Pokémon Kangaskhan

[Blue_Star]

Actually, if Sucker Punch gets KS'd, Kangaskhan doesn't suffer the attack drop, it's a programming error in PS afaik.

 

[Ilan]

What do you think about knock off? seems like a good idea since it will have 120 BP (more or less) on none mega pokemon and it can bypass gengar (which just subs on your sucker punch)

 

[nyczxjay]

What do you think about knock off? seems like a good idea since it will have 120 BP (more or less) damage on none mega pokemon and it can bypass gengar (which just subs on your sucker punch)

Crunch provides more reliable power. If you use Knock Off the second hit will be weakened.

 

[Ilan]

Crunch provides more reliable power. If you use Knock Off the second hit will be weakened.

Depends.. if the pokemon is eviolite, also it will get rid of leftovers.. and I think you KO gengar anyway it can be very useful..

 

[DaiGuren]

So, we're back to where we started, eh?

If you run Fire Punch, Crunch and Sucker Punch, you're left with one move. What do you run, PuP? EQ? Return? Dropping any one of those will net MegaKhan a serious disadvantage.

For the nth time, yes we get it, MegaKhan can deal with any counter/check that is thrown at him with his movepool. But, as the system is made as it is, MegaKhan can only carry 4 moves. Meaning MegaKhan can't deal with all counter/checks thrown at him in real battle.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Mega Kangaskhan is definitely broken. Checks are few and far between, and it can beat most of them with the right coverage move. You never know beforehand which one it will run, so you can lose your Trevenant/Jellicent to a Crunch right after you bring it in, and then you have to find a way to stop it with your best check gone. Skarmory will fall quickly when switching in on PuP and taking a Fire Punch. Worth noting that if Mega Kanga PuP's again on Skarmory and you don't phaze right away, you take over 60% from Return. That's pretty insane.

Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn is an acceptable check, though it can be considering centralizing if Ferrothorn has to run Rocky Helmet over Leftovers just because of Mega Kangaskhan. (yes Rocky Helmet also punishes U-turn users, but Lefties are better overall). Sableye is another check, and pokes like CB Talonflame/Dragonite, Keldeo/Lucario or Breloom/Conkeldurr/Lucario can revenge kill a weakened Mega Kangaskhan but can't switch in safely.

After a PuP and thus having +2 Atk, Sucker Punch kills most relevant Scarfers barring Garchomp with one hit, barring the aforementioned Keldeo and Terrakion. Even the bulkiest physical walls like defensive Gliscor or Mew die to a +2 Return. Taking into consideration that Mega Kangaskhan has great 105/100/100 defenses and only one weakness, it's very easy to obtain a +2 boost without taking too much damage. Mega Kangaskhan forces people to have one of the very few pokemon on their team that can beat it reliably, or risk getting flatout swept without being able to do anything. It's just too much for standard OU teams to handle.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Mega Banette also has access to prankster WoW. Nintetails is faster and can WoW. Ditto Gengar, Charizard, Mismagius, etc. This isn't even factoring in the fact that most Megakhans run Adamant + max HP for maximum damage and longevity. If there are any +speed Megakhans running around, I haven't encountered them yet.

WoW isn't the only status that cripples Megakhan either. It has a similar problem with paralysis, sleep, and even toxic poison, since it lacks any form of reliable recovery. Any of the genies can cripple it with priority thunder waves. Quagsire can take a parental bond Return and try to burn with Scald or poison with toxic.

Even with a +speed nature and max EVs in speed, Hawlucha is faster, can OHKO with High Jump Kick, and resists sucker punch. Ditto Mienshao. Breloom's Mach Punch poses a fairly significant threat as well.

It's definitely a top tier threat, but it can be played around even if you don't have a counter. I've yet to actually be swept by one, carrying Breloom and Quagsire on my team.

 

[Thorhammer]

Sableye stops Kangaskhan so hard it isn't funny. It can't boost, can't do anything except pray Will-o-wisp misses or Crunch gets a random Def drop. If Sableye comes out against Kangaskhan, the only logical thing for Kangaskhan to do is run, and if your opponent has a reasonably healthy Sableye, they will send it out every time Kangaskhan hits the field; there's no risk at all.

