Latios (Ubers Analysis) QC (3/3) GP (3/2) ready for upload

[Yonko7]

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I've been meaning to get to this, it's so long o.o

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C/E

[Overview]

<p>When looking upon Latios's disappointing base stats, one may question why it he should be allowed in the Ubers tier. Its His sub-par bulk and lower thean average Special Attack only make it look unappealing to the eye. Its Latios's typing grants it him a weakness to the rampant Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Bug-type attacks in the metagame, only offering resistances to the rare Grass-, Electric-, Water-, Fire-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-type attacks in return, along with little offensive synergy in its his STABs. Its His movepool lacks the ability to hit Steel-types hard, forcing it Latios to use the weather reliant Surf, Hidden Power Fire, and Thunder for coverage. Then what is it that makes this jet plane him what is likely one of the most deadly sweepers in the game? How could such a pitiful plane he hope to soar above the rest of the metagame in a role it that he would initially appear outclassed? The answer is simple-- Soul Dew. The boost Soul Dew provides to Latios's mediocre stats allows it him smite ithis fellow dragons with ease, raising its Latios's bulk to respectable levels and boosting its his Special Attack so that it he can take full advantage of its his Speed, ability, and resistances-- allowing it Latios to rival the titans that terrorize the Ubers metagame. Soul Dew will not make Latios perfect however; its his movepool remains barren, ithis physical defense-- feeble. Latias's existence alone often makes others look the other way as it too can also rob Soul Dew of its benefits, boasting defense that makes Latios drool. Not all is lost for Latios though, it he can truly still can be a threat (How do you think this analysis got here huh?). By taking advantage of its his colossal Special Attack and an ironically distinguished support movepool, Latios can remind all of ithis forgotten power.</p>

[SET]
Name: Calm Mind
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Psyshock
Move 3: Dragon Pulse <- Guys why is that happening, I DID NOTHING I TELL YOU I'm assuming this is gonna go? :P
Move 4: Surf / Thunder / Roost
Item: Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's mediocre Special Defense, huge Speed, and monstrous Special Attack allows it him to effectively run a Calm Mind set. Calm Mind is the crux of the set, powering up his already high Special Attack while bolstering his defenses, making him less prone to being revenge killed. Psyshock and Dragon Pulse form the bread-and-butter of the set, allowing Latios to essentially go mixed, while also providing the dragon a way to severely dent the pink blobs that may try to stop his sweep. However, if you feel that Psyshock provides little coverage and have a way around Blissey and Chansey, you may opt to use either Surf, Thunder, or Roost in the second moveslot. The former two moves hit Steel-Types neutrally while the latter provides reliable recovery that allows Latios to more easily obtain more Calm Minds. The last moveslot is your option to hit Steel-types. Surf allows Latios to beat down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel-Arceus in the rain, thanks to the psuedo-STAB it rain brings. Thunder is also a handy tool for shocking enemy Steel-types, giving Latios a handy 30% chance to instantly cripple a Pokemon for the rest of the match. However, if you feel hitting Steel-types neutrally is unnecessary, then you may opt to use Roost, which lengthens Latios's longevity, easily allowing him to gain more thean one Calm Mind.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios appreciates Stealth Rock and Spikes support, as it can weaken some of its his enemy'sies so that then they can fall into the OHKO range of an OHKO from one of its his moves. Ferrothorn and Forretress can easily set up these coveted hazards, while also being able to easily switch into the move Latios loathes-- Outrage. In exchange, Latios synergizes nicely with the spikers spike-users, resisting Fire-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and or Forretress.</p>

<p>Latios also enjoys dual screen and Wobbufett support. Light Screen and Reflect will easily allow Latios to set up multiple Calm Minds in the face of any move while also patching up its his weak defensive stat and making it him less prone to being revenge killed. Wobbuffet will gurantee guarantees that Latios will always be able to safely setup one Calm Mind, courtesy of to its access to Encore and Shadow Tag. Wobbufett can also become an invaluable trapper for Latios, instantly removing its revenge killers with Counter and Mirror Coat.</p>

<p>Lastly, Latios enjoys Kyogre support. Not only does Kyogre power up Latios's Surf, increase Thunder's accuracy, and maim Ferrothorn and Chansey, it also can effectively combat Tyranitar, who otherwise can trap and Pursuit Latios to it his doom. If one wants to avoid this scenario at all costs without running Kyogre support, then they can run Grass Knot in the fourth slot over the other moves to maul Tyranitar, 2HKOing in sand. However, this is not recommended, as Latios will now struggle to deal damage to Steel-types.</p>

[SET]
name: All-out Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Psyshock / Roost / Dragon Pulse
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios variant attempts to take advantage of the free Calm Mind boost offered by Soul Dew to instantly begin bombarding the enemy with powerful special attacks. Draco Meteor's power is enormous, boasting the ability to OHKO virtually everything that doesn't not resist it and is not named Blissey or Chansey. Thunder allows Latios to ruin Kyogre and Manaphy, while also providing decent coverage, however its reliance on rain is may render it useless on certain teams. Grass Knot is a suitable alternative, while it is incapable of dealing damage to Manaphy and enemy Steel-Types, it can take an enormous chunk of health out of opposing Groudon, Kyogre, and Tyranitar, regardless of the weather. The third moveslot allows Latios to hit Steel-types. Hidden Power Fire allows Latios to maims enemy Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Excadrill in the Sun at the cost of losing the ability to speed tie with other Latios and Latias. Surf keeps Latios's ability to speed tie with these Pokemon, in exchange for leaving Latios at the mercy of the aforementioned enemiesenemy Ferrothorn Latios would be at the mercy of the Pokemon who would be hit by HP Fire, not only Ferro. At least that what I think... I don't play Ubers much. The last slot is reserved for Latios to use a STAB move that doesn't instantly cripple him. Dragon Pulse is a strong, reliable STAB while Psyshock gives Latios the ability to damage Blissey and Chansey. However, if you feel that an extra STAB move is unnecessary, then you may opt to use Roost to heighten Latios's longevity.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Similar to the last set, Latios finds Groudon and Kyogre to be great teammates Removed space, 'teammates' is one word . Not only do they make Latios's Surf and Hidden Power Fire more destructive, they provide fabulous offensive and defensive synergy as well. Kyogre can easily crush any Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Tyranitar that may stand in the way of Latios with a powerful Specs Water Spout while Latios is easily capable of destroying the few Pokemons that can switch into the dreaded spout-- Giratina, Latias, and Gastrodon-- with a STAB, Soul Dew boosted, Draco Meteor. Groudon also makes shortwork of the aforementioned threats with Fire Punch and Earthquake and can also provide Latios with Stealth Rock support, a tool that helps Latios beat down Multiscale Lugia and Regenerator Ho-oh.</p>

<p>Stealth Rock is not the only support this jet plane appreciates, Spikes and Toxic Spikes are also appreciated. Like the last set, Ferrothorn and Forretress are wonderful partners, thanks to their good defensive synergy with Latios and their ability to instantly litter the field with hazards. However, Comma these partners are can also Latios's worst enemies should they not be on his side in battle. If Latios doesn't not pack Hidden Power Fire, then Ferrothorn will have little trouble absorbing Latios's attacks, it's capable of using the poor dragon as setup for more Spikes, while easily being able to recovering all the damage it takes with Leech Seed. Chansey is an even more terrifying foe thean Ferrothorn that Latios faces, capable of tanking Psyshock, avoiding even a 4HKO after Latios has crippled himself with Draco Meteor. Latios's aversion to these Pokemon makes Ho-oOh and Blaziken very nice partners, as they boast the ability to easily dent, if not OHKO, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Chansey with their STAB moves. In return, Latios can easily punch holes in Giratina and Lugia so that Blaziken and Ho-oh can more easily sweep the enemy's team later.</p>

[SET]
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Draco Meteor / Roost
move 4: Memento
item: Light Clay
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's Dragon typing, ability, high base Speed, and access to Memento, enable him to distinguish himself as an exceptionally talented dual screen user. Light Screen and Reflect enable Latios to cushion himself, and his team from the enemies attacks for eight turns. With Memento in its his arsenal, Comma Latios can kill himself and lower the attacking stats of an enemy even further, providing a free switch to another teammate Removed space. The third moveslot choice is dependent on what the team needs. Latios can very easily set up screens more then once in the match, and Roost enables him to heal ithimself to perform that job very well. However;, Comma's fine if Latios is intended to be used only to cripple an opponent, it may be beneficial to heavily damage them with a Draco Meteor before lowering their attacking stats. In addition, Draco Meteor prevents Latios from being destroyed by Taunt and enablinges it him to prevent Rayquaza from setting up.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Since Latios's main purpose is to help a teammate sweep, it is a good idea to pair him up with teammates Space that can raise their stats, such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza or Shell Smash Cloyster. In particular, Latios enjoys Mew and Gorebyss support. Mew and Gorebyss are capable of easily accumulating many boosts to pass to a teammate, who can further use the protection provided by dual screens to pave way for a bulky sweep.</p>

