that can consistently switch in and force out a certain pokemon. Cofagrigus has no reliable recovery and while you can always burn Mega Kangaskhan, you would lose Cofagrigus in the process, or at least have it be weakened to the point that it can't be used to take a hit as it is so slow. Imo it doesn't even qualify as a check because it's so irrelevant in XY OU, but you're right, it can burn Mega Kangaskhan should need be.
The only instance where cofagrigus MAY not completely counter is when kang stays scrappy, PuP's to get to +1, then mega evolves and goes for crunch, which btw, cofagrigus still survives and can then burn.
Think of it like this:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)
Cofagrigus switches in, takes 51% worst case scenario after leftovers.
The next crunch does
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 104-124 (32.5 - 38.7%)
and then it's burned. so after leftovers, MAX ROLL BOTH TIMES, you're still at 17%
The next crunch does
252+ Atk burned Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 52-62 (16.2 - 19.3%)

From there, if you survive, you can just rest up and the kanga is crippled for the rest of the match.
You have to be INCREDIBLY UNLUCKY to lose to mega kanga, even on the switch in.
Now, let's look at best case scenario
48.7+32.5=81.2
81.2-14(leftovers)=67.2
That means you'll be alive with 32.8% to take the burned crunch.

So after the two crunches, you can be anywhere around 17%-32%, and you have to be above 20% to take the incoming burned crunch and survive to get a rest off.
That's pretty darn good odds if you ask me.
You don't exactly have to stay in either, any decently bulky pokemon like garchomp can come in on a burned crunch and start doing stuff while you can save cofagrigus for death fodder.

And did I mention this is SWITCHING IN?

 
I'm still thoroughly impressed that Kangaskhan is having an aspect of it quickbanned elsewhere.

I mean.

Kangaskhan.

That shitty super-rare Safari pokémon that would always appear when I just wanted Scyther.

Damnit.
TBH I don't think MKanga would be anywhere near as powerful had Power up Punch not been introduced. Yeah, it's got scary power, but a non +2 MKanga is not that difficult to get around. Sure, still hits like a truck, but defensive mons can easily wall it. With a +2, though, the game is different, and now Ghosts are necessary, and even then it's not guaranteed depending on what coverage move MKanga has.

Still waiting for Pokemon Z where obvious OP Mega Farfetch'd is obvious
 
I actually like this Jolly MegaKanga with 96 HP / 156 Atk / 252 Speed that I've been using with Sucker Punch / Power-Up Punch / Earthquake and Dizzy Punch. I've just been experimenting with different things while the game is still fresh. I don't expect a lot of people to understand it but I thought I'd just throw my two cents out there :]
 
so I saw knock off was mentioned as a move it has on page 1, but has anyone talked about a set like

knock off
Pup
sucker punch
and return

I figure one of the few things that counter mega kanga are rocky helmet wearers like skar, so if u see they have a poke that might have a rocky helm or a ghost they might switch in knock off will take care of both of these problems
 
EDIT: Upon looking at the Forum a little more thoroughly, I see other have suggested Cofagrigus. Disregard my naive assumption of originality and please just take this post as an addition to the discussion!

Hey guys, I posted this on Reddit not too long ago and figured you would enjoy this analysis. Essentially, I believe I've found a "Counter" to MegaKangaskhan. I know the word "Counter" isn't used lightly here, so I made sure to calculate accordingly.


I heard a lot of noise about MegaKangaskhan having "No Counters" due to its wide movepool and incredible strength. I'd like to challenge that idea with a Pokemon that will become available after PokeBank opens up.

Cofagrigus.

When Cofagrius switches in, its considerable physical bulk can take whatever Kanga dishes out. Earthquake is run on some Kanga, but not often, and even so it's not boosted by STAB or a weakness. Return can't hit it, same with Fake-Out and PUP. These can all hit if Kanga hasn't MegaEvolved, but Cofagrigus's 145 Base Defense laughs at such attacks without a boost. The MegaEvolution can easily be baited by not throwing out Cofagrigus first, such as starting with the ever-popular Focus Sash Smeargle, baiting the Evolution, and then switching into Cofagrigus to watch the wasted PUP's fly through him. Crunch and Sucker Punch are viable hits, but here's where the fun starts.

