Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[dhelmise]

Three new votes are up now:

Change Technician for Protean or Torrent on Mega Greninja (as a last chance to balance it): https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431757539082637415

Change Mold Breaker for Fluffy on Mega Ampharos: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431758179196338278

Change Mega Chandelure's ability from Flash Fire (a runoff vote will happen if this passes): https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431758457312383120

Deadline is <t:1761458400:R>

Again, discord invite link for those who want to vote but haven't joined yet: https://discord.gg/GvFzF6j4Yc

 

[singaporygon]

Damn I just got banned from the Discord because I was saying why I thought it was bad precedent to change the abilities of Official Megas that we know about, such as Mega Ampharos. I was using calm reasoning too and not just whining. I wasn't going to go on and on anyways.

It seems toxic to me and abuse of power just to silence someone because they are different than the moderator and doesn't fit into the moderators worldview, whoever that one Discord mod was that banned me. And this also takes away the voting rights of an active player that wants to make the pet mod better and share teams with others on the Discord.

 

[dhelmise]

Damn I just got banned from the Discord because I was saying why I thought it was bad precedent to change the abilities of Official Megas that we know about, such as Mega Ampharos. I was using calm reasoning too and not just whining. I wasn't going to go on and on anyways.

It seems toxic to me and abuse of power just to silence someone because they are different than the moderator and doesn't fit into the moderators worldview, whoever that one Discord mod was that banned me. And this also takes away the voting rights of an active player that wants to make the pet mod better and share teams with others on the Discord.

I banned you because you were bashing the pet mod and also bashing the concept of petmods as a whole, calling them deeply unserious etc. There is a difference between having an opinion on a ban and thinking that the concept is dumb because the voting process isn't as slow as you'd like it to be or that we're doing "fanservice" changes to attempt to make more megas OU-viable.

If you think this is power abuse then I don't think I can change your mind, but bashing a community seems like reason enough to forfeit your ability to vote on changes to this metagame.

This is the only post I will make on the matter and will not accept any further discussion about it.

 

[Cuddly]

Imo if we're going for Balancing, Ampharos should get Fur Coat. Fluffy doesn't go far enough for Mega Ampharos. There still are moves like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Diamond Storm, Hyper Space Fury, Thousand Arrows that bypass Fluffy and are pretty relevant. Especially Earthquake.
It kind of defeats the purpose of making Ampharos a physical tank if its going to still be KO'd easily by common physical coverage anyways.
It wouldn't be overpowered since Mega Ampharos is still weak to Ground.
For reference:

Mega Amph w/Fur Coat vs Physical attackers that could bypass Fluffy

252+ Atk Excadrill-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 206-246 (53.7 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 151-178 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 176-210 (45.9 - 54.8%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 146-174 (38.1 - 45.4%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 133-157 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage
+2 252 Atk Barbaracle-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 222-262 (57.9 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Ampharos-Mega: 158-188 (41.2 - 49%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So basically majority of Physical Attackers in the tier get the jump on Ampharos with just Fluffy anyways. You only get to use your ability to pivot into above's contact moves and to fight against Mega Lopunny, Mega Starmie, Mega Skarmory, Mega Chesnaught, Mega Mawile (which btw does around 80% anyways lol), Scizor, and Physical Aegislash variants.

I'd also like to remind the jury that Mega Froslass gets Snow Warning, which in addition to providing perfectly accurate Blizzards also buffs Mega Froslass's Def by x1.5 and after Aurora Veil buffs her Def by x3 and SpD by x2 for a period. And this is on a Pokemon with 120 Speed, 140 SpA, and 2 of the most spammable STAB coverage moves in Ice and Ghost.
So if you're concerned about Fur Coat making Mega Ampharos too good, just remember Mega Froslass exists.

 

[singaporygon]

I'm asking this out of genuine wonder and brainstorming...since we are going beyond filling in the blanks, and buffing lower viability mons to higher viability because that's what the community wants, then like what about debuffing OP mons that people think are cool? Like are there reasons why we can't ban thousand arrows and keep regular zyg? Is it still problematic even without arrows? Is this something that's only programmable possible through a complex clause? Or if enough people want it, then it would be polled?

 

[Magcargo]

I did mention it earlier but Krookidile is really good. Amazing STAB combination, Intimidate + Rocks + Pursuit utility, and its one of the best checks to Hoopa-U thanks to initmidate + Pursuit. Been running some generic, offensive helmet attacking set, but I could see this mon easily delving into its movepool to run other stuff like Gunk Shot for the various Fairies (like Clefable and Floette) in the future.

