Pokémon Kangaskhan

[Thorhammer]

Kind of a one-time deal, but Air Balloon Aegislash walls her hard unless she has Fire Punch. Power-Up Punch, Normal-STAB, EQ are all ineffective, and since Sucker Punch requires Aegislash to attack, you can set-up while all she can do is switch or hopelessly spam Sucker Punch until you decide to attack. :]

Or Crunch, which people seem to really be getting to like.

 

[eternal Zero]

Right now I'm running this set and it's been working out really well for me on Wifi.

Kangaskahn @ Kangaskhanite
Scrappy / Adamant / 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Fake Out
Power Up Punch
Shadow Claw
Sucker Punch

This set does forego having STAB with Return or a lack of contact move with EQ but it deals with many of the usual counters pretty well. The set is Rocky Helm weak but with Ghost being such an amazing attack type right now (and two chances for high crit proc) Shadow Claw does a ton of work. Bulky Ghosts aren't safe and Steels are hit for neutral damage.

I'm personally still on the fence about Fake Out but more often than not it's a free hit to scout for the incoming switch or for a free little boost in damage. Again this set is really susceptible to Rough Skin/Iron Barbs + Rocky Helm but that's every Kanga set other than a surprise SpA variant.

Speaking of which I've been trying to come up with a good way to get M.Kanga to be a Special Attacker because its movepool is amazing...but it's SpA is just kind of bad.

 

[Magnemite]

Terrakion seems like it'd be a great check, once released. I'd be very surprised if Close Combat doesn't OHKO Kanga, and boosted Sucker Punch DOES KO Terrakion. Kanga also risks giving Terrakion a Justified boost, and if it switches out, Terrakion gets a free setup.

Faster Fighting-types that can tank Sucker Punch seem like decent checks. Mega Lucario, as I said before, 4x resists and OHKOes in return. Keldeo is another one, come to think of it.

Minor nitpick, but Lucario no longer 4x resists Dark. The only Pokemon that do are Scrafty and Pangoro. Anyway, Terrakion definitely seems like the best offensive check to Mega Kangaskhan. Only an idiot would Sucker Punch a full health Terrakion, especially when it hits twice, giving it +2 in one turn. It's also always faster and OHKOs with Close Combat. Though even it can't stop Kangaskhan if it's at +2 and Terrakion is at low enough health:

+2 252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 138-163 (42.59 - 50.3%) -- 1.17% chance to 2HKO

Oh Game Freak, you could've just not given it Power-Up-Punch and everything would have been fine.

 

[El_Sargento]

bulky ghosts and for the most part they are pretty unreliable since most of them are either mega gengar bait

Ghost types aren't affected by Shadow Tag (or trapping moves/abilities in general).

D66G-WWWW-WWW2-728Z --- Off topic - Extra points for Mawile getting owned and Greninja awesome mindgames :D

 

[Ash Borer]

Is it just me, or have I seen a lot of random Rocky Helmet's popping up on ladder lately? People are starting to realise that the best way to kill Mega Kanga is to use its ability against it and have it kill itself. Bulky Garchomp in particular strips off 58% of Kanga's health just by switching into any attack not named Earthquake or Sucker Punch. Still a very niche counter mind you, but a good way to stop it I guess. If Khan uses PuP -> EQ that shouldn't kill Chomp (its strongest combination it can do against it without killing itself) and you can just strike back.

faced a will-o-wisp mew with rocky helmet. That beats kanga, but it wasnt that great against the rest of the team.

 

[Exeggutive]

Ghost types aren't affected by Shadow Tag (or trapping moves/abilities in general).

D66G-WWWW-WWW2-728Z

ya forgot about that part. They are still wrecked by a scrappy return though.

 

[newtonja]

ya forgot about that part. They are still wrecked by a scrappy return though.

That's why I think sableye is the best response to mega kang yes there is power up punch but realisticly a non stab base 40 non boosted attack coming off a base 90 attack is not going to hurt anybody any day soon

 

[Shroomisaur]

What can M-Kanga do against physically defensive Sableye and Jellicent with WoW? Both of them are highly viable pokemon and check it just fine.

252/252+ Sableye is a great counter, since Prankster WoW will ruin Megakahn's rampage and it can then stall it out with Recover. However, if we're looking at what Kanga can do against it, it can Mega-evolve and use Crunch (50.32 - 59.21%) and then switch out while Sableye can either try for the WoW or is forced to Recover.