Mummy. Cofagrigus' ability actually takes away Parental Bond and replaces it with Mummy. So, yes, Crunch hits hard, but there's a chance it won't even 2HKO, and that's WITH Parental Bond calculated in. But you don't get to use Parental Bond twice, so it's only a 3HKO unboosted.

Kangaskhan DOES get to hit twice even though Mummy changes its ability after the first hit, but afterward, it can't get a 2HKO anymore because it won't get the boost from Parental Bond. It's either forced to switch out - giving you a free turn - or deal with Cofagrius, which can then either start hitting, use Toxic, WoW, or just Rest up with a Lum berry. Ideally, those Cofagrius who find themselves in this situation used their Calm Minds or Nasty Plots to best take advantage of the situation, or just hit Kanga with a status (Toxic, Burn) right off the bat. However, they can also switch in, which will rarely result in them getting hit with Crunch. Most times, Return/PUP will fly through them. Even if they switch into Crunch, it's still a 3HKO due to Mummy, so you have a free turn to Rest or WoW.

Here are some calculations using a Jolly Kanga:

  • 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 141-168 (44 - 52.5%): Possible 2HKO, but Mummy interrupts this.
  • 252 Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 94-112 (29.3 - 35%): Possible 3HKO, but no 2HKO after first Parental Bond hit.
  • +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 282-333 (88.1 - 104%): Small Chance of OHKO, Guaranteed 2HKO even after Mummy. Mummy activates regardless.
  • +2 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 188-222 (58.7 - 69.3%): Guaranteed 2HKO
Here are some calculations using Adamant:

  • 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%): Possible 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 104-124 (32.5 - 38.7%): Possible 3HKO.
  • +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 309-366 (96.5 - 114.3%): Almost guaranteed OHKO, but Mummy still cripples Parental Bond.
  • +2 252+ Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 206-244 (64.3 - 76.2%): Guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, you can switch into MegaKangaskhan safely without worrying about a OHKO at all unless he's +2, and even that requires prediction and either Crunch or Sucker Punch to land, the latter of which can't on a switch-in. Both moves have 80 BP, so I didn't bother calculating separately. Either way, you can Rest to waste Suckerpunch or just use a Status move in general (Toxic, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot etc.)

But that's the best part about Cofagrigus: it has a wide movepool capable of countering MegaKangaskhan.

  • Power Split can cripple its attack, making its 2HKO's even 3HKO's or lower, giving you time to Rest/Nasty Plot/WoW.
  • Wil-o-wisp cripples MegaKangas in general. After Mummy, they'll be useless.
  • Toxic can be used if you prefer some sort of Protect/Toxic variant or just want to Rest all day long to counter the damage.
Let me know what you guys think! Took me a bit to put this together, but I really think Cofagrigus could jump up in use to counter MegaKangaskhan reliably. He's not too shabby of a Physical wall by himself. 1vs1 with Kanga at +0, Cofagrigus can always win if it runs Rest/WoW/Psychic/Calm Mind(Or Nasty Plot) with a Lum Berry and Max HP/Defense, even on the switch!

It's important to remember that If Kanga isn't already +2, you're guaranteed to have a single turn of setup to Rest with a Lum Berry, since he can't 2HKO after Mummy takes away the Parental Bond.

EDIT:
I didn't factor in Leftovers, which eliminates the need for Lum Berry if you prefer the continuous recovery. Taking 50%, 30%, and 17.5% After Crunch, Non-Parental Bond Crunch, and Burned Crunch doesn't kill quite kill Cofagrigus, but you don't have to care at all about close calls with Leftovers healing you in between. By the time your Rest ends, you'll have eaten up Kanga's Burned, Non-Parental Bond Crunches with your defenses and Leftovers, and Kanga will be at 50% or less from Burn.
 
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Stallion

Tree Young
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EDIT: Upon looking at the Forum a little more thoroughly, I see other have suggested Cofagrigus. Disregard my naive assumption of originality and please just take this post as an addition to the discussion!

