Pokémon Kangaskhan

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Fake Out is crazy weak and begs you to switch something to force MegaKan out. Sucker Punch is pretty much always going to be better.
Also, standard is Return / Earthquake / Sucker Punch / Power-Up-Punch, with Crunch getting slashes on either SP or PUP for consistency. It packs much more power that way.
I'd expect Crunch to be slashed with Earthquake as a coverage move? Since PUP is key for boosting and SP is key for priority, but Crunch and EQ are both coverage so they serve similar purposes.

But yeah, Kangaskhan is so busy with those five moves that it doesn't have room for anything else.

Well its takes out 30% on almost anything.. And I think knock off is better than crunch it got more bp on first hit and why not low kick? It's ou it got mosly 120 bp
Knock Off is definitely superior, but it's only an option for Pokebank.

Low Kick, like Fake Out, is worthless against Ghost-types, Kangaskhan's biggest nemeses due to being immune to both its most powerful attack and its boosting move.
 
Fake Out is free damage in the same way that Protect is a free turn. Opponents can easily take advantage of its relatively low power, and Kanga really needs the moveslots for coverage.
 

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Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Agreed, I've tried Fake Out Kanga and been very disappointed. On paper, a CB STAB Fake Out looks great for revenging, but giving up a moveslot for Fake Out always comes back to bite you. Once you reveal Fake Out the surprise is over and your opponent will easily play around it, while you'll be missing a key coverage move like Crunch or EQ.

At any rate, I think everyone's realized at this point MegaKahn's insane offensive power. It's been a staple on my teams, and helped push me up to 2100 on the OU ladder. The fact that it can simply overpower typical walls like Gliscor and Hippo with Power-up Punch means Khan only fears a few specific threats: Ghost-types, Rocky Helmet, and faster Fighting attackers or WoW/Priority users (read:Talonflame). Sadly now that Megakahn is a well-known threat, most teams I see are packing multiple counters specifically for this monster. Having a Ghost is important to prevent it from using PuP, because once it's at +2 Megakahn is nearly impossible to stop.

And if you're left without one of the few solid checks to Mega Kangaskahn, well, all you can really do is yell in frustration as Khan destroys everything.

I absolute can't wait to try out the Seismic Toss / Wish set, but I seriously wonder if Kahn will still be around by then. I've already retired my team and begun trying out other Megas and playstyles to end my Mega Kangaskahn addiction!
 
Why would you put a one-use move on a sweeper. M-kanga isn't a revenge killer.

It's about as stupid as a suicide reflect on scarf alakazam.
 
+2 252 Atk Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 544-640 (122.52 - 144.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even if Arceus burns Kangaskhan, that's still a 2HKO.

+2 252 Atk Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ghost: 434-512 (97.74 - 115.31%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Not much better.

She really IS that powerful.
As impressive as that is, if your opponent has an Arceus-Ghost, I'm not sure how Kangaskhan is getting to +2.

On the other hand, Arceus-Rock might have to switch into a Power-Up Punch, which would put it in a worse-than-usual state to be taking an Earthquake. A super effective unboosted PUP should do a bit less than a quarter as much as a super effective +2 EQ, so based on those calcs, even if Arceus burns Kangaskhan before the EQ, it could still end up dead if it took a PUP beforehand. Especially if it took any prior damage, such as hazards. And taking an unboosted EQ followed by a boosted EQ would have similar results.
 
As impressive as that is, if your opponent has an Arceus-Ghost, I'm not sure how Kangaskhan is getting to +2.

On the other hand, Arceus-Rock might have to switch into a Power-Up Punch, which would put it in a worse-than-usual state to be taking an Earthquake. A super effective unboosted PUP should do a bit less than a quarter as much as a super effective +2 EQ, so based on those calcs, even if Arceus burns Kangaskhan before the EQ, it could still end up dead if it took a PUP beforehand. Especially if it took any prior damage, such as hazards. And taking an unboosted EQ followed by a boosted EQ would have similar results.
I was responding to ogasian responding to this:

Some comments here are flat-out absurd, people are completely underestimating Parental Bond. It turns Return's base power into effectively 229 without boosts AND it renders Focus Sash, Sturdy and Substitute useless. PuP is also effectively turned into a combination of Swords Dance + Brick Break (it has 70 Base Power), and there are NO physical walls that take less than 75% from a +2 Mega Kangaskhan, not even in the Uber metagame! (actually, Quagsire takes aproximately 60%, but it can only try to Scald Burn it in return).
Blue Star made a true statement, "no physical wall takes less than 75% from a +2 MegaKhan, not even in Ubers", and I was merely offering calculations to back up that statement. How Khan gets to +2 in the first place was not part of the claim. I don't think it's particularly important anyway, as I understood the purpose of the claim to be an illustration of Khan's raw power, not how it would actually play in Ubers.
 