Mega Starmie would be pretty OP if it was able to run Boots, but currently I feel its pretty managable due to all the chip damage its aquiring throughout a game, and its Mega bulk still not being THAT great. Feels you have to make 50 / 50s against a lot of the standard cores with Vaporeon or Slowbro, and you want a lot of moves between Flip Turn, Ice Beam, Recover, Thunderbolt, Zen Headbutt, etc. I've needed to keep it in base form a few times when using special moves in order to avoid getting burned by common moves like Volcanion's Steam Eruption (which it is still taking a fuckton from btw). I'm not a fan of its MU into greninja teams.

Scrafty can be OP in the right match-up, but Skarmory and Clefable are very annoying roadblocks for the bulk up set. You likely need to pair it with lures to handle these guys. Even then, harzards are also extremely annoying. Spdef Excadrill just ain't enough as support.

People were saying Mega Emboar was bad, but ngl, this shit feels impossible to deal with whenever I see it - insane bulk and speed tier make it feel like the counterplay is really flimsy, esp after a Bulk Up. Its Sucker Punch is also ridiculously strong.

I think Mega Excadrill is pretty broken, but given how good regular Exca is, it does seem like people aren't inclined to run it. Not complaining, but I see it being an issue down the line.

 

[ValiantValerie]

Adamant hits 339 Speed which speed ties Base 105s, which frankly is already disgusting for a Pokemon with 100 Atk and Pure Power. It’s a decent size gap, you get outsped by Jolly Megagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Skarmory, but like you also have Aqua Jet and good bulk for how fast and powerful you are. And those are the most Meta relevant Pokemon you no longer naturally outspeed.
It also works the other way around too. None of those Pokemon are switching into Liquidation than Aqua Jet. Hell Mega Gallade dies to 1 Liquidation and 2 Aqua Jets.
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade-Mega: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade-Mega: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I don’t even think Mega Starmie should be quickbanned. It should get a suspect test for sure, but it still has SOME flaws at least.
Unless a Pokemon with Drizzle besides Mega Drampa or Kyoger comes along, then which case Starmie needs to be quickbanned.

So it's a slightly faster Mega Medicham? To overcome its speed issues you are running mono stabs to get utterly ruined by Slowbro, especially Rocky Helmet. Yes, Pursuit can help, but you have to keep in mind that you're doing less than it is healing with Regenerator: 252+ Atk Pure Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO.

Checks to sets using Thunderbolt (hardest to wall) like Slowking, SpD Slowbro, and Gourgeist are also weak to Pursuit yes, but this is just not the performance of a broken Pokemon. Yes after you Pursuit trap your checks two or three times (however is enough to outdamage Regenerator and Gourgeist Wisping your TTar), Mega Starmie loses defensive switch ins, is that crazy to you? Think of Tapu Lele whenever its legal, cant be revenged by priority and has coverage to nuke all its common switch ins (Heatran, Ferrothorn, Galarian Slowking, Corviknight etc). SM & SS are considered two of the most balanced and enjoyed OU gens, because a Pokemon being difficult to wall doesn't make it broken, especially if you need reads and/or support. Or perhaps, the most accurate comparison; Mega Medicham really appreciates Pursuit support annihilating Ghosts, Mega Latias, and Slowbro, but it isn't even OU by usage let alone broken.

What Starmie is doing here is simply being the better player and using teammates to cover its checks so it can win the game, you deserve to get rewarded for successfuly doubling in Tyranitar and bringing Starmie onto the field multiple times, teams that can't stop this deserve to get punished. I've been using a variety of teams and defensive cores yet I've never truly had trouble with Megamie, Im not really falling back on 2 or 3 mons every team to save me, Im just not playing poorly enough to give Starmie the breathing room to 1v1 any of its soft checks, and you should too!

 

[Salty3345]

I honestly feel like new toy syndrome is clouding the mega sphere right now, becuase honestly people should be looking at Mega Metagross. With all the new moves Meta got from gen 9, Mega Meta is a seriously strong, possibly borderline busted mega that also gets 33% power boost on any contact move which it has many: heavy slam, knock off, , trailblaze, body press, psychic fangs, and even stall stuff with cosmic power and refresh, and those are just a few of its insane movepool. Mega Meta has the tools and the stats to beat every mega if played right, and often times with mons like Skarmory, Hippowdon or Volcanion weakened, Mega Meta can just trailblaze and end the game right there. Its honestly amazing its OU with all the busted tools it has, i think it needs some serious looking at.

