Pokémon Kangaskhan

[alexhitman666]

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 73-86 (22.32 - 26.29%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 145-171 (44.34 - 52.29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-162 (41.59 - 49.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 272-320 (83.18 - 97.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You really need Fire Punch against Skarmory or you can't do much against him.

 

[Ryolain]

Crunch hits Skarmory slightly harder than Return; Kangaskhan's only stronger option against it is Fire Punch.

Assuming Skarm switches in on MKang's first turn (so the first hit of Crunch isn't +1), it will take about 69-81% before it can phaze it out, so that will only work once.

 

[Ryolain]

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 73-86 (22.32 - 26.29%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 145-171 (44.34 - 52.29%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-162 (41.59 - 49.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 272-320 (83.18 - 97.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You really need Fire Punch against Skarmory or you can't do much against him.

Phazing is not and never has been the same thing as countering. Skarm certainly gives you the chance to wear MKang down via entry hazards and priority, but he offers no way to actually put MKang down and he can only phaze him an absolute max of 3 times before he dies.

 

[alexhitman666]

Phazing is not and never has been the same thing as countering. Skarm certainly gives you the chance to wear MKang down via entry hazards and priority, but he offers no way to actually put MKang down and he can only phaze him an absolute max of 3 times before he dies.

What about Keldeo and Terrakion has counters then ? Terrakion has a guaranteed OHKO with close combat and Keldeo has 68,75% chance to OHKO. Also, justified allows them to not care at all about Sucker Punch.

 

[Ryolain]

What about Keldeo and Terrakion has counters then ? Terrakion has a guaranteed OHKO with close combat and Keldeo has 68,75% chance to OHKO. Also, justified allows them to not care at all about Sucker Punch.

Justified is completely irrelevant to Sucker Punch, it doesn't absorb the hit like Lightningrod/Flash Fire/etc. Keldeo can do it, but Terrakion takes 102% minimum from PuP -> Sucker Punch if it tries to switch in while MKang is setting up.

ETA: And Keldeo has to switch in on MKang's first turn before it has any boosts, even at +1 MKang gets at guaranteed KO with EQ -> SP.

 

[DexSeifer]

Besides Return, another "good" normal type move that can be used with sucess? Just Body Slam?

 

[Ryolain]

Besides Return, another "good" normal type move that can be used with sucess? Just Body Slam?

Not even Body Slam, really, since most things could just be straight up killed by Return rather than wasting time trying to paralyze them. With Parental Bond and STAB we're talking almost a 40BP difference in effective power.

 

[RockStarFish]

Besides Return, another "good" normal type move that can be used with sucess? Just Body Slam?

You could run Stomp for the 51% flinch rate. Or Dizzy Punch for 36% confusion.

Or run all three (Body Slam, Stomp, Dizzy Punch) and declare yourself Haxxxorz, King of Games.

Jokes aside, though, here's an interesting way of looking at Body Slam vs Return: you're trading 1/6 of Return's power for a 51% paralysis chance.

 

[DunnoBro]

There's double edge

 

[Ryolain]

There's double edge

Without even the option of Leftovers recovery, MKang reeeeally doesn't like recoil damage. You'll pretty much kamikaze yourself trying to kill high HP opponents with it.

 

[newtonja]

There's double edge

Think about it, double recoil and with something like rocky helmat garchomp you have basicly killed yourself in one hit, can somebody calculate rough skin rocky helmet garchomp with mega kang using double edge.

 

[RockStarFish]

Think about it, double recoil and with something like rocky helmat garchomp you have basicly killed yourself in one hit, can somebody calculate rough skin rocky helmet garchomp with mega kang using double edge.

252 Atk (custom) Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 298-352 (83.24 - 98.32%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Recoil averages 108, and you lose half your health from hitting Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin twice, which leaves 0 HP Mega Kangaskhan at 17% HP.

And it doesn't even OHKO Garchomp.

 

[Aqua-Niki]

Hey guys.
I'm new here and to competitive play too. I'm trying to make a team based on sidakarya's core.
I was wondering about (non-mega) Gyarados to check this thing. Given that I have Aegislash on my team, do you think the opponent would throw me an EQ on the switch?
If so, I was considering a physically defensive RestTalk set with Waterfall and Dragon Tail, with Leviator tanking quite well everything Mega-Khan can throw at -1 and phazing it. Problem is, would this Gyara be useless against everything else without DD?
Also, if MKhan does PuP on the switch, Gyara is dead on the following Return (if I did my calcs right)...

 

[Nysyr]

Rocky helm Skarmory and Ferrothorn shouldn't be considered counters. What the mega Kanga user can always do is run a Magnezone (shocking I know) and take care of those 2, freeing up a moveslot for Crunch. Rocky helmet Garchomp is still only a check, especially if they get a speed boost from anything. Also Bulky Garchomp is not the answer, since you want to outspeed it so it has to hit you with sucker punch instead of return.

