So far the only way to deal with M-Kang that I see is to burn it and switch like a madman while praying that you predict the incoming move correctly.
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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basically, as i found calcs that show he can get around rocky helmet stuff as he 2HKOs ferro with fire blast and garchomp with ice beam, and still being able to use PuP/Return/Sucker Punch as his core moves
so basically yes, burn him and then flail around trying to stop his ass
so basically yes, burn him and then flail around trying to stop his ass
Another way to stop him - gengar with substitute? Once he mega evolves, his only attack worth anything against gengar is sucker punch and usually just bringing out gengar is enough to force the switch; wiping his p-u-p boosts away and letting you get some momentum. If somebody's already considered that, sorry, but I don't always carry WoW or scald, so I'm wondering if there's checks other than just outspeeding him?
On a totally different note, there's no chance of MegaKhan getting banned like MGengar did, right? I'm still mad about how I bred a gastly just for its Mega, and had to re breed because I didn't have an egg move that made Gengar worth using when its Mega didn't need it.
On a totally different note, there's no chance of MegaKhan getting banned like MGengar did, right? I'm still mad about how I bred a gastly just for its Mega, and had to re breed because I didn't have an egg move that made Gengar worth using when its Mega didn't need it.
Crunch, though.
That said, not a lot of stuff likes Sub-Wisp Gengar, and Mega-Kang is... Well, frankly, its not a safe target for Gengar to try to burn. Any set without Crunch gets burned, but those with Crunch are going to do a ton of damage to Gengar through the burn. Assuming the Mega-Kanga user predicts correctly and doesn't try to Sucker Punch again, or course, but you also need to predict that he won't try to Crunch your sub. Its a weird matchup, tbh.
Gengar can do a pretty good job against already Mega Evolved Khan that are lacking Crunch but if they do run Crunch it's going kill your Gengar through sub and if you burn it will still do a ton of damage. You also have to be very careful switching Gengar into Khan if it hasn't Mevolved yet because with Gengars frail defense it wont appreciate getting hit with a Stab Return form just regular Khan.
Got it-Gengar vs MegaKhan = ?
It could work, but is too risky.
I'll just stick with Lucario who outspeeds and hits it hard with CC. I know its got flaws but it should work all right
It could work, but is too risky.
I'll just stick with Lucario who outspeeds and hits it hard with CC. I know its got flaws but it should work all right
I have to agree. During my laddering experience I usually wait to mega evolve if I see a gengar on the enemy team. An in evolved return does either a full smash or close enough for sucker punch. Trevenant is worse to deal with. Mainly trev likes to go for the willow and either curse or sub seed. My main idea of countering someone trying to beat my mega khan is to use scolipede first passing the usual boost wait for the eventual ghost switch In then with higher speed and attack go for the stab return and once dead THEN pop the mega stone.
Physically bulky Sableye works. Problem is, Talonflame and Kang are always on the same team, so Ideally you'd have rocks up too. Full HP sableye can beat talonflame too, but then it loses it's ability to switch into Kang. Volcorona is even worse, hitting from the other side and murdering Sableye.
I run Mandibuzz as my Mega Khan answer. Thing is, to kill Khan, I have to come in @ full HP on the first PuP, then eat a Return to the face while I kill it with +2 Foul Play. That's not always easy, and I often have to sac' something to it anyway to let Mandy come in safe and get off the Foul Play.
I think Sucker Punch + Crunch is smart, but that leaves you dead in the water against Mega Mawile. She'll just eat the resisted whatever and hit you with a Play Rough to the face.
I think Sucker Punch + Crunch is smart, but that leaves you dead in the water against Mega Mawile. She'll just eat the resisted whatever and hit you with a Play Rough to the face.
That is a lie. Having attempted, used, and watched good stall teams in action, I honestly cannot see how Mega Kangaskhan pounds stall as hard as people tend to imply. Pokemon is a game of planning and opportunity coverage, and it's not hard for stall to not place itsself in a position in which Mega Kangaskhan can gain an overwhlemingly large amount of momentum. Don't Pursuit trap that Pokemon with a Choiced Ttar if Kang has yet to switch in; actually take a moment to calmly scout Mega Kang's moveset before combating it upfront; maintaining patience and composure is something players have always done to tackle top offensive threats, such as early BW Dragonite, and Gyarados in DP, for in each generation. Granted, Mega Kang operates differently from the aformentioned but it's being treated the same way, and is most definitely handleable with smart play.