After the discussions of SToss MKhan post-Bank I started trying it out and it is hilariously awesome. This thing is possibly even more broken than PuP MKang. Sableye still beats it, but uninvested neutral nature Crunch hits hard enough to beat all the other Ghosts and it no long requires a setup turn to reach full potential against other switch-ins. Plus it cares less about residual damage and Burn. Fantastic.
 
I wish It could run EQ and Ice punch, I mean it can but then it's other moves will likely be PuP, return. You would lose sucker punch which is very viable, but I want to try an Ice punch set...Ice punch would be for Flying, dragon, rock, grass(Iirc) I could see this set working somewhat now that I think about it.
I mean you will take out Gliscors, and some dragons easy. Could IcePunch be even alittle viable on MKangashan?
 
I wish It could run EQ and Ice punch, I mean it can but then it's other moves will likely be PuP, return. You would lose sucker punch which is very viable, but I want to try an Ice punch set...Ice punch would be for Flying, dragon, rock, grass(Iirc) I could see this set working somewhat now that I think about it.
I mean you will take out Gliscors, and some dragons easy. Could IcePunch be even alittle viable on MKangashan?
Ehh, Gliscor is really the only one that can be a pain to take out. Most other things on that list will be hit hard enough by Return except for Rock, which would be better covered by EQ.
 
Ehh, Gliscor is really the only one that can be a pain to take out. Most other things on that list will be hit hard enough by Return except for Rock, which would be better covered by EQ.
Exactly tho, With Ice punch and EQ you cover like 9 types? Plus anything you don't cover can usally be killed by Return very easily. But I guess I see what you mean tho.


Also, I know Hyperbeam isn't viable, but how does Hyper Beam work with Mega Kangashan, would it do two beams then recharge or would it be able to be used every turn and it just reacharges on what your second attack would be or does Hyper Beam work how it normaly does?
 

Srn

5/6 Doctors agree Russian Roulette is totally safe
is a Pre-Contributor
Not sure if this counts for anything, but...
Shouldn't cofagrigus get a sort of special mention for countering mega kang?
With outstanding base 145 defense, immunity to STAB, and able to sidestep sucker punch to then will-o-wisp, it's pretty good
But of course, mummy is the only reason to run this guy over, say, gourgeist or what not. I'm pretty sure mummy would remove parental bond, which is the entire point.
With rest-talk, he can probably take a couple earthquakes, and mega kang won't be setting up PuP's anytime soon.
Of course, cofagrigus serves little to no purpose either than to poop on mega kanga on an OU team, but imo its well worth it. Mega kanga is just that much of a threat in my eyes.
So I was thinking something like this would work:
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball/Hex(lol)
- Will-O-Wisp
 
Not sure if this counts for anything, but...
Shouldn't cofagrigus get a sort of special mention for countering mega kang?
With outstanding base 145 defense, immunity to STAB, and able to sidestep sucker punch to then will-o-wisp, it's pretty good
But of course, mummy is the only reason to run this guy over, say, gourgeist or what not. I'm pretty sure mummy would remove parental bond, which is the entire point.
With rest-talk, he can probably take a couple earthquakes, and mega kang won't be setting up PuP's anytime soon.
Of course, cofagrigus serves little to no purpose either than to poop on mega kanga on an OU team, but imo its well worth it. Mega kanga is just that much of a threat in my eyes.
So I was thinking something like this would work:
Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball/Hex(lol)
- Will-O-Wisp
The thing is, Kangaskhan can run Crunch to hit Ghost-types like Cofagrigus and Gourgeist. Really only Sableye can work around that; Spiritomb is an option but Sableye is much better.
 