 

[Shurtugal]

Nysyr

RockyHelm Garchomp is still only a check; I agree, but it's a damn good one. Kangs takes about 50% of its health using PuP, which puts a huge strain on Kangs. 307 speed Garchomp outspeeds Adamant Kangs and Chomp runs like 252 Hp / 96 Def and so it can live Return at +0 quite easily imo and retaliate with EQ.

Ferrothorn counters all sets but Fire Punch, and you can Protect scout that imo so it's a good check too as well as Skarm. No one said they were counters, but they have huge merits as checks imo. Magnezone + PokemonThatHatesSteels can be said about a lot of Pokemon (like EQ Dragonite or DubDance ThundyT, for example) so I'm not sure why Mag means Skarm and Ferro aren't checks (I get they aren't counters, but no one said they were counters so...) Mag is also kinda rare; I'd rather lure Skarm with Mixed Aegi or go into NP MegaLucario on Ferrothorn, just saying, than use Magnezone.

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents. :)

 

[shack]

Just tried fire punch on a gourgiest and that sucked. It burned me first turn and it took me 3 turns to kill it. I survived but was left with with a crippled Kang. Drain punch is iffy still, it saves me some matcheswhere they don't have strong ohko or 2hko. I'm missing Out on a lot of free kills without fake out But i will keep testing. Sorry for grammar stuff, typing from my phone.

Screenshot of that first turn. Graphic glitch made his health not go down properly.

 

[Stellar]

Are fire and or ice punch Viable on Mega Kangashan?
Also why are people using fakeout ovee bite?

Fire Punch is useful for hitting Skarmory, Aegislash, and Scizor. Things you would hit with Ice Punch are usually KOed by Return, so it isn't as useful.
Fake Out is basically "free" damage, in that it has priority and makes the opponent flinch 100% of the time when it is used. Bite only has a chance to flinch and does not have priority.

 

[DexSeifer]

Well Fire Punch isn´t good against Aegislash Kings Shield, the main problem I see with M.Kangas is when you put or not substitute in the moveset I mean Earthquake, Sucker Punch and Return are the must go moves... with substitute you can block status, and without substitute you can run Ice Punch, PuP, Fire Punch etc. but then you become an easy target for status moves.

 

[Lord Wallace]

If you can force it to Mega, Gourgeist hard walls Sucker Punch variants and can proceed to Leech Seed its ass, and even +2 Jolly Crunch fails to OHKO +172 Super Gourgeist most of the time after SR (suck on that Trevenant) and in return Gourgeist neuters it with WoW. Seriously though Gourgeist is a tank, he's easily becoming my favorite Gen 6 Poke.

 

[EonADS]

Sableye. It's absolutely ridiculous what it can do to Kangaskhan; adding one to my team changed Kangaskhan from the biggest threat in the game and near-guaranteed death if it showed up on Team Preview to a minor annoyance. Other ghosts can mess it up too, but Sableye strikes me as the best option by far due to Prankster and a lack of weakness to Dark.

Problem is that people who are actually intelligent will pair Kangaskhan with a Fire-type or status absorber for exactly that reason. Talonflame in particular can really make people pay for using Sableye against their Kangaskhan. Not saying that Sableye isn't a decent counter (because it is), but it also invites a return sweep or revenge kill from certain Pokemon.

Believe it or not, I think it's actually easier to play around Kangaskhan rather than flat-out counter it. Hazards, heavy prediction (which isn't hard, considering that Kangaskhan typically always runs a variant of the same set), and circumventing Sucker Punch with things like Toxic or faster priority (Talonflame comes to mind; even bulkier variants are typically EVd to outspeed Max +Natured Base 100's) generally seem more effective to me than finding an ineffective "counter" and still losing to people who play smart.

 

[Iodic Acid]

So I looked into a couple of potential Kangaskhan versus Gengar scenarios to try to decide for myself whether to run Sucker Punch or Crunch, and what kind of Gengar can counter or be countered by Kangaskhan. Calcs were done assuming both are using +Spd natures, all evs into speed and their respective attack stats, and both have yet to take damage. I used stages to simulate the Parental Bond being half as strong.

MegaKangaskhan versus Gengar
Kang Sucker Punch vs. Geng Focus Blast: +1 252 Atk (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 350-412 (134.09 - 157.85%) -- guaranteed OHKO for Kang.
Kang Sucker Punch vs. Geng SubDisable: Gengar forces a switch, and is guaranteed a free substitute. He also gets a free attack on the switch-in unless Kang correctly predicts the Disable and switches out instead of attacking again.
Kang Crunch vs. Geng Focus Blast: 252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 262-310 (74.64 - 88.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. 70% of the time, Kang survives with 25% hp at best, and kills Gengar. 30% of the time, Kang kills Gengar without taking any damage.
Kang Crunch vs. Geng SubDisable: -2 252 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 128-152 (49.04 - 58.23%) -- 96.88% chance to 2HKO. Accounting for health loss from substitute, Gengar loses >50% of his health and forces Kang to switch out. He also gets a free turn on the switch-in unless Kang correctly predicts the Disable and switches out instead of attacking again.