<p>Latios can run moves besides Draco Meteor, or make use of a healing move for team support. Thunder Wave enables Latios to further cripple his enemies by cutting their speed and providing a handy paralysis chance that can be useful to get an extra boost. Tailwind enables Latios to double the speed of his team, and when being used in conjunction with Memento, Latios has little trouble getting a teammate space in to abuse the boosts to dSefense and sSpeed. Finally, Latios can run Dragon Pulse as an option for more reliable STAB than Draco Meteor. However, Dragon Pulse is fairly weak, incapable of breaking even the Substitutes of a 252 HP Ho-oOh or Lugia.</p>

<p>Latios's current spread is designed so that he can avoid a 2HKO on average from Timid Choice Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend and speed tie with other Latios and Latias. If one feels that these Pokemon are simply too uncommon and wish to increase Latios's bulk, the spread of 252 HP / 192 Spe / 64 SpD can be used to outspeed all non-scarfed Garchomp. If you feel that Garchomp is also too rare to deserve EV investment, then the spread of 252 HP/ 160 SpD / 96 Spe enables Latios to outspeed all base 90s while retaining a fairly high amount of special bulk.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 4: Psyshock / Surf / Hidden Power Fire
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using Dragon Dance on Latios may sound absurd, but its boost to Latios's sSpeed allows it him to outrun and KO almost everything in the metagame. Latios's unique typing actually excels in this case, allowing it him to take advantage of a stray Surf or Fire Blast and use the move as set up for a Dragon Dance. These unique traits allow Latios to become a potent cleaner, more then capable of striking fear into all teams late-game hyphen.</p>

<p>Dragon Dance allows Latios to increase ithis speed, lowering, if not completely eliminating, the chance the other side has to be revenge killed it. Dragon Pulse is a strong, reliable STAB that will dent anything that doesn't resist it and Chansey after Stealth Rock How is denting Chansey good? I don't understand what its here, because Dragon Pulse won't do too much damage.. Thunder assuages Latios's issues with Steel-types in the rain, providing very nice coverage to complement Dragon Pulse. Grass Knot, while incapable of hurting Steel-types, maims Tyranitar, Groudon, and Ground-type Arceus, scoring OHKOes on the latter two Pokemon and a 2HKO on Tyranitar. The last slot further improves Latios's coverage needs. With Psyshock, Latios gains the ability to muscle past Chansey, as the move will 2HKO after Chansey has taken damage from Stealth Rock. Psyshock, however, leaves Latios vulnerable to both Excadrill and Ferrothorn, two Pokemon that have little trouble stomaching the rest of their Latios's attacks. Surf easily takes care of Excadrill, OHKOing in the rain while providing nice coverage with Thunder. Hidden Power Fire will OHKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill in the sun, while also granting near perfect coverage when used in conjunction with Grass Knot.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Latios likes to come in late-game hyphen when the opposition hais weakened and tired itself from fighting other Pokemon Repetitive. It is for this reason that this Latios, like other offensively inclined Latios, enjoys hazard support. Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes can weaken enemies so that Latios can more easily sweep late-game hyphen. Ferrothorn and Forretress again excel at this role not only for their adept ability to set up hazards, but also for their ability to easily wear down the enemy via Leech Seed, Toxic, and Pain Split. These Pokemon also lure Fire-type moves that Latios loves to switch in on and use to set up a free Dragon Dance.</p>

<p>The level of prediction it takes to setup Latios is quite high. If you feel uneasy switching Latios into threatening Pokemon or just want to guarantee setup for Latios, you can use Wobbufett. Wobbufett's access to Encore and Shadow Tag eases Latios's setup, allowing it to setup on Pokemon it would otherwise be scared to switch into space, such as Dialga locked onto Stealth Rock or Palkia locked onto Surf.</p>

<p>Weather support is near mandatory when runnusing Latios, as ithis only options for hitting Steel-types rely on the weather to boost them to for sufficient power. For example, a Hidden Power Fire in rainy weather will fail to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill, while a Surf in sunny weather will fail to 3HKO Heatran. If you simply cannot afford to put Kyogre or Groudon on your team, then it would be beneficial to pack extra insurance against these Pokemon. Magnezone can serve as this "insurance" and remove these Pokemon from the match due to its unique typing and access to Magnet Pull.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Latios really lacks many noteworthy options to use outside of those already listed. If you have an enormous aversion to Tyranitar's existence and wish to maul his body around the battlefield like the fate of Hector, you can use Hidden Power Fighting. Hidden Power Fighting's ability to hit Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Heatran hard regardless of weather allows Latios to put the move to some other use as well. It's not recommended though due to it being fairly weak even when it does hit hit Pokemon super effectively.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Like other Ubers, Latios has no true "counter". There are, however, a few checks that can distinguish themselves for their notorious ability to stomach Latios's onslaught. Chansey, Ho-oOh, and Lugia shine out brightly from the list of counters that Latios has, avoiding a 2HKO from all moves, if Latios does not have a Calm Mind boost and Stealth Rock is not up. Latios has should Latios have not obtained a Calm Mind and Stealth Rock not be up. If you can't shove any of these Pokemon on a team then taking advantage of Latios's Achilles heel, I don't know what your trying to say here :\ its he needs to use weather-reliant moves for coverage, otherwise Steel-types can allow some Steel-types to wall it. Ferrothorn and Heatran are allso capable of walling a Latios stuck in a detrimental weather that it dislikes, because as Latios will be unable to even 3HKO Heatran with a sun-weakened Surf or 2HKO Ferrothorn with a rain-weakened Hidden Power Fire. Excadrill Two L's! distinguishes himitsself from the other Steel-types by being able to actually remove Latios from the match via Mold Breaker Earthquake should Latios is be in the wrong weather. Jirachi does a similar job, but doesn't really care about which weather its in, being able to avoid the OHKO from Hidden Power Fire and annoy Latios with the combination of Thunder wWave Space and Iron Head. If you find yourself unable to pack any of these Steel-types on a team, then you may as well resort to revenge killing variants. While Latios's speed is high, it is susceptible to priority and faster Pokemon, namely, Swift Swim and Chlorophyll users. Users of strong physical moves, like Choice Scarf Kyurem-B, Choice Scarf Garchomp, Kabutops, and Kingdra can patch up their low Speed stat via rain or or Choice Scarf and remove non-Dragon Dance Latios from the field by hitting ithis weaker Defense stat. All Latios variants share a crippling weakness to Dark-type moves, thu making them very vulnerable to Pursuit. Should you be able to get a Pursuit user into Latios, it will be able to checkmate Latios. Tyranitar and Scizor distinguish themselves for the long list of Pursuiters in the Uber tier, as they are able to not only threaten Latios with their STAB, but can also tank a Draco Meteor with ease. Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, Rock Arceus, and Steel Arceus, are also all capable of stomaching incoming Draco Meteors, and can easily Calm Mind in front of all variants of Latios or outright KO Latios with their strong physical STABs moves. They must be wary of Latios utilizing dual screens or opposing Calm Mind Latios though, since they will be setup bait instead. The Calm Mind Latios problem, however, can easily be fixed by adding Roar to any of the Calm Mind Arcei Arceus's moveslots. Dark Arceus and physically inclined Arceus are an the exception to this rule, however though, as Dark Arceus is immune to Psyshock, while physically offensive Arceus are still able to OHKO Latios regardless of the amount of Calm Minds they have he has recieved. Although Latios normally can easily cushion Special Attacks thanks to Soul Dew, this does not mean it he is impervious to them in anyway as strong Special Attacks can still plow through its his sky-high Special Defense. Users of STAB Draco Meteor, like Dialga and Palkia, when equipped with a Choice Scarf, can revenge kill Latios that haves not yet Calm Minded or set-up a Light Screen. Lastly, Wobbufett can easily annoy every Latios variant that exists; turning the Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, and dual screens sets into potential setup, while boasting the ability to revenge-kill Latios that have released their STAB Draco Meteor.</p>

I don't know if this matters but for the set: name, move, item, ability, nature, and evs are all lower case. I'd change it, but it'd be too tedious. =]

To keep fluidity, use the same convention, ie: it or he/ his / him, etc.
I saw that in the [Overview] section you used 'it', then started using 'he' in the [Set Comments].
Its up to you to use either, but I think he sounds better.

