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Kyurem

Its even funnier when you take into account that LO + Nature Ice Beam does ~50% to 252/196 Sp.Def+ Natt lol.

Really though, why is everyone brushing this thing off ? Honestly just try it before you do that, you'd be surprised just how much damage this guy does from both sides of the spectrum. It makes an exemplary wall breaker.
 
King Emerald said:
I theorymoned a set, I don't know if its actually any good... But what about a bulky max sp atk set? 125/90/90 is nice, investment could make it pretty bulky while keeping 130 sp atk? Thoughts?
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Yes it could work. 415 hp/256 Def/394 SAtk. You give up speed but no one really cares since most people will either be slower, be faster, or try to hit you with priority. It really doesn't make a difference. You aren't ohkoed by Scizor with Choice Band Bullet Punch without Stealth Rock damage, isn't 2 hit koed by it even with Stealth Rock behind Reflect, takes Breloom's Technician Mach Punch even with Stealth and kills (and takes 33% behind Reflect), Roopushin does 36~% with Mach Punch although Drain Punch is a pain without Reflect as well as restoring it's health although Roopushin can't switch in on Draco Meteor since it is 2 hit koed.
 
I wish Kyurem had better super-effective coverage. It's so easy to wear him down with Life Orb (to the point where I wish he could wield Expert Belt efficiently). He's got great neutral coverage and poor super effective coverage, which, really sucks. A wish Pokemon would probably be really good with him because of this though.
 
PokéMontage said:
Really? There are no notable Pokemon to outspeed between 226 - 289?
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Not really for a bulkier Kyurem. A bulky Kyurem survivor isn't really ohkoed by anything short of Draco Meteors (or really strong physical attacks like Hi Jump Kick without Reflect) anyhow. Most Tyranitars don't invest in speed anymore, Sazandora's usually are Scarf or outspeed you anyways, Breloom is going to Mach Punch you, Zapdos can't do crap to Kyurem and fears Icebeam, Heatran is more annoying but also doesn't ohko you and fears switching in on Focus Blast although it can pretty much come in on everything else and you probably just want to switch, Dragonite is worth something but with Reflect you don't need to worry and Icebeam pretty much is a ko even through Multi-Scale, guaranteed with Life Orb/Specs, Blaziken...eh, it'll try to scare you but as long as you have Reflect up, you'll survive and if Hi Jump Kick misses it's dead although Blaziken is a pretty big deal and you don't want to give it free time. I can't really think of anything else noticeable. All of those are either things Kyurem could kill or should run like hell from. There is no real need for speed on bulky Kyurem.
 
What are people running on this? I feel like a simple set of Draco Meteor / Ice Beam / Focus Blast / HP Fire would be effective, hitting like 10 types super effectively.
 
Cshadow said:
I wish Kyurem had better super-effective coverage. It's so easy to wear him down with Life Orb (to the point where I wish he could wield Expert Belt efficiently). He's got great neutral coverage and poor super effective coverage, which, really sucks. A wish Pokemon would probably be really good with him because of this though.
Click to expand...

I think Vaporeon....would be the best choice for a wish-passer. I would say blissey,but double fighting weakness is really had. Jirachi wouldn't heal very much back thanks to the new wish mechanics...I can't think of any other passers at the moment,there's alomomola,but her special defense sucks
 
Sir Azelf said:
Really though, why is everyone brushing this thing off ?
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Because it's an ice type. That inherently makes it suck to some extent. In addition, one of its main STABs' effect is worsened by the ever-present weather conditions of OU; running Kyurem without obama seems to defeat the point.
 
Yeah this guy still wrecks things. Never underestimate the strongest Ice Beam in the game. It's a good thing rain teams are so popular, Kyu gets so many chances to switch in and start blasting things with Draco Meteor. Now that things like Roobushin and Breloom aren't as popular it just keeps getting better and better.
 
Meh.

I'd come in with a burunkeru and recover off the draco meteor.

Then if he stays in will-o-wisp.

I kind of hate that i left this forum and didn't come back in time, because the counter to my argument was so terrible i'd have liked to devastate it before this wall of posts blocked it out.

And plenty of things wreck things, but even my Gen 4 team could have handled this guy.

And plenty of pokemon-skarmory, stealth rock leads, and others-still use entry hazards. It's less common, but still happens. And those hazards just wreck kyuremu-Stealth rock and a layer of tspikes basically limits him to about one resisted switchin. Unless he gives up attack power.

And he can't really use blizzard, except on a rare hail team, and they already have too many ice types and need resists. It's possible, but lame. Otherwise, it's one good pokemon with a shitty one, so not worth it.
 
tehy said:
Meh.

I'd come in with a burunkeru and recover off the draco meteor.

Then if he stays in will-o-wisp.

I kind of hate that i left this forum and didn't come back in time, because the counter to my argument was so terrible i'd have liked to devastate it before this wall of posts blocked it out.