Jellicent is much shakier, since if MegaKahn predicts the switch and hits a Mega-evolved Crunch, Jellicent will be 2HKO'd (62.53 - 73.94%). Better yet, if Kahn hasn't mega-evolved yet, it can use Scrappy PuP on the switch (8.68 - 10.42%), THEN +1 Crunch for (93.79 - 110.66%), thus cleanly KOing Jellicent and gaining a +1 boost in the process to smash the rest of the team.

 

[Coddy:)]

I run kang on my pokebank and normal team.

I find fire punch is the key move and one thing i miss on none pokebank. Skarmory needs to be one shot or it whirlwinds, treveant doesnt play offense and just subseeds so sucker wont work plus scizor and the steel bugs hate it.

I also would not recommend bringing kang in while a prank wower is at large and find kang is 10x more threatening if baton passed or behind a barrier. Only a fool would bring in khan without support first. Supported it blasts through teams even without rocks.

 

[alexhitman666]

I run kang on my pokebank and normal team.

I find fire punch is the key move and one thing i miss on none pokebank. Skarmory needs to be one shot or it whirlwinds, treveant doesnt play offense and just subseeds so sucker wont work plus scizor and the steel bugs hate it.

I also would not recommend bringing kang in while a prank wower is at large and find kang is 10x more threatening if baton passed or behind a barrier. Only a fool would bring in khan without support first. Supported it blasts through teams even without rocks.

You should switch Sucker Punch for Crunch. A lot of people are expecting it on ladder and WiFi. Right now, I am running a jolly kangaskhan with Return/EQ/Crunch/Fire Punch and it's doing pretty well. You can bait the prankster by switching into something that doesn't care about the burn.

 

[Ryolain]

The problem with many of MKang's Ghost counters/checks can't safely switch in on MKang's first turn due to Scrappy, which gives Kang the opportunity to either nail you with a STAB Return or a SE PuP and makes your life much harder. Once MEvo'd, MKang's 4MSS actually makes things worse for Ghosts trying to counter him since they basically have to flip a coin if he's running Crunch or Sucker Punch. I can't think of any Ghosts off-hand with a priority move other than Shadow Sneak, so there's no one that can 100% safely try to attack any version of MKang before something else scouts his moveset (and probably dies in the process).

 

[DaiGuren]

^Kangaskhan won't be nailing any Ghosts soon with a pitiful 90 attack, even with Scrappy. For comparison, Gourgeist can eat an Outrage from a banded Garchomp and survive. If you forego Sucker Punch, you're basically food for Scarf users/mons above 100 base speed. And really, once Khan gets burned, unless you have a cleric, he's gone.

Also, it's not like MegaKhan players are the only one that can play the guessing game, you know. If I see an unevolved opponent's Kangaskhan and I have a Ghost type im my team, of course I will anticipate a scrappy Return/PuP and do something about it.

 

[Ryolain]

^Kangaskhan won't be nailing any Ghosts soon with a pitiful 90 attack, even with Scrappy. For comparison, Gourgeist can eat an Outrage from a banded Garchomp and survive. If you forego Sucker Punch, you're basically food for Scarf users/mons above 100 base speed. And really, once Khan gets burned, unless you have a cleric, he's gone.

Also, it's not like MegaKhan players are the only one that can play the guessing game, you know. If I see an unevolved opponent's Kangaskhan and I have a Ghost type im my team, of course I will anticipate a scrappy Return/PuP and do something about it.

Obviously on something bulky like Gourgeist I'm not going to even attempting to damage it and instead just take my free PuP boost. +1 Crunch is a guaranteed 2HKO on max HP/Def Gourgeist-Large, even accounting for burn on the second attack.

And bringing up a bulky Ghost kind of contradicts your point about Sucker Punch being necessary. Yes, without it he loses to faster threats that can KO him, but with it he's completely walled by Gourgeist/Trevenant/Sableye and stands a good chance at losing to Aegislash/Gengar, especially if they carry King's Shield/Disable, respectively.

Having a Ghost type on your team plus something else to stop any Scrappy shenanigans means you're worried enough about MKang to make sure you have multiple checks to him. Isn't that in and of itself a sign that he's a huge threat?

 

[alexhitman666]

^Kangaskhan won't be nailing any Ghosts soon with a pitiful 90 attack, even with Scrappy. For comparison, Gourgeist can eat an Outrage from a banded Garchomp and survive. If you forego Sucker Punch, you're basically food for Scarf users/mons above 100 base speed. And really, once Khan gets burned, unless you have a cleric, he's gone.