I can c/p the edits if you prefer.

Nice job writing this beastly analysis!

 

[polop]

I'll implement the above yonder then lol. How could I screw up it and he though -_-. Also...

<- Guys why is that happening, I DID NOTHING I TELL YOU I'm assuming this is gonna go? :P

That was a message to people doing html, I'll remove it since they haven't responded. I'll fix the set items / evs / nature stuff momentarily though. <- done

Also doing he and it stuff later ctrl + f = it -> over 480 results O_O. I haven't done anything you put in your check yet though, just the ev + nature + set items stuff.

 

[Yonko7]

I'll implement the above yonder then lol. How could I screw up it and he though -_-. Also...



That was a message to people doing html, I'll remove it since they haven't responded. I'll fix the set items / evs / nature stuff momentarily though. <- done

Also doing he and it stuff later ctrl + f = it -> over 480 results O_O. I haven't done anything you put in your check yet though, just the ev + nature + set items stuff.

Well some of the 'it's refer to another Pokemon, such as kyorge or some item. So don't go changing every 'it' but if you want you can change the ones you think need to be changed. Or I'll do it. :p

Edit: Finished GP check

 

[polop]

keeps Latios's ability to speed tie with these Pokemon, in exchange for leaving Latios at the mercy of the aforementioned enemiesenemy Ferrothorn Latios would be at the mercy of the Pokemon who would be hit by HP Fire, not only Ferro. At least that what I think... I don't play Ubers much.

Ferrothorn is the only Pokemon that resists Surf, so I kept Ferrothorn in. Besides, if I were to use aforementioned enemies, then I'd say Excadrill and Forretress wall Surf Latios, which isn't the case.

How is denting Chansey good? I don't understand what its here, because Dragon Pulse won't do too much damage.

It doesn't dent Chansey, what I mean was Chansey and Steel-types don't care about Dragon Pulse. I fixed it with rewording now though :P.

I don't know what your trying to say here :\

The place where that comment was inserted has been reworded a bit to make more sense.

Aside that thanks for the check Yonko7 :P, its now been implemented (sadly a bit after yonder I know :().

Also about the 480 results for "it" they included Tyranitar and with and other stuff O_O, so apparently that wasn't the number of changes lol.

I do believe my last sentence did intimidate a few GPers though P:.

 

[sirndpt]

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[Overview]

<p>When looking upon at Latios's disappointing base stats, particularly his subpar bulk and below-average Special Attack, one may might question why he should be used in Ubers. His sub-par bulk and lower than average Special Attack only make it look unappealing to the eye. Latios's typing grants him a weaknesses to the rampant Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Bug-type attacks rampant in the metagame, and only offering resistances to the rare Grass-, Electric-, Water-, Fire-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-type attacks in return, along with little offensive synergy in his STABs ; His movepool his STABs also have little offensive synergy. He lacks the ability to hit Steel-types hard, forcing him and he is forced to use the weather-(hyphen)reliant Surf, Hidden Power Fire, and Thunder for coverage. Then w

What is it, then, that makes this him one of the most deadly sweepers in the game? How could he hope to soar above the rest of the metagame in a role it would initially appear outclassed? The answer is simple-- : Soul Dew. The boost Soul Dew provides to Latios's mediocre stats allows him to smite his fellow dragons with ease. Raising Latios's bulk to respectable levels and boosting his Special Attack, so that he can it allows him to take full advantage of its his Speed, ability, and resistances, allowing Latios to and rival the titans that terrorize the Ubers metagame. Soul Dew will not make Latios perfect, however; his movepool remains barren, and his physical defense-- feeble. Latias's existence alone often makes others look the other way as it can also rob Soul Dew of its benefits, boasting defense that makes Latios drool. Not all is lost for Latios though, he can still be a threat (How do you think this analysis got here huh?) He also faces competition from Latias, who boasts better Defense and who too can benefit from Soul Dew. Not all is lost for Latios though. By taking advantage of his colossal Special Attack and an ironically distinguished support movepool, Latios can remind all of his forgotten power.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Surf / Thunder / Roost
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's mediocre Special Defense, huge Speed, and monstrous Special Attack allows him to effectively run a Calm Mind set. Calm Mind is the crux of the set; by powering up his already high Special Attack while bolstering his defenses, making it makes him less prone to being revenge killed. Psyshock and Dragon Pulse form the bread-and-butter of the set, allowing and allow Latios to essentially go mixed, while also providing the dragon with a way to severely dent the pink blobs that may might try to stop his sweep.</p>

<p>However, if you feel that Psyshock provides little coverage and have your team has a way around Blissey and Chansey, you may can opt to use either Surf, Thunder, or Roost in the second moveslot. The former two moves hit Steel-Types neutrally while the latter provides reliable recovery that allows Latios to easily obtain more Calm Minds. The last moveslot is your option to hit Steel-types. Surf allows Latios to beat In the rain, Surf brings down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel- Arceus in the rain, thanks to the psuedo-STAB rain brings. Thunder is also a handy tool for shocking enemy Steel-types, while Thunder hits Steel-types neutrally while also giving Latios a handy 30% chance to instantly cripple a Pokemon for the rest of the match. However, if you feel hitting that neutral coverage on Steel-types neutrally is unnecessary, then you may you can opt to use Roost, which lengthens Latios's longevity, and easily allowing allows him to gain more than one Calm Mind boost.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios appreciates Stealth Rock and Spikes support, as it can weaken some of his enemies so that they can fall said hazards can push some of his enemies into OHKO range from of one of his moves. Ferrothorn and Forretress can easily set up the coveted hazards, while also able to easily switch into the one move Latios loathes-- : Outrage. In exchange, Latios synergizes nicely with the spike-users these hazard layers, resisting as he resists Fire-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn or Forretress.</p>

<p>Latios also enjoys dual screen and Wobbuffet Wobbufett support. Light Screen and Reflect will easily allow Latios to set up multiple Calm Minds in the face of any move while also patching up his weak defensive stats patch up his weak defenses, allow him to set up multiple Calm Mind boosts, and making make him less prone to being revenge killed. Wobbuffet Courtesy of its access to Encore and Shadow Tag, Wobbuffet can virtually guarantees that Latios will always be able to safely set up one Calm Mind, courtesy to its access to Encore and Shadow Tag.Furthermore, Wobbuffet Wobbufett can also become an invaluable trapper provide trap support for Latios, by instantly removing its revenge killers with Counter and Mirror Coat.</p>

<p>Lastly, Latios enjoys Kyogre support pairs well with Kyogre. Not only does Kyogre power up Latios's Surf, increase Thunder's accuracy, and maim Ferrothorn and Chansey, it can also can effectively combat Tyranitar, who can otherwise can trap and Pursuit Latios to his doom. If one wants to avoid this scenario without running Kyogre support, then run Grass Knot is an option in the fourth slot over other moves to maul 2HKO Tyranitar, 2HKOing in sand. However, this is not recommended, as Latios will now struggle to deal damage to Steel-types.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Psyshock / Roost / Dragon Pulse
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios variant attempts to take advantage of the free Calm Mind boost offered by Soul Dew to instantly begin bombarding the enemy with powerful special attacks. Draco Meteor's power is enormous, boasting and boasts the ability to OHKO virtually everything that doesn't resist it and is not named Blissey or Chansey. Thunder allows Latios to ruin Kyogre and Manaphy, while also providing decent coverage, however but its reliance on rain is may might render it useless on against certain teams. Grass Knot is a suitable alternative; while it is incapable of dealing damage to Manaphy and enemy Steel-types, it can take an enormous chunk of health out of opposing Groudon, Kyogre, and Tyranitar, regardless of the weather.</p>