 

[sheepie]

I honestly feel like new toy syndrome is clouding the mega sphere right now, becuase honestly people should be looking at Mega Metagross. With all the new moves Meta got from gen 9, Mega Meta is a seriously strong, possibly borderline busted mega that also gets 33% power boost on any contact move which it has many: heavy slam, knock off, , trailblaze, body press, psychic fangs, and even stall stuff with cosmic power and refresh, and those are just a few of its insane movepool. Mega Meta has the tools and the stats to beat every mega if played right, and often times with mons like Skarmory, Hippowdon or Volcanion weakened, Mega Meta can just trailblaze and end the game right there. Its honestly amazing its OU with all the busted tools it has, i think it needs some serious looking at.

its banned as of very recently (free my boi he did nothing wrong)

 

[Cuddly]

So it's a slightly faster Mega Medicham? To overcome its speed issues you are running mono stabs to get utterly ruined by Slowbro, especially Rocky Helmet. Yes, Pursuit can help, but you have to keep in mind that you're doing less than it is healing with Regenerator: 252+ Atk Pure Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO.

Checks to sets using Thunderbolt (hardest to wall) like Slowking, SpD Slowbro, and Gourgeist are also weak to Pursuit yes, but this is just not the performance of a broken Pokemon. Yes after you Pursuit trap your checks two or three times (however is enough to outdamage Regenerator and Gourgeist Wisping your TTar), Mega Starmie loses defensive switch ins, is that crazy to you? Think of Tapu Lele whenever its legal, cant be revenged by priority and has coverage to nuke all its common switch ins (Heatran, Ferrothorn, Galarian Slowking, Corviknight etc). SM & SS are considered two of the most balanced and enjoyed OU gens, because a Pokemon being difficult to wall doesn't make it broken, especially if you need reads and/or support. Or perhaps, the most accurate comparison; Mega Medicham really appreciates Pursuit support annihilating Ghosts, Mega Latias, and Slowbro, but it isn't even OU by usage let alone broken.

What Starmie is doing here is simply being the better player and using teammates to cover its checks so it can win the game, you deserve to get rewarded for successfuly doubling in Tyranitar and bringing Starmie onto the field multiple times, teams that can't stop this deserve to get punished. I've been using a variety of teams and defensive cores yet I've never truly had trouble with Megamie, Im not really falling back on 2 or 3 mons every team to save me, Im just not playing poorly enough to give Starmie the breathing room to 1v1 any of its soft checks, and you should too!

A faster and bulkier Mega Medicham, yes. Mega Starmie is basically Mega for Mega Medicham when all of Mega Starmie's stats are all equal or higher than Mega Medicham's. That's how vast majority of people run Starmie and sometimes add in Thunderbolt to make match-ups against Slowbro slightly easier. Most people are running Adamant to maximize Pure Power's x2 bonus and can get away with it due to Starmie having speed from Rapid Spin and having Aqua Jet.
And yeah Thunderbolt means you can more reliably beat Slowbro, but Slowbro and bulkier Mega Gyarados are like 1 and a half Pokemon. And the other thing that can even resist Water/Psychic while having good defenses is Goodra-H which resists Electric anyways. So like 9/10 the better move is to just Flip Turn into one of Starmie's 5 teammates to deal with those 3.
I think Thunderbolt would have more merit with a larger dex and having more Water types that resist Psychic or something, and maybe even to avoid Flame Body burns from Moltres.

 

[ValiantValerie]

A faster and bulkier Mega Medicham, yes. Mega Starmie is basically Mega for Mega Medicham when all of Mega Starmie's stats are all equal or higher than Mega Medicham's. That's how vast majority of people run Starmie and sometimes add in Thunderbolt to make match-ups against Slowbro slightly easier. Most people are running Adamant to maximize Pure Power's x2 bonus and can get away with it due to Starmie having speed from Rapid Spin and having Aqua Jet.
And yeah Thunderbolt means you can more reliably beat Slowbro, but Slowbro and bulkier Mega Gyarados are like 1 and a half Pokemon. And the other thing that can even resist Water/Psychic while having good defenses is Goodra-H which resists Electric anyways. So like 9/10 the better move is to just Flip Turn into one of Starmie's 5 teammates to deal with those 3.
I think Thunderbolt would have more merit with a larger dex and having more Water types that resist Psychic or something, and maybe even to avoid Flame Body burns from Moltres.

