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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed

  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
SwordIsBored said:
Victreebel-Mega has a buffed Corrosion that lets it hit Steel-types already.
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yeah i just realized that when writing it, but it was already too late, so that was my bad ....so it probably would go either then super effective or hit more types with neutral damage then... it probably lean more to the second one then... so it probably be more like this

:victreebel: Victreebel-Mega:
Ability: Acidic
Ability Description: Corrosion but Now also hits Ground and Rock for Neutral damage.

Reasoning: Fits the Description, and allows Victreebel to deal with threats better that have these Types. Without it being overbearing.
 
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I posted this on the Discord a bit back but I've refined it since then, here's what I think to be a pretty solid tier list from a Council Member. (The B tier looks massive, I know I don't know why I didn't add more tiers before adding the mons. It is ordered within ranks though.)
 
:greninja: -- Master of all Trades -- :greninja:

Wanted to explore Greninja's infinite range of options. Italicized options are primarily useful on Mega Greninja with its Technician

Nasty Plot is probably the quintessential Greninja move (unless you run Specs or Scarf which are both viable). This turns you into a death machine. If you're Mega, you're now smashing everything with Dragapult speed, if you're Bond, they can't deny your +1 Spa/+1 Spe for long. Only very, very strong special walls like Mega Floette can safely stop a +2 Greninja -- that or just clicking Extreme Speed with 2 separate mons
:greninja:
Hydro Pump/Surf/Water Pulse/Scald: basic primary STAB option. At +2, your water moves will oneshot most neutral targets.
With Pump vs. Surf/Water Pulse (which has 20% confuse chance), it's the usual deal: some bulkier mons are a kill/roll with Pump but a roll/not even a kill with Surf. For example a bulky Zygarde:
+2 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 382-450 (90.9 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 313-369 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
:greninja:
Water Shuriken: can be used as in addition to the water STAB, or instead of it. The main issue with using it as the main water STAB is it's not reliable as a primary STAB, especially outside of mega (where it's a 30-75 power move, average 46.5, compared to 90 for Surf).
But as a priority move, well a 46.5 BP priority move that can be boosted by Technician is fearsome, and if you roll well and get 4 or 5 hits you can even hit 90 or 112.5 BP, which is sufficient to kill most sweepers if they've been chipped.

252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Water Shuriken (15 BP) (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade-Mega: 165-200 (59.5 - 72.2%)
Notably Water Shuriken also griefs Mega Barb, after a Shell Smash and/or Close Combats it usually is forced out or killed by Shuriken
:greninja:
Dark Pulse/HP Dark: Dark STAB. Both are good options in Mega, the flinch chance of Dark Pulse gives you a shot at bullshitting your way through a check, and although it precludes other Hidden Powers, HP Dark is more powerful, for example giving you a roll against targets that would otherwise live:
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Dark vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 360-426 (91.3 - 108.1%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Dark power is useful against Aegislash, Espeon, MFroslass, Gengar, Gourgeist, Meowstic, Megagross (HP Dark is a roll to OHKO), Mega Star, Slowbro, and Glowking, among others, and it hits many Water resists neutrally too
:greninja:
Ice Beam/Icy Wind: Ice Beam is used to OHKO Zygarde and the rare Grachomp, devastate Dragonite (and if someone is running the mega they get OHKOd too), and as coverage to hit various odds and ends: notably Chesnaught and Mega Meganium (who resist both water and dark), plus some of the mons who resist water (Grasses, other than the rare Abomasnow, and Dragons not named Hoodra or ZardX).