<p>The third moveslot allows Latios to hit Steel-types. : Hidden Power Fire maims enemy Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Excadrill in the sun at the cost of losing the Speed tie with other Latios and Latias. On the other hand, Surf keeps Latios's ability to Speed tie with these Pokemon, in exchange for leaving Latios him at the mercy of enemy Ferrothorn. The last slot is reserved for lets Latios to use a STAB move that doesn't instantly cripple him. Dragon Pulse is a strong, reliable STAB, while Psyshock gives Latios the ability to damage Blissey and Chansey. However, if you feel that an extra STAB move is unnecessary, then you may you can opt to use Roost to heighten Latios's longevity.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Similarly to the last set, Latios finds Groudon and Kyogre to be great teammates. Not only do they make Latios's Surf and Hidden Power Fire and Surf more destructive, respectively, they provide fabulous offensive and defensive synergy as well. Kyogre can easily crush any Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Tyranitar that may might stand in the way of Latios Latios's way with a powerful Choice Specs Water Spout, while Latios is easily capable of destroying the few Pokemons that can switch into the dreaded spout-- Water Spout—namely Giratina, Latias, and Gastrodon-- —with a STAB, - and Soul Dew-(hyphen)boosted, Draco Meteor. Groudon also too makes short work of the aforementioned threats with Fire Punch and Earthquake, and can also provide Latios with Stealth Rock support, a tool that helps to help Latios beat down Multiscale Lugia and Regenerator Ho-Oh.</p>

<p> Stealth Rock is not the only support this jet plane Latios appreciates, Spikes and Toxic Spikes are also appreciated support as well. Like As with the last set, Ferrothorn and Forretress are wonderful partners, thanks to their defensive synergy with Latios and ability to instantly litter the field with hazards.</p>

<p>However, these partners can also become Latios's worst enemies. If Latios doesn't pack Hidden Power Fire, then Ferrothorn will have little trouble absorbing Latios's attacks. capable of using the poor dragon as It can then set up for more Spikes, easily being able to Spikes and recover all the damage it takes with Leech Seed. Chansey is an even more terrifying foe than Ferrothorn, capable of tanking Psyshock, avoiding as it is not even a 4HKOed by Psyshock after Latios has crippled himself with Draco Meteor. Latios's aversion to these Pokemon makes Ho-Oh and Blaziken very nice partners, as they boast the ability to easily severely dent, if not OHKO, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Chansey with their STAB moves. In return, Latios can easily punch holes in Giratina and Lugia so that Blaziken and Ho-Oh can more easily sweep the enemy's team later.</p>

[SET]
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Draco Meteor / Roost
move 4: Memento
item: Light Clay
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's typing, ability, high base Speed, and access to Memento, enable him to distinguish himself as an exceptionally talented dual screen user. Light Screen and Reflect enable Latios to cushion both himself, and his team from the enemies' attacks for eight turns. With Memento in his arsenal, Latios can kill sacrifice himself and to lower the attack offensive stats of an enemy even further, providing a free switch to another teammate allowing a teammate a free switch-in. The third moveslot choice is dependent depends on what the team needs. (should the third and fourth moves be switched? it makes more logical sense this way) Latios can very easily set up screens more then once in the match, and Roost enables him to heal himself to perform that job very well. However, if Latios is used only to cripple an opponent, it may be beneficial to heavily damage them with a Draco Meteor If Latios's only goal is to cripple an opponent, Draco Meteor lets him do heavy damage before lowering their its attacking stats. In addition, Draco Meteor prevents Latios from being destroyed by Taunt and enables him to prevent stops Rayquaza from setting up on him. Alternatively, Latios can easily set up screens more than once a match, and Roost enables him to heal himself to do so even more reliably.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

(reorganized paragraphs)

<p>Latios's current spread is designed so that he can The listed EV spread allows Latios to avoid a 2HKO on average from Timid Choice Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend, and Speed tie with other Latios and Latias. If one feels that these Pokemon are simply too uncommon and wishes to increase Latios's bulk, the a spread of 252 HP / 192 Spe / 64 SpD 252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe can be used to outspeed all non-scarfed lets it outrun all non-Choice Scarf Garchomp, If you feel that Garchomp is also too rare to deserve EV investment, then the spread of while 252 HP/ 160 SpD / 96 Spe enables Latios it to outspeed all base 90s while retaining a fairly high amount of special bulk.</p>

<p>Latios can run moves besides Draco Meteor, or use a healing move for team support. Thunder Wave enables Latios to further cripple his enemies by cutting their Speed, and providing a handy paralysis chance that can be useful to the chance of full paralysis can even help him get an extra boost. Tailwind enables Latios to double the Speed of his team. and when used in conjunction with Memento, Latios has little trouble getting a teammate in to abuse the boosts to Defense In particular, it can be used in conjunction with Memento for a teammate to take advantage of the boosts to both bulk and Speed. Finally, Latios can run Dragon Pulse as an option for more reliable STAB than Draco Meteor. However, Dragon Pulse is fairly weak, and incapable of breaking even the Substitutes of a 252 HP 252/0 Ho-Oh or Lugia.</p>

<p>Since As Latios's main purpose is to help a teammate sweep, it is a good idea to pair him up with team mates that can raise their stats, stat-boosting teammates such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza or and Shell Smash Cloyster. In particular, Latios enjoys support from Mew and Gorebyss support. Mew and Gorebyss They are capable of easily accumulating many boosts to pass to a teammate, who can further use the protection provided by dual screens to pave the way for a bulky sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 4: Psyshock / Surf / Hidden Power Fire
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using Dragon Dance on a specially based Latios may might sound absurd, but its boost to Latios's Speed it provides a useful Speed boost that allows him to outrun and KO almost everything in the metagame. Latios's unique typing actually excels in this case, allowing is an advantage in this case, as it allows him to take advantage of a stray Surf or Fire Blast and use the move as set up for a to set up with Dragon Dance. These unique traits allow Latios to become a potent cleaner, more then than capable of striking fear into all teams late-game.</p>

<p>Dragon Dance allows Latios to increase his speed, lowering, if not completely eliminating, the chance the other side has to revenge kill it. Dragon Pulse is strong, reliable STAB that will dent everything barring Chansey and Steel-types after Stealth Rock. Thunder assuages Latios's issues with Steel-types in the rain, providing very provides nice coverage to complement Dragon Pulse. Grass Knot, while incapable of hurting Steel-types, maims Tyranitar, Groudon, and Ground-type Arceus, scoring . Specifically, it OHKOes on the latter two Pokemon and a 2HKO on 2HKOes Tyranitar. The last slot further improves Latios's coverage. With Psyshock, Latios gains the ability to muscle past Chansey, as the move will 2HKO after Chansey has taken damage from Stealth Rock. Psyshock, however, leaves Latios vulnerable to both Excadrill and Ferrothorn, two Pokemon that have little trouble stomaching the rest of Latios's attacks. Surf easily takes care of Excadrill, OHKOing in the rain while providing nice coverage with Thunder. Hidden Power Fire will OHKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill in the sun, while also granting near perfect coverage when used in conjunction with Grass Knot OHKOing it in rain, while Hidden Power Fire will OHKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill in sun. These moves also have nice coverage alongside Thunder and Grass Knot respectively.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Latios likes to come should only switch in late-game, when the opposition has been weakened. It is for this reason that this Latios, like other offensively inclined Latios, Therefore, it enjoys hazard support; Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes can all weaken enemies so that Latios can more easily sweep late-game. Ferrothorn and Forretress again excel at this role, not only for their adept ability to set up hazards, but also for their ability to easily handily wear down the enemy via Leech Seed, Toxic, and Pain Split. These Pokemon also lure Fire-type moves that Latios loves to switch in on and use to can set up a free Dragon Dance on.</p>

<p>The level of prediction it takes to set up Latios is quite high. If you feel uneasy switching Latios into threatening Pokemon or just want to guarantee a setup for Latios opportunity, you can use Wobbuffet Wobbufett. Wobbuffet Wobbufett's access to Encore and Shadow Tag eases Latios's setup, allowing and allows him to set up on Pokemon it would otherwise be scared to switch in to otherwise dangerous Pokemon, such as Dialga locked onto into Stealth Rock or Palkia locked onto into Surf.</p>

