Kingdom Hearts (pre-III Spoilers ITT)

[Karxrida]

Kingdom Hearts is an Action RPG crossover franchise between various Disney properties and Square Enix's Final Fantasy. The story is about a boy named Sora as he travels various worlds (most based off of Disney movies with a couple of original settings) to stop people from obtaining the titular Kingdom Hearts.

There are currently 8 games in the series, not including remakes and re-releases, with more to come.

Games

By release date:

• Kingdom Hearts I (PS2)
• Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (GBA)
  
• Kingdom Hearts II (PS2)
• Kingdom Hearts Re:Chain of Memories (PS2)
  
• Kingdom Hearts coded (phones)
  
• Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days (DS)
• Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep (PSP)
• Kingdom Hearts Re:coded (DS)
  
• Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance (3DS)
• Kingdom Hearts X [chi] (PC)
• Kingdom Hearts III (PS4)

By timeline:

• Kingdom Hearts X [chi]
  
• Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep
• Kingdom Hearts I
• Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days (starts during the last part of I and ends before II)
• Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
  
• Kingdom Hearts II
• Kingdom Hearts coded
• Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance

Talk about them.

Spoilers
Anything is fair game to talk about if it came before III. For stuff concerning III, use your own judgment whether or not it needs to be hidden in hide tags.[/hide]

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Let's get this out the way. CoM is the only non KH/II/III game that has a relevant story. One would argue that it should be played before II. The rest are throwaway from a story standpoint.

And apparently there's a new trailer for III coming.

 

[Rocxidi]

Let's get this out the way. CoM is the only non KH/II/III game that has a relevant story. One would argue that it should be played before II. The rest are throwaway from a story standpoint.

And apparently there's a new trailer for III coming.

Stuff becomes alot clearer when you play the games outside of KH I and II, especially when done in chronological order. I really like what they did with the plot, especially after KHI where we experience Sora and Roxas simultaneusly. The only thing I don't like is how KHII came before everything else despite being set after in the timeline.

The trailer was supposed to be shown today but apparently there was some miscommunication and there is no trailer after all. Bummer.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Stuff becomes alot clearer when you play the games outside of KH I and II, especially when done in chronological order. I really like what they did with the plot, especially after KHI where we experience Sora and Roxas simultaneusly. The only thing I don't like is how KHII came before everything else despite being set after in the timeline.

No, the events in 358, BbS, Coded, and D3 had no real constructive effect on the overall story at all. They leave more questions in an already convoluted plot. If they were never released, it wouldn't have been a loss (not saying the game's themselves are bad).

I guess a case can be made for BbS some because it's on events way before, but even then it's just filler and filler characters.

 

[Blazade]

I'm a big fan of the KH games, and incredibly happy that FM versions of the main series games got released here. I'm actually the WR holder for the CoM Sora speedrun; that one's by far my favorite cause you can't beat the card battle system. Each of the games is pretty unique mechanics-wise though, and even the ones with problems were ultimately enjoyable for me (3D excluded).

As for the story, I would argue that only Coded had a "throwaway" story, everything else was pretty relevant in the universe and especially as it relates to the themes of the series. Days in particular offered a unique perspective on the villains KH2 sorely lacked but which CoM also had in spades for diffeent characters. BBS provided important context and was emotionally satisfying; one of my favorite story/gameplay dualities in any game is the Terra final boss, and the story of Xehanort is arguably left largely unexplored in the other games.

 

[Karxrida]

Let's get this out the way. CoM is the only non KH/II/III game that has a relevant story. One would argue that it should be played before II. The rest are throwaway from a story standpoint.

And apparently there's a new trailer for III coming.

BBS is basically "Important Backstory: the Game", of course it matters.

Days is important if only because there's hints of Xion coming back in III, but I have no idea how they're going to justify that because she basically doesn't exist anymore.

coded is totally worthless from a story perspective. Literally everything important happens in the last 15 minutes on top of it being almost completely disconnected from the game's own plot; you could have shoved that into 3D or III and called it a day. At least the gameplay is fun.

3D has a lot of important and unimportant stuff, but it's still kind of necessary because it sets up Xehanort's plan in III and the revived Org members.

Stuff becomes alot clearer when you play the games outside of KH I and II, especially when done in chronological order. I really like what they did with the plot, especially after KHI where we experience Sora and Roxas simultaneusly. The only thing I don't like is how KHII came before everything else despite being set after in the timeline.

