Pokémon Kingdra

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I playtested a 'double dance' Kingdra a bit online (draco, surf, agility, focus energy), and it works pretty dang well. There are four main pokemon who this Kingdra simply cannot get passed, and they are Ferrothorn, Azumarill, Florges, and mega Kangaskhan. Ferrothorn only takes around 25% from crit Draco, and can thus set up leech seed and do his thing easily. Azumarill doesn't take 50% from Hydro pump crit, so it can come in on a draco (or a hydro pump if you predict correctly) and take Kingdra down with play rough, Florges takes around 40% from Hydro pump, so it can toxic, wish, then protect, and toxic stall. Plus H-pump can certainly miss. I, personally, have been running surf instead. I haven't looked at it enough, but it seems to me that whatever H-pump kills, surf also can. At the least, it's not worth it to me when draco can also miss. Finally, Mega Kanga is simply faster and can ohko with return.
It's also rather difficult for Kingdra to set up and also still have enough hp to handle the large amount of priority in the meta right now. While using focus energy, if Kingdra takes too much damage, it will simply be revenge killed by Talonflame, Mamoswine, Mega-Mawile, Mega-Absol, Aegislash, or Diggersby. It's lucky that this set is not well known yet, so it does a lot better, but as time goes on, its problems will become more defined.
There were several games where I found agility a more needed boost and Kingdra could just sweep with that. Having the option to use one or the other (or in the best case scenario, both) is worth being walled by Ferro (which can be taken down if whittled down enough, crit draco still does almost 50% to standard Ferro). Kingdra is pretty dang good, despite all the new fairies on the prowl.

In response to the comment above, the reason the sniper Kingdra is more interesting than nasty plot Porygon-Z, is that it gets critical hits, which blast right through special defense boosts. Pokemon like Sigilyph and Clefairy with their cosmic power/ calm mind shenanigans, with enough boosts, will not be taken down by Porygon-Z as it will need quite a few nasty plots set up. Kingdra just needs to focus energy once, and then he can just blast right through the sdef boosts for the ohko. The same goes for Dragonite and T-tar, draco can crit right through multiscale for the ohko, and surf can crit right through the sandstorm sdef boost. These buffs are quite nice, wouldn't you say?
 
I playtested a 'double dance' Kingdra a bit online (draco, surf, agility, focus energy), and it works pretty dang well. There are four main pokemon who this Kingdra simply cannot get passed, and they are Ferrothorn, Azumarill, Florges, and mega Kangaskhan. Ferrothorn only takes around 25% from crit Draco, and can thus set up leech seed and do his thing easily. Azumarill doesn't take 50% from Hydro pump crit, so it can come in on a draco (or a hydro pump if you predict correctly) and take Kingdra down with play rough, Florges takes around 40% from Hydro pump, so it can toxic, wish, then protect, and toxic stall. Plus H-pump can certainly miss. I, personally, have been running surf instead. I haven't looked at it enough, but it seems to me that whatever H-pump kills, surf also can. At the least, it's not worth it to me when draco can also miss. Finally, Mega Kanga is simply faster and can ohko with return.
It's also rather difficult for Kingdra to set up and also still have enough hp to handle the large amount of priority in the meta right now. While using focus energy, if Kingdra takes too much damage, it will simply be revenge killed by Talonflame, Mamoswine, Mega-Mawile, Mega-Absol, Aegislash, or Diggersby. It's lucky that this set is not well known yet, so it does a lot better, but as time goes on, its problems will become more defined.
There were several games where I found agility a more needed boost and Kingdra could just sweep with that. Having the option to use one or the other (or in the best case scenario, both) is worth being walled by Ferro (which can be taken down if whittled down enough, crit draco still does almost 50% to standard Ferro). Kingdra is pretty dang good, despite all the new fairies on the prowl.

In response to the comment above, the reason the sniper Kingdra is more interesting than nasty plot Porygon-Z, is that it gets critical hits, which blast right through special defense boosts. Pokemon like Sigilyph and Clefairy with their cosmic power/ calm mind shenanigans, with enough boosts, will not be taken down by Porygon-Z as it will need quite a few nasty plots set up. Kingdra just needs to focus energy once, and then he can just blast right through the sdef boosts for the ohko. The same goes for Dragonite and T-tar, draco can crit right through multiscale for the ohko, and surf can crit right through the sandstorm sdef boost. These buffs are quite nice, wouldn't you say?
I'd also like to point out that Clefable could have unaware, and since crit boost isn't a stat boost Kingdra can't be walled while Pory-Z can. lso, I don't believe crit boosts can be hazed?
 

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
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Ferrothorn only takes around 25% from crit Draco, and can thus set up leech seed and do his thing easily. Azumarill doesn't take 50% from Hydro pump crit, so it can come in on a draco (or a hydro pump if you predict correctly) and take Kingdra down with play rough, Florges takes around 40% from Hydro pump, so it can toxic, wish, then protect, and toxic stall.
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn on a critical hit: 138-162 (39.2 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And why did you mention Mega Kangaskhan ?__?
 
