• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed

  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
SwordIsBored said:
Victreebel-Mega has a buffed Corrosion that lets it hit Steel-types already.
Click to expand...
yeah i just realized that when writing it, but it was already too late, so that was my bad ....so it probably would go either then super effective or hit more types with neutral damage then... it probably lean more to the second one then... so it probably be more like this

:victreebel: Victreebel-Mega:
Ability: Acidic
Ability Description: Corrosion but Now also hits Ground and Rock for Neutral damage.

Reasoning: Fits the Description, and allows Victreebel to deal with threats better that have these Types. Without it being overbearing.
 
Last edited:
1761334702327.png

I posted this on the Discord a bit back but I've refined it since then, here's what I think to be a pretty solid tier list from a Council Member. (The B tier looks massive, I know I don't know why I didn't add more tiers before adding the mons. It is ordered within ranks though.)
 
:greninja: -- Master of all Trades -- :greninja:

Wanted to explore Greninja's infinite range of options. Italicized options are primarily useful on Mega Greninja with its Technician

Nasty Plot is probably the quintessential Greninja move (unless you run Specs or Scarf which are both viable). This turns you into a death machine. If you're Mega, you're now smashing everything with Dragapult speed, if you're Bond, they can't deny your +1 Spa/+1 Spe for long. Only very, very strong special walls like Mega Floette can safely stop a +2 Greninja -- that or just clicking Extreme Speed with 2 separate mons
:greninja:
Hydro Pump/Surf/Water Pulse/Scald: basic primary STAB option. At +2, your water moves will oneshot most neutral targets.
With Pump vs. Surf/Water Pulse (which has 20% confuse chance), it's the usual deal: some bulkier mons are a kill/roll with Pump but a roll/not even a kill with Surf. For example a bulky Zygarde:
+2 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 382-450 (90.9 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 313-369 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:greninja:
Water Shuriken: can be used as in addition to the water STAB, or instead of it. The main issue with using it as the main water STAB is it's not reliable as a primary STAB, especially outside of mega (where it's a 30-75 power move, average 46.5, compared to 90 for Surf).
But as a priority move, well a 46.5 BP priority move that can be boosted by Technician is fearsome, and if you roll well and get 4 or 5 hits you can even hit 90 or 112.5 BP, which is sufficient to kill most sweepers if they've been chipped.

252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade-Mega: 165-200 (59.5 - 72.2%)
Notably Water Shuriken also griefs Mega Barb, after a Shell Smash and/or Close Combats it usually is forced out or killed by Shuriken
:greninja:
Dark Pulse/HP Dark: Dark STAB. Both are good options in Mega, the flinch chance of Dark Pulse gives you a shot at bullshitting your way through a check, and although it precludes other Hidden Powers, HP Dark is more powerful, for example giving you a roll against targets that would otherwise live:
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Dark vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 360-426 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dark power is useful against Aegislash, Espeon, MFroslass, Gengar, Gourgeist, Meowstic, Megagross (HP Dark is a roll to OHKO), Mega Star, Slowbro, and Glowking, among others, and it hits many Water resists neutrally too
:greninja:
Ice Beam/Icy Wind: Ice Beam is used to OHKO Zygarde and the rare Grachomp, devastate Dragonite (and if someone is running the mega they get OHKOd too), and as coverage to hit various odds and ends: notably Chesnaught and Mega Meganium (who resist both water and dark), plus some of the mons who resist water (Grasses, other than the rare Abomasnow, and Dragons not named Hoodra or ZardX).