Icy Wind is for megas only, and although I've never seen it it looks good in practice. It's a bit weaker and has 5% miss chance, but in exchange you can slow down a sweeper you can't OHKO so that it can be taken down by something else.
On the lower power: sometimes it could be an issue
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 420-496 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 384-452 (91.4 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
:greninja:
alternatively: Sludge Wave can be used to take on those who would dare try to check Greninja. Clefable, Floette, Mega Audino, and Chesnaught are hit for big damage, and Meganiums are wiped from existence.
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -- Greninja demands SpDef clef, but everyone else demands physdef, it's lose/lose
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Floette-Eternal: 128-152 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also if you run non-mega sets or are in Protean pre-mega, you can do some heinous things. I used to run Specs Protean and had the pleasure of oneshotting a Clef:
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 432-510 (109.6 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Sludge Bomb is not used because it completely blanks into Chesnaught. Also, the purpose of the Poison coverage move is the raw power to put down fairies, although if you are lucky enough to get a poison it would be worth)
:greninja:
Flip Turn/U-Turn are good moves. U-Turn is for Protean, you can do some serious damage to Slowbros and Meowstics while pivoting, while Flip Turn when boosted by Technician on 125 base Atk from MGren lets you leave any bad matchup at will.
4 Atk Technician Greninja-Mega Flip Turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 133-157 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
:greninja:
Hidden Power Electric/HP Grass/Grass Knot: 3 moves useful mostly for the Mega (Technician HP is 90 BP), which help you with waters. This means Vaporeon, rival Greninjas (both 60 BP = 90 BP grass knot), Blastoise and Sharpedo (80 BP), Megasharp (100 BP), and MGyara (who walls you, and even 120 BP Grass Knot is only a 2HKO).
(And although you should switch out of Mega Gatr, if you have to fight then Grass Knot is the best reliable option you have: 252 SpA Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr-Mega: 119-140 (38.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO)

HP Elecrtic is IMO better, you can surprise OHKO a Gyarados switching in (or a fake mega gyarados), and if a Volcanion fights you it will regret it.
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Volcanion: 218-258 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You also 2HKO Skarm, MegaLucha, and Mega Pinsir (but you 2HKO them all anyways, just with a little less damage)

HP Grass's advantage over Electric is in the Barbaracle mindgame: when Mega Barb decides to not mega to live Surf/Hydro Pump, you can oneshot it with HP Grass
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 452-536 (129.8 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And if it does mega, you still cope into some damage (Surf doesn't kill Megabarb either, only Pump does)
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle-Mega: 212-250 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

One rarely mentioned advantage of Hidden Power is that you can only infer what type it is, which is an advantage over moves like Grass Knot. They don't know if it's HP Dark or HP Electric until they look in the box (me when secret HP Fighting)
:greninja:
Psyshock is an option, I haven't used it before, but it might be able to force past special walls (especially Mega Dragalge who is Psychic-weak)
252 SpA Greninja-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Eternal: 124-146 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 187-222 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And it hits Mega Lopunny and Venusaur
:greninja:
Mud Shot is funny, it lets you do things like troll MegaMetagross if you can't oneshot it, by lowering its speed to revengekill territory. Also it hits Hoodra, but only for pathetic damage because it's Hoodra:
252 SpA Technician Greninja-Mega Mud Shot vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 86-102 (23.6 - 28%) -- 83.3% chance to 4HKO
:greninja:
Oh but Greninja can also run mixed, where it has Swords Dance and Low Kick (kills Hoodra) and Gunk Shot and Liquid and UTurn/Technican boost Flip Turn, Power-Up Punch, Shadow Sneak and Rock Tomb and Aerial Ace and Feint Attack and Trailblaze. But the post would be too long
 
OK I am back

Here is a vote to remove Hidden Power from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374475357720576

Here is a vote to remove Toxic from everyone that doesn't learn it in PLZA: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374515715182602

Here is a vote to remove Pursuit from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374553883349155

Here's a link to the discord if you'd like to vote but aren't in it: https://discord.com/invite/GvFzF6j4Yc
 
dhelmise said:
OK I am back

Here is a vote to remove Hidden Power from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374475357720576

Here is a vote to remove Toxic from everyone that doesn't learn it in PLZA: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374515715182602