Also, it's not like MegaKhan players are the only one that can play the guessing game, you know. If I see an unevolved opponent's Kangaskhan and I have a Ghost type im my team, of course I will anticipate a scrappy Return/PuP and do something about it.

Using a Scrappy return/PuP could help you with the momentum on a predicted switch or assuring a 2HKO like PuP into crunch to kill Jellicent and get +1.

As for the Ghost types to counter Mega Kang, Gourgeist and Trevenant infortunately falls short thanks to Fire Punch. Gengar could use Focus Miss to kill him and Sableye can use WoW to stop his rampage. The only ghost types I could see being used to wall him is Cofragius. Predicting a contact move into Mummy will ruin Kangaskhan plan.

252 Atk Choice Band Kangaskhan Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 124-148 (38.87 - 46.39%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[DaiGuren]

He'a a huge threat, I don't deny that.

What I'm trying to bring up, and hopefully get people to understand, is that MegaKhan will have different sets of counters based on whatever moves she's carrying. Like what you said, if she foregoes sucker punch and opts for Crunch, she gets KO'd by mons faster than her. If she goes for Sucker Punch, then she gets walled by bulky Ghost types. Imo this is a very big advantage, because every player will have to scout/play the guessing game in order to counter her effectively. Imo this is the main reason why MegaKhan is a very big threat, big enough to be suspected for a ban.
Heck, I faced a MegaKhan carrying an Ice Punch, that thing decimated my Gliscor in a turn.

Now that that is established, imo what you guys should be discussing about should be on what's the optimal moveset for MegaKhan, and what kinds of checks/counters come with that moveset.

What is happening is this:

Forumer#1:

This is my moveset for MegaKhan blah blah
Move 1
Move 2
Move 3
Move 4

Forumer#2:
What about "x" pokemon? Won't it counter Your megakhan with that moveset?

Forumer#3:

You should just replace Move 1 with Move 5 to deal with "x" pokemon. Problem solved! (Forumer#3 forgot to mention that removing Move 1 from MegaKhan wille result in her gaining a new weakness)

Others:

Oh wow that megakhan has no weakness shes op yada yada yada quick ban yada yada OP what the heck is trollfreak thinking blah blah

alexhitman666

See, that's my point. What you're saying is obvious. The question is, if you run Fire Punch, what will you replace? You have PuP/Return/Fire Punch then what? EQ? Sucker Punch? Crunch? Giving up on either for those three moves will net MegaKhan a different weakness.

See my point here?

 

[Ryolain]

He'a a huge threat, I don't deny that.

What I'm trying to bring up, and hopefully get people to understand, is that MegaKhan will have different sets of counters based on whatever moves she's carrying. Like what you said, if she foregoes sucker punch and opts for Crunch, she gets KO'd by mons faster than her. If she goes for Sucker Punch, then she gets walled by bulky Ghost types. Imo this is a very big advantage, because every player will have to scout/play the guessing game in order to counter her effectively. Imo this is the main reason why MegaKhan is a very big threat, big enough to be suspected for a ban.
Heck, I faced a MegaKhan carrying an Ice Punch, that thing decimated my Gliscor in a turn.

Now that that is established, imo what you guys should be discussing about should be on what's the optimal moveset for MegaKhan, and what kinds of checks/counters come with that moveset.

What is happening is this:

Forumer#1:

This is my moveset for MegaKhan blah blah
Move 1
Move 2
Move 3
Move 4

Forumer#2:
What about "x" pokemon? Won't it counter Your megakhan with that moveset?

Forumer#3:

You should just replace Move 1 with Move 5 to deal with "x" pokemon. Problem solved! (Forumer#3 forgot to mention that removing Move 1 from MegaKhan wille result in her gaining a new weakness)

Others:

Oh wow that megakhan has no weakness shes op yada yada yada quick ban yada yada OP what the heck is trollfreak thinking blah blah

alexhitman666

See, that's my point. What you're saying is obvious. The question is, if you run Fire Punch, what will you replace? You have PuP/Return/Fire Punch then what? EQ? Sucker Punch? Crunch? Giving up on either for those three moves will net MegaKhan a different weakness.

See my point here?

Oh I agree completely, but I think there is no definitive best set since his potential checks aren't that uncommon. Crunch/EQ/Sucker Punch/Fire Punch/PuP/Return all have extremely important and commonly encountered uses, there isn't really one that you can definitively say "This is situational at best and covering X threat is more important".