Thunderbolt also means you don't take Helmet chip when attacking Skarmory. I don't disagree that Flip Turn Starmie is viable and good of course, but the way we're describing it my original statement stands; It's not broken. Teams have flexibility in how to cover it in the teambuilder, and if Starmie outplays you the whole game and gets rid of its checks, then Starmie deserves the win IMO.

 

[Stories]

Hola, I wanna write about how absurd Mega Floette-Eternal is :O

The ability is basically Poison Heal, which is already a huge deal for anything with decent stats. With Sub + Protect you can sit in front of a lot of passive Pokemon, setting up Calm Mind againsts Clefable, Slowbro, Umbreon, etc..

There aren't many good fairy resists. All the Poison-types are just megas who lose HP per turn from the ability, and Slowking-G who gets Pursuit trapped. the Steel-types like Excadrill and Metagross get Pursuit trapped, Skarmory generally takes too much damage from boosted Moonblast unless it's specially defensive with Iron Head or Whirlwind, and Aegislash cannot even beat it 1v1 because Protect forces itself into the Sword form. Scizor is a pretty solid check but is also easy enough to stall out all the Roosts I think.

333 speed is the same as Garchomp and even without investment Floette hits very hard so it can easily just run speed + bulk and act like Gliscor does in SV OU but even better.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468936267-bu72g5t3juetl2q8ahcsgx0t4uwjw7fpw

Games like this really showcase what it can do, this game got me to #5 on current ladder

 

[Ultraman1]

Peaked Top 3 ladder with Mega Dragalge

Team: https://pokepast.es/106f4f0642e06ee0

Before the limitation of Hidden Power and Toxic, my Dragalge usually uses HP Fire instead of Scald and my Zydog + Excadrill use Toxic for their final moveslot.

Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468843734-072jklaemu529rqbp8ycndm085vqv9jpw?p2

 

[fucsiada]

Thanks to emillight, Meteordash, Kennedy, Eli, and Sectonia for letting me bounce ideas off of them while writing/coding this!

Current Ability Assignments

Clefable-Mega: Serene Grace
Victreebel-Mega: Corrosion
Starmie-Mega: Pure Power, -40 Atk
Dragonite-Mega: Soul-Heart
Meganium-Mega: Flower Veil
Feraligatr-Mega: Dragon's Maw
Skarmory-Mega: Tough Claws
Gallade-Mega: Sharpness
Froslass-Mega: Snow Warning
Emboar-Mega: Supreme Overlord
Excadrill-Mega: Mold Breaker
Audino-Mega: Regenerator
Scolipede-Mega: Tinted Lens
Scrafty-Mega: Shed Skin
Eelektross-Mega: Ion Battery (Levitate + Plus + Minus)
Chandelure-Mega: Flash Fire
Chesnaught-Mega: Protective Thorns (Bulletproof + Iron Barbs)
Delphox-Mega: Levitate
Greninja-Mega: Technician
Pyroar-Mega: Drought
Dragalge-Mega: Regenerator
Floette-Mega: Ange (Recover 1/12 max HP every turn, vs Megas: Drain 1/10 of their HP every turn instead)
Malamar-Mega: Contrarian (Contrary + Simple)
Barbaracle-Mega: Tough Claws
Hawlucha-Mega: Luchador's Pride (Moxie but for Speed)
Zygarde-Mega: Aura Break
Drampa-Mega: Drizzle
Falinks-Mega: Brass Bond (Moves hit 3 times, 2nd/3rd hits do 15% damage of the first hit, 2nd/3rd hits don't have additional effects)

First of all I wanted to say how much I love that this metagame was created. Me and my friends have a own League that we play with each other, each Season with different Themes.
Naturally, we were excited to make another season using the new megas(our favorite gimmick). So we were super pumped to hear about the custom abilitys as a waypoint for us(and the starmie adjustment). but we are doing it with all mons(National dex(Part of our ruleset)).First we jsut wanted to adjust the "New" abiulitys so that it is usable in cutom game, but since there are allways new ones being made and the season is starting soon its gonna be problematic to adjust mid Teambuilding(invent new abilitys without giving advantage to the one having the mon in the draft)
Soooo i just wanted to ask if it was, maybe, possible to add these abilitys to custom game so that it is considered valid. Or even better make a netdex version of the metagame?
Either way thanks for the work and Balancing yall have done for us to be able to experience Pokemon the way we love it!

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I know there's a lot going on with other megas such as gren, but I'm so tired of mega-.