I initially tried out Sableye because Kangaskhan was such a problem for my team, but it's definitely not just effective for stopping Kangaskhan; it's an excellent interference Pokemon and a stop to all sorts of physical attackers. Kangaskhan is a top-tier offensive threat, but getting stopped cold by a phenomenal defensive threat is a huge strike against it. Now, if you pretty much had to run Sableye to have a shot at stopping Kangaskhan, she'd still be broken, for sure. But after trying out Sableye, I'm getting the impression that things are much more up in the air. Kangaskhan needs a careful look and probably suspect testing, but there's no need for it to go anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Sableye stops Kangaskhan so hard it isn't funny. It can't boost, can't do anything except pray Will-o-wisp misses or Crunch gets a random Def drop. If Sableye comes out against Kangaskhan, the only logical thing for Kangaskhan to do is run, and if your opponent has a reasonably healthy Sableye, they will send it out every time Kangaskhan hits the field; there's no risk at all.

I initially tried out Sableye because Kangaskhan was such a problem for my team, but it's definitely not just effective for stopping Kangaskhan; it's an excellent interference Pokemon and a stop to all sorts of physical attackers. Kangaskhan is a top-tier offensive threat, but getting stopped cold by a phenomenal defensive threat is a huge strike against it. Now, if you pretty much had to run Sableye to have a shot at stopping Kangaskhan, she'd still be broken, for sure. But after trying out Sableye, I'm getting the impression that things are much more up in the air. Kangaskhan needs a careful look and probably suspect testing, but there's no need for it to go anywhere anytime soon.

So you're basically saying because Sableye beats Mega Kangaskhan it's not worthy of a suspect. You can hardly even call Sableye relevant in XY OU! Also you don't even take Scrappy into account. A STAB Adamant Return will hurt Sableye a lot before you switch out Kangaskhan. Keep in mind that Kanga won't Mega Evolve as long as Sableye is alive. Did I mention that aside from Sableye almost nothing switches in safely into Mega Kangaskhan? You even mention yourself that Mega Kangaskhan was such a huge threat before you used Sableye, further proving my point. I suggest you read my last post.

 

[newtonja]

So you're basically saying because Sableye beats Mega Kangaskhan it's not worthy of a suspect. You can hardly even call Sableye relevant in XY OU! Also you don't even take Scrappy into account. A STAB Adamant Return will hurt Sableye a lot before you switch out Kangaskhan. Keep in mind that Kanga won't Mega Evolve as long as Sableye is alive. Did I mention that aside from Sableye almost nothing switches in safely into Mega Kangaskhan? You even mention yourself that Mega Kangaskhan was such a huge threat before you used Sableye, further proving my point. I suggest you read my last post.

Sableye is relevent to ou, besides a decent defensive core can take on mega kang without much problem. Saying it is a threat doesn't mean it is broken. Volcarona is a threat, terrakion is a threat, garchomp is a threat. Threat doesn't mean broken. Also he said that it is worthy to be suspect tested. Plus non mega kang is a dead weight. And after a burn mega kang fails to ohko sableye. We aren't saying that mega kang isn't really good, just that it isn't unstopable. we just disagree that is okay.

 

[Thorhammer]

So you're basically saying because Sableye beats Mega Kangaskhan it's not worthy of a suspect. You can hardly even call Sableye relevant in XY OU! Also you don't even take Scrappy into account. A STAB Adamant Return will hurt Sableye a lot before you switch out Kangaskhan. Keep in mind that Kanga won't Mega Evolve as long as Sableye is alive. Did I mention that aside from Sableye almost nothing switches in safely into Mega Kangaskhan? You even mention yourself that Mega Kangaskhan was such a huge threat before you used Sableye, further proving my point. I suggest you read my last post.

Regarding the bolded: I said no such thing. Before you tell me to look at past posts, you might want to give it a try yourself.

Now, if you pretty much had to run Sableye to have a shot at stopping Kangaskhan, she'd still be broken, for sure.

Kangaskhan needs a careful look and probably suspect testing

As I explained, Sableye is a highly effective Pokemon in the current OU tier for all sorts of reasons, and Kangaskhan is just one of them. The amount of stuff it can mess up is wonderful, both against physically offensive Pokemon no matter how fast they are and against defensive teams, which I personally found much easier to take on since adding Sableye.

And no, Scrappy Kangaskhan is not some trump card against Sableye.

252+ Atk Scrappy Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 143 - 169 (47.3 - 55.7%)

Alongside Leftovers, a priority Recover can take care of that, no problem. And once Kangaskhan is burned, it's definitely not posing any threat.

 

[Nubbins]

Wowowow so much salty tears over M-khanga. Never had a problem vs it yet. Or rather never had more trouble with M-kanga than I have with any other setup sweeper.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def M-Kangaskhan: 235 - 277 (66.8% - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I either smack it with my strongest move while it PuPs up or I switch in Landorus-T into the PuP, tank a return, and dent it with EQ. Then go for the talonflame revenge.

