Languages and Linguistics

Martin

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I skimmed over the first 3 pages and didn't see a thread about this or anything similar so if I missed it my bad.

Anyway, as implied by the title, the purpose of this thread is for people to talk about languages and linguistics. Similarly to the LGBTQ thread, there isn't any particular primary aim in this thread, and instead it is just open for people to either talk about their own language and other languages or to get advice regarding aspects of learning a particular language, be it just general learning tips or help with a specific aspect of a language that you may be finding difficult (e.g. particles in Japanese, commas and clauses in English, tenses in Spanish etc.). Alternatively, just go ahead and talk about your history with linguistics. I want to leave this thread reasonably open to ensure it is accessible to as many people as possible, so go nuts with it.

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I guess I'll start. I speak English as my first language, and in primary school I learned a small amount of French (although the school didn't try very hard; we were meant to have a lesson every week but across the three years I spent learning it we ended up having around 30 lessons in total--most of which were in the first year) and I spent my first three years of secondary school learning Spanish, which I never really engaged with and as a result came out of the three years with the only things I remember being how to count to 20, the alphabet and "voy, vas, va, vamos, vais, van" due to my teacher hammering it into our class. Back in January I started learning 日本語 and am starting to notice that I am slipping into the bad habits of not going over it much outside of the lessons which I slipped into with Spanish (although I'm showing a lot more interest in the language this time around, with me often muttering phrases in Japanese when walking home, writing random snippits of kana and kanji in lessons at school etc.). The lessons are suspended until September, so I'm going to use the summer to work through the textbook again up to the point were we left off and maybe a little further so that I can hopefully come back after the summer feeling like I have an understanding of what I have learned over the past six months.
 
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Mq

It's Megaqwer's Time!
The whole pokemon showdown and smogon is based on English language, while this is not a big thing for all, it is oddly a bit sad for me.English being my fourth language means I do get problems understanding what people say sometimes, lacking the amount of words than other people makes myself less of a good poster/contributor.Although, thanks to the same PS and smogon, it's constantly making me better in English by talking with people, looking at the room's discussion etc.I guess i still need 1-2 years?(?_?) when i could possibly have a better vocabulary in English.
Thank you.
 

Ununhexium

I closed my eyes and I slipped away...
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Next summer I think I'm going to go to Rome for a month because there's this Latin immersion camp that would be really fucking cool

Also I'm in Germany right now and I love the quotation mark placement for some reason I think it's so funny

Edit: I speak English
 
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Cresselia~~

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I think learning languages is distinctly different from learning linguistics.
Learning languages is to learn how to speak, read, write, listen to a new language.
Leaning linguistics is to learn about phonology, grammar structures , history of different languages, etc. You can end up not learning how to speak any new language at all!

However, people with basic knowledge of linguistics can learn new languages at a faster rate than people who don't.

Anyway, I think you mean "Languages".
I'm a native speaker of Cantonese.
My second language is Mandarin,
and my third language is English.
At 8 years old, I started learning Japanese.
At 13 years old, I started learning French but failed so miserably at it that I wouldn't say I know French at all.
At 16 years old, I started learning Spanish. I am now around DELE A1 in Spanish.
 

Martin

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I've updated the title to account for Cresselia~~'s input. I don't want it to be solely about languages, because linguistics are a very important part of a language imo to the point where if you are discussing one it is easy to start discussing the other by springboarding off of whichever you started with.
 

Cresselia~~

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I've updated the title to account for Cresselia~~'s input. I don't want it to be solely about languages, because linguistics are a very important part of a language imo to the point where if you are discussing one it is easy to start discussing the other by springboarding off of whichever you started with.
I think it was really difficult to learn Spanish or French if English is the only European language the person knows.
Because, English is not exactly a Latin language, and it isn't that Germanic neither. It's in the middle of the two, being influenced by both of them.
I think English grammar is insanely easy compared Spanish or French, but it was still quite difficult for a Chinese speaking person... because Chinese probably has the easiest grammar in all languages... I guess?
After learning Spanish, I found French easier. I think Spanish is probably a good entrance language towards Latin languages, it seems to be very regular and structured which is good for people who are not used to the grammar in Latin languages.