We're still in this... 'shiny new thing' phase. Stop being so adamant about adapting to a new, genuinely top offensive threat lol
P.S-Personally, I use SkarmCent on stall--not for the sole purpose of checking Mega Kangaskhan, but because they synergize with the team well--and have yet to have a problem with Mega Kang. On a similar note, I've yet to make a offensive team that doesn't go far out of its way to keep Mega Kang in its place; I usually pack Terrakion, Keldeo, CB Talonflame, Swift Swimmers / Chloromons / Doryuuzu, etc, so Mega Kang is pretty hardpressed to even attempt to sweep.
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I honestly think this thing hasn't even hit its peak yet; eventually people are going to learn to stop mega evolving on the first turn when the super obvious ghost switch is coming and scrappy return instead, which wacks even 252/252+ def sableye for 41.7 - 49.6%, forcing it to recover and setting up an advantage situation.
The only thing I've seen reliably stop this monster is 252/252+ def skarm, and that's only if it isn't running fire punch.
The only thing I've seen reliably stop this monster is 252/252+ def skarm, and that's only if it isn't running fire punch.
Sorry, but I've already showed that even 248/252+ Mandibuzz is not a Megakahn answer, as it is guaranteed to be KO'd by Adamant Mega Kangaskahn PuP + Return. It has a small chance to survive against Jolly versions, but Foul Play only has a 12.5% to OHKO Jolly Megakahn, so either way it's a losing proposition. Even if you come in at at 100% after sacrificing something, a +2 Adamant Return has a 25% chance to OHKO Mandibuzz.
It's been said countless times, but even Gliscor and Hippowdon risk getting KO'd. I guess people still underestimate this beast. To even think about being a Mega Kangaskahn check, you must be resistant/immune to Normal, and/or be a Rocky Helmet sacrificial offering. It's as simple as that.
From there, it depends on what coverage moves Kanga is running. EQ takes out Aegislash, Mawile, and puts Sableye in a 50/50 scenario... Crunch hits Jellicent and most Ghosts, and Fire Punch wrecks Skarm/Ferro. 4MSS is certainly Megakahn's biggest issue, but again, that's what teammates are for. Pick the coverage you need and teammates to cover the rest.
(try Magnezone if you're having trouble with Skarm/Cent/Ferro)
Two things:
1. People already do this often
2. Sableye isn't 'forced to recover' in that situation lol; and even if it does, what's the worst that can happen if it does? Mega Kang doing ass damage with PuP and getting burned on the next turn? Switching in... Uh, a specially based sweeper than can sweep in a single turn? There's not much of an advanatge in this situation when a team's powerhouse is at greater risk at than its check by staying in.
I run a successful team at 2039 with a single loss (not bragging about that, just saying im facing experienced and smart mkangashkan player)
I run Ferrothorn and subdisable gengar, and this combo is enough to stop all kangashkan not running fire punch.
Ferrothorn is the obvious first switch in, because classic kangashkan cant really touch it, so the idea is to chip away some dmg on him and force him to mega evolve.
if the guy mega evolve, it will take 25% of its life just by iron barbs and PuP. Even at +2, earthquake/crunch wont do too much and i will be able to leech seed protect to recover quite a bip of hp.
Then the guy is just basically a sub fodder for Gengar.
If kangashkan runs Crunch, its already harder, it can predict my gengar switch and destroy me. Luckily, ferrothorn can tank +2 crunch fairly well with a leech seed and between my gengar sub and ferro protect, i have little troubles to check the moves and adapt.
What i like with this combo of checks, is that they are not useless elsewhere. Gengar is still a very effective and powerful poke by itself, the subdisable set still as good, and ferrothorn will always be one of the most reliable all around wall in the game
I run Ferrothorn and subdisable gengar, and this combo is enough to stop all kangashkan not running fire punch.
Ferrothorn is the obvious first switch in, because classic kangashkan cant really touch it, so the idea is to chip away some dmg on him and force him to mega evolve.
if the guy mega evolve, it will take 25% of its life just by iron barbs and PuP. Even at +2, earthquake/crunch wont do too much and i will be able to leech seed protect to recover quite a bip of hp.
Then the guy is just basically a sub fodder for Gengar.
If kangashkan runs Crunch, its already harder, it can predict my gengar switch and destroy me. Luckily, ferrothorn can tank +2 crunch fairly well with a leech seed and between my gengar sub and ferro protect, i have little troubles to check the moves and adapt.