Here is a vote to remove Pursuit from everyone: https://discord.com/channels/1430376546593411195/1430376614440468480/1431374553883349155

Here's a link to the discord if you'd like to vote but aren't in it: https://discord.com/invite/GvFzF6j4Yc
Click to expand...
I'm split because I like Pursuit but not so much Toxic. However, this seems kind of arbitrary. We should either use National Dex movesets or just PLZA+SS+SV movesets. Correct me if I'm wrong and there is precedent for it, but banning tens of pokemon from using Toxic but not others, while also keeping Pursuit in the game doesn't seem like it resembles any sort of tiering/banning policy that we've seen so far from Smogon.
 
It’s very weird to specifically want to remove Hidden Power and Pursuit and also limit Toxic’s distribution. I don’t get it entirely since this a psuedo NatDex Petmod thing and we’re just gonna decide to remove moves while keeping other moves?
This is obviously a ploy by Mega Frosloss and Mega Delphox being pursuit weak and Mega Greninja having Technician Hidden Power to abuse.
 
Prowlermon said:
And yeah, I think stamina or defiant could be better in Mlucha

And an ability that values the psychic side of Malamar could be good, like psyche terrain, or something like that, since it is part of the lore, but keeping contrary would also be acceptable (even if not pokemon good enough)

Pyroar also could be get the Competitive ability, because of not just be a special attacker mon, but lions are territorialists animals in its territory, and could also have Flame body, Since your dex talks about the heat your body produces to protect yourself and your a,llies

Dnite I think could have the Aerilate or sumn Gale Wings type shit, or even Sheer Force, because of the lore of Dragonite and the characteristics of Dragonair as well

Chesnaught both Bulletproof and Rough Skin makes sense, even Battle Armor, because it tells how resistant the chesnaught's armor is and the coat is thick enough to tank hits
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One of the things I have thinking is ability, and one mon bring it to my head is Mega Chanderlure

And I have suggestions for ability:

Berserk

- I thought of this because I looked at the pokedex part, and I see this:

"One of its eyes is a window linking our world with the afterlife. This Pokémon draws in hatred and converts it into power."

-The part about hatred being converted into power makes sense with Berserk's ability, and since Chanderlure is an offensive Pokémon on the special side, it could work, and have enough bulk to be able to use it.

Cursed Body

-Its a ghost type, who has access to see the afterlife with his eye, and has the issue of using the hatred of possible souls as a form of power, and it may perhaps be in a way that curses the pokemon

Flame Body

-Ok, this is maybe lame but could make sense because the fire on that Mon is eternal according to the pokedex itself before mega evolution, could be better than Flash Fire (even if they work on the same logic)

Levitate

-It's a flying ceiling light.

Mind's Eye

-Ok, this is interesting

-Mind's Eye has as much to do with the lore as the Ursalina design because of the story of the legend of the God Izanagi and also the color spectrum to see the bloody moon

-This can be the case in both the physical world and the spiritual world, as the chanderlure can see both.

Infiltrator

-He already has it in pre mega evolution, but it still makes sense in his dex

Shadow Shield

-Even though it's not a dark type, it could be good in mega chanderlure, because there's already so much speculation about another ability that includes shadow, which is Shadow Tag, but instead of using ghosts to trap the opponent in shadow form, it could strengthen the bulk as a way to strengthen Mlure

Perish Body

-I think this would be the least likely, as it is also quite overkill, but it would be that thing of using the hatred of the souls to be able to knock out the pokemon

Aftermath

-Another one that would be pretty meh but in a bad way, but that also makes sense within the Pokemon dex
 
Got top 9 with a goofy Falinks+Heliolisk+Scrafty team, going to try and push higher later but wanted to make this post now because HP vote is going to end soon:

1. Make Falinks multi-hits not trigger additional effects (flame body rough skin rocky helmet)
If Falinks multi-hits don't trigger multiple times (iron head) then it seems weird for them to count towards other chip/effects. Also doesn't really make a lot of sense "lore wise" if the little guys getting hit damages the main big guy? (if that makes any sense lol)

