Seems like it comes down to Return vs PUP to be honest. Assuming you get a successful PUP off, is there anything Return kills that EQ/Crunch don't?
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Pokémon Kangaskhan
- Thread starter The Leprechaun
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How in the World can you overlooked the first sentence of your quote??
It's the rather the Crunch vs Return. For me PuP, Sucker Punch and EQ are set.
I should have worded it better. I think PUP and Return should be competing for a slot, unless Return nets KOs that Crunch and EQ don't.
Return nets a lot of KOs. It has a good selection of neutral hits, and on a neutral target, it's Kangaskhan's most powerful attack by far.
Crunch can do a few things Sucker Punch can't, but overall, it strikes me as redundant. Return, Power-Up Punch, Sucker Punch, and Earthquake are all just so good that it's hard to imagine a reason for dropping any of them, unless you're running something really similar like Double-Edge or Bulldoze.
This is the Kangaskhan I've been running and it's AMAZING, the only problem I had trouble with it is taking a decent amount of Ferrathorn's Iron Barbs, other than that it's AMAZING.
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy ---> Parental Control
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Fake Out
- Crunch
While Sucker Punch is awesome an all, it really disappoints me sometimes, and if I hapen to mega evolves already, Sableye and Spiritomb wreck me. What I like about this set though is that I out Kangaskhan normal mode and he had Spiritomb, I Fake Out-ed then PuP-ed twice then Mega Evolved and used Crunch, the swept the whole team. Not to mention with Parental Control you get so much attack with PuP. Return is a guaranteed Knock out after 1 or 2 PuPs or after a Fake Out (to everything non resistant ofc)
With this set I've wrecked every team (With Kangaskhan alone) until the 29th Battler in Mattle Maison in Super Single Battles, and had to rely on the others for the rest (Lost at 35th)
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy ---> Parental Control
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Return
- Fake Out
- Crunch
While Sucker Punch is awesome an all, it really disappoints me sometimes, and if I hapen to mega evolves already, Sableye and Spiritomb wreck me. What I like about this set though is that I out Kangaskhan normal mode and he had Spiritomb, I Fake Out-ed then PuP-ed twice then Mega Evolved and used Crunch, the swept the whole team. Not to mention with Parental Control you get so much attack with PuP. Return is a guaranteed Knock out after 1 or 2 PuPs or after a Fake Out (to everything non resistant ofc)
With this set I've wrecked every team (With Kangaskhan alone) until the 29th Battler in Mattle Maison in Super Single Battles, and had to rely on the others for the rest (Lost at 35th)
Idk about that. He let u PuP twice? and he didn't have anything faster than 100 speed to revenge kill you? Also this set lacks a way to hit steel types SE (PuP is really weak).
And I don't think its good to use AIs as an example for a good set or not in the first place. Sucker Punch is really awesome against competitive players because the movesets are better known, so you know if something is going to carry some status or not. I think I would rather go for Pup, Drain Punch, Fire Punch, and Sucker Punch.
I thought about Sucker Punch and it is really the Superior choice but really, I thought I might give Crunch a chance, and 100 Spe isn't slow at all, not to mention with +252 Spe + 31 IVs and 100 Base speed it's really hard to outspeed even in competitive battling (not on showdown, but on X&Y) without a Scarf (Most people i'm seeing are using Modest on Noivern/Jolteon and Adamant on Talonflame <--- if he's using a fire type ofc) and you set doesn't have Return OR Fake Out, I mean I can understand sacrificing Fake out but Return is a no. While Drain Punch recovers HP, certainly I'm not gonna put PuP and Drain Punch on the same set, I'd rather have EQ. Fire Punch needs Pokebank, but it's nice on Showdown. The only thing I might change on my set (Other than Crunch) is EQ instead of Fake Out, and I still love Fake Out (Better in Doubles than EQ).
Well things like gourgiest and trevenant wall this set pretty good as sucker punch won't work on a wilo-wisp. Which is why Crunch could be a better option.
I hope gengar likes the first hit of sucker punch breaking its sub, and the second hit klling it.
I don't really agree that MegaKanga needs PuP. I've found that Revenge Killer Kanga is best suited to Fake Out/Return/EQ/Sucker Punch, while bulky attacker Kanga should run EQ/Return/PuP/Crunch. I haven't used anything other than Jolly 252ATK/252/SPE/4HP but it seems to work for me.
Also, on the topic of Sucker Punch vs Crunch, that was probably mainly because I ran into an unfortunate number of teams that were better suited to handling Sucker Punch. Still though, taking down defensive ghosts is problematic without Crunch.
I find it amazing how many things take ~40% damage from Fake Out... It's unreal. Anything slower or don't have priority will fall shortly to Return/EQ afterwards, but then those guys also get hit hard by Sucker Punch. So, if you can survive taking Fake Out +Return/EQ/Sucker Punch, you now have the task of breaking through Kanga's very solid 105/100/100 defenses. Quite a monster.