Greninja is a demon, but Starmie is satanic. Atleast with Greninja there's answers to specific sets, Sylveon, Dragalge, Clefable, Umbreon, etc. can wall some of its sets occationally. But Starmie? Starmie doesn't give a shit.

@ Starminite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunderbolt

Imo this is the strongest and most problematic set because it doesn't have any consistent switch ins. Regular Slowking and Goodra-Hisui can take a hit, but the former needs foul play do revenge kill and the latter doesn't have recovery. One flinch or defense drop away from death anyways. The most consistent answer is to revenge kill it with Greninja, but man that sucks. It does a million damage, outspeeds you and flip turns out if it can't kill you and it's bulky enough to take a neutral hit or two. It doesn't need all of its sets, but it can easily switch it up if an answer becomes too popular. Nothing is safe, it's always a problem, please take this into consideration on your next set.

That's all I wanted to say, please ban this ballerina.

Also, good job on the efficient and transparent council strategy dhelmise, loving the meta - broken shit and all.

 

[Liahuos]

At first i apologise for my english language skills



Mega Evolution: Mega Emboar

New Ability: General Duty

Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Grant Mega Emboar a speed and attack boost when he come on the field after an ally is K.Od

Reasoning: Dex entry emphasis on how he like to only use is true speed and strength in difficult moment and is always here to save his allies



Mega Evolution: Mega Greninja

New Ability: Protean

Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist):

Reasoning: I think it make sense for it to keep it, it say that he don't stealth anymore but it also mean that he's always a step ahead so being able to adapt to his enemy fit to this



Mega Evolution: Mega Clefable

New Ability: Fairy Aura

Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist):

Reasoning: Fit more than Serene Grace imo, it can fly using moon power and it cant even use serene grace to flinch due it speed



Mega Evolution: Mega Meganium

New Ability: Bloom Benediction

Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): During harsh sunlight, Bloom Benediction increases the Special Attack and Defense stats of the Pokémon with this Ability and its allies by 50%. (Swap Flower Gift)

Reasoning: It petal have benefit that create aura around it so it explains the ally boost in duo and it mega say that it have powerful solar beam

 

[ValiantValerie]

I know there's a lot going on with other megas such as gren, but I'm so tired of mega-.

Greninja is a demon, but Starmie is satanic. Atleast with Greninja there's answers to specific sets, Sylveon, Dragalge, Clefable, Umbreon, etc. can wall some of its sets occationally. But Starmie? Starmie doesn't give a shit.

@ Starminite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunderbolt

Imo this is the strongest and most problematic set because it doesn't have any consistent switch ins. Regular Slowking and Goodra-Hisui can take a hit, but the former needs foul play do revenge kill and the latter doesn't have recovery. One flinch or defense drop away from death anyways. The most consistent answer is to revenge kill it with Greninja, but man that sucks. It does a million damage, outspeeds you and flip turns out if it can't kill you and it's bulky enough to take a neutral hit or two. It doesn't need all of its sets, but it can easily switch it up if an answer becomes too popular. Nothing is safe, it's always a problem, please take this into consideration on your next set.

That's all I wanted to say, please ban this ballerina.

Also, good job on the efficient and transparent council strategy dhelmise, loving the meta - broken shit and all.

Hey! This isn't trying to start an argument or even discussion, but just some Pokemon you might be interested in trying since that Mega Starmie set is frustrating you.

- I know you mentioned it but try this a bit differently, if you Thunder Wave the Starmie, it feels a lot worse at coming in to threaten your team. You can still consistently switch into its moves and heal up with Regenerator
- Very rewarding Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp, you can eometimes stay in on Pursuit threats and recover up. It checks Starmie as long as you don't let it get low.
- Physically defensively Garchomp doesn't get 2hkod by Starmie and punishes Flip Turn with Rocky Helmet. Stealth Rock + Garchomp chip damage is already almost half of Starmie's health. TankChomp is just very very good right now and the Starmie match up is a bonus
& - This might sound a little trolling but I've been having fun using these guys, Heal Bell and Wish are two of the most valuable moves in the metagame, and they get 3hkod by Starmie which is nice.

 

[Magcargo]

Gren (both forms) are kinda cancerous with all the mindless U-Turn / Flip Turn Spam shit. I think the struggle is partially my fault since I'm not good at setting up hazards in this metagame & I may not be running the right Helmet mons (I think Hisuian Goodra could be a decent Helmet user just to punish all these stupid Flip Turn mons), but it is just really annoying to deal with. The odd Low Kick / Gunk Shot Gren to beat Clefable / Hisuian Goodra is also annoying. That said, I wouldn't ban it. Mon is nice to keep a lot of other stupid shit in check with its set variety and I think is a "relatively" balanced offensive threat in this low power environment. Stuff like Starmie is kept in line pretty well by it, and Mega Gren's speed tier is nice to act as speed control for other cheap megas like Delphox and Emboar. Having a ghost resistance is also nice, and we have some cool counterplay develope like Colbur Berry Aegislash for Gren. That said, I think we don't need these 90 BP Flip Turns in the meta.