The trailer was supposed to be shown today but apparently there was some miscommunication and there is no trailer after all. Bummer.

I would never recommend playing the stories on chronological order specifically because Days ruins the experience of II. The prologue of II is annoying but I honestly think it's written well, and it will feel pointless if you played Days first because it removes the mystery aspect of Roxas. I personally suggest playing based off of the real life release dates.

By the way, at the D23 expo there was concept art shown of a new Nobody. Pictures were not allowed at the expo because Square fucking hates us, but we know it has a scythe with a flower motif.

 

[Shinryu]

Meh with all the time they wasted with crap side stories with Organization XIII members and the prequel (and half sequel to KH2 in DDD), we could have easily had the 3rd game out last gen of consoles, yet instead they threw that crap at us and the remix shit and crappy FF-action movie games (cough13cough). Was it really that hard to not make crap and give the main KH series its long awaited 3rd part?

 

[Karxrida]

Meh with all the time they wasted with crap side stories with Organization XIII members and the prequel (and half sequel to KH2 in DDD), we could have easily had the 3rd game out last gen of consoles, yet instead they threw that crap at us and the remix shit and crappy FF-action movie games (cough13cough). Was it really that hard to not make crap and give the main KH series its long awaited 3rd part?

Relevant (and hilarious).

I don't mind. Outside of coded, all of the games are important to the plot and backstory and have been fun to play.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

They are side stories, even BbS. The problem with the prequel stuff there is that it still took them 3/4 years to release the game, on a handheld platform, which was less popular than the DS.

I like Organization XIII, but I'm not caring enough to demand multiple games on them. After II, they're dead, end of story. It doesn't help much when the game takes too long to come or and you've already built your own backstories in your head.

Explain the purpose of Xion ever existing. There was no point of her other than some sort of filler plot for Days, which made XIII look like they do nothing except sit around all day and play FBI with their cute assignments.

CoM at least was a direct sequel to the first game and came out not too long after it (and before II).

Like Shinryu said, III should have been made a long time ago. It was due by 2011. We're all old men now, we're too busy to follow the plot closely or are too feeble to remember it, lol. Thank God they released the Final Mixes though.

 

[vonFiedler]

No, the events in 358, BbS, Coded, and D3 had no real constructive effect on the overall story at all. They leave more questions in an already convoluted plot. If they were never released, it wouldn't have been a loss (not saying the game's themselves are bad).

How the hell can you say this at all when Kingdom Hearts 3 isn't even out yet? Like, I'm not a fan of the games and their convoluted side-stories at all, but BbS clearly set up the final confrontation that will end the trilogy in 3, while D3 stars Sora and Riku and takes place between 2 and 3.

On the other hand, fucking nobody played CoM before KH2.

 

[Blazade]

I don't think it pays much to complain about past games when pretty much everything I've heard says that the story/game plan has been like this since there was a decision to make more games beyond KH1. On the one hand, we could have had an earlier KH3 and a different plot for it, but I'm excited to see a game come out with this much context behind it. There's a big conflict that traces across every relevant world, game, and character, spearheaded by a villain who's survived so many incarnations of himself that he can be said to be interestingly and complexly developed. Some people liked the decision to make a bunch of side games and some people didn't. I personally enjoyed it because it allowed them to experiment with the combat system. The card battle system and panel system were very fun, and while I don't think the command system deserves to be a staple, it was also fun and well explored.

If I'm worried about anything in KH3 it's the gameplay. 3D was a big step in the wrong direction and it'll be hard to live up to the amazing beatemup KH2 was.

^Speak for yourself. I played CoM before KH2 and so did many people I knew.

 

[Shinryu]

I only played CoM before 2 because my brother got it iirc. I dunno, the whole card battle pseudo deck thing was ok, but ultimately it was just a button masher to try to get to the better ones in a deck.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I'm pretty sure a good amount of people played the GBA CoM. I sure did and loved it. It is largely a masher, but it's still strategic enough with the bosses (I liked the system in general). The PS2 version is also good, but you have to be more cautious because of the lack of delay on broken cards, wasting then if you mash too fast.

Like I said, that game came out right after the first one, so it was less of a side story than the rest.

Days was OK enough for the limitations of the DS, just with a pointless story. It was fun to link up with others (did that with the sis). Fights were fun.