Icy Wind is for megas only, and although I've never seen it it looks good in practice. It's a bit weaker and has 5% miss chance, but in exchange you can slow down a sweeper you can't OHKO so that it can be taken down by something else.
On the lower power: sometimes it could be an issue
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 420-496 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 384-452 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
:greninja:
alternatively: Sludge Wave can be used to take on those who would dare try to check Greninja. Clefable, Floette, Mega Audino, and Chesnaught are hit for big damage, and Meganiums are wiped from existence.
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- Greninja demands SpDef clef, but everyone else demands physdef, it's lose/lose
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Floette-Eternal: 128-152 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also if you run non-mega sets or are in Protean pre-mega, you can do some heinous things. I used to run Specs Protean and had the pleasure of oneshotting a Clef:
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 432-510 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Sludge Bomb is not used because it completely blanks into Chesnaught. Also, the purpose of the Poison coverage move is the raw power to put down fairies, although if you are lucky enough to get a poison it would be worth)
:greninja:
Flip Turn/U-Turn are good moves. U-Turn is for Protean, you can do some serious damage to Slowbros and Meowstics while pivoting, while Flip Turn when boosted by Technician on 125 base Atk from MGren lets you leave any bad matchup at will.
4 Atk Technician Greninja-Mega Flip Turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 133-157 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:greninja:
Hidden Power Electric/HP Grass/Grass Knot: 3 moves useful mostly for the Mega (Technician HP is 90 BP), which help you with waters. This means Vaporeon, rival Greninjas (both 60 BP = 90 BP grass knot), Blastoise and Sharpedo (80 BP), Megasharp (100 BP), and MGyara (who walls you, and even 120 BP Grass Knot is only a 2HKO).
(And although you should switch out of Mega Gatr, if you have to fight then Grass Knot is the best reliable option you have: 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr-Mega: 119-140 (38.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)

HP Elecrtic is IMO better, you can surprise OHKO a Gyarados switching in (or a fake mega gyarados), and if a Volcanion fights you it will regret it.
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 218-258 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You also 2HKO Skarm, MegaLucha, and Mega Pinsir (but you 2HKO them all anyways, just with a little less damage)

HP Grass's advantage over Electric is in the Barbaracle mindgame: when Mega Barb decides to not mega to live Surf/Hydro Pump, you can oneshot it with HP Grass
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 452-536 (129.8 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And if it does mega, you still cope into some damage (Surf doesn't kill Megabarb either, only Pump does)
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle-Mega: 212-250 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

One rarely mentioned advantage of Hidden Power is that you can only infer what type it is, which is an advantage over moves like Grass Knot. They don't know if it's HP Dark or HP Electric until they look in the box (me when secret HP Fighting)
:greninja:
Psyshock is an option, I haven't used it before, but it might be able to force past special walls (especially Mega Dragalge who is Psychic-weak)
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Eternal: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 187-222 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And it hits Mega Lopunny and Venusaur
:greninja:
Mud Shot is funny, it lets you do things like troll MegaMetagross if you can't oneshot it, by lowering its speed to revengekill territory. Also it hits Hoodra, but only for pathetic damage because it's Hoodra:
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Mud Shot vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 86-102 (23.6 - 28%) -- 83.3% chance to 4HKO
:greninja:
Oh but Greninja can also run mixed, where it has Swords Dance and Low Kick (kills Hoodra) and Gunk Shot and Liquid and UTurn/Technican boost Flip Turn, Power-Up Punch, Shadow Sneak and Rock Tomb and Aerial Ace and Feint Attack and Trailblaze. But the post would be too long
 
OK I am back

Here is a vote to remove Hidden Power from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374475357720576

Here is a vote to remove Toxic from everyone that doesn't learn it in PLZA: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374515715182602

Here is a vote to remove Pursuit from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374553883349155

Here's a link to the discord if you'd like to vote but aren't in it: https://discord.com/invite/GvFzF6j4Yc
 
dhelmise said:
OK I am back

Here is a vote to remove Hidden Power from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374475357720576

Here is a vote to remove Toxic from everyone that doesn't learn it in PLZA: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374515715182602

Here is a vote to remove Pursuit from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374553883349155

Here's a link to the discord if you'd like to vote but aren't in it: https://discord.com/invite/GvFzF6j4Yc
Click to expand...
I'm split because I like Pursuit but not so much Toxic. However, this seems kind of arbitrary. We should either use National Dex movesets or just PLZA+SS+SV movesets. Correct me if I'm wrong and there is precedent for it, but banning tens of pokemon from using Toxic but not others, while also keeping Pursuit in the game doesn't seem like it resembles any sort of tiering/banning policy that we've seen so far from Smogon.
 