And plenty of things wreck things, but even my Gen 4 team could have handled this guy.

And plenty of pokemon-skarmory, stealth rock leads, and others-still use entry hazards. It's less common, but still happens. And those hazards just wreck kyuremu-Stealth rock and a layer of tspikes basically limits him to about one resisted switchin. Unless he gives up attack power.

And he can't really use blizzard, except on a rare hail team, and they already have too many ice types and need resists. It's possible, but lame. Otherwise, it's one good pokemon with a shitty one, so not worth it.
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lol seriously??? are you saying burunkeru can stomach specs draco meteors/outrages?? or skarm ice beams. if LO ice beam 2hko natt you can be sure as hell that skarm also dies and no i will no suggest blizzard since offensive haill is mounstrously hard to pull off

personally i run kyurem alongside calm mind batton pass espeon, jup funny stuff
 
Offensive Hail is about the same thing as balance, considering the fact that it doesn't really boost or weaken any common attacks the way Rain or Sun do. With that in mind, you can just make an average team with Aboma switching in every now and then to reset the weather back into favorable conditions. If you're using Kyuremu, Aboma, and four other unrelated Pokemon, you should be doing fine.
 
yeah his ice beam is fucking powerful. My 176 252 Nattrei cant even take 2 of those. this thing just rapes. Oh also with roobushin and loom NOT AS popular as it is before and the fact he bait so many things, just abuse him as a lure AND crazy attacker at the same time.

Also burungeru sucks. He counter so many things that everybody say omg insane and laugh at them its not funny.

I use torterra in OU !!
 
I'm still new to the forum but I thought of a couple things,

Kyuremu may lack offensive versatility but it more then makes up for it in sheer power

Kyuremu may not have ideal defensive typing but it has some key resistances to the common water and electric attacks

I'm also kind of reluctant to believe some of the post made because when EV'd a bulky Kyuremu wouldn't have the same offensive presence as an all out offensive Kyuremu (though it would still be strong) so one must consider Kyuremu can't both survive a Bullet Punch onslaught from Scizor then turn around an 2KO Jirachi or Nattorei

Also as stated Kyuremu is a great lure

But the synthesis of these claims can be put to use...and result in...
>Kyuremu has choiced type both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has balanced stats both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has a shallow move pool and is an effective lure


I suggestion making Kyuremu as a combination Offensive/ Defensive Force

For instance

Draco Meteor/Ice Beam/ Shadow Ball/ Reflect
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball cover 15/16 types neutrally
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball hit Steel Walls neutrally (Bronzong, Nattorei, Jirachi and Metagross)
=Lure a counter jumps in escape with a screen up
+-Gets away from Focus Blast as its inaccurate (sacrafices coverage)
+-Gets away from Hidden Power while replacing it with support option
-Heatran, Scizor and Fighting weak
 
cHAncEman1292 said:
I'm still new to the forum but I thought of a couple things,

Kyuremu may lack offensive versatility but it more then makes up for it in sheer power

Kyuremu may not have ideal defensive typing but it has some key resistances to the common water and electric attacks

I'm also kind of reluctant to believe some of the post made because when EV'd a bulky Kyuremu wouldn't have the same offensive presence as an all out offensive Kyuremu (though it would still be strong) so one must consider Kyuremu can't both survive a Bullet Punch onslaught from Scizor then turn around an 2KO Jirachi or Nattorei

Also as stated Kyuremu is a great lure

But the synthesis of these claims can be put to use...and result in...
>Kyuremu has choiced type both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has balanced stats both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has a shallow move pool and is an effective lure


I suggestion making Kyuremu as a combination Offensive/ Defensive Force

For instance

Draco Meteor/Ice Beam/ Shadow Ball/ Reflect
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball cover 15/16 types neutrally
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball hit Steel Walls neutrally (Bronzong, Nattorei, Jirachi and Metagross)
=Lure a counter jumps in escape with a screen up
+-Gets away from Focus Blast as its inaccurate (sacrafices coverage)
+-Gets away from Hidden Power while replacing it with support option
-Heatran, Scizor and Fighting weak
Click to expand...

Hidden Power Fire is superior to shadow ball. It hits every single steel harder (bar heatran, who still takes lol damage). Anything weak to shadow ball is hit neutrally and therefore almost as hard by dragon pulse/ice beam and is hit harder by Draco meteor. (Plus, nothing that really threatens it is weak to ghost).
 
Yeah, don't go dissing hail because everyone on it is an ice type.

