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Tournament LC Old Gens League: Finals | Won by LilyAC
- Thread starter Joltage
- Start date
Semis Time!
General Tournament Rules:
General tournament rules and regulations can be found here.
Battles should take place on the Pokemon Showdown or SmogTours server.
Replays must be saved and posted
Semi-final Matchups
LilyAC (SM) vs Plas (DPP)
GOAO (ORAS) vs brewfasa (BW)
]
Same rules as last round. As a refesher: During the Knockout stage, players will play their opponent in a Bo3 series where the first 2 games of the series will be in each of the players’ “home tiers.” The deciding game 3 will be played in a “neutral site tier” to be decided upon between the players when scheduling, or in the same tier as games 1 and 2 should both players have the same “home tier.”
Tier Specific Rules and Resources
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
Important Information
Once again, Replays are required for this tour. The folks at home clamor to see you beautiful people fight with your baby animals, so don't disappoint the fans.
Also as a reminder, decide on the Tiebreaker Metagame when scheduling so that each of you has the best possible chance to properly prepare.
DEADLINE: Sunday, April 12th at 11:59 PM EDT (GMT-4)
Best of luck to all competitors!
General Tournament Rules:
General tournament rules and regulations can be found here.
Battles should take place on the Pokemon Showdown or SmogTours server.
Replays must be saved and posted
Semi-final Matchups
LilyAC (SM) vs Plas (DPP)
GOAO (ORAS) vs brewfasa (BW)
Same rules as last round. As a refesher: During the Knockout stage, players will play their opponent in a Bo3 series where the first 2 games of the series will be in each of the players’ “home tiers.” The deciding game 3 will be played in a “neutral site tier” to be decided upon between the players when scheduling, or in the same tier as games 1 and 2 should both players have the same “home tier.”
Tier Specific Rules and Resources
SM will be the same as it was when the generation finished its lifecycle. It was contemplated to institute some changes, likely either a Vullaby or Webs banning, but no consensus was reached in the planning phase of this tour. So SM games in this tour will follow standard SM LC clauses.
SM VR
SM Analyses
SM VR
SM Analyses
ORAS will also not be altered for this tour and will follow standard ORAS LC clauses.
ORAS VR
ORAS Analyses
ORAS VR
ORAS Analyses
BW is where things change, as both Misdreavus and all Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, etc.) will be banned. Misdreavus has long been cited as a problem for BW LC that has gone unchanged, and this tour will give us an opportunity to explore the meta in a new light. Sleep moves being banned is a decision made in accordance with their recent banning in BW OU as Sleep has come to be considered a broken mechanic in the 5th Generation. Other than that, all other standard BW LC clauses apply. I hope that these changes will entice people to give the tier another shot and hopefully change the meta for the better.
BW VR
BW Analyses (Not really all that useful with such a big shakeup, but here they are anyway)
BW VR
BW Analyses (Not really all that useful with such a big shakeup, but here they are anyway)
DPP will also see changes as all Sleep inducing moves will be banned here as well. This decision has been made with the perception and understanding that the previous ban of just Hypnosis was not enough to fix the problem with Sleep in DPP. Other than that, all standard DPP LC clauses apply.
DPP VR
DPP Analyses
DPP VR
DPP Analyses
Important Information
Once again, Replays are required for this tour. The folks at home clamor to see you beautiful people fight with your baby animals, so don't disappoint the fans.
Also as a reminder, decide on the Tiebreaker Metagame when scheduling so that each of you has the best possible chance to properly prepare.
DEADLINE: Sunday, April 12th at 11:59 PM EDT (GMT-4)
Best of luck to all competitors!
Last edited:
Don't worry, we've had pretty positive reviews about it this tour. It'll be fun!
Finals Baby! Let's get it
General Tournament Rules:
General tournament rules and regulations can be found here.
Battles should take place on the Pokemon Showdown or SmogTours server.