From playing with Falinks though, it just makes your team options a lot more limited and annoying to play with, so you have to play more passively to knock off helmets/remove threats, which Falinks already needs help from its teammates to chip certain guys. Also Falinks is already prone to getting chipped a ton, from hazards to switching in/clicking no retreat so again, just makes your team options more limited (feels mandatory that you need wish/heal bell/webs)

And if removed Falinks will obviously still be manageable, still misses lots of KOs still hard to setup also status/whirlwind/dragon tail exists and can get revenge killed by the million different priority users in this tier/scarfers which is more apparent when you have to click CC to KO certain guys

2. Keep Hidden Power
I'm 99% sure this isn't being removed because its too good; most mons that use this are either not the greatest or is technician greninja (can we give it a not-so-broken ability like illusion pls :sob:). This tier is already hard to check the dozens of megas that can easily mow through your team, so losing another tool to counteract them will make this tier even more centralized. I'm assuming the mons that will be hit the hardest are Electrics (manectric jolt heliolisk maybe eelektross) but theres definitely some other niche spatkers that will probably fall off too

I'm assuming that we're removing HP to keep in-line with modern movesets? Which would make sense if we weren't going to leave Pursuit in (unless we dont actually follow through the vote) so as with most people it just seems strange to me to even vote on it in the first place. Right now it really does feel unclear in what direction this tier wants to go in, so this just seems very random

unshoutout SwordIsBored for being council shoutout SwordIsBored for losing to me & those 1400 dragalge players u guys are cool
1761365430807.png

no look at gxe
https://pokepast.es/14674ecb617f834e
not the greatest team LOL extremely weak to fires, but basic idea is:
- want rapid spin so that falinks doesnt get chipped+defog proccing defiant, exca stoise or avalugg all work here but exca is nice to have rocks+spin and threatening ghosts better but lugg good for completely walling most phys guys and stoise for flip+toxic
-scrafty is wack but works well in the meta rn, we have 2 steels to switch into fairy moves but the switchins for falinks are also usually the same switchins for scraft so you can knock helmet/encore setup/pivot. also intim good for mmeta gallade etc
-heliolisk the goat, originally had uturn but you pressure all grounds with surf+hp ice. you can also go focus blast but gl w that! av for gren mostly as you dont want clef to do all the heavy lifting, also better jolteon (my goat can sometimes wall aegi LOL)
-team is pretty passive so lo aegi helps, can revenge kill lots of guys with some chip and still being able to pressure guys like skarm
-clef wish passes and heals status which is basically everywhere lol, synergizes well with steels like aegi who are prone to getting worn down. also crucial so that falinks isnt instantly out of commission when its burned. can also go teleport/magic guard but unaware can wall lots of spatkers and you dont have to worry abt status due to aroma
-exca and falinks are pretty self-explanatory, fimp falinks is also goated but u need iron head for fairies :(
-other guys used are vap, chomp lugg and stoise

overall falinks rn is ass when you can use the other broken megas (floette gren meta gallade etc etc) so s/o everyone using bad megas over the cringe ones
 
Since we're doing custom abilities...

Mega Malamar
Ability: Neural Inversion
Effect: When the Pokémon enters battle, it copies the opponent’s stat changes before inverting all of the opponent’s stat changes.

I feel the tier needs better deterrents against sweepers, and this could be fulfilled by Mega Malamar. This retains flavour while giving it a defined niche as an anti-setup wallbreaker. If this is too powerful, just keep the latter part of the ability.
 
There are quite a few contentious Pokemon, namely megas, so here I'll try to give my thoughts on each one, from someone who thought Zygarde-50% was balanced.