It’s very weird to specifically want to remove Hidden Power and Pursuit and also limit Toxic’s distribution. I don’t get it entirely since this a psuedo NatDex Petmod thing and we’re just gonna decide to remove moves while keeping other moves?
This is obviously a ploy by Mega Frosloss and Mega Delphox being pursuit weak and Mega Greninja having Technician Hidden Power to abuse.
 
Prowlermon said:
And yeah, I think stamina or defiant could be better in Mlucha

And an ability that values the psychic side of Malamar could be good, like psyche terrain, or something like that, since it is part of the lore, but keeping contrary would also be acceptable (even if not pokemon good enough)

Pyroar also could be get the Competitive ability, because of not just be a special attacker mon, but lions are territorialists animals in its territory, and could also have Flame body, Since your dex talks about the heat your body produces to protect yourself and your a,llies

Dnite I think could have the Aerilate or sumn Gale Wings type shit, or even Sheer Force, because of the lore of Dragonite and the characteristics of Dragonair as well

Chesnaught both Bulletproof and Rough Skin makes sense, even Battle Armor, because it tells how resistant the chesnaught's armor is and the coat is thick enough to tank hits
Click to expand...
One of the things I have thinking is ability, and one mon bring it to my head is Mega Chanderlure

And I have suggestions for ability:

Berserk

- I thought of this because I looked at the pokedex part, and I see this:

"One of its eyes is a window linking our world with the afterlife. This Pokémon draws in hatred and converts it into power."

-The part about hatred being converted into power makes sense with Berserk's ability, and since Chanderlure is an offensive Pokémon on the special side, it could work, and have enough bulk to be able to use it.

Cursed Body

-Its a ghost type, who has access to see the afterlife with his eye, and has the issue of using the hatred of possible souls as a form of power, and it may perhaps be in a way that curses the pokemon

Flame Body

-Ok, this is maybe lame but could make sense because the fire on that Mon is eternal according to the pokedex itself before mega evolution, could be better than Flash Fire (even if they work on the same logic)

Levitate

-It's a flying ceiling light.

Mind's Eye

-Ok, this is interesting

-Mind's Eye has as much to do with the lore as the Ursalina design because of the story of the legend of the God Izanagi and also the color spectrum to see the bloody moon

-This can be the case in both the physical world and the spiritual world, as the chanderlure can see both.

Infiltrator

-He already has it in pre mega evolution, but it still makes sense in his dex

Shadow Shield

-Even though it's not a dark type, it could be good in mega chanderlure, because there's already so much speculation about another ability that includes shadow, which is Shadow Tag, but instead of using ghosts to trap the opponent in shadow form, it could strengthen the bulk as a way to strengthen Mlure

Perish Body

-I think this would be the least likely, as it is also quite overkill, but it would be that thing of using the hatred of the souls to be able to knock out the pokemon

Aftermath

-Another one that would be pretty meh but in a bad way, but that also makes sense within the Pokemon dex
 
Got top 9 with a goofy Falinks+Heliolisk+Scrafty team, going to try and push higher later but wanted to make this post now because HP vote is going to end soon:

1. Make Falinks multi-hits not trigger additional effects (flame body rough skin rocky helmet)
If Falinks multi-hits don't trigger multiple times (iron head) then it seems weird for them to count towards other chip/effects. Also doesn't really make a lot of sense "lore wise" if the little guys getting hit damages the main big guy? (if that makes any sense lol)