<p>Weather support is near-(hyphen)mandatory when using Latios, as its only options for hitting Steel-types rely on the weather to boost them for sufficient power. For example, a Hidden Power Fire in rainy weather will fail to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill while a Surf in sunny weather will fail to 3HKO Heatran. If you simply cannot afford to put Kyogre or Groudon on your team, then it would be beneficial to pack extra insurance against these Pokemon. Magnezone can serve as "insurance" and remove for removing these Pokemon from the match due to its unique typing and access to Magnet Pull.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Latios really lacks many noteworthy options to use outside of those already listed. If you have an enormous aversion to Tyranitar's existence and wish to maul his body around the battlefield like the fate of Hector (i'd remove this tbh! doesn't really belong in a formal analysis, plus it's a little… out of left field entirely), you can use run Hidden Power Fighting. Hidden Power Fighting's ability to As it can also hit Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Heatran hard , regardless of weather, allows Latios to put the move to some other use it is not completely situational as well. It's not recommended, though, due to it being fairly weak even when it does hit Pokemon as it is fairly weak even against targets it hits super effectively.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Like many other Ubers, Latios has no true "counter". There are, however, a few checks that can distinguish themselves for their notorious ability to stomach Latios's onslaught. Chansey, Ho-Oh, and Lugia shine out brightly from the list of counters that Latios has, avoiding a 2HKO from all moves Latios has if Latios does not have a Calm Mind boost and stand out from the pack. Chansey, Ho-Oh, and Lugia are not 2HKOed by any of unboosted Latios's moves if Stealth Rock is not be up. If you can't shove any of these Pokemon on a team then taking advantage of Latios's need to use weather-reliant moves to hit enemy Steel-types, can allow certain Pokemon to wall it </p>

<p>You can also look to taking advantage of Latios's reliance on weather to hit enemy Steel-types. For example, Ferrothorn and Heatran are all capable of walling a Latios in detrimental weather, because Latios will be unable to even cannot 3HKO Heatran with a sun-weakened Surf or 2HKO Ferrothorn with a rain-weakened Hidden Power Fire. Excadrill distinguishes itself from the other Steel-types by being able to actually remove Latios from the match via Mold Breaker Earthquake if Latios is in the wrong weather. Jirachi does a similar job, but doesn't really care about which weather its in, being able to it is in, as it can avoid the an OHKO from (sun-boosted?) Hidden Power Fire and annoy Latios with the combination of Thunder Wave and Iron Head.</p>

<p>If you find yourself unable to pack any of these Steel-types on a team, then you may might as well resort to revenge killing variants Latios. While Latios's Speed is high, it is susceptible to priority and faster Pokemon, name particularly, Swift Swim and Chlorophyll users. Users of strong physical moves, like such as Kyurem-B, Garchomp, Genesect, Kabutops, and Kingdra, can patch up their low Speed stat via rain or Choice Scarf or rain, and remove non-Dragon Dance Latios from the field by hitting its weak Defense stat. targeting its weak Defense stat. (moved from below) Additionally, although Latios can normally cushion special attacks thanks to Soul Dew, he is hardly impervious to them in any way; strong special attacks can still plow through his sky-high Special Defense. Choice Scarf Dialga and Palkia can revenge kill Latios that lack a Calm Mind or Light Screen boost with STAB Draco Meteor.</p>

<p>Ghost Arceus, Dark Arceus, Rock Arceus Ghost, Dark , Rock, and Steel Arceus, are also all capable of stomaching incoming Draco Meteors, and can easily set up Calm Mind in front of all variants of Latios or outright KO Latios with their strong physical STABs. They must be wary of Latios utilizing dual screens or opposing Calm Mind Latios though, since as they will be setup bait instead. The Calm Mind Latios problem, however, can easily be fixed can be taken down by adding Roar to any of the Calm Mind Arceus's moveslots movesets. Dark Arceus and physically inclined Arceus are an the exception to this rule, however, can beat Calm Mind Latios too; Dark Arceus the former is immune to Psyshock, while physically offensive Arceus are still able to the latter can OHKO Latios regardless of the amount number of Calm Mind boosts he has recieved amassed.

<p>[/b][/color]All Latios variants share a crippling weakness to Dark-type moves, thus making them very vulnerable to Pursuit Pursuit in particular. Should you be able to get switch a Pursuit user into Latios, it will be able to checkmate Latios. Tyranitar and Scizor distinguish themselves for the long list of Pursuiters in the Uber tier, as they are able with their ability to not only threaten Latios with their STAB, but can also to tank a Draco Meteor with ease. Although Latios normally can easily cushion Special Attacks thanks to Soul Dew, does not mean he is impervious to them in anyway as strong Special Attacks can still plow through his sky-high Special Defense. Users of STAB Draco Meteor, like Dialga and Palkia, when equipped with a Choice Scarf, can revenge kill Latios that have not yet Calm Minded or set-up a Light Screen. </p>

<p>Lastly, Wobbuffet Wobbufett can easily annoy every Latios variant that exists. It turning turns the Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, and dual screens sets into potential setup setup bait, while boasting and boasts the ability to revenge-(remove hyphen, insert space)kill Latios that has released have already used their STAB Draco Meteor.</p>

[gp]1/2[/gp]

 

[polop]

Oh dear, that looks frightening 0_0, I'll implement it soon, until I post that I'm done with it don't make another GP check.

I thought I actually did a decent job on Prose too :(.

 

[polop]

Mini-bump and double post, I implemented Sirndpt's check :P, thanks for the check! (It was a tad bit exhausting implementing it though...)

 

[sandshrewz]

I don't like the use of inappropriate adjectives to describe Latios's stats. "Huge" speed? "Mediocre" special defense? No... just no.
Indeed, the wild use of hyperboles and wrong adjectives is historically the greatest problem with Smogon's analyses.

Normally you would say it's high speed, but that's not the case here lol. The 'speed' here refers to the Speed stat, which is a value. A 'huge value' sounds reasonable to me >.> if you want to bring this up, it'll probably be better to raise it at the Spelling and Grammar Standards thread :) this isn't an appropriate place to discuss grammar and whatnot >.>

 

[giggity69]

Normally you would say it's high speed, but that's not the case here lol. The 'speed' here refers to the Speed stat, which is a value. A 'huge value' sounds reasonable to me >.> if you want to bring this up, it'll probably be better to raise it at the Spelling and Grammar Standards thread :) this isn't an appropriate place to discuss grammar and whatnot >.>

The analysis thread is actually the place to discuss the wording and phrasing of an analysis, hence why GP happens here.

And it is nitpick, but I do agree that "huge" is an inaccurate word to describe the speed of something in the same tier as M2, Skymin, Darkrai, and Arceus, who's speed is actually "Huge." It also doesn't make sense that 110 speed is "huge" and 110 SpD is mediocre.

 

[polop]

And it is nitpick, but I do agree that "huge" is an inaccurate word to describe the speed of something in the same tier as M2, Skymin, Darkrai, and Arceus, who's speed is actually "Huge." It also doesn't make sense that 110 speed is "huge" and 110 SpD is mediocre.

Well its speed tier is pretty good honestly, outspeeding every thing up to Terrakion is great, especially when considering that like 90% of the Uber tier has Pokemon with a base Speed below 108, and that Support Arceus formes don't even bother to invest max speed. If there are complaints I'll change it to high because if an adjective stirs up trouble then my diction is just THAT bad <.<. Also you realize that the next fastest Uber viable thing in the tier list ARE the Lati twins right :P (well I guess you could count Thundurus, Tornadus, and Landorous, but they're like non-existent in usage 0_0 and only 1 base speed higher then Latios)?

"Mediocre" special defense

Its not high since it lacks investment 0_0. Don't even suggest adding Special Defense, or else your using an inferior Latias. The Special Defense its not Chansey or Arceus level where it can stomach Specs Draco Meteors and Specs Super Effective attacks and still live to tell the tale.

 

[giggity69]

Assuming you are using soul dew, which every latios set should, his SpD is actually pretty great, even higher numerically than ho-oh, who is considered to be a pretty specially defensive poke (lots less hp, though). 384 SpD uninvested just doesn't seem mediocre, to me, especially when we describe things like mewtwo as having "decent" defenses, its a matter of consistency.

 

[polop]

Using a word like "high" would make it seem that Latias has less bulk, and if Soul Dew Latios and Ho-oh were to be hit neutrally by an attack Ho-oh would take less. Ho-oh can even tank Super Effective Power Gems for crying out loud while Latios can't handle Dracos.

I'll change it to mediocre special bulk then, considering his HP stat lets him down, will that suffice? Using high Special Defense implies it can stomach absurd things, and really that's probably just going to lead to the Latios user getting his Dragon killed. Then there's also stuff going on as to what to use to describe Latias...

 

[giggity69]

I know that it is really an argument of semantics, but he really doesn't have mediocre special bulk; he isn't a special wall by any means, but stab Draco meteor is pretty much the only common special attack that can revenge it. Latios can set up on scarf waterspout, and is not near ohkod by mewtwos LO ice beam. For an offensive poke he has good special bulk.

