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CAP 10 Krilowatt Playtesting

Deck Knight said:
T
"The most annoying Jirachi in the world" is dead stopped by Wobbuwatt. Neither Iron Head nor Fire Punch can overcome its Leftovers recovery, Thunder Wave can't full para it a random Burn doesn't deplete its HP, and Krillowatt can easily stall it out. Only an odd Ice Punch on the set freeze can do anything to it.
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Why can't Krillowatt be fully paralyzed? That's not a function of Magic Guard, is it?
 
deimos said:
Magic Guard does prevent full paralysis.
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Yes, but Deck was referencing the fact that it doesn't act that way on the server. It's a known bug, but I don't know if it's going to be fixed or not. It doesn't affect Krillowatt that much tbh, especially if you're smart and switch Krill into a WoW/Toxic.
 
tennisace said:
Yes, but Deck was referencing the fact that it doesn't act that way on the server. It's a known bug, but I don't know if it's going to be fixed or not. It doesn't affect Krillowatt that much tbh, especially if you're smart and switch Krill into a WoW/Toxic.
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I posted this yesterday:

DougJustDoug said:
I don't know why the CAP server did not have the Magic Guard fix, but I have resolved that issue by updating CAP to the latest and greatest code base.
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Magic Guard is now fixed on the CAP server to the best of my knowledge. Magic Guard should now prevent full paralysis.
 
I've been playing around with a more physical/defensive krill.

Krilowatt @ Life Orb
[Magic Guard]
Brave
252 Atk / 124 SpD / 132 Def
- Ice Shard
- Overheat
- X-Scissor
- Thunder Wave

Ice Shard is one fo my favourite attacks in revenge-killing Salamence and Tyranitar, as well as Latias and other Ice-resistant (or just severely weakned) pokes. Since Ice Shard is priority, I lowered speed instead of SpA or defense stats. T-Wave is good at nabbing things switching in predicting Overheat *looks at Heatran* or against Scizor (who once paralysed can be taken down with Overheat). X-Scissor is great against Celebi switches but I could be using Discharge/Waterfall instead. I put mroe into defenses so that he lasts longer.
 
I've been winning a fair bit by masquerading Krill as a straight special attacker. In comes counter, I'm actually running a countercoat.

The sheer versatility of the thing nets so many KO's
 
Yllnath said:
It does not do what it's supposed to, it does much more.

. . .
No, the part that actually made the concept special, and gave us something really intriguing to work with, was the "but not all at once" part. That part totally failed.
Fact: My Magic Guard LO Krill took on Mence, Gengar and Metagross (not Luke, but close enough), all at once, with Ice Beam, Surf and Overheat respectively, in contrast to the pokemon specifically mentioned in the concept.
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I wasn't aware that three is considered a large number. :0
 
I think that it is pretty obvious that almost any set is viable with Krillowatt... physically offensive, special, Rest talk, parafusion, statup stealing, countercoat, revenge killer, even setup sweeping with swagger-heartswap, all combined with no entry hazard damage or lifeorb recoil. He is a beast that is nearly uncounterable unless you know his set. It CAN be easily revenge killed by a choiceband dugtrio, but without proper prediction it can't switch in fearing a surf, waterfall, icepunch, or icebeam. I just wish it was possible to make him counter LESS pokemon at once, because it seems like it takes down around 3 pokemon per match, which is NOT what the concept was for CAP 10.
 
Banryu said:
I wasn't aware that three is considered a large number. :0
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If you would've read more carefully, Reachzero himself mentioned in the concept "be able to counter Gengar, Mence and Luke.. but not all at once".

To which I replied, we can actually kill all of those 3, all at once, in one set. Even if a concept could be considered vague, the least we couldve done is making Krill not be able to get those 3 at once, since those were the only one specifically mentioned.

So no, I was not talking about a large number, I was talking about the irony that the only 3 pokemon mentioned in the concept, can be taken down in one set.
 
Yllnath said:
If you would've read more carefully, Reachzero himself mentioned in the concept "be able to counter Gengar, Mence and Luke.. but not all at once".