From playing with Falinks though, it just makes your team options a lot more limited and annoying to play with, so you have to play more passively to knock off helmets/remove threats, which Falinks already needs help from its teammates to chip certain guys. Also Falinks is already prone to getting chipped a ton, from hazards to switching in/clicking no retreat so again, just makes your team options more limited (feels mandatory that you need wish/heal bell/webs)

And if removed Falinks will obviously still be manageable, still misses lots of KOs still hard to setup also status/whirlwind/dragon tail exists and can get revenge killed by the million different priority users in this tier/scarfers which is more apparent when you have to click CC to KO certain guys

2. Keep Hidden Power
I'm 99% sure this isn't being removed because its too good; most mons that use this are either not the greatest or is technician greninja (can we give it a not-so-broken ability like illusion pls :sob:). This tier is already hard to check the dozens of megas that can easily mow through your team, so losing another tool to counteract them will make this tier even more centralized. I'm assuming the mons that will be hit the hardest are Electrics (manectric jolt heliolisk maybe eelektross) but theres definitely some other niche spatkers that will probably fall off too

I'm assuming that we're removing HP to keep in-line with modern movesets? Which would make sense if we weren't going to leave Pursuit in (unless we dont actually follow through the vote) so as with most people it just seems strange to me to even vote on it in the first place. Right now it really does feel unclear in what direction this tier wants to go in, so this just seems very random

unshoutout SwordIsBored for being council shoutout SwordIsBored for losing to me & those 1400 dragalge players u guys are cool
1761365430807.png

no look at gxe
https://pokepast.es/14674ecb617f834e
not the greatest team LOL extremely weak to fires, but basic idea is:
- want rapid spin so that falinks doesnt get chipped+defog proccing defiant, exca stoise or avalugg all work here but exca is nice to have rocks+spin and threatening ghosts better but lugg good for completely walling most phys guys and stoise for flip+toxic
-scrafty is wack but works well in the meta rn, we have 2 steels to switch into fairy moves but the switchins for falinks are also usually the same switchins for scraft so you can knock helmet/encore setup/pivot. also intim good for mmeta gallade etc
-heliolisk the goat, originally had uturn but you pressure all grounds with surf+hp ice. you can also go focus blast but gl w that! av for gren mostly as you dont want clef to do all the heavy lifting, also better jolteon (my goat can sometimes wall aegi LOL)
-team is pretty passive so lo aegi helps, can revenge kill lots of guys with some chip and still being able to pressure guys like skarm
-clef wish passes and heals status which is basically everywhere lol, synergizes well with steels like aegi who are prone to getting worn down. also crucial so that falinks isnt instantly out of commission when its burned. can also go teleport/magic guard but unaware can wall lots of spatkers and you dont have to worry abt status due to aroma
-exca and falinks are pretty self-explanatory, fimp falinks is also goated but u need iron head for fairies :(
-other guys used are vap, chomp lugg and stoise

overall falinks rn is ass when you can use the other broken megas (floette gren meta gallade etc etc) so s/o everyone using bad megas over the cringe ones
 
Mega Skarmory
Ability: Good As Gold
Other megas like dnite have exclusive abilities like Soul Heart, and mega Skarmory is literally gold. Gives it a more defensive bearing, which makes sense considering it’s SpDef buff as well as preventing things like encore into SD, Will-O, and Twave from shutting it down.
 
:sv/malamar:
Mega Malamar
Ability: Iron Fistening
Effect: On switchin, this Pokemon adds one Fishing Token to its side. This has no inherent effect, but other mega custom abilities be made to synergize with it for something powerful.
 
Since we're doing custom abilities...

Mega Malamar
Ability: Neural Inversion
Effect: When the Pokémon enters battle, it copies the opponent’s stat changes before inverting all of the opponent’s stat changes.

I feel the tier needs better deterrents against sweepers, and this could be fulfilled by Mega Malamar. This retains flavour while giving it a defined niche as an anti-setup wallbreaker. If this is too powerful, just keep the latter part of the ability.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top