The answers are out there. You just gotta make a better team.

 

[kleine]

Wowowow so much salty tears over M-khanga. Never had a problem vs it yet. Or rather never had more trouble with M-kanga than I have with any other setup sweeper.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def M-Kangaskhan: 235 - 277 (66.8% - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I either smack it with my strongest move while it PuPs up or I switch in Landorus-T into the PuP, tank a return, and dent it with EQ. Then go for the talonflame revenge.

The answers are out there. You just gotta make a better team.

No one is claiming that Mega Kanga has no checks. It just doesn't have reliable counters due to its options for coverage moves. Aside from that, a good player would not use Return on Landorus-T until it's within KO range.

 

[Thorhammer]

It just doesn't have reliable counters due to its options for coverage moves.

None of its coverage lets it get past Sableye; it's about as good of a counter as you could ask for. I'd say the issue really is the smaller pool of more general checks, since it steamrolls most other things.

 

[Cshadow]

NOT SAYING MEGA KANGA IS BROKEN BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE AGAINST THE RULES.

Rather, I argue that it is absurdly powerful and its counters/checks are far and few between.

Point on Gliscor, I'll give you that.

Problem: It's not just Gliscor.

Damage Calculations.

Hide

Notes:

• Choice Band is used to simulate Parental Bond for the Return calculations.
• The base power for the second Power-Up Punch is halved and at +1 to simulate Parental Bond.

252 ATK Mega Kangaskhan vs.
Skarmory (224 HP/ 252 DEF Impish)

• +0 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (8.25 - 9.78%).
• +1 Power-Up Punch (20 Base Power): (6.42 - 7.64%).
• +2 Return (102 Base Power): (46.17 - 54.43%) -- 99.61% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
• Total damage from switching into Power-Up Punch, followed by Return: 60.84% minimum.
• Loses to Power-Up Punch followed by a +2 Fire Punch: (91.13 - 107.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.

Ferrothorn (252 HP/ 184 DEF Relaxed)

• +0 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (25.56 - 30.11%).
• +1 Power-Up Punch (20 Base Power): (19.31 - 22.72%).
• +2 Return (102 Base Power): (47.15 - 55.68%) -- 82.42% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
• +2 Fire Punch (75 Base Power): (186.36 - 219.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
• +2 Earthquake (100 Base Power): (61.93 - 73.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
• Loses to Power-Up Punch followed by Earthquake or Fire Punch.

Metagross (248 HP/ 8 DEF Adamant)

• +0 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (10.46 - 12.39%).
• +1 Power-Up Punch (20 Base Power): (7.71 - 9.36%).
• +2 Return (102 Base Power): (58.12 - 68.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
• Total damage from switching into Power-Up Punch, followed by Return: 76.29 percent minimum.
• Loses to Power-Up Punch followed by a +2 Fire Punch: (114.04 - 134.43%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

Hippowdon (252 HP/ 252 DEF Impish)

• +0 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (7.14 - 8.57%).
• +1 Power-Up Punch (20 Base Power): (5.47 - 6.66%)
• +2 Return (102 Base Power): (81.42 - 95.95%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
• Total damage from switching into Power-Up Punch, followed by Return: 94.03 percent minimum.

Landorus-T (252 HP/ 252 DEF Impish)

• -1 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (4.72 - 5.77%).
• +0 Power-Up Punch (40 Base Power): (3.67 - 4.19%).
• +1 Return (102 Base Power): (81.1 - 95.53%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
• Total damage from switching into Power-Up Punch, followed by Return: 89.49 percent minimum.

Gourgiest-H (252 HP/ 252 DEF Impish)

• +0 Fire Punch (75 Base Power): (43.85 - 51.87%) -- 78.52% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
• +0 Crunch (80 Base Power): (47.05 - 55.61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Every single Pokemon that should be able to check physical attackers is absolutely murdered by switching into Power-Up Punch followed by Return and straight up DIES from the right coverage move. Even Gourgiest-H risks being 2HKOed by switching into Fire Punch by mistake (and that's without any boosts at all)! The closest thing to a Mega Kanga counter is Sabeleye (and it's not like he can't switch out and boost up again easily later) - Gourgiest-H is just a check and Skarmory/Ferrothorn need to run Rocky Helmet in order to have a chance to Kangaskhan down with them (against Ferrothorn this is mitigated somewhat since Fire Punch OHKOes and Earthquake doesn't trigger Rocky Helmet/Iron Barbs, meanwhile Skarmory doesn't have Iron Barbs to stack damage with Rocky Helmet, so the damage he inflicts probably won't even help you in the long run without someone with strong priority who is either faster than Kangaskhan OR resists Sucker Punch (so...Lucario)).