I don't care if the events in BbS somewhat aligns with the rest of the series eventually. It still felt like it was drawn together far after what they came up with II. It was interesting, some, but not memorable. I cared for the gameplay (which was great) and growth system. Fortunately, the replay value was also good because of the three routes.

D3 is also in the same boat as in CoM a bit, but we're talking ten years after the first game as opposed to two.

 

[Karxrida]

I personally hated COM's battle system; I found it restrictive, complicated, and just really annoying. Riku's version was at least tolerable because the decks were premade, it had instant Deck reload, Duels could be spammed out for hits, and every Boss Card was equipped for free.

 

[Rocxidi]

I personally hated COM's battle system; I found it restrictive, complicated, and just really annoying. Riku's version was at least tolerable because the decks were premade, it had instant Deck reload, Duels could be spammed out for hits, and every Boss Card was equipped for free.

I just kept all the 9s 8s and 0s along with some enemy cards and a bunch of Clouds. it wasn't fun but whatever. At least it wasn't a turn based RPG, I hate those so much and that's why I really enjoy Kingdom Hearts.

 

[coolbiz]

Just making a quick recommendation to put another list in the OP of the games in the order of the story, to help with conversation and whatnot. Some people coming in this conversation may have not a single clue as to what you guys are talking about regarding the story.

Other than that this has always been my favorite game plot of all time. Although I've only played 1 & 2 for the ps2, and a very small amount of CoM. I never could get into CoM because those cards and stuff. I was just to acquainted with the PlayStation controls. I would say I'm looking forward to 3 but I don't have a PS4 and will never have one so I'll have fun watching a playthrough of it.

 

[Blazade]

Yeah, I hear a lot of people say they can't get into CoM cause of the cards and stuff, and I get it. It's not all that hard either once you get the hang of cardbreaking, which I guess is why some people accuse it of being a button masher. But for all the people who felt unsatisfied, I'll say that CoM is probably one of the best KH games to do a challenge run of (80 HP, speedrunning, etc) because as soon as you make the game harder, you have to get creative to do well and the game gives you a lot of ways to do that. I've been speedrunning the game for years and it's one of the most consistently interesting games to route and improvise while running to deal with card drop RNG.

KH2 also does well for challenge runs cause of the damage formula. It acts like a sigmoid, so low level runs still let you have a reasonable damage output against almost every boss, and the way drive/summon and limits interact let you get creative. I dabbled in speedrunning it a long time ago, but since then the community has produced some really fantastic looking results.

BBS, however, is poorly balanced for level 1 and such. They just kind of threw that into the game and didn't correct the damage formula for it, so the only thing you can use against most bosses past a certain point is ignite which does very small percentage based damage. In the HD remix the corrected this in a very heavyhanded way, making certain attacks ridiculously strong when the ability EXP Zero is equipped. The movement and blocking let you be almost invincible even against the hard optional bosses, but the majority of commands are extremely punishable, making fights drag in a noninteresting way.

 

[Dustflier]

I hope KH3 drops the Command Deck, it's been alright but I much prefer the original combat system. I always felt that while I was playing with the Command Deck that it basically invalidated using combos, which sucks because spamming commands is no fun at all.

Even though I really enjoyed Days I agree that it's basically just filler. It's a nice look into the inner workings of the Organization, but it really doesn't do a whole lot for the plot as a whole. I am interested to see what they do with Xion in 3, since if I'm not mistaken Sora got the data needed to revive Xion and Roxas (although it's possible I misinterpreted that part, I haven't played DDD in a while.)

I think 3D and BBS are actually pretty important to the total plot. BBS introduces us to Xehanort and Terra, Aqua, and Ventus. It also gives us a a nice amount of backstory into the rest of the world as a whole. DDD helps transition us to KH3, and it explains Xehanorts big plan while fully setting up this final confrontation. (Although the time traveling stuff was a little silly).

Re:Coded sucked

 

[Karxrida]

Just making a quick recommendation to put another list in the OP of the games in the order of the story, to help with conversation and whatnot. Some people coming in this conversation may have not a single clue as to what you guys are talking about regarding the story.

Going to do this, but if somebody walks in here blind I don't think it'll matter because of how complicated the plot is.

I hope KH3 drops the Command Deck, it's been alright but I much prefer the original combat system. I always felt that while I was playing with the Command Deck that it basically invalidated using combos, which sucks because spamming commands is no fun at all.