Replays must be saved and posted
Finals Matchup
LilyAC (SM) vs brewfasa (BW)
Same rules as last round. As a refesher: During the Knockout stage, players will play their opponent in a Bo3 series where the first 2 games of the series will be in each of the players’ “home tiers.” The deciding game 3 will be played in a “neutral site tier” to be decided upon between the players when scheduling, or in the same tier as games 1 and 2 should both players have the same “home tier.”
Tier Specific Rules and Resources
SM
ORAS
BW
DPP
Important Information
Once again, Replays are required for this tour. The folks at home clamor to see you beautiful people fight with your baby animals, so don't disappoint the fans.
Also as a reminder, decide on the Tiebreaker Metagame when scheduling so that each of you has the best possible chance to properly prepare.
DEADLINE: Whenever really, let's just say April 19th at 11:59 pm (GMT-4) to keep it consistent
Also, I'd love to be able to catch this final set live, so if y'all could let me know when you guys play, that'd be pretty dope.
Best of luck to all competitors!
General Tournament Rules:
General tournament rules and regulations can be found here.
Battles should take place on the Pokemon Showdown or SmogTours server.
Replays must be saved and posted
Finals Matchup
LilyAC (SM) vs brewfasa (BW)
Same rules as last round. As a refesher: During the Knockout stage, players will play their opponent in a Bo3 series where the first 2 games of the series will be in each of the players’ “home tiers.” The deciding game 3 will be played in a “neutral site tier” to be decided upon between the players when scheduling, or in the same tier as games 1 and 2 should both players have the same “home tier.”
Tier Specific Rules and Resources
SM will be the same as it was when the generation finished its lifecycle. It was contemplated to institute some changes, likely either a Vullaby or Webs banning, but no consensus was reached in the planning phase of this tour. So SM games in this tour will follow standard SM LC clauses.
SM VR
SM Analyses
SM VR
SM Analyses
ORAS will also not be altered for this tour and will follow standard ORAS LC clauses.
ORAS VR
ORAS Analyses
ORAS VR
ORAS Analyses
BW is where things change, as both Misdreavus and all Sleep inducing moves (Spore, Sleep Powder, Hypnosis, etc.) will be banned. Misdreavus has long been cited as a problem for BW LC that has gone unchanged, and this tour will give us an opportunity to explore the meta in a new light. Sleep moves being banned is a decision made in accordance with their recent banning in BW OU as Sleep has come to be considered a broken mechanic in the 5th Generation. Other than that, all other standard BW LC clauses apply. I hope that these changes will entice people to give the tier another shot and hopefully change the meta for the better.
BW VR
BW Analyses (Not really all that useful with such a big shakeup, but here they are anyway)
BW VR
BW Analyses (Not really all that useful with such a big shakeup, but here they are anyway)
DPP will also see changes as all Sleep inducing moves will be banned here as well. This decision has been made with the perception and understanding that the previous ban of just Hypnosis was not enough to fix the problem with Sleep in DPP. Other than that, all standard DPP LC clauses apply.
DPP VR
DPP Analyses
DPP VR
DPP Analyses
Important Information
Once again, Replays are required for this tour. The folks at home clamor to see you beautiful people fight with your baby animals, so don't disappoint the fans.
Also as a reminder, decide on the Tiebreaker Metagame when scheduling so that each of you has the best possible chance to properly prepare.
DEADLINE: Whenever really, let's just say April 19th at 11:59 pm (GMT-4) to keep it consistent
Also, I'd love to be able to catch this final set live, so if y'all could let me know when you guys play, that'd be pretty dope.
Best of luck to all competitors!