The point of the set is to block Parental Bond with mummy.
Hmm... A super effective Crunch is barely more harmful than a neutral Parental Bond Earthquake, so if Cofagrigus can take the first volley where it still has the ability, it might not be in bad shape. The viability might take some calcs, though, especially when it can't retaliate beyond a burn and just has to wait for Kangaskhan to die if it doesn't switch.
 
The point of the set is to block Parental Bond with mummy.
It certainly cripples MKang from building momentum, but even burned and without her ability she can still beat out Cofagrigus with Crunch. She can also grab a +1 from Scrappy PuP if Cof switches on her first turn to make it easier. And once Cof dies, she can just switch out to get Parental Bond back (assuming I understand how Mummy works).
 

Srn

5/6 Doctors agree Russian Roulette is totally safe
is a Pre-Contributor
Hmm... A super effective Crunch is barely more harmful than a neutral Parental Bond Earthquake, so if Cofagrigus can take the first volley where it still has the ability, it might not be in bad shape. The viability might take some calcs, though, especially when it can't retaliate beyond a burn and just has to wait for Kangaskhan to die if it doesn't switch.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)
From there, no more of the second hit from mega kanga, which greatly weakens it. Not to mention it should be burned after the first turn.
And if you did happen to let it get up a PuP:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 309-366 (96.5 - 114.3%)
You're sorta fucked :D
But then again, if you're not packing a sableye, you're pretty fucked either way when a mega kanga is at +2.
However, I'm not sure if after the first crunch mummy immediately activates and you get to avoid the second, or if you have to take both and then mummy kicks in.
It certainly cripples MKang from building momentum, but even burned and without her ability she can still beat out Cofagrigus with Crunch. She can also grab a +1 from Scrappy PuP if Cof switches on her first turn to make it easier. And once Cof dies, she can just switch out to get Parental Bond back (assuming I understand how Mummy works).
+2 252+ Atk burned Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 103-122 (32.1 - 38.1%)
Mega kanga ain't getting past cofagrigus when its burned. Ever.
And cof can take pursuit and stuff quite well, so it won't die too easily.
Also:
252+ Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 22-26 (6.87 - 8.12%) -- 9HKO at best
after which
+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 234-276 (73.1 - 86.2%)

Still fails to ko after leftovers. From there you can burn it. You'll die, but mega kanga will have been essentially dealt with.
 
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)
From there, no more of the second hit from mega kanga, which greatly weakens it. Not to mention it should be burned after the first turn.
And if you did happen to let it get up a PuP:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 309-366 (96.5 - 114.3%)
You're sorta fucked :D
But then again, if you're not packing a sableye, you're pretty fucked either way when a mega kanga is at +2.
However, I'm not sure if after the first crunch mummy immediately activates and you get to avoid the second, or if you have to take both and then mummy kicks in.

+2 252+ Atk burned Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 103-122 (32.1 - 38.1%)
Mega kanga ain't getting past cofagrigus when its burned. Ever.
And cof can take pursuit and stuff quite well, so it won't die too easily.
Also:
252+ Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 22-26 (6.87 - 8.12%) -- 9HKO at best
after which
+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 234-276 (73.1 - 86.2%)

Still fails to ko after leftovers. From there you can burn it. You'll die, but mega kanga will have been essentially dealt with.
Cof has more or less nothing to do against it but stall out burn damage. MKang doesn't have to OHKO or even 2HKO it to win, Cof isn't a sweeper that's going to OHKO it back.
 

Srn

5/6 Doctors agree Russian Roulette is totally safe
is a Pre-Contributor
Cof has more or less nothing to do against it but stall out burn damage. MKang doesn't have to OHKO or even 2HKO it to win, Cof isn't a sweeper that's going to OHKO it back.
There are MANY things that can KO mega kanga offensively. But I don't think much can take a +1 hit from kanga and retaliate with a burn. There aren't a lot of defensive checks for mega kanga that can deal with essentially anything it wants to dish out, but imo, cofagrigus is one of them.
Also, a burned kanga is a dead kanga. Cofagrigus has done its job. All you need to do is make sure there are no clerics.
 
