Pokémon Kangaskhan

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The problem is that database info isn't 100% accurate. Knock Off wasn't nearly as important in past generations so someone may have made a mistake, and it simply went unnoticed all these years. Again, I just tested it myself via the HGSS Move Tutor, and while Kingler could learn it, Kangaskahn could NOT learn Knock Off. It only gets the elemental punches and sucker punch from said Tutor, if you're curious.
What about platinum?
 
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 139-163 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(139, 139, 141, 144, 144, 145, 148, 150, 150, 153, 154, 157, 157, 159, 162, 163)
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 75-90 (20 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
(75, 75, 78, 78, 78, 81, 81, 81, 81, 84, 84, 84, 87, 87, 87, 90)
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 274-324 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(274, 276, 280, 283, 288, 289, 294, 297, 298, 303, 306, 310, 312, 316, 319, 324)
Pretty badly imo, considering it gets maimed by +2 Return even when going full defensive (in which case you lack the offensive presence to really do anything other than toxic)
Don't forget PuP leaves Khan at +2 after use, so it's actually going to be a lot less than a 5HKO as he racks up attack boosts.
What're the calcs on a PuP on the switch followed by a +2 Return?
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
He did the calcs already. If M-Kanga hits Porygon on the switch with PuP, then Kanga is going to OHKO it with a +2 return.
 
Don't forget PuP leaves Khan at +2 after use, so it's actually going to be a lot less than a 5HKO as he racks up attack boosts.
What're the calcs on a PuP on the switch followed by a +2 Return?
but on one hand, could Khan use PuP again and then hit with return
 
Don't forget PuP leaves Khan at +2 after use, so it's actually going to be a lot less than a 5HKO as he racks up attack boosts.
What're the calcs on a PuP on the switch followed by a +2 Return?
I posted them already. Use the 2nd and the 3rd calc.
Even with minimum damage and max defense for p2, it's still taking a minimum of 93.2%. A layer of Spikes or SR will all but guarantee P2's death.

(I know it's not a 5HKO, but the calculator directly determines the KO from the damage dealt, not factoring into account the boosts from PUP, and there's no point re-working an entire calculator just for a move. 20%-24% is a solid 5HKO.)

edit: @torty, you should just kill off P2 straight away before it has a chance to screw you over with twave or toxic
 
I need someone to answer this to me:

What would happen if Mega - Alakazam Traced parental bond? Would it work on him too ? That would make him a hard train to stop
 
It was just said that Serebii listed it. But Bulbapedia and Veekun, two other sites with good info on the games, did not. And Shroomisaur apparently just tested it and it came back negative.

Game data > websites.
Bulbapedia and Serebii aren't the most reliable sources mate. Don't know about Veekun, but like you say game data obviously has it right, which is exactly why you can't just assume that Kangaskhan doesn't get Knock Off (or that it does get it for that matter). I'd test it myself on Platinum but I have to wait 24 hours to transfer a Kanga because of internal clock, smh.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Mega alakazam would get an amazing ability that would sweep their entire team then mega kangaskhan proceeds to ohko with sucker punch.
Not quite.

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Disable
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Mega Alakazam can Mega Evolve while using Disable. It traces Parental Bond while Sucker Punch fails. Sucker Punch gets Disabled and Mega Kazam proceeds to sweep:

252+ SpA Parental Bond Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 303-357 (86 - 101.4%)

Etc.
 
Not quite.

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Disable
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Mega Alakazam can Mega Evolve while using Disable. It traces Parental Bond while Sucker Punch fails. Sucker Punch gets Disabled and Mega Kazam proceeds to sweep:

252+ SpA Parental Bond Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 303-357 (86 - 101.4%)

Etc.
50/50 at best and considering another mega Kangaskhan has the same odds, it trumps mega alakazam because its sweeping potential is much higher. In short, there is no reason to use mega alakazam as a kangaskhan check if another khan has the same odds and performs better overall
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
50/50 at best considering another mega kangaskhan has the same odds, it trumps mega alakazam because its sweeping potential is much higher
I'm not claiming that it's actually good. As far as I'm concerned, Mega Kazam is entirely underwhelming and a liability in this metagame. I was simply pointing out that your assumption that it loses outright to Sucker Punch is wrong!

Where did you get the 50/50 from? That makes no sense.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
50/50 because if you predict the disable and use return, dead alakazam.
So your reasoning is that it either happens or it doesn't?

If I flip a coin 10 times, it'll either land on heads 10 times, or it won't. That doesn't mean there's a 50/50 chance of this happening.

By the same logic, it isn't a 50/50 that Mega-Kangaskhan will either Sucker Punch or not.