What kind of mon will Mkanga be Sucker Punching with WoW? Nobody expects the WoW Talonflame! (Unless the Talonflame is max speed like I run and Mkanga has no chance to outspeed it with SP anyway)

+2 252 ATK Adamant Mega Kangaskhan (Burned) Parental Bond Return (102 Base Power) vs. 4 HP/ 0 DEF Talonflame: (118.45 - 139.59%) -- guaranteed OHKO.
+0 252 ATK Adamant Talonflame Brave Bird (120 Base Power) vs. 0 HP/ 0 DEF Adamant Mega Kangaskhan: (44.72 - 52.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.

Mega Kangaskhan will not be using Sucker Punch against Talonflame because most variants run just enough Speed to out-priority Mega Kangaskhan's Sucker Punch, rendering it worthless. Without any boosts, Talonflame's paltry base 81 ATK fails to OHKO Mega Kangaskhan, while a boosted Parental Bond Return will OHKO under all circumstances - even after you've burned him.

Or perhaps if it doesn't run Crunch. But then, like I said, if you run Crunch what else you missing out on? RETURN? *gasp*

I'm sorry, what? Are you trying to say that if Kangaskhan opts to use Crunch that it will be ran over Return? Balderdash. If Kangaskhan opts for Crunch, it will be ran in the last slot over Fire Punch or Earthquake since Normal/Fighting/Dark gets good coverage all by itself.

Stronger than Groudon? Choice Band Groudon. Sure, can't break subs, but who is going to sub on MKanga unless they're thick in the head? Also Groudon gets STAB on one of the best attacking types in the metagame. STAB Return is cool and all, but is walled by Rock/Steel/Ghost. And whatever coverage move you're not running leaves you walled once again, like I keep saying.

You do realize that the boost from Parental Bond is the equivalent of STAB, right? Mega Kangaskhan basically has STAB on every move she runs.

Need to scout what MKanga has? Protect. No disadvantages there. Unlike, say, MBlaziken, who just passively gets boosts and can either sweep or give
another mon boosts for them to sweep.

Cool - so which Pokemon are you going to run Protect on that doesn't fear Power-Up Punch? Rather, which Pokemon are you going to run Protect on that is going to enable you to something that doesn't fear the coverage move you're scouting for? What if she's running Power-Up Punch/Return/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch - then what are you going to do? Probably nothing, or at least, not without sacking something.

Insane amount of bulk? Mmkay. No recovery too? Mmkay. Worn down easily by switchins, status, entry hazards? Mmkay.

• Mega Kanga has five other team members - ones that could easily remove hazards, provide Wish support, or eliminate the Pokemon Kanga can't handle.
• Boosts are not hard to accumulate.
• Gourgiest/Sableye are the only Pokemon capable of forcing Mega Kanga out, and that's only if they switch into Power-Up Punch - (just about) every physically defensive Pokemon (including Steel-types) loses.

These are really, really bad arguments.

All I'm trying to say is that yes, MKanga is strong. But it is dealt with same as any other strong threat. Compare it to, say, Garchomp. Garchomp has 102 speed, has excellent STAB coverage moves, and is all around strong. It can run a myriad of items, like Choice Band/Scarf, Life Orb, Focus Sash (lol). Is it hard to deal with? Somewhat, but not impossible. Is Garchomp getting a ban? Not now.

You really shouldn't compare apples to oranges.

• Garchomp doesn't have Parental Bond, which is basically like wearing a Choice Band. Mega Kangaskhan is a Pokemon with 125 Base Attack whose ability simulates Choice Band except it has the freedom to switch between moves.
• Garchomp doesn't have priority to threaten those that are faster than him. If he does, it obviously sucks and isn't worth using compared to oh, say, Sucker Punch.
• Because Parental Bond simulates Choice Band, it really isn't any different than if Mega Kangashkan had STAB on all of its moves. So, just imagine a Pokemon that will pretty much always be at +2, except its ability is Adaptability when using Return, but it also has STAB on Sucker Punch, Fire Punch, and Earthquake when it uses them.
• Swords Dance doesn't deal damage when used. If you notice the calculations above, the fact that Power-Up Punch deals damage while also boosting Mega Kangashkan's Attack Stat is what seals the fate of a lot of common switch-ins who would at least be able to cripple it or force it out before dying.