Ironically, the mon that is really good into these Flip Turn spammers (Volcanion) also feels impossible to deal with since it walls most of its counters. Vaporeon loses the 1v1 with Fire Spin + Taunt. Lowkey seems broken to me, but also could be needed given limited nature of meta, unsure.

Some suggestions:

Mega Evolution: Mega Greninja
New Ability: Torrent
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): N/A
Reasoning: A mon this fast and this strong, espicially in a metagame as limited as this, doesn't really need a special ability to be effective. Torrent lets this mon mostly do the same shit more or less, just without the insanely juiced up Flip Turns. Protean could be good as well, and may work as a better nerf to Nasty Plot sets, but I personally am fine with those existing, so we can let it slide, why not.


Mega Evolution: Mega Clefable
New Ability: Lunar Shield
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Upon Mega Evolution, Clefable will be automatically cured of status effects and can no longer be statused. Additionally, Clefable will reduce damage of the first oncoming attack by 50% (once per battle only).
Reasoning: Clefable is often associated with the moons and its Wing's give off a very magical vibe or feel. I personally am fine with Serene Grace and think Mega Clefable has a lot of benefits as is, but I would prefer to make Mega Clefable itself more of a standalone Pokemon rather than a Togekiss poser. Mega Evolving would allow Clefable to maintain its status immunity while still being vulnerable to Sand, Stealth Rocks, etc. and serve as a nice one-time check to miscellaneous threats with the initial damage reduction to attacks, whether it be Greninja, Hoopa-U, etc. The one-time nature of the damage reduction will make the timing of Mega Evolution particularly important to Clefable, giving it slightly more depth to when to Mega Evolve it.

 

[ViZar]

Servus. Small Update on the Damage Calc
- Brass Bond has been coded. Could still be bugged, but should work as intended
- I tested a bit more with Contrarian and it works as intended. However, if you notice some oddities, lmk
- Ange recovery has been added. However, the damage that Megas get from the ability hasn't been added. I will work on that

Also I will sets for a Legends Z-A format, based on sets I can find in the DC, here on the forums or in the darkest corner of my mind. I added one for Gallade-Mega since it got Sharpness.

*Small edit
I added sets for the Megas of Barbaracle, Chesnaught, Delphox, Dragalge and Eelektross for the time being. I made those sets up, based on what I think would be viable. They are not meant to be a representation of what is good.

Have a nice one, ciao servus

 

[lusaeon]

Hey Everyone, this is my first Smogon post and I felt tempted to make a tier list on the ZA OU Metagame based on my perception of the tier.

I have peaked ladder a bunch of Times with different teams and feel like I understand how good most Pokémon are, including the new megas.

The criteria for this list was that I would ONLY rank Pokémon i've seen or used. I tried ranking every Pokémon in an unbiased way regardless of if I use it a lot or not.

I Will talk a little bit about every Pokémon but I Will dedicate more time to Pokémon I feel like Hot takes.

Finally, Megas are ranked with different criteria from regular Pokémon, considering the opportunity cost of the mega slot, thats why you Will see a few megas below their base form.

Let's begin:

E tier are essentially all Pokemon I've always won against and never used.

In D tier there are some Pokémon i've faced or even used but had no sucess with or beat most of the time and they dont fill their roles consistently. Honorable mention to Mega Manectric which used to be really good before hidden Power ban but gets walled by every ground type now.

In C tier you can find Pokémon you Will see spontaneously, but not extremely Rarely, maybe 1 in 5 games for regular Pokémon and 1 in 20 games for the megas. Both Mega Zards are dissapointing in this generation, One is outclassed by Mega Pyroar and the other struggles to sweep in a tier filled with priority.

Although I do see Mega Chesnaught a lot I dont think it is very good and usually Win against it. Mega Audino is surprisingly annoying for some teams, Mega drill is very rare because usually sand can Run other megas + base drill, both Scolipedes are really good, they just struggle INTO Brave bird skarmory.

Mega Skarmory is scary some games with Weak armor set up + swords dance, but usually it thrives off surprise factor and doesnt work well in high ladder.