What i like with this combo of checks, is that they are not useless elsewhere. Gengar is still a very effective and powerful poke by itself, the subdisable set still as good, and ferrothorn will always be one of the most reliable all around wall in the game
...implying that the moment you do encounter a MegaKanga with Fire Punch, your anti-Kanga core is screwed.
The ability to invalidate most would-be anti-MegaKanga cores / switch-ins with a niche move or even a niche set while still packing massive damage output is what makes Mega-Kanga the notoriously difficult-to-counter threat it is.
Yeah i agree with you, i never said it was a counter, i just said it was my personal check.
That said, Fire Punch is ran on 12% of megakanga, and i must admit i never saw one!
Also, i personally think Mkanga should not be banworthy, just because pokebank is coming very very soon, and the muskeeters will come back. Pretty strong checks (outspeed, take advantage of sucker punch, fighting stab...).
A lot of pokemon have
Its not hard to find some pokemons with such good moves/stats/abilities they can basically give up the 4th slot for a gimmicky yet effective move. Landorus-T with hp ice is a great example of how a gimmicky thing (hp ice on physically offensive poke) became standard. Does that made them "uncounterable"? Maybe, yet some uncounterable pokemon are not this bad
That said, Fire Punch is ran on 12% of megakanga, and i must admit i never saw one!
Also, i personally think Mkanga should not be banworthy, just because pokebank is coming very very soon, and the muskeeters will come back. Pretty strong checks (outspeed, take advantage of sucker punch, fighting stab...).
A lot of pokemon have
Its not hard to find some pokemons with such good moves/stats/abilities they can basically give up the 4th slot for a gimmicky yet effective move. Landorus-T with hp ice is a great example of how a gimmicky thing (hp ice on physically offensive poke) became standard. Does that made them "uncounterable"? Maybe, yet some uncounterable pokemon are not this bad
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tbh i feel like Mandibuzz is one of the best Megakhan counters out there. if the megakhan user attempts PuP on a Mandibuzz, it's all over. Foul Play completely wrecks megakhan in one hit after a PuP and even if its running something like rock slide, Mandi can still take it on. my Mandibuzz has single handedly wrecked every megakhan i've encountered so far. never ever ever use PuP on a Mandibuzz, you will get wrecked and so many people make this mistake.
Chilled, that's probably because you're watching Yuttt, TFL, and myself mainly. Yuttt runs his Rhyperior/Skarm core, I run cofagrigus, and TFL runs sableye. All of us run rocky helmet skarmory to force damage on Khan.
But yes, it is tough for stall, simply because our 'counters' take massive amounts of damage and mainly rely on usage stats to determine what the khan will have. I get woefully destroyed by crunch, Yuttt would hate a Drain punch variant, and TFL probably is best off with all resists being sableye but is using a pokemon that doesn't have any bulk.
Just look at the calcs and how limited the top counters are. Really, Ferro (bar fire/drain punch) skarm (bar fire/drain), Sableye and Cofagrigus (can take crunch, does not enjoy it) are the best off counters. Four, and two determinant on the move pool. All other ghosts (bar perhaps spiritomb) are reliant on no crunch (and it could easily become a thing).
It might not even be that bad if there weren't four other really, really strong megas to worry about (them being Garchomp, Lucario, pinsir, Charizard X/Y). Right now, however, this overwhelming amount of power is way too much for most stall. Khan is just leading the way, and he is much more deadly than any other mega bar perhaps lucario.
Can Mandibuzz switch in on a PuP and then take a Return though? I'm a firm believer in Mandibuzz but I doubt it.
To be fair, if you read his post, he wasn't arguing that Umbreon could switch in on a PuP...
...he was saying that if he sacrifices something to Megakahn and somehow doesn't give it a PuP boost in the process (a Ghost sac?) then Umbreon can take a +2 Return and then KO back with Foul Play. Which is far from an "instant KO" by the way:
+2 0 Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 301-355 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
And vs Adamant Kanga:
+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 360-424 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 0 Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 330-388 (94 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
So yeah, Umbreon isn't an underrated response, because he's a pretty darn poor response just like Mandibuzz and most others.
As I've said many times before (and as much as I love Mandi), no, it can't.
Stop bringing these guys up. They can't switch in, they are nearly KO'd themselves and must be at 100% to even have a chance.
This thread has gotten to the point where the arguments are "<insertPokemonHere> can't switch in and can barely survive a boosted hit even at max HP but if I sacrificed something and my <Pokemon> is somehow always at 100% HP and my opponent is an idiot then <Pokemon> is a great counter/check/etc!!!"