I believe it was confirmed that there wouldn't be a Command Deck (there's an MP bar in trailers), but I also heard that we're not getting Reaction Commands back, either. RCs are fun, so that sucks.

Even though I really enjoyed Days I agree that it's basically just filler. It's a nice look into the inner workings of the Organization, but it really doesn't do a whole lot for the plot as a whole. I am interested to see what they do with Xion in 3, since if I'm not mistaken Sora got the data needed to revive Xion and Roxas (although it's possible I misinterpreted that part, I haven't played DDD in a while.)

Ignoring Xion, it also expands on the relationship between Roxas and Axel (pretty important imo) and establishes how Axel and Saix used to be friends (not as important but still good to know).

Re:Coded sucked

The story sucked and is totally worthless, but I found the gameplay to be great. Breaking the bloxs is oddly satisfying and the Clock system was fun (Targeting Scope is the most fun ability in the history of ever).

 

[Dustflier]

Going to do this, but if somebody walks in here blind I don't think it'll matter because of how complicated the plot is.


I believe it was confirmed that there wouldn't be a Command Deck (there's an MP bar in trailers), but I also heard that we're not getting Reaction Commands back, either. RCs are fun, so that sucks.


Ignoring Xion, it also expands on the relationship between Roxas and Axel (pretty important imo) and establishes how Axel and Saix used to be friends (not as important but still good to know).


The story sucked and is totally worthless, but I found the gameplay to be great. Breaking the bloxs is oddly satisfying and the Clock system was fun (Targeting Scope is the most fun ability in the history of ever).

Aw I didn't know about no RCs, that stinks. And yeah the whole Roxas and Axel friendship is pretty important, although the Axel and Saïx situation is better expanded on in BBS, since we get to see Isa and Lea before they become Nobodies, and that helps show how their personalities changed. I'm not a fan of Re:Coded's gameplay, it was kinda tedious IMO and the game just didn't grab me, although I'm probably not the best judge because I never finished it

 

[Blazade]

Re: Coded had an enjoyable level up and combat system, probably did commands better than any of the others. I also enjoyed the opportunity for varied gameplay between worlds and really liked the system sectors. My one problem with the game is it has zero interesting bosses, real killer for me in the long run.

 

[Karxrida]

So I was doing a Any% speedrun for Terra on Beginner, but I gave up on the last boss because Terranort is bullshit.

Upon replaying BBS for that speedrun and the Ven run I did just before it, the flaws in gameplay are much more apparent to me than they were 5 years ago. It was still fun until the end, at least.

 

[Rocxidi]

i literally just spam dodge and counter, attack while they flinch, then spam dodge again.

honestly this game becomes cancerous af every now and then but at least it isnt unplayable or an obnoxious af turn based shit. the storyline pretty much destroys every flaw in the series. every character is represented x10 better than disney did. even cinderella looked kinda badass when she decided to follow terra inside the castle, that made me smile.

the fact that you can enjoy the game by just watching a plauthrough because of the amazing story is whay i love about this series. i dont have to dump a tpn of money on games and consoles to play it. i do wish i could play the rest of the games, especially kh3d. i like how they included the world ends with you, that game was pretty cool

 

[Karxrida]

I'm not saying it's a bad game, but the gameplay is pretty flawed and can get in the way of your enjoyment.

I wouldn't really call Cinderella badass in that instance, but I do love little moments like that in the series where the original characters intact with the Disney ones. Stuff like Sora squeeing over the existence of Santa Claus and being all giddy in his presence in II is just a joy to watch.

 

[Blazade]

Like I said, BBS is rough around the edges when it comes to balance/damage formula. Shotlocks, unlike limits in KH2, have their own gauge which isn't affected by anything so there's no tension when you use it or reason not to use it.

It only really gets annoying if you don't play it casually though, any attempt to optimize things leads to uninteristing results imo. That said I like bosses like Terranort quite a bit. The command system gives you unparalleled freedom and longevity in a KH game; you can set yourself up so that you infinitely heal yourself, for instance. But in the same game where they dared to do this, they dared to give you bosses that wreck you in spite of this. It forced you into a higher level of gameplay and thinking just to survive, but ultimately that endgame probably was the wrong direction, spamming extremely safe attacks and understanding movement. This doesn't get any better in a speedrun setting where you are lower level, the game assumes you'll have grinded more for some reason even though the game is really short for each character.