 

[Aldaron]

honestly, PUP is just that immediate returns offensive set that nets an "obvious" result

as things get settled in the meta I fully expect the PUP to go from "amazing" to simply really good

This isn't legal at the moment on real OU, but Pokebank has Seismic Toss Kanga as legal and I really want to reiterate just how good this is.

200 HP of damage everytime on all Pokemon PLUS access to both Sucker Punch and Crunch to hit the only ones immune to it...

It's just very, very good.

MegaKhan has 105 / 100 / 100 defenses, and access to Wish / Protect as well.

I've been running a Seismic Toss / Sucker Punch / Wish / Protect bulky MegaKhan on Pokebank ladder and man, it has just been wrecking house. There has never been a Pokemon that could both wreck the opposing team AND pass Wish on the same set.

Twave / Iron Head Jirachi just annoyed the opponent, and Salamence / Latias could never get the appropriate offense down on a viable wish set to do what Megakhan can...which is have the ability to 2hko nearly every Pokemon while viably passing Wish (remember, protect keeps it alive).

If WOW Trev / Jelli get popular, you can easily change it from passing Wish to Sub / Crunch, but man, this is the first Pokemon in competitive online Pokemon's history that can both wreck the opposing team and support your team with Wish. That niche itself separates the bulky Stoss set from the PUP set.

go kanga, you're a pro

EDIT: btw, these aren't surefire counters sure, but I've been throwing Sub / Wow (not mega) Gengar or Max hp max speed Swords Dance Rocky Helmet Rough Skin Chomp on teams as generally good Pokemon that can deal with most Kanga sets.

Not saying the existence of either has any bearing on Kanga's status as a normal mon, suspect, or whatever, but just pointing to things people are using to try and deal with it.

 

[kleine]

None of its coverage lets it get past Sableye; it's about as good of a counter as you could ask for. I'd say the issue really is the smaller pool of more general checks, since it steamrolls most other things.

My bad, forgot about Sableye. It's worth noting that a Scrappy PUP (unburned) and a +1 Earthquake from a Burned Jolly Mega Kanga combine for 54.3% minimum to 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye, though, so with Stealth Rocks up, MK remains a tough cover even for Sableye.

 

[Aldaron]

Has anyone started compiling a list of defensive / offensive checks / counters to Kanga? Doesn't have to be every Kanga set, could just be a a couple of the main sets.

It's probably a good idea to get some sort of informal article out to make people aware of all that at least deal with MegaKhan, if not directly counter every set.

 

[farranpoison]

I'm actually not sure how people are sure that Seismic toss does a guaranteed 200 damage with Parental Bond, seeing as it doesn't even have access to it ingame yet.

Also, Cshadow you make some fine points. I agree with a lot of what you say, and yes, some of my arguments were basically responses to what other people were saying. However, MKanga is powerful, but it can still be dealt with. Just because something does not have reliable checks/counters does not mean it is broken (unless you're not saying that it is). Last gen, Multiscale DD Dragonite and Hydreigon, among others, had no true checks/counters yet they were dealt with. You can argue entry hazards and whatnot, but MKanga is also affected by those just as well, and if you're not dumb, you'll have something to deal with those hazards, just like those who used Dragonite/Hydreigon did. Yet, they were still dealable.

And I keep saying, but no one seems to understand, that MKanga has 4MSS. She will be walled by something no matter what you choose. PUP/Return/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch is walled by Jellicent, like I said. And stuff like Cofagrigus, Dusclops, pretty much any bulky Ghost or even the frailer ones if the predict a move other than Fire Punch. Then run Crunch then, people say. Over what? And so it goes on and on. I said the whole point about not running Return because there are some people who are advocating PUP/Sucker Punch/Crunch/Fire Punch or Earthquake, which imo is utter trash, but there we go.

And people who spam PUP on the first turn are no better than those who spam Fake Out on the first turn. Sure, you can predict that, but then again, the opponent can predict that you will predict and so on. Pokemon is a prediction game, and whoever guesses right has the advantage. If the MKanga user guesses wrong, it'll be a liability just like any other strong mon.

Sableye for OU goooooo

 

[Aldaron]

Marty, like the best researcher for mechanics ever, said it does 200 damage.

If Marty says it, it is true.

Don't call Marty a liar.