Okay...
The thing is, most people are more interested in stopping khan than learning how to use him. Let's face it, using khan isn't that challenging. It's stopping him before he stops you that is the real point right now. What, do we want to discuss another PuP return set? Who cares? There's not much more to be done than what already has been done for his sets. The real test is whether or not we can design true counters to him or whether or not he deserves that suspect test to send him up.
I think that's a testament to how dangerous Kang is though when that's what a lot of players have to consider in order to have an answer to it. Regardless, I agree with you that after taking a better look at it Umbreon is a terrible response outside of a dual switch.
I won't call this a sure fire counter because it isn't, but I've been using Gallade on my Baton Pass team to counter Khan. My Scolipede passes speed and Iron Defense to Gallade, who OHKOs with Close Combat. A single def boost lets it take +2 Sucker Punch (which it would need to use to smack Gallade before dying) from what I can only assume are Jolly Khan. Justified gives a 2x attack boost to make it even deadlier to the next Pokemon.
I've had a few matches where I pull this off and proceed to sweep the whole team with boosted Gallade. Problem is, Fire Punch murders Scolipede if it can't get def boosts up ASAP, and Gallade can still go down if they predict the switch and Return, then chip off the last bit with sucker punch.
I've had a few matches where I pull this off and proceed to sweep the whole team with boosted Gallade. Problem is, Fire Punch murders Scolipede if it can't get def boosts up ASAP, and Gallade can still go down if they predict the switch and Return, then chip off the last bit with sucker punch.
My current go-to answer to Mega Mom is a combination of a scarfed Medicham, an encore user and Sableye.
Medicham can survive a +0 Sucker punch from Khan, and can OHKO with Hi-jump Kick. It's one of very few Pokemon that can both out-speed (with Scarf), OHKO a 100% Kangaskhan (even if she has maximum defense) and survive her unboosted Sucker Punch. With maximum defense, it's a 43.8% chance to OHKO, 100% with hazards. Mega Medicham has a speed tie with Kangaskhan, so I'd consider it inferior; I actually prefer Scarf Medicham over Mega, since Trick+Scarf cripples anything that could normally wall Medicham and Scarfed Medicham is much faster.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 372-440 (89.8 - 106.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(80HP/252Att/176Spe and Jolly is my preferred spread, it lowers only a few unimportant speed tiers but gives a bit more bulk. Feel free to suggest a better spread, I didn't put that much work into it.)
Medicham can't, however, safely switch into a Return, can't survive a boosted Sucker Punch.
But then there's Sableye. Sableye is likely the best teammate for Medicham when taking down Mega Mom. If switching Sableye into a Kangaskhan that has just switched in, the opponent will either foolishly Mega Evolve and lose scrappy (thus eliminating its ability to boost with PuP against Sableye,) or correctly NOT evolve, and instead start boosting with PuP or just start attacking with Return. Either direction the opponent takes is fine for me. Kangaskhan can use PuP twice on Sableye, but gets burned. After she's burned, switch to Medicham, which can easily take a PuP from a burned Mega Kangaskhan.
+2 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 24-29 (8.5 - 10.3%) -- possible 10HKO
But, if they decide to use Return instead of a third PuP (which is unlikely, but possible), Medicham takes quite a lot of damage.
+2 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Return vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%)
Medicham can just barely survive a +3 Burned Sucker Punch.
+3 252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 220-259 (78.2 - 92.1%)
But even when you factor in the previous PuP damage, Medicham has a pretty good chance of surviving: but will be severely damaged, and Sableye will also take a lot of damage with two PuPs. In order to prevent this, we use an Encore user. Whimsicott is IMO the best user, but if you don't want two Pranksters on your team, there's also Cinccino, Alakazam, Infernape, Jumpluff, and Accelgor, who are all solid Pokemon in their own right, can use Encore and out-speed Kangaskhan. Encore itself is also a pretty good move. I would personally choose either of Alakazam or Whimsicott, with Alakazam being the best: no one would expect Alakazam to run Encore, and with him and Medicham you have two Pokemon that could potentially mega evolve, which can keep your opponent guessing (joke's on them because neither will.)
With Encore, you can bait a Sucker Punch, switch out Medicham, and Encore Sucker Punch. This forces them to switch out (some people stay in for several turns and deplete SP's measly 8 PP, I don't know why.) If they switch out, their Kangskhan is now burned and without boosts. Medicham is still relatively healthy, but still can't safely switch in against a burned Mega Kangaskhan's Return.