Japanese has very different grammar compared to Latin languages. But it is not easier or more difficult than Spanish. Just different.
It's very unlike Chinese, really. Japanese is in its own family, not shared by any other modern language.
A lot of people thought Japanese was very related to Chinese. But really, it's not.
 

Martin

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Yeah Chinese is immensely different from Japanese. The only thing they share in common is that Kanji uses the same symbols as simplified Chinese.

As someone who speaks English as a first language and who is more fluent in it than literally anyone else I know in person, English is not a simple language to learn relative to Spanish or French. I know you spent a long time living in England, which is probably why you thought it was an insanely easy language relative to French/Spanish, but I think that English has what is possibly the most unnecessarily complex and horrid grammatical system out of any language in the world. We have a load of these "rules" in place that it supposedly follows, but then it breaks every single one on multiple occasions. We don't have indicative particles, we can't use single-word sentences aside from when answering simple questions, we don't use gendered systems. As far as learning English goes from an outsider's standpoint it must be horrifically difficult. Similarly, from an insider's standpoint it is more difficult to learn other languages as an English speaker than it is to, say, learn French if you speak Spanish as a first language.
 

ant

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big fan of learning languages here. my first language is Spanish, but I've been in touch with English for as long as I can remember. I'm currently trying to become an English teacher (other than Web Designer). honestly you'll notice my English here can be pretty shitty but I just don't care about typing and anything. I just type whatever comes out first. I have a very strong south american accent and I dont intend on changing that, it's a part of me. although I'm taking phonology at school and stuff, I just do whatever I have to do at school and then I just like being me. my plan is going somewhere where engluish is a 1st lang and I wanna teach Spanish + web Design (or just be a freelance designer)

I can also understand many other Latin-based languages thanks to this, such as french, italian, portuguese. I'd also love to learn latin at some point, and Italian (since I'm also partially italian with documents and all, but never been there or anything)
 

Max. Optimizer

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This thread is genuinely to my gusto.

I'm from Luxembourg and currently speak 5 different languages, namely Luxembourgish (my mother tongue), French, German, English and I'm currently also learning Spanish as well.
While Luxembourgish was the first language I spoke while growing up, I started learning my first bits of German in Kindergarten and French was soon to follow during Primary School as well. Later on I also learned English, Latin and a bit of Ancient Greek as well during highschool.

However, since Ancient Greek was mainly an optional course during only on year, I have unfortunately forgotten most, if not all, of it over the the years due to the lack of practice.
Also, while I can't speak Latin fluently per se anymore, I still remember a lot of my former vocabulary, allowing me to read texts to a useful degree.

I've currently also finished my first university semester of Spanish as well and I actually liked it a lot so far.

Since my goal is to become a professional translator and maybe even an interpreter one day, I'm also keen to learn a couple more languages in a foreseeable future.
In my honest personal opinion, successful intercultural communication is the beating heart of our world that increasingly becomes more globalized on a daily base. There's hence no room for potential misinterpretations.

I recently also joined the French translation team here on Smogon. This does not only allow me to practice my French further, but it also allows me to learn more about Pokémon by translating competitive Flying Press articles in the process. That way I can put my language skills to good use even during my semester break. I hope that by tearing down language barriers for some of the French members of our community, I can contribute to the Smogon community.

In retrospect, at the end of the day I have to admit that languages have opened many doors for me over the years and that there is still more to come in a foreseeable future.

Funnily enough we all seem to speak the same language while playing Pokémon.
 
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Depends how you define fluency for me. I speak English, Spanish and Japanese but the only language I'd say I'm 100% fluent in is English. I learnt Spanish from my Argentine parents and studied it formally a bit but even when I speak with friends and family who use Spanish I still resort to a tonne of code switching blended with low class Argentinian slang. "che give me el agua porfabor"

With my Japanese its even worse. My Primary school had a very strong Japanese language program and my secondary school kinda has one too but until very recently I was functionally illiterate in Japanese. A few months ago I discovered I have the possibility of going on exchange to Japan so I've finally been getting off my ass and learning how to read and write it. Still though like with my Spanish if I speak Japanese with a friend or family member who I know speaks English weird shit starts going on.