One thing I like a lot in this tier is how many Eeveelutions are viable. Both Umbreon and sylveon compete for a sloth on Stall/fat, with sylveon occasionally running specs. Vaporeon is good INTO greninja and non taunt volcanion tho it is a bit passive, Espeon shuts down most spikers like Skarmory and non Knock off Chesnaught while being a decent sweeper with cm and Jolteon is very good with choice scarf even after hidden Power ban imo.

Finally Blastoise is a decent bulky spinner pivot with flip Turn.

Moving on to B tier, your opponent Will usually have One of these most games, personally I like scarf Gardevoir, trace and healing wish are really helpful, Alakazam is a sand Staple and can Run both Lorb and Sash. Slowking is an underrated pivot that can sometimes match Better than slowking galar INTO volcanion and greninja.

A few of the megas here are disappointments compared to their base forms, especially dragonite and Scizor.

Aerodactyl is the main rocks lead, Meowstic is the main screens and spikes lead, while Slurpuff is the main sticky web lead. ( I forgot Slurpuff but hes B tier).

Krokodile is both a decent lead, amazing scarfer with Moxie and great alternative to Tyranitar on Stall as a pursuiter.

Mega Gallade is stupid strong and Mega Falinks is a decent sweeper.

Finally A tier, all the Pokémon here are amazing and Almost all teams have One.

Slowking Galar Almost made it to S tier, if not for the pursuit vulnerability, Aegislash I see a lot, it has many different sets and is very easy to fit on most offensive teams.

Hoopa and Volcanion have insane BST and are really powerful, versatile and bulky, The first can Run AV, Scarf, Specs, CB, Lorb, etc, and the second can Run Boots 4 Attack, Boots defog, Taunt Stallbreaker or Choice Specs.

Scizor and Dragonite are Staples on offense.
Zygarde always runs the Same set but is Braindead good.

Moving on to the megas, Malamar can be really scary with the right set. Superpower Knock Off Stored Power Rest is a crazy good set if your opponent doesnt have a dedicated counter.

Dragalge is a Staple on Sand and Fat, Walls Mega Gren and does wonders INTO Volcanion.

Mega Starmie is a crazy Mixed attacker, essentially has no counters if you have the right set and even its counters can be flip turned on.

Mega Sableye is a Staple on Stall and even balance teams Run it now that it has parting shot, its very underrated.

Mega Barbaracle, similarly to gallade is stupidly strong but it also has the option to Shell smash and sweep.

Mega Metagross has no counters and can break through everything if you spam t punch for long enough.

Mega Delphox also has no counters tho you need to have the right set. (Grass Knot vs Focus Blast)

Finally Mega Floette is probably the thing I hate facing the most, I feel like now that zygarde 50 is gone, it is the new Cancer in the meta and Will beat an unprepared team with sub cm protect.

Finally S tier, all teams in High Ladder have 2 or 3 of these Mons.

Starting with the defensive Pivots, Clefable and Slowbro are some of the best walls in the game.

The first can Run unaware, or Magic guard, wish port, hazards, cm, Knock off, T waves etc. These are glue for any non offensive team.

Skarmory is similar, tho it doesnt have a pivot move and is therefore found Mostly on bulkier teams unlike the other Two. It competes with Garchomp as the best spiker in the tier, tho it is definitively the best defogger.

Starmie and Excadrill are the only 2 really good rapid spinners. They both can be ran on pretty much any archetype, making them S tier easily.

The ONLY 2 megas I think are S tier are Mega Loppuny and Greninja, they are amazing speed Control and Revenge killers, tho they differ a bit on the teams they fit on.

Mega Loppuny is purely meant to be used as a Revenge killer. I dont think SD is good, the best set for me is CC, Return, Fake Out Mach Punch.

Greninja is more meant to be used as a slow progess maker tho it can also Revenge kill a lot of things.

It has insane movepool tho the most consistent set is flip Turn dark pulse water pulse water shuriken.

Base Greninja is the ONLY non mega, purely offensive Pokémon I think makes it to S tier, in part due to its versatility and unpredictability but also its reliability at doing solid damage.

Scarf, Life Orb Battle Bond, Specs, Nasty Plot Mixed, etc, with access to Gunk Shot and Low Kick it can break anything except Mega Dragalge.

Finally, I think Goodra H is S tier. It does amazing into most Greninja, Starmie Mega, Volcanion, Random Special attackers, while being powerful offensively, having Access to a very diverse movepool that can hit everything for super effective damage.