Also, on the topic of Sucker Punch vs Crunch, that was probably mainly because I ran into an unfortunate number of teams that were better suited to handling Sucker Punch. Still though, taking down defensive ghosts is problematic without Crunch.
I find it amazing how many things take ~40% damage from Fake Out... It's unreal. Anything slower or don't have priority will fall shortly to Return/EQ afterwards, but then those guys also get hit hard by Sucker Punch. So, if you can survive taking Fake Out +Return/EQ/Sucker Punch, you now have the task of breaking through Kanga's very solid 105/100/100 defenses. Quite a monster.
I think talonflame is a great partner for kanga as
1. it covers fighting types and steels as it can rip them apart with it STAB moves.
2. ghost types are hit for neutral damage by talonflame, helping kanga cover them with sucker punch
3. it can help with skarmory.
I think glisor and staraptor could do the same thing as talonflame as well
1. it covers fighting types and steels as it can rip them apart with it STAB moves.
2. ghost types are hit for neutral damage by talonflame, helping kanga cover them with sucker punch
3. it can help with skarmory.
I think glisor and staraptor could do the same thing as talonflame as well
i dont know if someone said it before,but seismic toss does 200 damage thanks to parental bond.Now,i've not tested this ingame but on showdown it does.(Here's a replay http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/customgame-61683499 )If that really works like this i think it should be a good option over other moves.
I really like to run Shadow Claw on my Mega-Kang in this set which I am using on PS:
Khangaskhan@Kangaskhanite
Abilities: Scrappy
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves:
- Sucker Punch
- Return (though I could probably use Body Slam)
- Power Up Punch
- Shadow Claw
Now I know a lot of people would argue why bother with Shadow Claw when you could go for Earthquake etc. But honestly, I think it compliments it so well. After you have Mega-evolved and your opponent had seen you use Return or Power Up Punch they generally go to switch into a ghost type Pokemon who could block these moves, and it is actually quite easy to predict when they are going to do it. This thing can instantly KO a Gengar or Trevenant who thinks that they can switch in, which wouldn't care as much for an Earthquake (if Gengar hasn't mega-evolved), and they are both known to be potential status users who aren't going to give a damn for a Sucker Punch and instead just Will-O-Wisp. It is also a stronger coverage move to take out other Pokemon like Skarmory or Forretress when Power Up Punch is resisted, and now hits most things for normal damage thanks to the Ghost type move buff, which I believe compliments some of Mega-Kangs cracks. It may not be as strong as Earthquake in instances, but provides nice coverage and 2 strike extra crit chance on high crit chance Shadow Claw is also nice :)
Khangaskhan@Kangaskhanite
Abilities: Scrappy
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves:
- Sucker Punch
- Return (though I could probably use Body Slam)
- Power Up Punch
- Shadow Claw
Now I know a lot of people would argue why bother with Shadow Claw when you could go for Earthquake etc. But honestly, I think it compliments it so well. After you have Mega-evolved and your opponent had seen you use Return or Power Up Punch they generally go to switch into a ghost type Pokemon who could block these moves, and it is actually quite easy to predict when they are going to do it. This thing can instantly KO a Gengar or Trevenant who thinks that they can switch in, which wouldn't care as much for an Earthquake (if Gengar hasn't mega-evolved), and they are both known to be potential status users who aren't going to give a damn for a Sucker Punch and instead just Will-O-Wisp. It is also a stronger coverage move to take out other Pokemon like Skarmory or Forretress when Power Up Punch is resisted, and now hits most things for normal damage thanks to the Ghost type move buff, which I believe compliments some of Mega-Kangs cracks. It may not be as strong as Earthquake in instances, but provides nice coverage and 2 strike extra crit chance on high crit chance Shadow Claw is also nice :)
Seismic Toss/Crunch/Sleep Talk/Rest
Impish/Careful with 252/252 in HP and relevant defense anyone?
As a counter? Well, it's not like you're actually getting the Attack boost, since Kangaskhan isn't going to use Sucker Punch with a Justified Pokemon in its face and switching in on it means the move fails. But the fact that Terrakion and Keldeo can outspeed Kangaskhan and benefit from its priority means they'll be great revenge killers when they're released. Switching in wouldn't be so wise, though, as Terrakion gets hit super effective by Power-Up Punch and Earthquake and Keldeo takes neutral damage from Return.
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Stomp is 65 base power. Why use it over Return? Return is more likely to get OHKOs especially through sash's of pokemon like the Smerg. And why Bulldozer when again you could just go straight for the OHKO if it's super effective? Kang doesn't have recovery, so you dont want to sit there trying to set up and slow them when you can just kill them. Personally I find fake out to be very useful. You can switch in to something faster, fake out, then sucker punch for pretty much a guaranteed kill unless it's something bulky, BUT if it is bulky it prob doesnt out speed you so you can just use return or EQ to take it out. PuP is cool, but I gave up on it since Kang already gets a lot of OHKO and 2HKOs and trying to find time to use PuP usually means it will take an extra turn to get a kill which gives them more time to react.