Of course, if they did Mega Evolve against Medicham, you can now stall out Kangaskhan with Sableye the next time Kangaskhan switches in. Sableye can safely switch in against an EQ, even with the prior PuP damage, and then use priority Recover to stall out Kangaskhan.
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-82 (22.3 - 26.9%)
+1 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 75-88 (24.6 - 28.9%)
And, if they didn't mega evolve against Medicham, Medicham can switch in to normal Kangaskhan's Return
252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Return vs. 80 HP / 0+ Def Medicham: 85-101 (30.2 - 35.9%)
And still survive the Sucker Punch, while retaining a good chunk of its HP.
252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0+ Def Medicham: 81-96 (28.8 - 34.1%)
This method has given me a lot of success against Kangaskhan, and after reading the thread I think it might be one of the best ways to deal with her; and it's not too gimmicky. Sableye and Medicham are both good Pokemon, and Encore is a pretty good move and there are many users of it that are also good Pokemon.
It is not, however, fool proof. Your opponent could use Return when you switch out Medicham into your Encore user, KOing your encore user. In that case, I would assume that the opponent doesn't realize that Medicham is scarfed, in which case I would just try a HJK. If they THEN Sucker Punch, then they're just that damn good at predictions.
This is also only good against the most common PuP/Return/Sucker/Coverage set. The Wish/Protect/Seismic/Other set, which is IMO a bit better, can deal damage against Medicham by using Protect against HJK. They could also go for a second protect, meaning a 50/50 chance of a dead Medicham. But this set fares poorly against Sableye. There are also sets that use Substitute, which Sableye can't touch, but in which case I would just use a Phazer. Fortunately, both of these alternate movesets are much rarer.
EDIT: And for added fun, give Sableye a Rocky Helmet.
Medicham can survive a +0 Sucker punch from Khan, and can OHKO with Hi-jump Kick. It's one of very few Pokemon that can both out-speed (with Scarf), OHKO a 100% Kangaskhan (even if she has maximum defense) and survive her unboosted Sucker Punch. With maximum defense, it's a 43.8% chance to OHKO, 100% with hazards. Mega Medicham has a speed tie with Kangaskhan, so I'd consider it inferior; I actually prefer Scarf Medicham over Mega, since Trick+Scarf cripples anything that could normally wall Medicham and Scarfed Medicham is much faster.
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 178-210 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Kangaskhan: 372-440 (89.8 - 106.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
(80HP/252Att/176Spe and Jolly is my preferred spread, it lowers only a few unimportant speed tiers but gives a bit more bulk. Feel free to suggest a better spread, I didn't put that much work into it.)
Medicham can't, however, safely switch into a Return, can't survive a boosted Sucker Punch.
But then there's Sableye. Sableye is likely the best teammate for Medicham when taking down Mega Mom. If switching Sableye into a Kangaskhan that has just switched in, the opponent will either foolishly Mega Evolve and lose scrappy (thus eliminating its ability to boost with PuP against Sableye,) or correctly NOT evolve, and instead start boosting with PuP or just start attacking with Return. Either direction the opponent takes is fine for me. Kangaskhan can use PuP twice on Sableye, but gets burned. After she's burned, switch to Medicham, which can easily take a PuP from a burned Mega Kangaskhan.
+2 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 24-29 (8.5 - 10.3%) -- possible 10HKO
But, if they decide to use Return instead of a third PuP (which is unlikely, but possible), Medicham takes quite a lot of damage.
+2 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Return vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 186-220 (66.1 - 78.2%)
Medicham can just barely survive a +3 Burned Sucker Punch.
+3 252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 220-259 (78.2 - 92.1%)
But even when you factor in the previous PuP damage, Medicham has a pretty good chance of surviving: but will be severely damaged, and Sableye will also take a lot of damage with two PuPs. In order to prevent this, we use an Encore user. Whimsicott is IMO the best user, but if you don't want two Pranksters on your team, there's also Cinccino, Alakazam, Infernape, Jumpluff, and Accelgor, who are all solid Pokemon in their own right, can use Encore and out-speed Kangaskhan. Encore itself is also a pretty good move. I would personally choose either of Alakazam or Whimsicott, with Alakazam being the best: no one would expect Alakazam to run Encore, and with him and Medicham you have two Pokemon that could potentially mega evolve, which can keep your opponent guessing (joke's on them because neither will.)