Hey guys, I posted this on Reddit not too long ago and figured you would enjoy this analysis. Essentially, I believe I've found a "Counter" to MegaKangaskhan. I know the word "Counter" isn't used lightly here, so I made sure to calculate accordingly.


I heard a lot of noise about MegaKangaskhan having "No Counters" due to its wide movepool and incredible strength. I'd like to challenge that idea with a Pokemon that will become available after PokeBank opens up.

Cofagrigus.

When Cofagrius switches in, its considerable physical bulk can take whatever Kanga dishes out. Earthquake is run on some Kanga, but not often, and even so it's not boosted by STAB or a weakness. Return can't hit it, same with Fake-Out and PUP. These can all hit if Kanga hasn't MegaEvolved, but Cofagrigus's 145 Base Defense laughs at such attacks without a boost. The MegaEvolution can easily be baited by not throwing out Cofagrigus first, such as starting with the ever-popular Focus Sash Smeargle, baiting the Evolution, and then switching into Cofagrigus to watch the wasted PUP's fly through him. Crunch and Sucker Punch are viable hits, but here's where the fun starts.

Mummy. Cofagrigus' ability actually takes away Parental Bond and replaces it with Mummy. So, yes, Crunch hits hard, but there's a chance it won't even 2HKO, and that's WITH Parental Bond calculated in. But you don't get to use Parental Bond twice, so it's only a 3HKO unboosted.

Kangaskhan DOES get to hit twice even though Mummy changes its ability after the first hit, but afterward, it can't get a 2HKO anymore because it won't get the boost from Parental Bond. It's either forced to switch out - giving you a free turn - or deal with Cofagrius, which can then either start hitting, use Toxic, WoW, or just Rest up with a Lum berry. Ideally, those Cofagrius who find themselves in this situation used their Calm Minds or Nasty Plots to best take advantage of the situation, or just hit Kanga with a status (Toxic, Burn) right off the bat. However, they can also switch in, which will rarely result in them getting hit with Crunch. Most times, Return/PUP will fly through them. Even if they switch into Crunch, it's still a 3HKO due to Mummy, so you have a free turn to Rest or WoW.

Here are some calculations using a Jolly Kanga:

  • 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 141-168 (44 - 52.5%): Possible 2HKO, but Mummy interrupts this.
  • 252 Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 94-112 (29.3 - 35%): Possible 3HKO, but no 2HKO after first Parental Bond hit.
  • +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 282-333 (88.1 - 104%): Small Chance of OHKO, Guaranteed 2HKO even after Mummy. Mummy activates regardless.
  • +2 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 188-222 (58.7 - 69.3%): Guaranteed 2HKO
Here are some calculations using Adamant:

  • 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%): Possible 2HKO
  • 252+ Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 104-124 (32.5 - 38.7%): Possible 3HKO.
  • +2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 309-366 (96.5 - 114.3%): Almost guaranteed OHKO, but Mummy still cripples Parental Bond.
  • +2 252+ Atk Mummy Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mummy Cofagrigus: 206-244 (64.3 - 76.2%): Guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, you can switch into MegaKangaskhan safely without worrying about a OHKO at all unless he's +2, and even that requires prediction and either Crunch or Sucker Punch to land, the latter of which can't on a switch-in. Both moves have 80 BP, so I didn't bother calculating separately. Either way, you can Rest to waste Suckerpunch or just use a Status move in general (Toxic, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot etc.)

But that's the best part about Cofagrigus: it has a wide movepool capable of countering MegaKangaskhan.

  • Power Split can cripple its attack, making its 2HKO's even 3HKO's or lower, giving you time to Rest/Nasty Plot/WoW.
  • Wil-o-wisp cripples MegaKangas in general. After Mummy, they'll be useless.
  • Toxic can be used if you prefer some sort of Protect/Toxic variant or just want to Rest all day long to counter the damage.
Let me know what you guys think! Took me a bit to put this together, but I really think Cofagrigus could jump up in use to counter MegaKangaskhan reliably. He's not too shabby of a Physical wall by himself. 1vs1 with Kanga at +0, Cofagrigus can always win if it runs Rest/WoW/Psychic/Calm Mind(Or Nasty Plot) with a Lum Berry and Max HP/Defense, even on the switch!