EDIT: I'm sure it was something simple like skill swapping to a stoss mon or something

EDIT: I'm just messing with you farran, I'm not sure myself how it was determined, but I will say I trust Marty absolutely based on his track record.

 

[farranpoison]

Marty, like the best researcher for mechanics ever, said it does 200 damage.

If Marty says it, it is true.

Don't call Marty a liar.

Well ok, how exactly was that found out?

Not trying to be an asshole here, I'm genuinely curious. Unless Skill Swap or something, but I was under the impression those don't work on Parental Bond.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

As I explained, Sableye is a highly effective Pokemon in the current OU tier for all sorts of reasons, and Kangaskhan is just one of them. The amount of stuff it can mess up is wonderful, both against physically offensive Pokemon no matter how fast they are and against defensive teams, which I personally found much easier to take on since adding Sableye.

And no, Scrappy Kangaskhan is not some trump card against Sableye.

252+ Atk Scrappy Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Sableye: 143 - 169 (47.3 - 55.7%)

Alongside Leftovers, a priority Recover can take care of that, no problem. And once Kangaskhan is burned, it's definitely not posing any threat.

No. Sableye is mediocre at best. It's only niche is priority W-o-W, Stallbreaking and Knock Off. It's not near relevant enough in the current metagame to be considered a counter to Mega Kangaskhan. That's like saying Blaziken was fine in OU because Slowbro beats it 1vs1, because everybody runs Slowbro in OU (sarcasm). Just because you use Sableye doesn't mean everyone else should just to beat Mega Kangaskhan.

Also worth reminding you that aside from Sableye not many pokes switch in safely on Mega Kangaskhan. In fact I don't think you mentioned any at all. And my point with Scrappy was that you do over 60% with SR up with Return, basically forcing him to W-o-W or risk a crit by spamming Recover. From there you can easily bring in something that doesn't mind a burn and forces Sableye out. Kangaskhanite is definitely broken and requires not just a suspect, but a ban imo. There's just not even close to enough reliable checks/counters to it and it has very few exploitable weaknesses.

 

[Shroomisaur]

honestly, PUP is just that immediate returns offensive set that nets an "obvious" result

as things get settled in the meta I fully expect the PUP to go from "amazing" to simply really good

This isn't legal at the moment on real OU, but Pokebank has Seismic Toss Kanga as legal and I really want to reiterate just how good this is.

200 HP of damage everytime on all Pokemon PLUS access to both Sucker Punch and Crunch to hit the only ones immune to it...

It's just very, very good.

MegaKhan has 105 / 100 / 100 defenses, and access to Wish / Protect as well.

I've been running a Seismic Toss / Sucker Punch / Wish / Protect bulky MegaKhan on Pokebank ladder and man, it has just been wrecking house. There has never been a Pokemon that could both wreck the opposing team AND pass Wish on the same set.

Oh man... just reading that made me start salivating... I love it. As much as I love the Pup/Crunch/Return/Sucker Punch, I absolutely cannot wait to use that set. Hurry up Pokebank!...

I'm actually not sure how people are sure that Seismic toss does a guaranteed 200 damage with Parental Bond, seeing as it doesn't even have access to it ingame yet.

In the research thread, someone used Skill Swap on a MegaKahn to give Blissey Parental Bond, and then the Blissey used Seismic Toss. It dealt equal damage on each hit, so it IS confirmed that Seismic Toss will deal 200 damage once Pokebank arrives.

 

[alexhitman666]

For the sake of this post, I will assume that the information we have on Seismic Toss is correct and that Mega Kangaskhan deal 200 damage thanks to Parental Bond.

Being able to do 200 damage per turn is an impressive benchmark. It allows Mega Kanghaskan to 2HKO every pokemon below 100 base stat in HP, even if they have fully invested in it. You need 130 base stats in HP (Vaporeon) to survive 2 hits without any investment in HP. Some pokemons that were considered a counter to him are now crippled by this fact like ferrothorn. The bulky Garchomp counter needs to invest at least 176 EV in HP to survive 2 seismic toss.

Of course, Ghost are unaffected by it, but sucker punch and/or crunch are there to cover them.

Overall, this move is extremely scary on Mega Kangaskhan. WoW Prankster can't do anything about it except slowly killing her since it is guaranteed damage. Will definitely need to be tested to see how it fares versus her standard set.

 

[Garchompi]

Running 4 contact moves on M-Kanga is complete suicide if you ask me. After some embarassingly bad losses against Garchomp and Ferrothorn with Rocky Helmet I ditched Fire Punch for EQ and never looked back.