My mum is a translator and my older brother is a linguist so I guess it runs in the family. I know a decent amount about linguistics myself but nothing compared to the rest of my family. All my family is trilingual at least so there's been a lot of pressure on me to learn languages as a kid. Back then I didn't appreciate it but now I'm glad that my family valued education and languages so much.

I want to learn another language once I feel confident in my Spanish and Japanese but I don't know which one it should be. My parents at one point sent me to French school and admittedly I didn't really try as I had no appreciation for languages back then(also I'd actually been to France and tbh I didn't really like it). My mum has suggested Hebrew to keep up with my Jewish ancestry but I don't want to learn a language just for historical purposes if I'm never gonna use it irl. I hear Korean isn't too hard for Japanese speakers and German isn't that difficult either if you already have English so maybe I'll learn one of those. I was considering Mandarin but holy shit that looks difficult. Tones and completely novel grammatical rules would be the death of me.
 
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ant

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Depends how you define fluency for me. I speak English, Spanish and Japanese but the only language I'd say I'm 100% fluent in is English. I learnt Spanish from my Argentine parents and studied it formally a bit but even when I speak with friends and family who use Spanish I still resort to a tonne of code switching blended with low class Argentinian slang. "che give me el agua porfabor"
Can confirm that this is how all of us speak. Even the high classes. For real though, as an Argentinian myself I'm p interested about this. Did your parents move for work or whatever else? Do they ever speak Spanish anymore
 
Can confirm that this is how all of us speak. Even the high classes. For real though, as an Argentinian myself I'm p interested about this. Did your parents move for work or whatever else? Do they ever speak Spanish anymore
They moved because I quote "we didn't want to raise kids in a country like Argentina" so uhhh...
They still speak Spanish to eachother completely but to me they code switch a lot. I also never learnt how to formally write Spanish so I have no clue where things like accents go. I can speak purely in Spanish at a fairly fluent level if I force myself to but its really difficult.
 
Turkish native speaker here, fluent in English, upper intermediate (CEFL B2.1) in German. I can also read Old Anatolian/Ottoman Turkish. If any of you want a language exchange with Turkish hit me up. I'm pretty interested in linguistics and etymology, so I'll be following this thread I guess?

Also this kinda bugs me:

Because, English is not exactly a Latin language, and it isn't that Germanic neither. It's in the middle of the two, being influenced by both of them.
English has been heavily influenced by French and Latin, but it's a Germanic language.
 
I'm a native Hebrew speaker myself, fluent in English and have been learning Arabic for the last two years.
Hebrew itself is quite a hard langauge to learn as it has many complicated grammatical rules for example multiple punctuation symbols making it hard for newcomers to read texts in hebrew. However Hebrew is a semitic langauge and so most of those rules are applied to Arabic aswell which it an easier learning experience.

Learning Arabic is really improtent to me as I live in israel and come in touch with many palestinians each day and hopefully one day I'll be able to use it for a good cause.

Anyways one weird thing that I've noticed is that because Hebrew is such an uncommon langauge most people who don't speak Hebrew mistake it for like every langauge besides hebrew or Arabic. Like When I was visting Amercia someone thought I was speaking Mexican
 

Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
I'm a native Hebrew speaker myself, fluent in English and have been learning Arabic for the last two years.
Hebrew itself is quite a hard langauge to learn as it has many complicated grammatical rules for example multiple punctuation symbols making it hard for newcomers to read texts in hebrew. However Hebrew is a semitic langauge and so most of those rules are applied to Arabic aswell which it an easier learning experience.

Learning Arabic is really improtent to me as I live in israel and come in touch with many palestinians each day and hopefully one day I'll be able to use it for a good cause.

Anyways one weird thing that I've noticed is that because Hebrew is such an uncommon langauge most people who don't speak Hebrew mistake it for like every langauge besides hebrew or Arabic. Like When I was visting Amercia someone thought I was speaking Mexican
Mexican? lol
Mexican language doesn't even exist.
 

Chou Toshio

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I think it was really difficult to learn Spanish or French if English is the only European language the person knows.
Because, English is not exactly a Latin language, and it isn't that Germanic neither. It's in the middle of the two, being influenced by both of them.
I think English grammar is insanely easy compared Spanish or French, but it was still quite difficult for a Chinese speaking person... because Chinese probably has the easiest grammar in all languages... I guess?
After learning Spanish, I found French easier. I think Spanish is probably a good entrance language towards Latin languages, it seems to be very regular and structured which is good for people who are not used to the grammar in Latin languages.