It's important to remember that If Kanga isn't already +2, you're guaranteed to have a single turn of setup to Rest with a Lum Berry, since he can't 2HKO after Mummy takes away the Parental Bond.

EDIT:
I didn't factor in Leftovers, which eliminates the need for Lum Berry if you prefer the continuous recovery. Taking 50%, 30%, and 17.5% After Crunch, Non-Parental Bond Crunch, and Burned Crunch doesn't kill quite kill Cofagrigus, but you don't have to care at all about close calls with Leftovers healing you in between. By the time your Rest ends, you'll have eaten up Kanga's Burned, Non-Parental Bond Crunches with your defenses and Leftovers, and Kanga will be at 50% or less from Burn.
Nice in theory, but you know Kanga could hit I with a Crunch on a switch and then switch out of will o wisp, and kill cofagrigus the next time it comes in
 
Nobody runs crunch on Khan. (not yet) And the most common strategy is to lead w/ fake out, which whiffs on Confagrious. I've been playing on Showdown, using a pseudo confagrious (dusclops) and i can always disable it, switching into PUP, return, fake-out, and sucker punch. I know Dusclops isn't the best, but it's bulk allows me to disable it. It doesn't OHKO w/ crunch, even if it does run it, i still burn it. In reality, any ghost type can usually ignore half it's move set, even then, you can expect them to use crunch and switch in a better counter. You keep holding up crunch on the switch as your holy grail, I have still yet to see one that does carry crunch, AND even then, its not that hard to predict a move that a ghost switching in ignores, or just switch in like a scizor instead, predicting the crunch. Sableye can disable this guy, hitting with priority burn then priority recover. And sableye is REALLY common.
And by the way, even IF you predict a switch to confagrious, you still lose parental bond.
 
The only instance where cofagrigus MAY not completely counter is when kang stays scrappy, PuP's to get to +1, then mega evolves and goes for crunch, which btw, cofagrigus still survives and can then burn.
Think of it like this:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)
Cofagrigus switches in, takes 51% worst case scenario after leftovers.
The next crunch does
252+ Atk Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 104-124 (32.5 - 38.7%)
and then it's burned. so after leftovers, MAX ROLL BOTH TIMES, you're still at 17%
The next crunch does
252+ Atk burned Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 52-62 (16.2 - 19.3%)

From there, if you survive, you can just rest up and the kanga is crippled for the rest of the match.
You have to be INCREDIBLY UNLUCKY to lose to mega kanga, even on the switch in.
Now, let's look at best case scenario
48.7+32.5=81.2
81.2-14(leftovers)=67.2
That means you'll be alive with 32.8% to take the burned crunch.

So after the two crunches, you can be anywhere around 17%-32%, and you have to be above 20% to take the incoming burned crunch and survive to get a rest off.
That's pretty darn good odds if you ask me.
You don't exactly have to stay in either, any decently bulky pokemon like garchomp can come in on a burned crunch and start doing stuff while you can save cofagrigus for death fodder.

And did I mention this is SWITCHING IN?
Confagrious owns Khan. Especially if Khan whiffs a move on the switch in. And hey, if Khan does whiff a switch in move, you could wrap it to ensure it can't run. (just a suggestion) Khan is a great mon, but by no means quick ban worthy. I don't even use confagrious and the only khan that has gotten by unburned past by Dusclops (seriously, a dusclops) is one that ran ice beam. Even then i owned it with vacuum wave Lucario. (it didn't have EQ or PUP, it ran return, ice beam, fake out, sucker punch). The point is Khan is great and all, a serious threat, but not uncounterable. thats ridiculous.
 
Im starting to believe that SuckerPunch "must" be replaced with Crunch, SuckerPunch is only good for some mons like Gengar, but now the metagame is evolving and leaving SuckerPunch without use, Gengar can substitute / disable or Will-o-wisp, and when you need to use your priority SuckerPunch against other common priorities such Bullet Punch Scizor / Mega Lucario, AquaJet from Azuma or Brave Bird from TalonFlame... well it´s just useless, and Crunch doesn´t need your opponent to use an attack move, so it be more useful for other common Kangas counters, such as Trevanant and Cofagrigus.
 