 

[Furai]

Just say respectable SpD and call it a day

 

[JockeMS]

I'm feeling much better today, so I can finally finish checking this for you.

EDIT:

In progress...

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[Overview]

<p>When looking at Latios's disappointing base stats, particularly his subpar bulk and below-average Special Attack, one might question why he should be used in Ubers. Latios's typing grants him weaknesses to the Dragon-, Ice-, Ghost-, and Bug-type attacks rampant in the metagame, and only offer resistances to the rare Grass-, Electric-, Water-, Fire-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-type attacks in return; his STABs also have little offensive synergy. He lacks the ability to hit Steel-types hard, and he is forced to use the weather-reliant Surf, Hidden Power Fire, and Thunder for coverage.</p>

<p>Then what is it that makes him one of the most deadly sweepers in the game? The answer is simple: Soul Dew. The boost Soul Dew provides to Latios's mediocre stats allows him to smite his fellow dragons with ease. Raising Latios's bulk to respectable levels and boosting his Special Attack, it Soul Dew allows him to take full advantage of his Speed, ability, and resistances, and rival the titans that terrorize the Ubers metagame. Soul Dew will not make Latios perfect however; his movepool remains barren, and his physical defense feeble. He also faces competition from Latias, who boasts better Defense and who too can benefit from Soul Dew. Not all is lost for Latios though. By taking advantage of his colossal Special Attack and an ironically distinguished support movepool, Latios can remind all of his forgotten power.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Dragon Pulse
move 4: Surf / Thunder / Roost
item: Soul Dew
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's respectable Special Defense, huge Speed, and monstrous Special Attack allows him to effectively run a Calm Mind set. Calm Mind is the crux of the set; by powering up his already high Special Attack while bolstering his defenses, it makes him less prone to being revenge killed. Psyshock and Dragon Pulse form the bread-and-butter of the set, and allow Latios to essentially go mixed, while also providing the dragon with a way to severely dent the pink blobs that migh might try to stop his sweep.</p>

<p>However, if you feel that Psyshock provides little coverage and your team has a way around Blissey and Chansey, you can opt to use either Surf, Thunder, or Roost in the second moveslot. In the rain, Surf brings down Excadril Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus in the rain, thanks to the psuedo-STAB rain brings, while.[add] Thunder hits Steel-types neutrally,[add] while also,[remove] giving Latios a handy 30% chance to instantly cripple a Pokemon for the rest of the match. However, if you feel that neutral coverage on Steel-types is unnecessary, then you can opt to use Roost which lengthens Latios's longevity and easily allows him to gain more than one Calm Mind boost.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios appreciates Stealth Rock and Spikes support, as said entry hazards can push some of his enemies into OHKO range of one of his moves. Ferrothorn and Forretress can easily set up the coveted hazards, while also being able to switch into the one move Latios loathes: Outrage. In exchange, Latios synergizes nicely with these entry hazard layers, as he resists Fire-type moves aimed at Ferrothorn or Forretress.</p>

<p>Latios also enjoys dual screen and Wobbuffet support. Light Screen and Reflect patch up his weak defenses, allow him to set up multiple Calm Mind boosts, and make him less prone to being revenge killed. Courtesy of its access to Encore and Shadow Tag, Wobbuffet can virtually guarantee that Latios will always be able to safely set[space]up one Calm Mind. Furthermore, Wobbuffet can also provide invaluable trap support for Latios by instantly removing its revenge killers with Counter and Mirror Coat.</p>

<p>Lastly, Latios pairs well with Kyogre. Not only does Kyogre power up Surf, increase Thunder's accuracy, and maim Ferrothorn and Chansey, it can also effectively combat Tyranitar, who can otherwise trap and Pursuit Latios to his doom. If one wants to avoid this scenario without running Kyogre support, then Grass Knot is an option in the fourth slot over other moves to 2HKO Tyranitar in sand. However, this is not recommended as Latios will struggle to damage Steel-types.</p>

[SET]
name: All-Out Special Attacker
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 3: Surf / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Psyshock / Roost / Dragon Pulse
item: Soul Dew
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This Latios variant attempts to take advantage of the free Calm Mind boost offered by Soul Dew to instantly bombard the enemy with powerful special attacks. Draco Meteor's power is enormous, and boasts the ability to OHKO virtually everything that doesn't resist it not named Blissey or Chansey. Thunder allows Latios to ruin Kyogre and Manaphy, while also providing decent coverage, but its reliance on rain might render it useless on certain teams. Grass Knot is a suitable alternative; while it is incapable of dealing damage to Manaphy and enemy Steel-types, it can take an enormous chunk of health out of opposing Groudon, Kyogre, and Tyranitar, regardless of the weather.</p>

<p>The third move allows Latios to hit Steel-types: Hidden Power Fire maims enemy Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Excadrill in the sun at the cost of losing the Speed tie with other Latios and Latias. On the other[space]hand, Surf keeps Latios's ability to Speed tie with these Pokemon in exchange for leaving him at the mercy of enemy Ferrothorn. The last slot lets Latios use a STAB move that doesn't instantly cripple him. Dragon Pulse is a strong, reliable STAB, while Psyshock gives Latios the ability to damage Blissey and Chansey. However, if you feel that an extra STAB move is unnecessary, you can opt to use Roost to heighten Latios's longevity.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Similarly to the last set (change this the corresponding set name instead. set orders can come to change at any time), Latios finds Groudon and Kyogre to be great teammates. Not only do they make Latios's Hidden Power Fire and Surf more destructive, respectively, they provide fabulous offensive and defensive synergy as well. Kyogre can crush any Ferrothorn, Chansey, and Tyranitar that might stand in the way of Latios with a powerful Choice Specs Water Spout, while Latios is easily capable of destroying the few Pokemon that can switch into the dreaded Water Spout--[remove]—[add]namely Giratina, Latias, and Gastrodon--[remove]—[add]with a STAB and Soul Dew-boosted Draco Meteor. Groudon too makes shortwork of the aforementioned threats with Fire Punch and Earthquake, and can also provide Latios with Stealth Rock support, to help Latios it beat down Multiscale Lugia and Regenerator Ho-Oh.</p>

<p>Latios appreciates Spikes and Toxic Spikes support as well. As with the last set (same thing here), Ferrothorn and Forretress are wonderful partners thanks to their defensive synergy with Latios and ability to instantly litter the field with entry hazards.</p>

<p>However, these partners can also become Latios's worst enemies. If Latios doesn't pack Hidden Power Fire, Ferrothorn will have little trouble absorbing Latios's attacks. It can then set up Spikes and recover all the damage it takes with Leech Seed. Chansey is an even more terrifying foe than Ferrothorn, capable of tanking Psyshock, as it is not even 4HKOed by Psyshock after Latios has crippled himself with Draco Meteor. Latios's aversion to these Pokemon makes Ho-Oh and Blaziken very nice partners, as they boast the ability to severely dent, if not OHKO, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Chansey with their STAB moves. In return, Latios can punch holes in Giratina and Lugia so that Blaziken and Ho-Oh can more easily sweep the enemy's team later.</p>

[SET]
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Light Screen
move 2: Reflect
move 3: Draco Meteor / Roost
move 4: Memento
item: Light Clay
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[space]
[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Latios's typing, ability, high base Speed, and access to Memento, enable him to distinguish himself as an exceptionally talented dual screen user. Light Screen and Reflect enable Latios to cushion both himself and his team from the enemies' attacks for eight turns. With Memento in his arsenal, Latios can sacrifice himself to lower the offensive stats of an enemy even further, allowing a teammate a free switch-in. The third moveslot choice depends on what the team needs. If Latios's only goal is to cripple an opponent, Draco Meteor lets him do heavy damage before lowering its attacking stats. In addition, Draco Meteor prevents Latios from being destroyed by Taunt and stops Rayquaza from setting up on him. Alternatively, Latios can easily set up screens more than once a match, and Roost enables him to heal himself to do so even more reliably.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The listed EV spread allows Latios to avoid a 2HKO on average from Timid Choice Scarf Palkia's Spacial Rend, and Speed tie with other Latios and Latias. If one feels that these Pokemon are simply too uncommon and wishes to increase Latios's bulk, a spread of 252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe lets it outrun all non-Choice Scarf, while 252 HP/ 160 SpD / 96 Spe enables it to outspeed all base 90s while retaining a fairly high amount of special bulk.</p>