Japanese has very different grammar compared to Latin languages. But it is not easier or more difficult than Spanish. Just different.
It's very unlike Chinese, really. Japanese is in its own family, not shared by any other modern language.
A lot of people thought Japanese was very related to Chinese. But really, it's not.
I agree with Chinese arguably having the world's easiest, most logical grammar-- but it's only possible because of all the insanity around tones. What a nightmare for a non-native to learn!

Japanese is totally different from Chinese, except for having adopted many of Chinese's words along with its characters.

Japanese isn't isolated though-- it's an Altaic language with grammar almost identical to Korean, and having relatives throughout Northern Asia and is even distantly related to Turkish.

Japanese also has shared roots with languages in Micronesia and Polynesia-- which is why I think it has almost identical phonetics with Hawaiian, lol.


Edit: debunked'd by fat Wikipedia
 
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Cresselia~~

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I agree with Chinese arguably having the world's easiest, most logical grammar-- but it's only possible because of all the insanity around tones. What a nightmare for a non-native to learn!

Japanese is totally different from Chinese, except for having adopted many of Chinese's words along with its characters.

Japanese isn't isolated though-- it's an Altaic language with grammar almost identical to Korean, and having relatives throughout Northern Asia and is even distantly related to Turkish.

Japanese also has shared roots with languages in Micronesia and Polynesia-- which is why I think it has almost identical phonetics with Hawaiian, lol.
Japanese is regrouped into Altaic language?
Oh well, I haven't been updated myself enough.
 

Martin

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初めまして。俺マーチンです。英語とメキシコ語を話します。よろしく。
I sincerely hope I didn't mess that up :s
 
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Cresselia~~

Junichi Masuda likes this!!
初めまして。俺はマーチンです。英語とメキシコ語を話します。よろしく。
I sincerely hope I didn't mess that up :s
I think you might need to put a dot between [REDACTED] and Martin, because they are 2 words.

Martin edit: redacted PII
 
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vonFiedler

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Points for not watashi waing us, but your casual ore conflicts with the use of desu and masu, esp when you're on the internet and using periods.
Also I know jack shit about communicating in japanese but if Shirou Emiya never started and ended a paragraph with "nice to meet you" I doubt any japanese person ever has.
 

Martin

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Points for not watashi waing us, but your casual ore conflicts with the use of desu and masu, esp when you're on the internet and using periods.
Also I know jack shit about communicating in japanese but if Shirou Emiya never started and ended a paragraph with "nice to meet you" I doubt any japanese person ever has.
In hindsight the「俺」probably wasn't that appropriate for this context as I was using a very formal introduction (tbh I only really used it 'cause I've not actually got around to using it yet), and similarly I should have probably used「よろしくお願いします」as opposed to a simple「よろしく」to match the formal tone of an introduction with「です。」That said, from what I've been told by my Japanese teacher, you would say "Nice to meet you" (technically speaking it's kinda along the lines of "please be nice to me") if you were making a formal introduction such as when you're introducing yourself to your new colleagues/boss at work or when exchanging business cards.
 

Chou Toshio

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Japanese is regrouped into Altaic language?
Oh well, I haven't been updated myself enough.
Nope, I looked it up now and apparently the Altaic group as a concept is dead
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_the_Japonic_languages
Says Japonic languages (Japanese and native Okinowan language) are an independent group but Connection to Korean is widely accepted as a theory. Close phonetic make the link to Austrasian (Micronesia/Polynesia) also a well known theory.


Also, introduce yourselves like this:
初めまして。[お名前]と申します。お世話になっております。お目にかかり大変光栄でございます。本日の投稿をお読みになり、大変恐縮でございます。日本語がまだまだ未熟のためにいろいろご迷惑をおかけすることもあると思いますが、今後とも何卒よろしくお願いいたします。

よろしくお願いいたします
よろしくお願いいたします
よろしくお願いいたします
Then you clap two times, bow twice, and do the hokey-pokey as you turn yourself around.
よろしくお願いいたしますすすす

All you rude Gaijin!!!
 
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