[15:10] <%McGrinch> !usage Alakazam items
[15:10] <%TIBot> Focus Sash 43.897% | Alakazite 32.958% | Life Orb 17.160% | Leftovers 1.448% | Other 4.537%


Firstly, it doesn't know that the Alakazam has Alakazite, so 2/3 of the time, there's no risk of it tracing Parental Bond.

[15:11] <%McGrinch> !usage Alakazam moves
[15:11] <%TIBot> Shadow Ball 79.161% | Focus Blast 74.479% | Psychic 59.502% | Psyshock 45.912% | Dazzling Gleam 30.554% | Calm Mind 20.660% | Energy Ball 16.278% | Hidden Power Ice 14.819% | Hidden Power Fire 14.433% | Signal Beam 10.107% | Substitute 9.402% | Encore 6.433% | Other 18.259%


Secondly, Disable isn't even listed as a common move! How is the Mega-Kangaskhan user expected to predict Disable?

The probability of Sucker Punch is therefore certainly not 50/50.

[15:12] <%McGrinch> !usage kangaskhan moves
[15:12] <%TIBot> Sucker Punch 84.324% | Power-Up Punch 83.748% | Return 70.718% | Earthquake 49.376% | Fake Out 38.077% | Drain Punch 15.707% | Fire Punch 12.991% | Crunch 10.494% | Double-Edge 4.323% | Ice Punch 3.299% | Body Slam 2.810% | Substitute 2.702% | Shadow Claw 2.569% | Other 18.860%


I think you'll find that the probability will be closer to 84.324%.
 
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Ive seen this set a few times for countering Ferrothorn or Skarms

-Power-Up Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Fire Punch
-Return

There is really nothing that can hard wall this Pokemon in my opinion because of the access to Power Up Punch. Rocky Helm Skarmory or Ferrothorn but after 2 Power Up Punches this thing can really put a hole in your team
 
~snip~

[15:12] <%McGrinch> !usage kangaskhan moves
[15:12] <%TIBot> Sucker Punch 84.324% | Power-Up Punch 83.748% | Return 70.718% | Earthquake 49.376% | Fake Out 38.077% | Drain Punch 15.707% | Fire Punch 12.991% | Crunch 10.494% | Double-Edge 4.323% | Ice Punch 3.299% | Body Slam 2.810% | Substitute 2.702% | Shadow Claw 2.569% | Other 18.860%


I think you'll find that the probability will be closer to 84.324%.
Dear lord, Crunch is only 10%? Still though, as a specific answer to MegaKhan, he's right. MegaKhan HAS to sucker punch Zam, or he risks being destroyed by Focus Blast. If Zam Mega Evolves, it's absolutely capible of OHKO. If he doesn't you still risk eating it because many Zams run Choice Scarf and Trick. Suprise disable on Sucker Punch is a win.

It's a shame MegaZam is otherwise iffy.

EDIT: Wait WAT. I forgot Wifi is a comepltely different animal again. The only Zams I've seen online are trick. And that one MegaZam that was a lead and got OHKO'd by my Talonflame.
 
That's why I said 50/50 at best! With the threat of disable, Mega Kangaskan can only lose at most 50% of the time against any alakazam variant. Of course he should use sucker punch most of the time against any alakazam. But, with perfect knowledge from both sides in a situation in which there is a mega alakazam against a mega kangaskan, it is a perfect coin flip. By the time the matchup even occurs, it is most likely the player knows what kind of alakazam there is anyway. If he puts out his kanga to revenge kill, alakazam has already revealed his set. If alakazam is sent out to revenge kill mega kangaskhan, the player knows that the only way he can beat him is with disable.
 
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So I have to ask: Why was mega gengar instantly putten to ubers ban, but mega kangaskhan is not getting anything near that? This things got perfect coverage. The only thing even close to a counter is skarmory, but lets be honest here, skarmory will not last a +2 fire punch twice to the face. This thing EASILY sweeps entire teams, yet no one is even considering this thing for ubers? This thing can live all kinds of things with its bulk.
 
So I have to ask: Why was mega gengar instantly putten to ubers ban, but mega kangaskhan is not getting anything near that? This things got perfect coverage. The only thing even close to a counter is skarmory, but lets be honest here, skarmory will not last a +2 fire punch twice to the face. This thing EASILY sweeps entire teams, yet no one is even considering this thing for ubers? This thing can live all kinds of things with its bulk.
If you read back a page or three you'll find your answer. But we've been asked a few times now not to discuss tiering.
 
That's why I said 50/50 at best! With the threat of disable, Mega Kangaskan can only lose at most 50% of the time against any alakazam variant. Of course he should use sucker punch most of the time against any alakazam. But, with perfect knowledge from both sides in a situation in which there is a mega alakazam against a mega kangaskan, it is a perfect coin flip. By the time the matchup even occurs, it is most likely the player knows what kind of alakazam there is anyway. If he puts out his kanga to revenge kill, alakazam has already revealed his set. If alakazam is sent out to revenge kill mega kangaskhan, the player knows that the only way he can beat him is with disable.
If we're somehow assuming perfect knowledge on both sides, MKang just uses Return on the switch and Zam takes 200%+ damage.
 