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In response to the comment above, the reason the sniper Kingdra is more interesting than nasty plot Porygon-Z, is that it gets critical hits, which blast right through special defense boosts. Pokemon like Sigilyph and Clefairy with their cosmic power/ calm mind shenanigans, with enough boosts, will not be taken down by Porygon-Z as it will need quite a few nasty plots set up. Kingdra just needs to focus energy once, and then he can just blast right through the sdef boosts for the ohko. The same goes for Dragonite and T-tar, draco can crit right through multiscale for the ohko, and surf can crit right through the sandstorm sdef boost. These buffs are quite nice, wouldn't you say?
They are great, but they also come with all of the downsides that I mentioned. Less natural power, less speed, a necessity to use a boosting move, a complete dependency on item, and reliance on draco meteor over his other moves. Its a strange position to be in to be a boosting pokemon with mediocre speed, a great fear of status and no priority/healing moves also. What I'm saying, though, is not that Critdra is bad; I'm saying its not broken. It has many wonderful qualities to it as well as quite a few places where it lacks.
 
I've being using Scolipede + Kingdra as an early game sweep set up. I'm using lansat berry instead of focus energy on scolipede to pass because kingdra is just an early game hit until you die strategy for me. I try to get some iron defenses up on scolipede so I can take priority attacks with ease.

Scolipede@Lansat Berry
Timid Nature
Speed Boost
248hp/8spdef/252spd
-Iron Defense
-Protect
-Substitute
-Baton Pass

Kingdra@Scope Lens
Modest Nature
Sniper
252hp/252spatk/4spd
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Draco Meteor

I then go into Mega-Kangskhan and stall core to finish off games. Usually kingdra kills 1-3 mons and the rest is slowly taken care of by stall or khan and I've been loving it.
 
I've being using Scolipede + Kingdra as an early game sweep set up. I'm using lansat berry instead of focus energy on scolipede to pass because kingdra is just an early game hit until you die strategy for me. I try to get some iron defenses up on scolipede so I can take priority attacks with ease.

Scolipede@Lansat Berry
Timid Nature
Speed Boost
248hp/8spdef/252spd
-Iron Defense
-Protect
-Substitute
-Baton Pass

Kingdra@Scope Lens
Modest Nature
Sniper
252hp/252spatk/4spd
-Hidden Power [Fire]
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Draco Meteor

I then go into Mega-Kangskhan and stall core to finish off games. Usually kingdra kills 1-3 mons and the rest is slowly taken care of by stall or khan and I've been loving it.
I've been looking and it doesn't look like Scoli gets FE, can anyone else confirm? I would love to see a replay of it's early game effectiveness.
I really like this set, outside of taunt/trickroom if you take a defensive approach you risk bringing in a chunky sweeper, and if you're not using rock blast chances are you're just letting a +2 kingdra run train.
 
I've been looking and it doesn't look like Scoli gets FE, can anyone else confirm? I would love to see a replay of it's early game effectiveness.
I really like this set, outside of taunt/trickroom if you take a defensive approach you risk bringing in a chunky sweeper, and if you're not using rock blast chances are you're just letting a +2 kingdra run train.
I'm not using focus energy, I'm using lansat berry, I know it doesn't get FE

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68710992 here is a very quick game when I 6-0 and play around trick room though
 
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I'm not using focus energy, I'm using lansat berry, I know it doesn't get FE

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68710992 here is a very quick game when I 6-0 and play around trick room though
Sorry your wording made it seem like Scoli got it and I've been confused about whether-or-not he learns it for a while. Nice to see this pair isn't totally shut down by TR. Little weak to sashed setters and taunt on it's own but the vid makes it look like viable cheesy opener.
 
Sorry your wording made it seem like Scoli got it and I've been confused about whether-or-not he learns it for a while. Nice to see this pair isn't totally shut down by TR. Little weak to sashed setters and taunt on it's own but the vid makes it look like viable cheesy opener.
It's not suppose to be like super good. It's a gimmick that's quite fun to use. Yeah sash screws me over but it's not meant to 6-0. But taunt doesn't work on subs in game, I think it's a Showdown glitch if I recall correctly.
 
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With Lansat Berry this strategy can be used on something else other than Kingdra then. Any other potential abusers? I know this is Kingdra's topic and I shouldn't ask this here but the Critical Hits one got locked...
Well the only other sniper users are: Octillery, Drapion, Barbaracle, Beedrill, Fearow, and Ariados. It's not worth 100% crits if sniper isn't involved, not with the critical hit nerf. Kingdra really is the best abuser of this with stab draco meteor.
 
Salamence in my opinion does it better than kingdra. It lacks the power of sniper but unlike kingdra it gets intimidate for a free turn to set up. And it basically has more usable speed. It hits prrtty hard still too. Comparable to specs latios except the gimmick is that it doesn't have to switch out. It gets more coverage too.
 
That would be completely outclassed by a dragon dance set, or if you want to go mixed, a work up set. Remember, a critical hit is as strong as a +1 boost. Sniper is the only reason kingdra can use focus energy effectively. No pokemon should ever use this move unless they have sniper.
 