Hype finals, excited to watch the new school take on one of LC's longest continual players
fatty's shown a lot of neat stuff in new BW and I haven't seen lily play a single game all tour so I think brewfasa's favoured quite a bit
SM probably leans in lily's favour but honestly anything can happen with a neat z-tech landing or haxy Broken Bird
Not sure where game 3 will take us but both ORAS and DPP are matchup-based tiers so it could go any direction
ORAS diverse trapping options exacerbates matchup effects to quite a large degree
DPP has no Eviolite, boosted Boom, and no preview - it's hard to plan or play any type of defensive game here
Some observations on the tour format:
Digging this new BW - hope it's here to stay
SM Vullaby needs to go
ORAS lmao it's actually unfixable so just let it be a beautiful clusterfuck i guess
fatty's shown a lot of neat stuff in new BW and I haven't seen lily play a single game all tour so I think brewfasa's favoured quite a bit
SM probably leans in lily's favour but honestly anything can happen with a neat z-tech landing or haxy Broken Bird
Not sure where game 3 will take us but both ORAS and DPP are matchup-based tiers so it could go any direction
ORAS diverse trapping options exacerbates matchup effects to quite a large degree
DPP has no Eviolite, boosted Boom, and no preview - it's hard to plan or play any type of defensive game here
Some observations on the tour format:
Digging this new BW - hope it's here to stay
SM Vullaby needs to go
ORAS lmao it's actually unfixable so just let it be a beautiful clusterfuck i guess
GOAO
Banned deucer.
i agree the new bw is much better, it feels nice to play and i think teambuilding plays a good part. might be too matchupy but havent played enough. with sm i think the main issue is definitely webs, there are too many strong mons in abra gastly diggersby mixvulla that make webs absolutely broken imo. webs teams have been optimized too and are no longer the suicide lead surskity type thing so you can actually get webs up more than once if they are spun or defogged. oras feels quite fine, i might be bias because i really like the tier but id like to hear why you think it sucks zf
just to hype up dpp, i think its really fun with its all fast paced style. idk if the sleep ban matters that much but the tier doenst have anything to be fixed, honestly. its p much perfect.
as in for the finals, i think lily is favored in sm by a large margin and fatty is favored in bw in an even larger one - if oras is the tiebreak id say lily wins, if its dpp its honestly a coinflip, both are good and it depends on their teams. shoutouts Joltage for hosting this - it might've sucked to deal with the activity issues on the early rounds but its really nice to see oldgen lc get some love, you're a king.
just to hype up dpp, i think its really fun with its all fast paced style. idk if the sleep ban matters that much but the tier doenst have anything to be fixed, honestly. its p much perfect.
as in for the finals, i think lily is favored in sm by a large margin and fatty is favored in bw in an even larger one - if oras is the tiebreak id say lily wins, if its dpp its honestly a coinflip, both are good and it depends on their teams. shoutouts Joltage for hosting this - it might've sucked to deal with the activity issues on the early rounds but its really nice to see oldgen lc get some love, you're a king.
GOAO
i like oras quite a bit (much more than SM or SS), despite calling it a clusterfuck. it is my home tier, after all.
My main gripe is its raw power level relative to SM and new BW, an issue I feel that when combined with flexible trapping, really pushes teambuilding constraints to their limits.
For example, the need to pack untrappable Fletch/Mienfoo resists, the unviability of defensive cores in general (gasp!), etc.
To elaborate, take for example, fighting checks - Foongus (trapped by Goth unless Worry Seed, which still loses to SubRest), Spritzee (trapped by CM Goth), Snubbull (trapped by LO Dig after chip), Cottonee (trapped by LO Sludge Dig), etc are all trappable. It's extremely easy to tailor a team to keep momentum and double up on offensive breakers while relying on trappers to remove key threats - it's why, if you look at my team dumps, you'll see heavy emphasis on Cottonee + threat + trapper teams. Trapping can be applied to remove pretty much every defensive answer in the tier in some way - Mag for all steels, Goth for anything "weak'', Dig for most offensive threats...