This was my tier list, I hope it wasnt very deranged from reality or biased in any way, I hope you find my opinion useful in your teambuilding.

 

[Power Panpour]

There is a lot of bullcrud in this meta that I can endure, and Greninja is not one of them. The thing has like 10 different sets it could be running and I don't know how to respond to Greninja until the Ability, moves and Item are revealed. It could be Choice Specs, it could be Life Orb, it could be running Nasty Plot. Sometimes I think I'm safe and then they reveal that it was Mega Greninja all along and then my Vest Glowking just dies.
When Greninja is in danger of being OHKOd, or heck even taking a minuscule amount of damage, it can just pivot out with U-Turn or Flip Turn since it is much faster than anything else. And Technician boosted Flip Turn HURTS. There are only 2 Water Absorb Pokémon in the game, and neither of them are fit to take on Greninja 1v1. The Dark Pulse flinch hax also don't help that much; it's not as bad as gen 4 Jirachi, but sometimes the opponent can just muscle through my walls if they get a lucky flinch.
This is frankly an unhealthy part of the metagame, and I hope that action is taken against both Greninja and Mega-Greninja.

 

[xfix]

Mega Evolution: Meganium
New Ability: Solar Power
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Already existing ability.
Reasoning: I feel like Solar Power fits Mega Meganium better than Flower Veil, especially considering the Pokedex entry.

This Pokémon can fire a tremendously powerful Solar Beam from its four flowers. Another name for this is Mega Sol Cannon.

It's clear that Mega Meganium is meant to be an offensive mega (it got 60 points in special attack, like, that's a lot), and Flower Veil feels oddly... defensive, so there is a bit of a mismatch. It also feels a tad weird, because Flower Veil feels like an ability meant to support a partner Grass-type Pokemon, rather than the Pokemon with the ability itself (which is why Game Freak gave it to Fairy-type Pokemon only).

With four flowers, it really feels like Mega Meganium should be able to gather a lot of power from sunlight to unleash destructive Solar Beams.

 

[G-Luke]

Mega Evolution: Meganium
New Ability: Solar Power
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): Already existing ability.
Reasoning: I feel like Solar Power fits Mega Meganium better than Flower Veil, especially considering the Pokedex entry.

It's clear that Mega Meganium is meant to be an offensive mega (it got 60 points in special attack, like, that's a lot), and Flower Veil feels oddly... defensive, so there is a bit of a mismatch. It also feels a tad weird, because Flower Veil feels like an ability meant to support a partner Grass-type Pokemon, rather than the Pokemon with the ability itself (which is why Game Freak gave it to Fairy-type Pokemon only).

With four flowers, it really feels like Mega Meganium should be able to gather a lot of power from sunlight to pop 0 unleash destructive Solar Beams.

No Heat Rock, and no non Mega Sun setters.

This is a dead slot on a Pokémon screaming for an ability.

 

[Scepticskep]

Wanted to submit my idea for a Chandelure buff since it's losing Flash Fire.

Mega Evolution: Mega Chandelure
New Ability: Soul Engine
Ability Description (if it doesn't currently exist): When the Pokémon enters a battle, its Speed stat is boosted 10% for each of the allies in its party that have already been defeated.
Reasoning: Mega Chandelure's speed stat is currently the main thing that brings it down significantly in a tier where speed is so pivotal. Its base form negates this via access to Scarf, making it a strong revenge killer. But Mega Chandelure can't hold an item, and to be a good mega evolution, its bonuses have to make up for its lack of item. So, inspired by Supreme Overlord, I made an ability that improves Mega Chandelure's speed issue and makes it a powerful late game sweeper.
This ability would enable Chandelure to outspeed many opponents, paired with its gargantuan special attack and excellent coverage. It's not broken, of course: First off, you won't have the immediate pressure of a mega until a couple of your pokemon die, while many other megas start strong off the gate. Second, it can still be outsped by other strong setup mons like Battle Bond boosted Mega Gren or hit with priority moves like Aqua Jet.

 

[bring it on]

Played a bit of this format and its cool even if the small dex, but at one point it gets repetitive greninja flip turn galar slowking chilly reception and clefable teleport, but the format is cool with all these new megas. With that being said dhelmise sorry for the ping but is there any way we can get this same format for doubles. As a vgc player would be cool to play it in doubles, many vgc players who wants to play it are not able to have fun due to not much experience with singles. Also I would later want to suggest few abilities though I think the time for change is now done.

Thanks for this amazingly cool format will play more and get back here.