Cofagrigus does get Nasty Plot and can hit pretty hard so long as it's running some secondary coverage instead of Trick Room. If you want Trick Room to try to initiate a sweep after coming in, you'll need to drop Will o Wisp and I don't think anyone wants to do that.
 
Cofagrigus does get Nasty Plot and can hit pretty hard so long as it's running some secondary coverage instead of Trick Room. If you want Trick Room to try to initiate a sweep after coming in, you'll need to drop Will o Wisp and I don't think anyone wants to do that.
The fact that shit like Cofagrigus is being brought up is a pretty depressing statement about how people have to deal with Mega Kanga
 
Kangaskhan@Kangaskhanite
Adamant Nature, Scrappy Ability
252 Speed, 252 Atk, 4 Hp
-Return
-Power-up-Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Crunch

Seriously, this set is ridiculous. I catch so many SubGars and Trevenants with Crunch, to which they respond with something to revenge, and eat up a Sucker Punch. The loss of Earthquake sucks, but I build up the rest of my team to compensate, and it's absolutely the MVP of my team, no question.
 
I just want to say that Mega Kanga is UNBELIEVABLY good.

Recently I've just been throwing him out as a lead and its power catches my opponent so off guard that I demolish about half their team before they figure out how to deal with it.
 
About Parental Bond vs Mummy mechanics: the way it works is when you use e.g. Crunch with Mega Kangaskhan on Cofagrigus, the first hit does full damage (obviously), and the second hit does 50% damage as expected. Mummy kicks in after the move is done, meaning the next time you attack you will only hit once at 100% damage. This was deliberately tested by Pokemon Online staff.

Source: http://pokemon-online.eu/forums/showthread.php?23239-Parental-Bond-vs-Mummy-bug

Anyway Kangaskhanite deserves to be quickbanned, not going to write down a whole argument now but you can take a look at the Kangaskhanite suspect discussion on PO forums for arguments why (it's been decided that it's getting banned btw).
 
Khan is pretty good, well really good. But not uncounterable. An a normal, scrappy khan, can't hit a defensive mon for anything. at all. its not that hard to make sure Khan evos, then switch in a ghost type (dusclops, confagrious, whatever) ignore the PAP, and burn it back. A burned khan is a dead khan. I even curse it for good measure sometimes. Whenever i see one, i just switch my dusclops into it. pretty much stops it cold, and i haven't met that runs crunch yet. But that might become common. I usually see PUP, Return, EQ, SuckerPunch, and or Outrage. No crunch, not yet anyway. But if it does run crunch, how well does a fully def invested dusclops take a crunch?

I don't think it should be quickbanned. I don't even use it, but i don't have a problem with it.
 
Khan is pretty good, well really good. But not uncounterable. An a normal, scrappy khan, can't hit a defensive mon for anything. at all. its not that hard to make sure Khan evos, then switch in a ghost type (dusclops, confagrious, whatever) ignore the PAP, and burn it back. A burned khan is a dead khan. I even curse it for good measure sometimes. Whenever i see one, i just switch my dusclops into it. pretty much stops it cold, and i haven't met that runs crunch yet. But that might become common. I usually see PUP, Return, EQ, SuckerPunch, and or Outrage. No crunch, not yet anyway. But if it does run crunch, how well does a fully def invested dusclops take a crunch?

I don't think it should be quickbanned. I don't even use it, but i don't have a problem with it.
Dusclops and Cofagrigus are even less relevant in XY OU than Sableye. But to answer your question:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 114-135 (40.1 - 47.5%)

Between 53-60% after SR. With semi-high rolls that's a 2HKO. Cofagrigus takes it even worse obviously, but here's the calc anyway:

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 156-186 (48.7 - 58.1%)

Also, opposed to what you say, a burned Kangaskhan is not a dead Kangaskhan. Let me show you how much a burned Return does to defensive Rotom-W after a PuP:

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 183-216 (60.1 - 71%)

That's Max HP/max Def Rotom-W, and it still does 60% minimum. It's considerably less threatening when burned ofcourse, but don't consider it as a way to neuter Mega Kangaskhan completely. Keep in mind that Will-o-wisp only has 85% accuracy too, and missing it will quite frankly cost you the game a lot of the time against something like Mega Kangaskhan.


 
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