<p>Latios can run moves besides Draco Meteor, or use a healing move for team support. Thunder Wave enables Latios to further cripple his enemies by cutting their Speed and the chance of full paralysis can even help him get an extra boost. Tailwind enables Latios to double the Speed of his team. In particular, it can be used in conjunction with Memento for a teammate to take advantage of the boosts to both bulk and Speed. Finally, Latios can run Dragon Pulse as an option for more reliable STAB. However, Dragon Pulse is fairly weak and incapable of breaking even the Substitutes of a 252 / 0 Ho-Oh or Lugia.</p>

<p>As Latios's main purpose is to help a teammate sweep, it is a good idea to pair him up with stat-boosting teammates, such as Dragon Dance Rayquaza and Shell Smash Cloyster. In particular, Latios enjoys support from Mew and Gorebyss. They are capable of easily accumulating many boosts to pass to a teammate, who can further use the protection provided by dual screens to pave the way for a bulky sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Thunder / Grass Knot
move 4: Psyshock / Surf / Hidden Power Fire
item: Soul Dew
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Using Dragon Dance on a specially based Latios might sound absurd, but it provides a useful Speed boost that allows him to outrun and KO almost everything in the metagame. Latios's unique typing is an advantage in this case, as it allows to take advantage of a stray Surf or Fire Blast to set up with for a Dragon Dance. These unique traits allow Latios to become a potent cleaner more than capable of striking fear into all teams late game.</p>

<p>Dragon Pulse is strong, reliable STAB that will dent everything barring Chansey and Steel-types after Stealth Rock. Thunder assuages Latios's issues with Steel-types in the rain, and provides nice coverage to complement Dragon Pulse. Grass Knot, while incapable of hurting Steel-types, maims Tyranitar, Groudon, and Ground Arceus, scoring OHKOes on the latter two Pokemon and 2HKOes on Tyranitar. The last slot further improves Latios's coverage. With Psyshock, Latios gains the ability to muscle past Chansey, as the move will 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Psyshock, however, leaves Latios vulnerable to both Excadrill and Ferrothorn, two Pokemon that have little trouble stomaching the rest of Latios's attacks. Surf easily takes care of Excadrill, OHKOing it in rain, while Hidden Power Fire will OHKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill in sun. These moves also have nice coverage alongside Thunder and Grass Knot,[add] respectively.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Latios should only switch in late-game, when the opposition has been weakened. Therefore, it enjoys entry hazard support; Stealth Rock, Spikes, and Toxic Spikes can all weaken enemies so that Latios can more easily sweep late-game. Ferrothorn and Forretress again excel at this role not only for their ability to set up entry hazards, but also for their ability to handily wear down the enemy via Leech Seed, Toxic, and Pain Split. These Pokemon also lure out Fire-type moves that Latios can switch in on and use to set up a free Dragon Dance on.</p>

<p>The level of prediction it takes to set up is quite high. If you feel uneasy switching Latios into threatening Pokemon or just want to guarantee a setup opportunity, you can use Wobbuffet. Wobbuffet's access to Encore and Shadow Tag eases Latios's setup, and allows him to setup on otherwise dangerous Pokemon, such as Dialga locked into Stealth Rock or Palkia locked into Surf.</p>

<p>Weather support is near-mandatory when using Latios, as its only options for hitting Steel-types rely on the weather for sufficient power. For example, a Hidden Power Fire in rainy weather will fail to 2HKO Ferrothorn and Excadrill,[add] while a Surf in sunny weather will fail to 3HKO Heatran. If you simply cannot afford to put Kyogre or Groudon on your team, then it would be beneficial to pack extra insurance against these Pokemon. Magnezone can serve as insurance for removing these Pokemon from the match due to its unique typing and access to Magnet Pull.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Latios lacks many noteworthy options to use outside of those already listed. If you have an enormous aversion to Tyranitar and wish to maul his body around the battlefield like the fate of Hector, you can run Hidden Power Fighting. As it can also hit Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Heatran, regardless of weather, it is not completely situational. It's not recommended, though, as it is fairly weak even against targets it hits super effectively.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Like many other Ubers Pokemon, Latios has no true "counter". There are, however, some that stand out from the pack. Chansey, Ho-Oh, and Lugia are not 2HKOed by any of unboosted Latios's moves if Stealth Rock is not up.</p>

<p>You can also look to taking advantage of Latios's reliance on weather to hit enemy Steel-types. For example, Ferrothorn and Heatran are all capable of walling a Latios in detrimental weather, because Latios cannot 3HKO Heatran with a sun-weakened Surf or 2HKO Ferrothorn with a rain-weakened Hidden Power Fire. Excadrill distinguishes itself from the other Steel-types by being able to actually remove Latios from the match via Mold Breaker Earthquake if Latios is in the wrong weather. Jirachi does a similar job, but doesn't really care about which weather it is in, as it can avoid an OHKO from sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire and annoy Latios with the combination of Thunder Wave and Iron Head.</p>

<p>If you find yourself unable to pack any of these Steel-types on a team, then you might as well resort to revenge killing Latios. While Latios's Speed is high, it is susceptible to priority and faster Pokemon, particularly Swift Swim and Chlorophyll users. Users of strong physical moves, such as Kyurem-B, Garchomp, Genesect, Kabutops, and Kingdra can patch up their low Speed stat via Choice Scarf or Rain rain and remove non-Dragon Dance Latios from the field by targeting its weak Defense stat. Additionally, although Latios can normally cushion special attacks thanks to Soul Dew, he is hardly impervious to them in any way; strong special attacks can still plow through his sky-high Special Defense. Choice Scarf Dialga and Palkia can revenge kill Latios that lack a Calm Mind or Light Screen boost with STAB Draco Meteor.</p>

<p>Ghost, Dark , Rock, and Steel Arceus, are all capable of stomaching incoming Draco Meteors, and can easily set up Calm Mind or outright KO Latios with their strong physical STABs. They must be wary of Latios utilizing dual screens or opposing Calm Mind Latios though, as they will be setup bait instead. Calm Mind Latios can be taken down by adding Roar to any of Calm Mind Arceus's movesets. Dark Arceus and physically inclined Arceus can beat Calm Mind Latios too; the former is immune to Psyshock, while the latter can OHKO Latios regardless of the number of Calm Minds he has amassed.</p>

<p>All Latios variants share a crippling weakness to Dark-type moves, Pursuit in particular. Should you be able to switch a Pursuit user into Latios, it will be able to checkmate Latios. Tyranitar and Scizor distinguish themselves with their ability to not only threaten Latios with their STAB, but also to tank a Draco Meteor with ease.</p>

<p>Lastly, Wobbuffet can easily annoy every Latios variant that exists. It turns the Calm Mind, Dragon Dance, and dual screens sets into setup bait, and boasts the ability to revenge kill Latios that have already used their STAB Draco Meteor.</p>

[gp]2/2[/gp]

 

[Furai]

Sorry to nitpick in the end, but Electric-, Water-, and Ground-type moves are definitely not rare in this metagame. Resistances to Fire-, Electric-, and Grass-type moves are also p kickass. Maybe you could just remove the "rare" part?

 

[polop]

I'll get both the GP check and get rid of that stuff on Latios tommorow (or do what Furai said to do (its a little late today :P), will double post when done.

Can QC recheck this to see if info on Genesect is in all the right places also?

 

[trickroom]

You don't have to mention Genesect that much because Thunder and Draco Meteor deals major damage to it. The current counter section mention is good enough.

 

[polop]

All right trickroom, leaving analysis as it is then.

GP check by SuperJOCKE implemented, thanks for the check :D. Furai's requested changes are implemented.

This is ready to be uploaded.

 

[alexwolf]

There are still some wrong things on this analysis.

The first one:

and only offer resistances to the Grass-, Electric-, Water-, Fire-, Psychic-, Fighting-, and Ground-type attacks in return;

Only? You are claiming that he has many weaknesses to common types, and then you mention his resistances, which are even more, and describe them with the word only? This doesn't feel right...

Also:

In the rain, Surf brings down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus in the rain, thanks to the psuedo-STAB rain brings.

Has this sentence really passed through GP check? Not trying to be offensive, just can't help wondering... ''IN THE RAIN, Surf bring down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus IN THE RAIN, thanks to the pseudo-STAB RAIN brings''... Rly? Here is how the sentence should look: In the rain, Surf bring down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus.