 

[alexhitman666]

Kangaskhan has 4MSS like a lot of other pokemon do. If you really want the best coverage you can get you should go for something like this:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Jolly / Adamant
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Crunch / Sucker Punch

You are eliminating the powerful Return for more coverage, but PuP boosts can easily alleviate the issue. That could also surprise a few opponents that don't expect the Fire punch after you used Crunch / SP

 

[Ryolain]

Kangaskhan has 4MSS like a lot of other pokemon do. If you really want the best coverage you can get you should go for something like this:

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Jolly / Adamant
252 Att / 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Power-Up Punch
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Crunch / Sucker Punch

You are eliminating the powerful Return for more coverage, but PuP boosts can easily alleviate the issue. That could also surprise a few opponents that don't expect the Fire punch after you used Crunch / SP

The problem here is that you can't casually slash Crunch and SP as if the choice doesn't impact your coverage. Despite being the same type, they allow you to beat completely opposite threats.

 

[DaiGuren]

alexhitman666

So basically with that set, MegaKhan becomes a slower but bulkier physical Greninja(gets pseudo-STAB on every move) with the ability to boost its attack. Sounds good on paper but ryolain had a point.

Ryolain
You are right, there are no definitive best set. However, what we can do is define the better sets and discuss them as a whole while eliminating 'gimmick' sets. Imo fake out is a gimmicky move.

 

[alexhitman666]

The problem here is that you can't casually slash Crunch and SP as if the choice doesn't impact your coverage. Despite being the same type, they allow you to beat completely opposite threats.

I personally prefer Crunch to SP because prankster like Mega Banette and Sableye are just begging for the opportunity to burn you while you can't do anything to them.

I both see your point Ryolain and DaiGuren, there is no definitive Cookie Cutter moveset for Mega kangaskhan that take care of everything. I feel like that the set success will also rely on great allies that can take care of those pesky threats that will prevent a kanga sweep. Thoughts on possible allies for him ?

 

[Thorhammer]

I personally prefer Crunch to SP because prankster like Mega Banette and Sableye are just begging for the opportunity to burn you while you can't do anything to them.

They'll still slap it with a burn before it can attack, though. Sableye will just be taking a burned unstabbed neutral hit, and if you're going for that, you're better off with Earthquake anyway. Crunch can boost Kangaskhan's damage output against Banette, but with no way past Destiny Bond, Kangaskhan will still end up dead.

 

[alexhitman666]

They'll still slap it with a burn before it can attack, though. Sableye will just be taking a burned unstabbed neutral hit, and if you're going for that, you're better off with Earthquake anyway. Crunch can boost Kangaskhan's damage output against Banette, but with no way past Destiny Bond, Kangaskhan will still end up dead.

You are right. Mega Banette vs Mega kangaskhan will just end in a stalemate while kanga just burns to death. I also think of setup sweeper like Air balloon Chandelure or Aegislash that will just boost through your sucker punch attempts while you can't do anything to them without crunch.

Edit: Scratch that, Aegislash will just get decimated thanks to Fire punch

 

[Ryolain]

alexhitman666

So basically with that set, MegaKhan becomes a slower but bulkier physical Greninja(gets pseudo-STAB on every move) with the ability to boost its attack. Sounds good on paper but ryolain had a point.

Ryolain
You are right, there are no definitive best set. However, what we can do is define the better sets and discuss them as a whole while eliminating 'gimmick' sets. Imo fake out is a gimmicky move.

Yeah, that's why I didn't even list it as a viable move. The situations in which it's more useful than one of the other options are so rare that it makes it pointless.

Discussing the completely unrelated merits of Crunch and SP has me thinking, though…why not run both? With PuP and EQ you can still boost and still get steady neutral damage against anything in OU. Unless sleep deprivation is making me completely forget some obvious threat, this actually doesn't sound like a bad idea...

 

[alexhitman666]

Yeah, that's why I didn't even list it as a viable move. The situations in which it's more useful than one of the other options are so rare that it makes it pointless.

Discussing the completely unrelated merits of Crunch and SP has me thinking, though…why not run both? With PuP and EQ you can still boost and still get steady neutral damage against anything in OU. Unless sleep deprivation is making me completely forget some obvious threat, this actually doesn't sound like a bad idea...

The one threat I can see right now with a set like this is skarmory switching in and phazing you out to negate PuP boosts

 

[Thorhammer]

The one threat I can see right now with a set like this is skarmory switching in and phazing you out to negate PuP boosts

Crunch hits Skarmory slightly harder than Return; Kangaskhan's only stronger option against it is Fire Punch.