If you're used to enemy Kangaskhan using Fake Out, that just means you're not used to facing competent enemy Kangaskhan. In Kalos OU, Kangaskhan has five worthwhile moves competing for four moveslots, and Fake Out is not one of them. I'm under the impression that Return / Power-Up Punch / Sucker Punch / Crunch is generally agreed to be best, with Earthquake an option in Crunch's place.

Im starting to believe that SuckerPunch "must" be replaced with Crunch, SuckerPunch is only good for some mons like Gengar, but now the metagame is evolving and leaving SuckerPunch without use, Gengar can substitute / disable or Will-o-wisp, and when you need to use your priority SuckerPunch against other common priorities such Bullet Punch Scizor / Mega Lucario, AquaJet from Azuma or Brave Bird from TalonFlame... well it´s just useless, and Crunch doesn´t need your opponent to use an attack move, so it be more useful for other common Kangas counters, such as Trevanant and Cofagrigus.
Crunch is valuable for getting past Ghost-types, but without Sucker Punch, Kangaskhan can get worn down by anything faster, which is a lot. Gengar and Talonflame can work around it, but for most priority, Sucker Punch makes the difference between going second and taking a hit and going first and annihilating the foe. The really tenuous spot on Kangaskhan's "standard" set is Earthquake, a coverage move more suited to being replaced with Crunch.
 
Mandibuzz is the only true counter for aegislash but who in their right minds would want to bring a mandibuzz into an OU match? Same with Cofagrigus and Dusclops. The latter two are admittedly better pokemon than mandibuzz, but you are gimping your team overall by bringing one in a match. Unless every freaking team has a kangaskhan, cofagrigus and dusclops are liabilities. You're pretty much making it a 5.5 vs 6 match if they lack a kangaskhan. You're much better off using mega lucario, skarmory, or the grass/ghosts to OHKO or phase him out.
 
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Mandibuzz is the only true counter for aegislash but who in their right minds would want to bring a mandibuzz into an OU match? Same with Cofagrigus and Dusclops. The latter two are admittedly better pokemon than mandibuzz, but you are gimping your team overall by bringing one in a match. Unless every freaking team has a kangaskhan, cofagrigus and dusclops are liabilities. You're pretty much making it a 5.5 vs 6 match if they lack a kangaskhan
Mandibuzz, like Sableye, is starting to get very viable in OU as an odd sort of wall. So I don't think it's too far-fetched.

However, that sort of comparison shows us exactly why you shouldn't be using Cofagrigus or Dusclops to handle Kangaskhan. No matter how worried you are about Kangaskhan, you can use Sableye to stop it even better due to not being weak to Dark, and get something that can be worthwhile the rest of the time as well.
 
Actually w/ access to curse, dusclops mauls anybody trying to baton pass. Khan or not, i've never found it to be a liability, and it has reliable recovery in the form of pain split w/ 40 base hp. It and goodra are my two walls on my team.
 
klefki with thunder wave makes this thing sad. So does mega bannette. And pretty much any prankster user with a good support move pool. Also, things that can trick a scarf really stop a sweep, especially if you have mega gengar. As mentioned above, trevanent can take it if it lacks crunch, dusclops, cofagrigous, etc.

Oh, and explosions. I like explosions
 

Roy

streetpkmn
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Where's the love for Fire Punch, for Ferrothorn in particular? Sure, you're still taking 2 Iron Barb hits (and 2 Rocky Helmets possibly), but the OHKO is valuable and is often needed to proceed to sweep. I've had plenty of success with Return/Power Up Punch/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch and very rarely needed Earthquake, though Crunch admittedly would be nice for the rare ghosts in this metagame.

Speaking of Sucker Punch, I've found it it incredibly useful against Scarfers or base 101s+ who try to revenge kill it when I'm at +2. I honestly think it's 100% needed.
 
Fire Punch is not legal until pokebank. It was a move tutor move. I'm pretty sure it will be an option over crunch/quake when it becomes legal.
 
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