And:

while also being able to switch into the one move Latios loathes: Outrage.

This should really be fleshed out. Outrage is one of the many moves that the 2 steel types can take which threaten Latios. There are many more, such as Shadow Sneak, Dragon Claw, Shadow Claw, U-turn, and even Draco Meteor. So why only mention Outrage? I don't get it at all.

All in all this seems a bit lacking, and really rushed, and i can't see how it passed through GP check. I have made too analyses, and the GP checkers looked after every bit of detail, and made my messy texts, able to become proper after a lot of editing. And i ask again, is this really ready?

 

[polop]

Only? You are claiming that he has many weaknesses to common types, and then you mention his resistances, which are even more, and describe them with the word only? This doesn't feel right...

Eh.... those attacks aren't exactly that common without being paired up with something that hits Latios hard back. For example, Scarf kia may run Fire Blast but it often carries Spacial Rend and Draco Meteor. If this really needs more GP checks I'm fine with it letting it go through another round. If it needs rewording I'm fine with it.

This should really be fleshed out. Outrage is one of the many moves that the 2 steel types can take which threaten Latios. There are many more, such as Shadow Sneak, Dragon Claw, Shadow Claw, U-turn, and even Draco Meteor. So why only mention Outrage? I don't get it at all.

Dragon Claw, Shadow Sneak (from its only Uber viable user) and Shadow Claw are quite weak enough to the point where they may not even OHKO Latios. Almost all of the Uber users of the move you mentioned don't exactly "outspeed" either. Shadow Claw is only commonly used by Extremekiller, and the analysis recommends only going for 16 or something Speed, why lose that Calm Mind you acquired? If your going to switch into a predicted U-turn that's just sad because you lost all momentum you could've possibly had (unless your shedinja 0_0 but NO it sucks as a partner and sucks in ubers in general). Secondly, Outrage prevents switching, so if say a Dialga or Rayquaza uses Outrage, a Steel-type can switch in without the fear of getting roasted by a Fire Blast. Aura Sphere and Brick Break also apply, but to a lesser extent. Ferrothorn and Forry may fear switching into other moves because the next move may OHKO them since the Pokemon is not locked. I can't say Shadow Claw and stuff because the users of the move can hit those Pokemon hard, endless switching with predicting does nothing but stack residual damage anyway.

In the rain, Surf brings down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus in the rain, thanks to the psuedo-STAB rain brings.

Uh that was actually a mistake I made while transferring GP checks !_!, sorry (its human error, I'm sure I'm not the ONLY ONE that has accidentally done this). Fixing but...

In the rain, Surf bring down Excadrill, Heatran, and Steel Arceus.

It should be "brings".

Again if GP wants it can go through checks again.

have made too analyses, and the GP checkers looked after every bit of detail, and made my messy texts, able to become proper after a lot of editing.

I thought Sirndpt's check was harsh though :(.

 

[Bossness]

Why aren't Giratina-O and Arceus-Normal mentioned as checks? They even have priority to take out the DD set.
372 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (48 Base Power): 198 - 234 (65.78% - 77.74%)
Thats Shadow Sneak vs Latos.
Where is physical Arceus-Ghost? He can always outspeed and remove every Latios variant from the match.
339 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (84 Base Power): 314 - 372 (104.32% - 123.59%)
Shadow Claw vs Latios.
Physical Arceus-Dragon can outspeed and KO every non-DD set.

 

[polop]

Arceus-Normal is already mentioned indirectly, it doesn't need to have a special mention (look at where I say physically inclined Arceus). Giratina-O can only get that OHKO after 3 SR switch-in's unlike Mewtwo, Latios can OHKO Giratina-O, and it doesn't have Life Orb killing it after Giratina-O crippled it. Dragon Dance and Calm Mind Latios are probably only switching-in once anyway. All they do really is wall break or sweep then die to keep momentum. If its on stall or semi-stall you have Chansey or Jirachi or Ferrothorn annoying Giratinas (lol), all can provide a mean of recovery via Leech Seed or Wish, every other check listed can actually successfully OHKO Latios or absorb the impact of his attacks and then successfully OHKO.

 

[alexwolf]

Mr.lol i don't get your reasoning at all. You don't mention stuff such as Giratina-0 and physical Arceus-Ghost as good checks, and some more, just because some of them can't ohko from full health? What if Latios comes into Kyogres Water Spout? Or Groudon's Fire Punch? You can't expect Latios to be at full health all the time, and this is why Giratina-0 is a very good check. Also Arceus-Normal can run Jolly, and then Shadow Claw deals a fuckton of damage. Dragon Claw is often too weak you say? Well this isn't a problem due to Latios's bad physical bulk, which means that he is going to get ohkoed by every single D-Claw user (especially from ones that outspeed such as Dragon Arceus, Scarf Kyurem-B, Scarf Zekrom, etc). The weaker D-Claw user in Ubers, support Groudon, deals 65.56 - 77.48% with Dragon Claw.

Also about Latios's resistances. There are always choiced mons, and against them, Latios can easily abuse his resistances. There are also many other mons that Latios can switch into, such as CM Kyogre, support Groudon, Manaphy, Thundurus, and many predicted resisted attacks. You say that most of the moves that he resists are paired with moves he is weak to. But this goes the other way too... Most of the moves he is weak too are paired with moves he resists. So i don't think it is fair to describe Latios's resistances with the word ''only''.

Thx for not taking this personally though, i appreciate it!

 

[polop]

you don't mention stuff such as Giratina-0 and physical Arceus-Ghost as good checks, and some more, just because some of them can't ohko from full health? What if Latios comes into Kyogres Water Spout? Or Groudon's Fire Punch? You can't expect Latios to be at full health all the time, and this is why Giratina-0 is a very good check. Also Arceus-Normal can run Jolly, and then Shadow Claw deals a fuckton of damage. Dragon Claw is often too weak you say? Well this isn't a problem due to Latios's bad physical bulk, which means that he is going to get ohkoed by every single D-Claw user (especially from ones that outspeed such as Dragon Arceus, Scarf Kyurem-B, Scarf Zekrom, etc). The weaker D-Claw user in Ubers, support Groudon, deals 65.56 - 77.48% with Dragon Claw.

All physical Arceus forms were already mentioned <.<, I even highlighted on Ghost Arceus's ability to enter a Calm Mind war and come out victorious. The weaker and most Dragon Claw users in Ubers are OHKOed before they move if they aren't running a Choice Scarf.

Dark Arceus and physically inclined Arceus can beat Calm Mind Latios too; the former is immune to Psyshock, while the latter can OHKO Latios regardless of the number of Calm Minds he has amassed.

Look somewhere around there and you will notice that stuff has already been mentioned.

Well this isn't a problem due to Latios's bad physical bulk, which means that he is going to get ohkoed by every single D-Claw user (especially from ones that outspeed such as Dragon Arceus, Scarf Kyurem-B, Scarf Zekrom, etc). The weaker D-Claw user in Ubers, support Groudon, deals 65.56 - 77.48% with Dragon Claw.

I already mentioned strong users of Choiced Physical moves or things that can OHKO Latios under rain thanks to swift swim <.<.

You can't expect Latios to be at full health all the time, and this is why Giratina-0 is a very good check.

Actually since all of them barring Special Dragon Dance can run Roost, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Giratina-O can check Mewtwo because Mewtwo lacks the ability to OHKO it, its not that way with Latios because Giratina-O, has one trouble switching in on it. Secondly it is OHKOed by Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor (which are conveniently slashed on all sets). Three, Latios doesn't take Life Orb damage so the damage it did may not matter in the end. Four, it can quite possibly stay in high enough HP with Roost to avoid getting OHKOed by Shadow Sneak. The exception is Dragon Dance but thats like abusing Surfs in sun (Heatran) and Fire Blasts in rain (ferrothorn) or Choiced Earthquakes 0_0 (yes this is kind of rare...), all of which can't even drop Latios into that HP amount even after Stealth Rock (well unless Gravity is up but that's just silly).

Most of the moves he is weak too are paired with moves he resists. So i don't think it is fair to describe Latios's resistances with the word ''only''.

I kind of understand this sentence but I'm also a bit confused as to what you mean :(. Besides I already addressed this earlier.

If it needs rewording I'm fine with it.

Thx for not taking this personally though, i appreciate it!

:D, this is a forum not British Parliament lol, I don't see how it is possible to take it personally XD, your welcome.