I'm not convinced that any of these sets are better than a Swift Swim set with Dragon Dance.

Sniper sets are powerful, but this power comes at the cost of much lower Speed, extra set-up time to fix that Speed, a vulnerability to status and heavier competition from other Dragons.
 
Swift Swim Kingdra really shouldn't be wasting precious turns of rain setting up. Specs or Life Orb all out attacking is your best bet. On the other hand, I agree that Swift Swim is generally a more effective set than Focus Energy. While it's a cool wallbreaker, it's too slow to do much to any offensive team, and it requires the loss of your item as well as a turn of setup.
 
That would be completely outclassed by a dragon dance set, or if you want to go mixed, a work up set. Remember, a critical hit is as strong as a +1 boost. Sniper is the only reason kingdra can use focus energy effectively. No pokemon should ever use this move unless they have sniper.
Work Up doesn't let you spam Draco Meteor without worrying about attack drops.

But yeah without Sniper it just isn't the same.
 
I just played against a team with Scolipede and Sniper Scope Lens Kingdra. It seemed to me to meet all the requirements of something that should be banned from OU. I could not outspeed him with any Pokemon because I couldn't stop Scolipede from getting him Speed Boosts. He then got a Focus Energy off. He proceded to Draco Meteor through my entire team, because it did not matter that he lost tons of Special Attack. His 100% crit chance just ignored it.

What's more, I'm pretty sure with Scolipede, you can run a perfect coverage set with Draco Meteor, Flash Cannon, and HP: Fire.
 
I just played against a team with Scolipede and Sniper Scope Lens Kingdra. It seemed to me to meet all the requirements of something that should be banned from OU. I could not outspeed him with any Pokemon because I couldn't stop Scolipede from getting him Speed Boosts. He then got a Focus Energy off. He proceded to Draco Meteor through my entire team, because it did not matter that he lost tons of Special Attack. His 100% crit chance just ignored it.

What's more, I'm pretty sure with Scolipede, you can run a perfect coverage set with Draco Meteor, Flash Cannon, and HP: Fire.
It's GG if Scolpiede can pass a bunch of speed boosts and/or Swords Dance to a lot of stuff.
 
You need to stop Scoli from passing. People running Scoli shenanigans have made me love running a Prankster Taunter around. Pretty much stops their Scoli in their tracks.
 
It's GG if Scolpiede can pass a bunch of speed boosts and/or Swords Dance to a lot of stuff.
I know, but Scolipede does more for Sniper Kingdra than just giving him Speed Boost. He frees up his moveset to have perfectly neutral type coverage with Draco Meteor, HP: Fire, and Flash Cannon.
 
Baton pass into kingdra is banworthy? Ever heard of priority? Taunt? Whirlwind/Roar?

Really I rarely run into problems against BP teams of any kind as they're very predictable and easily countered.
 
I just played against a team with Scolipede and Sniper Scope Lens Kingdra. It seemed to me to meet all the requirements of something that should be banned from OU. I could not outspeed him with any Pokemon because I couldn't stop Scolipede from getting him Speed Boosts. He then got a Focus Energy off. He proceded to Draco Meteor through my entire team, because it did not matter that he lost tons of Special Attack. His 100% crit chance just ignored it.

What's more, I'm pretty sure with Scolipede, you can run a perfect coverage set with Draco Meteor, Flash Cannon, and HP: Fire.
That's on you, buddy. So much of competitive play is about not letting your opponent set up on you; if your team can't stop baton pass, that's a huge problem with your team. In this case, lead with virtually any phazer and Scolipede + Kingdra are out of luck. Spam Dragon Tail on your Garchomp and your opponent will wish they hadn't resorted to such a dumb tactic in the first place.
 
I don't know why everyone's trying to baton pass speed to Kingdra for, it has great defensive typing and usable bulk, so its not that rare to get 2 turns of set up for focus energy + agility. It hates talonflame and prankster T waves, and only having its STABs make it hell if Ferrothorn is still around, but if there's only 4 pokemon that can threaten it once it sets up, I think its worth considerring.
 
This is my opinion on 'Kingdra':
Hey Toadskii I have a few comments for the video. Firstly, I never use Flash Cannon because a SE Flash Cannon does less than a neutral hydro pump. Maybe swap it out for ice beam or something. Secondly, I think Assault Vest isn't the best item for it since it really needs boosts to be powerful because it only has 95 Special Attack. However, if you want to use Assault Vest run Swift Swim instead so you can pick up a speed boost if rain is up and destroy offensive teams.
 

The Shellder Smuggler

Banned deucer.
One set that you are missing is Dragon Dance.



Kingdra
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rain Dance

This set more or less focuses on outspeeding the target. In the rain, 269 speed doubled is 538, outspeeding every pokemon in existence. And after a Dragon Dance, being pretty fast. 317 attack can be boosted to an extent after a dragon dance, and sweeping with outrage and waterfall would be pretty easy.
 
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