With Encore, you can bait a Sucker Punch, switch out Medicham, and Encore Sucker Punch. This forces them to switch out (some people stay in for several turns and deplete SP's measly 8 PP, I don't know why.) If they switch out, their Kangskhan is now burned and without boosts. Medicham is still relatively healthy, but still can't safely switch in against a burned Mega Kangaskhan's Return.
Of course, if they did Mega Evolve against Medicham, you can now stall out Kangaskhan with Sableye the next time Kangaskhan switches in. Sableye can safely switch in against an EQ, even with the prior PuP damage, and then use priority Recover to stall out Kangaskhan.
252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-82 (22.3 - 26.9%)
+1 252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 51-60 (16.7 - 19.7%)
252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 75-88 (24.6 - 28.9%)
And, if they didn't mega evolve against Medicham, Medicham can switch in to normal Kangaskhan's Return
252+ Atk burned Kangaskhan Return vs. 80 HP / 0+ Def Medicham: 85-101 (30.2 - 35.9%)
And still survive the Sucker Punch, while retaining a good chunk of its HP.
252+ Atk Parental Bond burned Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 80 HP / 0+ Def Medicham: 81-96 (28.8 - 34.1%)
This method has given me a lot of success against Kangaskhan, and after reading the thread I think it might be one of the best ways to deal with her; and it's not too gimmicky. Sableye and Medicham are both good Pokemon, and Encore is a pretty good move and there are many users of it that are also good Pokemon.
It is not, however, fool proof. Your opponent could use Return when you switch out Medicham into your Encore user, KOing your encore user. In that case, I would assume that the opponent doesn't realize that Medicham is scarfed, in which case I would just try a HJK. If they THEN Sucker Punch, then they're just that damn good at predictions.
This is also only good against the most common PuP/Return/Sucker/Coverage set. The Wish/Protect/Seismic/Other set, which is IMO a bit better, can deal damage against Medicham by using Protect against HJK. They could also go for a second protect, meaning a 50/50 chance of a dead Medicham. But this set fares poorly against Sableye. There are also sets that use Substitute, which Sableye can't touch, but in which case I would just use a Phazer. Fortunately, both of these alternate movesets are much rarer.
EDIT: And for added fun, give Sableye a Rocky Helmet.
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Am I correct in assuming that Sableye is the only pokemon in the game that can switch in on any attack from Mega Kangaskhan and then win the 1v1 matchup?
Skarmory cant take Seismic Toss twice (which seems to be growing in popularity), and even Terrakion has a chance of getting destroyed before touching Jolly Mega Kangaskhan:
First PuP hit: 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 94-112 (29.1 - 34.6%)
Second PuP hit: +1 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-up Punch (divided by two) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: (21.3 - 25.3%)
Sucker Punch: +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 138-163 (42.7 - 50.4%)
Total damage range: 93.1 - 110.3%
Terrakion isn't remotely safe unless it's at 100%, holding leftovers, and hazards are cleared off the field. The calculator does not accurately determine the damage of PuP, because it does not factor in the second hit being at +1.
I looked into fast fighting types that can take any hit from Mega Kangaskhan on the switch, survive a +2 Sucker Punch and OHKO back. Cobalion and Terrakion are the only two pokemon that really stand a chance but are still unreliable counters. Even though there are plenty of pokemon that can easily revenge kill Mega Kangaskhan, it still has the ability to come in repeatedly and switch out after it wrecks face. Throw it on a team with a couple fighting resists and you're all set.
Skarmory cant take Seismic Toss twice (which seems to be growing in popularity), and even Terrakion has a chance of getting destroyed before touching Jolly Mega Kangaskhan:
First PuP hit: 252 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 94-112 (29.1 - 34.6%)
Second PuP hit: +1 Atk Mega Kangaskhan Power-up Punch (divided by two) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: (21.3 - 25.3%)
Sucker Punch: +2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 138-163 (42.7 - 50.4%)
Total damage range: 93.1 - 110.3%
Terrakion isn't remotely safe unless it's at 100%, holding leftovers, and hazards are cleared off the field. The calculator does not accurately determine the damage of PuP, because it does not factor in the second hit being at +1.
I looked into fast fighting types that can take any hit from Mega Kangaskhan on the switch, survive a +2 Sucker Punch and OHKO back. Cobalion and Terrakion are the only two pokemon that really stand a chance but are still unreliable counters. Even though there are plenty of pokemon that can easily revenge kill Mega Kangaskhan, it still has the ability to come in repeatedly and switch out after it wrecks face. Throw it on a team with a couple fighting resists and you're all set.
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