I wish there was a better/more fun set, maybe even a paraflinch one with dizzy punch for confusion, but MKang just hits so hard already and has no real recovery to try and use it as an annoyer or set upper unless you baton pass stats to it. That set you posted seems better on a tank/wall with a lot of resistances because it requires set up and it's almost like you are TRYING to make the match last longer by slowing them and powering up. The truth is Kang prob would have KOed most things by the 3rd turn anyway or they would have sent in a will-o-wisper to cripple it.
I've done a fair bit of EV tesing and I've found that Jolly with 148 Speed and 108 HP seems optimal. It allows you to outspeed max speed Adamant Kangaskhans while building more bulk, and I can't find anything that I could have had a OHKO if I had Adamant. Adamant and Double-Edge over Jolly and Return, perhaps, but the bulk is also very welcome and more worthwhile. Am I missing any key kills that I'm not seeing?
Abilities are purely taste, but I've switched around a lot there as well and have found PUP, Earthquake, Return, Sucker Punch to work best for me. It'll get harder to chose when PokeBank comes out though.
Abilities are purely taste, but I've switched around a lot there as well and have found PUP, Earthquake, Return, Sucker Punch to work best for me. It'll get harder to chose when PokeBank comes out though.
I was working on a basic idea earlier about Mega Kangaskhan and Stomp, with me being informed that it apparently has a 51% chance to flinch, and between the two Kans is essentially a 100 BP move. I know it's more preferable to run Return, but Kangaskhan outspeeds Togekiss, while getting a STAB move that has almost as high a chance as a Serene Grace Togepi to flinch
This may have been talked about already (and in fact wouldn't surprise me if it has), but I'm curious about the viability of running Stomp on Megakhan.
This may have been talked about already (and in fact wouldn't surprise me if it has), but I'm curious about the viability of running Stomp on Megakhan.
If you're playing bankOU, you have the option of running Headbutt which is a stronger version of stomp. Assuming you outspeed, a 51% flinch roughly doubles your damage output on average. The problem with running flinch is that Mega Kanga is only 100 speed and even then, if you don't flinch, it's very troublesome for you. You're much better off using the safer and more reliable Return.
I agree with most of your post except using fake out, mostly because it soles valuable coverage because you will have to ditch some move, and that means more pokemon will wall you. and lastly if you ditch power up punch you lose set up capabilities, or you lose earthquake that makes you pretty helpless to a number of threats.
In Pokebank I run Return / PUP / Fire Punch / Sucker Punch. This lets you kill Skarmory after a boost and Ferrothorn right away, plus gives you something to hit non-mega Gengar with when he uses sub. The only downside to using fire punch over EQ is that king's shield can lower your attack if you use fire punch at the same time as it, but you can get around this with sucker punch. Sucker punch doesn't activate the attack loss at the same time as king's shield, so if you predict correctly you can still get around Aegislash. IMO it's definitely worth it to be able to take out Skarmory and regular Gengar (who, without fire punch, are the only safe switch ins I can think of).
Anyway, there's no way this long lasts long in OU. It can come in on anything except faster fighting types, a full health Aegislash, or pokes with will-o-wisp, then proceed to kill something. Walls that can take a return but can't deal much damage in return are setup bait, and that absurdly powerful sucker punch is just icing on the cake. With parental bond and the base attack from mega form (125) counted in, that sucker punch is stronger than extreme killer Arceus's extremespeed, plus it breaks substitutes. So yeah, enjoy this thing in OU while you can.
Anyway, there's no way this long lasts long in OU. It can come in on anything except faster fighting types, a full health Aegislash, or pokes with will-o-wisp, then proceed to kill something. Walls that can take a return but can't deal much damage in return are setup bait, and that absurdly powerful sucker punch is just icing on the cake. With parental bond and the base attack from mega form (125) counted in, that sucker punch is stronger than extreme killer Arceus's extremespeed, plus it breaks substitutes. So yeah, enjoy this thing in OU while you can.
Actually... only Talonflame Brave Bird and Yvetal Sucker Punch hold that honor... and Yvetal doesn't get Swords Dance. Don't forget, Extreme Killer Arceus gets STAB to make ExtremeSpeed x1.5 dmg, with x1.3 life orb on top of that. So its a fair bit stronger than MKhanga Sucker Punches.
Just making sure you know...
Trying to think of something that counters Fire Punch/Sucker Punch/PuP/Return mega kanga is leaving me drawing blanks. Literally the only thing that can really stop it is Sub/Disable regular Gengar if it predicts right and Scarfed fighters (and any Terrakion). Dusclops, Dusknoir and Jellicent can stop it with burn but they arent all too common at the moment. I guess cb talonflame can slow it down if it's weakened. Time to make a team abusing it. Does jolly miss out on any crucial kos?
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Jellicent and Sableye are perfect counters, while Gourgeist is a temporary counter (avoids the 2HKO from Fire Punch and can burn Kanga, but lacks reliable recovery and so is easy to wear down). Terrakion is also a good check, but i can't think of much else in terms of checks and counters, which is scary.
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