To which I replied, we can actually kill all of those 3, all at once, in one set. Even if a concept could be considered vague, the least we couldve done is making Krill not be able to get those 3 at once, since those were the only one specifically mentioned.

So no, I was not talking about a large number, I was talking about the irony that the only 3 pokemon mentioned in the concept, can be taken down in one set.
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Fine, but saying you were able to counter the three exact Pokemon that the concept's creator theoretically threw out there as an example is different then being able to counter an actual large number of serious threats in the current metagame (like say, more than 8) all at once. If that's what you meant, then be more specific.
 
This is so much fun. It is the ultimate combo. It relies on:
All the blissey running around
Trigger happy krilowatt with thunderbolt that fear celebi
The lack of spinners
Lack Of decent physical walls
Surprise

I'm probably ruining my strategy by telling everyone this, but I had fun with it and I'm gonna make a new team, so I see no harm

The super combo is:
Spiker Skarm
Swords Dancing Celebi
Agility Metagross

Bring in skarm on an oppurtunity where he can set up. Make sure stealth rock and a layers of spikes are up before you begin. Lay down a second layer as krilowatt comes in. Sac skarm or be ballsy and rick bringing celebi in on thunderbolt. An intellegint krilowatt player will say "i can't ko with ice beam it can OHKO me with leaf storm lets run to blissey. Swords Dance while they switch to blissey. They will be afraid and switch again. Swords dance again. Make sure celebi has minimum speed, so it can take a hit before passing. Pass to metagross. Make sure you have lefties or metal coat. Meta can take just about any hit while he agilitys. Sweep
So much fun. Needs protection from all the heatran though, so bring celebi in early game without using any of your moves, then switch to krilowatt to ind out if they have tran. Use spikes to wear it down until the sac it, then begin setup.
Requires massive prediction but works so well
/Long post/rant over
 
been using Baton Pass Krillo... once he gets 2 CMs, +3 speed, and 1 Iron Defense, nothing except Blissey can stop him. It's a tad ridiculous, lol.
 
Class said:
been using Baton Pass Krillo... once he gets 2 CMs, +3 speed, and 1 Iron Defense, nothing except Blissey can stop him. It's a tad ridiculous, lol.
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Nearly any special sweeper that gets a +2 SpA/SpD, +2 Def, and +3 Spe would be nearly unstoppable. I don't think that's a fair example of Krilowatt's power.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but generally anything powerful enough already that picks up +2 to both an attacking stat and +2 Speed becomes ridiculous. As a matter of fact, that Blissey can still stop it makes it less reliable as a Baton Pass recipient than other things like Metagross or Lucario.

My current stance on Krilowatt's success story is pretty simple:

  • Get rid of Magic Guard
  • Give Krilowatt Recover
Without the immunity to passive damage and with it being forced to use Trace as its only ability (Or some other secondary ability - I still think Intimidate might be reasonable for beating other things that Trace doesn't help with), it will be fair to put Recover on it. Once it gets Recover, it becomes something that can come in against threats that might want to attack it, heal the damage if they switch out, and keep countering its targets over the entire match. Right now, one of Krilowatt's biggest problem is once things punch it into the 60% region. Once there, Gyarados, Salamence, and other things no longer fear it as their +0 EQ or whatever puts Krilowatt down for good.

The other nice thing about getting rid of Magic Guard is that it puts LO Krilowatt down. With 10% recoils taking its toll, LO becomes a much less attractive option and Leftovers will pick up, bringing Krilowatt back in line with the "defensive utility counter" that it's supposed to be. Make note that even without LO, you can achieve the major OHKOs on things like Lucario, Salamence, Gyarados, and the other big names.

That's how I feel at current, though. Everything else seems OK about its movepool and stat distribution. It's close to being an exemplar case study in defensive utility countering, it just needs a few tweaks to really nail it.
 
As of right now, is Krilowatt considered broken/Uber material with Magic Guard? I'm curious to see if having Magic Guard on a Pokemon like Krilowatt proves it is possible to create a balanced Pokemon with Magic Guard that is OU material.
 