A good hail team will have a variety of Pokemon. So, Abomasnow, Froslass, and Magneton/Magnezone make good partners.
 
cHAncEman1292 said:
I'm still new to the forum but I thought of a couple things,

Kyuremu may lack offensive versatility but it more then makes up for it in sheer power

Kyuremu may not have ideal defensive typing but it has some key resistances to the common water and electric attacks

I'm also kind of reluctant to believe some of the post made because when EV'd a bulky Kyuremu wouldn't have the same offensive presence as an all out offensive Kyuremu (though it would still be strong) so one must consider Kyuremu can't both survive a Bullet Punch onslaught from Scizor then turn around an 2KO Jirachi or Nattorei

Also as stated Kyuremu is a great lure

But the synthesis of these claims can be put to use...and result in...
>Kyuremu has choiced type both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has balanced stats both offensively and defensively
>Kyuremu has a shallow move pool and is an effective lure


I suggestion making Kyuremu as a combination Offensive/ Defensive Force

For instance

Draco Meteor/Ice Beam/ Shadow Ball/ Reflect
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball cover 15/16 types neutrally
+Ice Beam and Shadow Ball hit Steel Walls neutrally (Bronzong, Nattorei, Jirachi and Metagross)
=Lure a counter jumps in escape with a screen up
+-Gets away from Focus Blast as its inaccurate (sacrafices coverage)
+-Gets away from Hidden Power while replacing it with support option
-Heatran, Scizor and Fighting weak
Click to expand...

Yeah you can. A spread of 415 hp/394 SAtk/256 Def (giving up on speed) survives 2 choice band Bullet Punch with Reflect and turns around and koes Scizor with Hp Fire or 2 hit ko with Focus Blast. This was just in response in to the part where you said it can't do both then all of a sudden turn around and suggest a bulky offensive (my favorite type).

Reflect/Ice Beam/Draco Meteor and Focus Blast or Hp Fire is really the best move set. There is no purpose for Shadow Ball as Ghosts are hit almost as hard by its stab Icebeam and usually aren't eved special defensively anyway. Special Defensive Jirachi (404 hp/319 SDef) gives Kyurem problems as it is the only one that isn't 2 hit koed by any Kyurem, even by Specs Hp Fires without Hail which ironically does exactly 50% on average (although you should use Specs in Hail for Blizzard which 1-2 hit koes EVERYTHING barring said Jirachi, Blissey, Heatran and little else). It could use Toxic and eventually wear you out and that Doom Desire set which Doom Desire is a stab neutral move on everything that hits based on the special defense of the pokemon Doom Desire is used on, regardless of what pokemon it faces afterwards or if Jirachi dies. 404 Hp/236 SDef Jirachi (max min) however are 2 hit koed by 394 Atk HP Fire (with Hail/Spikes Life Orb and Specs or other previous damage).

Kyurem can 2 hit ko Nattorei with Focus Blast, Specs Icebeam/Blizzard, or Hp Fire (which ohkoes with Specs). It is a bad switch in no matter what.
 
Niether was your "/sarcasm" comment, when you could have just as easily said "I don't think having three Fire weak Pokemon is the best example"

tehy said:
Meh.

I'd come in with a burunkeru and recover off the draco meteor.

Then if he stays in will-o-wisp.

I kind of hate that i left this forum and didn't come back in time, because the counter to my argument was so terrible i'd have liked to devastate it before this wall of posts blocked it out.

And plenty of things wreck things, but even my Gen 4 team could have handled this guy.

And plenty of pokemon-skarmory, stealth rock leads, and others-still use entry hazards. It's less common, but still happens. And those hazards just wreck kyuremu-Stealth rock and a layer of tspikes basically limits him to about one resisted switchin. Unless he gives up attack power.

And he can't really use blizzard, except on a rare hail team, and they already have too many ice types and need resists. It's possible, but lame. Otherwise, it's one good pokemon with a shitty one, so not worth it.
Click to expand...

Skarmory, Burungeru, Nattorei, Chansey, and Blissey all get wrecked by Kyurem:

Kyurem @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 84 Atk/ 172 SAtk/ 252 Spd
Naive Nature (-SDef, +Spd)
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Focus Blast

Code: 
Kyurem Life Orb Blizzard (120 Base Power) vs. Specially Defensive Skarmory (65.3% - 77.2%)
Kyurem Life Orb Blizzard (120 Base Power) vs. Physically Defensive Skarmory (96.4% - 113.8%)

Kyurem Life Orb Outrage (120 Base Power) vs. 252 Hp/252 Def Bold Blissey (57.1% - 67.4%)
Kyurem Life Orb Outrage (120 Base Power) vs. 252 Def/252 SDef Calm Blissey (68.6% - 80.7%)
Kyurem Life Orb Outrage (120 Base Power) vs. 252 Hp/252 Def Bold Chansey @ Evolution Stone (42.3% - 50%)

Kyurem Life Orb Blizzard (120 Base Power) vs. 252 Hp/196 Def Sassy Nattorei (46.9% - 55.4%)
Kyurem Life Orb Outrage (120 Base Power) vs. 252 Hp/ 252 Def Bold Burungeru (50% - 58.9%)

Yes, being Ice-type will more often than not make you weak to Stealth Rock, but you should have ways to keep entry hazards away in this meta anyways.
 
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