MegaKangaskhan versus MegaGengar
Kang Sucker Punch vs. Geng Focus Blast: +1 252 Atk (custom) Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 306-362 (117.24 - 138.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO for Kang
Kang Sucker Punch vs. Geng SubDisable: -2 252 Atk (custom) Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 128-152 (49.04 - 58.23%). Gengar subs against the Sucker Punch. Then he can disable the Sucker Punch and get nailed by Earthquake on the same turn, losing his sub to the first hit and losing over half of his health to the baby. If he also has Focus Blast, he can now use it without getting Sucker Punched, resulting in the next scenario but with <25% health remaining instead of all of his health. Or, predicting that Kang will not try to Sucker Punch again and instead just attack with Earthquake, he can Focus Blast for the next scenario but with a free substitute.
Kang Crunch vs. Geng Focus Blast: 252 SpA (custom) Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 320-378 (91.16 - 107.69%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO for Gengar. There is also a 30% chance to miss entirely, reducing the chance of a clean OHKO down to 30.6%. 69.4% of the time, MegaGengar dies to Crunch.
Kang Crunch vs. Geng SubDisable: -2 252 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 102-122 (39.08 - 46.74%) Gengar subs against the Crunch, loses the sub to mama and takes damage from the baby. Combined with the loss from using Substitute, he has <50% health remaining. At this point, he must attack or switch. If he has Focus Blast, he can go for the previous scenario. Otherwise, his next best option is Sludge Bomb. (252 SpA (custom) Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 180-213 (51.28 - 60.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO )

Both Sucker Punch and Crunch beat regular Focus Blast, but Crunch has a 70% chance of taking heavy damage.
Both Sucker Punch and Crunch lose to regular SubDisable, but Crunch breaks Gengar's substitute and deals heavy damage before being chased out.
Both Sucker Punch and Crunch beat Mega Focus Blast on average, but Crunch usually takes a huge amount of damage first, while Sucker Punch always wins with no damage taken.
Both Sucker Punch and Crunch beat Mega Focus Blast + SubDisable on average, with the same odds.


Conclusion: Sucker Punch is strictly better against any kind of Gengar except for SubDisable from a Gengar that has not yet mega-evolved (note that it is still allowed to carry its megastone), which would give Gengar a free sub and possibly also a free attack on the switch-in. Crunch does not have this issue, but is a far less decisive counter to the average Gengar, especially Gengar that have already mega-evolved or carry Focus Blast. In short, I'm just going to run Tailwind Talonflame and call it a day.

 

[newtonja]

The most common set I see:

- Return
- Power up punch
- Sucker punch
- earthquake/fire punch/crunch

Mega kang's counters changes depending on which of the three moves you choose. Earthquake is walled by skarmory and gourgiest. fire punch is deated by jellicent. And crunch is defeated by skarmory and most fighting types. Earthquake I think is the hardest hitting set but has more counters than the others, fire punch is the least hard hitting sets but does well against steel types. And crunch is decent but it is defeated by the pokemon that has super effective stab aka fighting types. this is mega kangs main problem, four moveslot syndrome it can't cover everything in one set.
By the way, don't use fake out set, just don't

 

[Ryolain]

The most common set I see:

- Return
- Power up punch
- Sucker punch
- earthquake/fire punch/crunch

Mega kang's counters changes depending on which of the three moves you choose. Earthquake is walled by skarmory and gourgiest. fire punch is deated by jellicent. And crunch is defeated by skarmory and most fighting types. Earthquake I think is the hardest hitting set but has more counters than the others, fire punch is the least hard hitting sets but does well against steel types. And crunch is decent but it is defeated by the pokemon that has super effective stab aka fighting types. this is mega kangs main problem, four moveslot syndrome it can't cover everything in one set.
By the way, don't use fake out set, just don't

Skarm does not like repeated +2 Returns, I don't have calcs offhand but from experience, Skarms that try to tank my hits while attacking with Brave Bird always lose. Stalling with Roost just gives you free PuPs. The best he can do is set up SR, Whirlwind you out and rack up residual damage when you come back in.

 

[newtonja]

Skarm does not like repeated +2 Returns, I don't have calcs offhand but from experience, Skarms that try to tank my hits while attacking with Brave Bird always lose. Stalling with Roost just gives you free PuPs. The best he can do is set up SR, Whirlwind you out and rack up residual damage when you come back in.

You always whirl wind him away, first rule of set up sweepers, the idea is not to take that many hits before you whirl wind him away, get rid of their boosts

 

[Ryolain]

You always whirl wind him away, first rule of set up sweepers, the idea is not to take that many hits before you whirl wind him away, get rid of their boosts

Either way, Jolly MKang's PuP -> +2 Return deals a minimum of 50%. Skarm can only phaze him once, he will die on the second attempt.