There are certainly more broken CAPs were they to ever get into OU in their current form. *cough*Pyroak*cough* Despite that, I think Krilowatt is pretty OK with Magic Guard and without reliable recovery. That isn't to say that I think it meets its concept as well as it should, but I definitely don't find it broken on any characteristic.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Nearly any special sweeper that gets a +2 SpA/SpD, +2 Def, and +3 Spe would be nearly unstoppable. I don't think that's a fair example of Krilowatt's power.
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to be fair, no other sweeper special sweeper takes no damage from LO, SS, Toxic Spikes, burn, etc, and Krilowatt has AMAZING bulk that lets it live crits on the switch in and still live
 
People are crazy. I would bet my two big round ass cheecks that once playtesting is over and we go back to standard, krilowatt will fulfill it's small but specific niche. It just doesn't counter anything now because since everyone is using it, no one would use something countered by something everyone uses. Once we go back to standard and things like revenankh and pyroak and stratagem go back to being sweepers, krilowatt will be perfect.
 
Uberiffic said:
People are crazy. I would bet my two big round ass cheecks that once playtesting is over and we go back to standard, krilowatt will fulfill it's small but specific niche. It just doesn't counter anything now because since everyone is using it, no one would use something countered by something everyone uses. Once we go back to standard and things like revenankh and pyroak and stratagem go back to being sweepers, krilowatt will be perfect.
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except that Krilowatt was designed for the Standard OU metagame. OU is the "standard," not CAP. what krilowatt does in the CAP metagame is irrelevant.

I haven't seen a tyranitar in a while, oddly enough. Krilowatt, of course, is everywhere. Also, my rain dance team spontaneously stopped winning yesterday with no explanation. ;_;
 
Magic Guard is now fixed on the CAP server to the best of my knowledge. Magic Guard should now prevent full paralysis.
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Off topic, but does SmogonU have that update?

I've been using the Swagger/Swap set and it's great at causing switches. Lefties > Life Orb, as those 6% each turn are much more noticeable when you aren't taking residual damage.
 
It does do too much. That is a fact. The problem was that we used the same creation process as usual (with minor changes, whatever). It has one multi purpose amazing ability that helps against everything, and another.
Then it has all round nice stats, which let it adapt in any direction it wants and take stuff from pretty much everything.
Then, like most CAP's, it has an offensive movepool twice as good as some of the best real sweepers.

You just can't make a Utility Counter from that. There really had to be a custom ability here.
 
Even though it's useless to talk about what should have been, I don't think a custom ability would've fixed Krill. Krill went wrong at the typing. It should've gotten 2 typings, good defensively, but pisspoor STABs. Besides that, a movepool with incredibly strong hits, both special and physical, but only the easily resisted type moves, like poison, steel, grass, bug, flying, etc. That way, it would always be able to counter what it has to (using HP (x) for special movetypings he doesnt boast or natural gift on physical sets), but has lousy moves to counter anything else.

There was a reason I didnt want to see Iice Beam, hell, why I was even opposed to Surf. Water is about the best neutral coverage typing there is. And Ice Beam finished the almost unresisted BoltBeam combo.


I'm wondering though. I believe the more general consensus is that the concept failed, even though we delivered a good competitive pokemon.

What is the goal of this particular stage in the process (the playtesting stage)? Only to check if something is not broken? Or also whether or not the concept has been done properly?
And what are the policies on CAP where they are deemed broken in the playtesting stage? Will there be revisions done immediately? Not saying we need to revise Krill, right away, just wondering what the official stance on this is.
 
Yllnath said:
but pisspoor STABs. Besides that, a movepool with incredibly strong hits, both special and physical, but only the easily resisted type moves, like poison, steel, grass, bug, flying, etc. That way, it would always be able to counter what it has to using Hp (x)
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And how would it then effectively counter anything that doesn't have a x4 weakness? Oh yuh...it wouldn't.
 
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