That said, trapping provides a necessary way to break fat structures in ORAS - no one wants to play against some variant of Porygon / Foongus / Staryu / Chinchou / Fighter / FerroSpritz etc every match. There's also slight counterplay to trapping by using Scarf Dig, Trace Porygon, Pursuit to remove opposing trappers... but it heavily favors the trapping user in terms of playmaking or requires very specialized teambuilding design to remove trappers by stacking similar mons + aforementioned counterplay.
There's no good way to remove trapping from ORAS - in my mind, it is synonymous with the tier as a whole. Hence why I called it a clusterfuck.
It is a tier that requires good planning, good teambuilding, and excellent play - in its current state, a single wrong move will cost you the match every time. A player with poor matchup must also understand exactly what plays they need to make to win, and execute flawlessly; many times midgrounds are not an option.
i like oras quite a bit (much more than SM or SS), despite calling it a clusterfuck. it is my home tier, after all.
My main gripe is its raw power level relative to SM and new BW, an issue I feel that when combined with flexible trapping, really pushes teambuilding constraints to their limits.
For example, the need to pack untrappable Fletch/Mienfoo resists, the unviability of defensive cores in general (gasp!), etc.
To elaborate, take for example, fighting checks - Foongus (trapped by Goth unless Worry Seed, which still loses to SubRest), Spritzee (trapped by CM Goth), Snubbull (trapped by LO Dig after chip), Cottonee (trapped by LO Sludge Dig), etc are all trappable. It's extremely easy to tailor a team to keep momentum and double up on offensive breakers while relying on trappers to remove key threats - it's why, if you look at my team dumps, you'll see heavy emphasis on Cottonee + threat + trapper teams. Trapping can be applied to remove pretty much every defensive answer in the tier in some way - Mag for all steels, Goth for anything "weak'', Dig for most offensive threats...
That said, trapping provides a necessary way to break fat structures in ORAS - no one wants to play against some variant of Porygon / Foongus / Staryu / Chinchou / Fighter / FerroSpritz etc every match. There's also slight counterplay to trapping by using Scarf Dig, Trace Porygon, Pursuit to remove opposing trappers... but it heavily favors the trapping user in terms of playmaking or requires very specialized teambuilding design to remove trappers by stacking similar mons + aforementioned counterplay.
There's no good way to remove trapping from ORAS - in my mind, it is synonymous with the tier as a whole. Hence why I called it a clusterfuck.
It is a tier that requires good planning, good teambuilding, and excellent play - in its current state, a single wrong move will cost you the match every time. A player with poor matchup must also understand exactly what plays they need to make to win, and execute flawlessly; many times midgrounds are not an option.
defeated fatty, ggs!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5lc-1099626821-9gwzr6t6ptmlheeadw64pzgy6on3q8xpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-1099631755-g1wp205qsp28dqzq5n7bqa3nydv89gdpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6lc-1099640721-2vgu6zsoelj3xufdgf4lpf6ntog6ea5pw
s/o dcae for bw, even if i lost
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5lc-1099626821-9gwzr6t6ptmlheeadw64pzgy6on3q8xpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7lc-1099631755-g1wp205qsp28dqzq5n7bqa3nydv89gdpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen6lc-1099640721-2vgu6zsoelj3xufdgf4lpf6ntog6ea5pw
s/o dcae for bw, even if i lost
Congratulations to LilyAC on becoming the first LC Old Gens League Champion!
Also want to congratulate brewfasa on his fantastic tour run
Big thank you to everyone who participated in this tour and helped make it a success. I hope this was an opportunity for people to play and learn tiers that they may not have given a chance to previously, and that everyone had fun throughout. Stay tuned later this year for the next edition of the LC Old Gens League!
Also want to congratulate brewfasa on his fantastic tour run
Big thank you to everyone who participated in this tour and helped make it a success. I hope this was an opportunity for people to play and learn tiers that they may not have given a chance to previously, and that everyone had fun throughout. Stay tuned later this year for the next edition of the LC Old Gens League!