I like using MK with Scolipede... Baton Pass(ing) a Speed Boost is really good, and Scolipede can also pass a Substitute or/and a Sworddance boost.
If you have trouble with ghosts you can just use a Pokemon with Pursuit, and if you have trouble with Steel-Types, just use Magnezone.

Yottas
 
Hey guys, what about Dusclops? I am running set like that on PS right now:

Dusclops @Eviolite
Trait : Pressure
EVs: 252Hp / 232Def / 20Sp. Def
Bold/Impish Nature

- Will-o-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Substitute
- Night Shade

I know I've recently posted something about Chandy here, but Dusclops works muuuuuch better on countering Kangaskhan (and not only her). I am pretty sure there is no way Khan can OHKO Dusclops even with +2 Crunch. Obviously after that she takes WoW to the face, and you don't have to worry about her anymore.
That's just my concept and I maybe wrong, but it simply works so great on doing its job and I just wanted to share this idea with you guys.
Greetings.
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
But guys...

...Sub Punch Kangaskhan


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Focus Punch
- Substitute

This thing is actually really good. Sub means you don't have to use Sucker Punch because faster things will be unable to revenge kill you when you're behind it. Focus Punch is stupidly strong behind a Substitute and with Parental Bond, 2HKOing even Skarmory with only a small amount of prior damage. Just a quick little post to see what you guys think of this set. I had some pretty good success with it yesterday on the ladder, but as we all know, the ladder means nothing.
 
Hey guys, what about Dusclops? I am running set like that on PS right now:

Dusclops @Eviolite
Trait : Pressure
EVs: 252Hp / 232Def / 20Sp. Def
Bold/Impish Nature

- Will-o-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Substitute
- Night Shade

I know I've recently posted something about Chandy here, but Dusclops works muuuuuch better on countering Kangaskhan (and not only her). I am pretty sure there is no way Khan can OHKO Dusclops even with +2 Crunch. Obviously after that she takes WoW to the face, and you don't have to worry about her anymore.
That's just my concept and I maybe wrong, but it simply works so great on doing its job and I just wanted to share this idea with you guys.
Greetings.
Eviolite Dusclops has been brought up, but it cripples, not counters. Scrappy PuP -> +1 Crunch -> +1 Burned Crunch will KO it, and outside of crippling MKang, what are you using that Dusclops for? Not much, so you wasted a slot on your team just to maybe beat MKang, and that's assuming your opponent doesn't have a cleric.
 
Eviolite Dusclops has been brought up, but it cripples, not counters. Scrappy PuP -> +1 Crunch -> +1 Burned Crunch will KO it, and outside of crippling MKang, what are you using that Dusclops for? Not much, so you wasted a slot on your team just to maybe beat MKang, and that's assuming your opponent doesn't have a cleric.
Right, but IMO "cripples" and "counters" in matter of physical walls and sweepers is really similar terminology. Dusclops actually works GREAT as a switch-in for Mega Evolved Khan, because she can't hit it with Scrappy PUP anymore. Also Pain Split gives Dusclops SOME kind of recovery, sometimes even more useful than moves like Recover or Roost
+It is important to remember that Clops fits in almost every team due to it's pure-ghost typing. It blocks da Rapid Spin, and can hide behind Substitute on potential switches. I simply find Dusclops being much more useful in today's (kind of) metagame than it was before. Also things like Dusknoir or Cofagrigus don't pull it off for me as much as Dusclops does.
 
But guys...

...Sub Punch Kangaskhan


Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Crunch
- Focus Punch
- Substitute

This thing is actually really good. Sub means you don't have to use Sucker Punch because faster things will be unable to revenge kill you when you're behind it. Focus Punch is stupidly strong behind a Substitute and with Parental Bond, 2HKOing even Skarmory with only a small amount of prior damage. Just a quick little post to see what you guys think of this set. I had some pretty good success with it yesterday on the ladder, but as we all know, the ladder means nothing.
I'm curious about the speed here, I'm wondering if putting those EVs in HP might be worthwhile for bigger subs that could potentially survive stuff like unboosted Mach Punches trying to break through. Is there anything in particular that MKang absolutely needs to outspeed in order to survive when using this tactic? I'm also wondering if putting Wish over Return makes sense. I know it sounds silly to lose your STAB but against neutral threats it's only 3BP more than FP anyway, and Subbing without recovery is only going to work for so long. The biggest problem I can see there is that it leaves you completely walled by Togekiss and Gliscor is a pretty unfavorable matchup too.
 
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