Mega-Metagross :Metagross-Mega:
I think this is clearly the dumbest Pokemon in the metagame, a lot of the Pokemon on this list have shaky answers but Metagross straight up has zero. Furthermore, Metagross's exceptional bulk and typing mean that it finds entry points on the entire tier. You cant play proactively enough to punish a Mega-Meta for switchng in, because frankly, this mon does not care about Thunder Wave at all and is too fat for the rest. I dont believe a single Pokemon covers Heavy Slam + Knock Off + Thunder Punch, so you can easily run Agility, Substitute, Power Up Punch, Pursuit, and such in your last slot. Apparently people got as desperate as using Physdef Excadrill which can still only switch in ONCE, Sub exploits how this mon has 0 defensive checks and can ruin you for trying to sac, Agility 6-0s hyper offense since they got no bulk too. If you thought dealing with ths was bad enough, try and face Metagross + Healing Wish, effectively giving it a second life to go on a murder spree. I genuinely dont understand how anyone thinks this is okay.

Greninja :Greninja:
I've seen complaints on both just Mega Greninja. Generally the best ways I've found for dealing with it are using Mega Audino, Goodra-H, and Colbur Slowking. I know Vaporeon and Mega Gyarados are amazing at it, and things like AV Hoopa-U and Volcanion can act as effective short-term checks best paired with Wish support. Mega Floette and Specially Defensive Clefable never get 2hkod by Sludge Wave, but have to watch out for those Flip Turns. Greninja can tech to overwhelm these and sacifice its overall effectiveness, such as running Gunk Shot or U-turn, but I think this is only justifiable on Mega Greninja. 125 vs 95 is a big difference in attack which helps it feel more manageable. Checking it offensively can be done through Choice Band Zygarde (yes, 10% is still very much a good Pokemon), Choice Scarf Grass Knot Greninja, Mach Punch Mega Lopunny, and generally the bulky mons that can kill it back. Im undecided on if Mega Greninja is currently banworthy, Id like to see the meta in a sate where it isnt being suffocated by Metagross. However, I'm pretty confident Base Greninja is fine as it is, and enjoy its impact on the tier, as a good progress maker and potentially a very consisent revenge killer.

Mega-Gallade :Gallade-Mega:
This is the Pokemon I really don't get complaining about, it's difficult to wall yes, but unlike Mega-Metagross, it's frail and has a poor defensive typing so it has a very hard time coming in. It 2hkos everything, ohkos everything if its at +2, but never actually ohkos anything immidietly. This means that you can't bring it onto many of the tier's defensive staples, the moment this guy gets Twaved its cooked. It doesn't come in enough times in a game to be a problem defensively, and there are Pokemon like Sableye, Dragonite, and Gyarados that can check it if youre a desperate slow paced team. I personally think Substitute Mega Gallade is the best because it helps it more consistently trade damage, but even then, the chip from hazards and helmet can unfavorably stack up. I would still say its absolutely a top 5 mega, I just don't think its broken at all, you have to outplay your checks to get by them.

Mega-Starmie :Starmie:
Another wallbreaker, who would've thought! I personally think Starmie has an issue of 4mss, if its not Rapid Spin then it has to find multiple entry points which isn't the easiest thing to do, if its not Thunderbolt it gets screwed by Slowbro and Skarmory, if its not Ice Beam it does nothing to Gourgeist, and if it's not Flip Turn it can feel like a momentum sink, where even if you do get a kill, you let Greninja in for free and might lose a mon yourself. I will say, a very underrated Pokemon right now is Slowking. I think its equally as good as Slowbro with the Zygarde ban, with the extra SpD it can eat all of Starmie's moves, you could also switch it up and run Specially Defensive Slowbro, who achieves the same thing but lures Starmie into Thunderbolting way easier. On the off chance Base Greninja gets banned, Starmie would get a lot better imo, but as of right now I think of its wallbreaking as nothing special and ppl just not yet adapted to it. Physically defensive Umbreon, Leafeon, and Mega Scizor are more underexplored hard checks for the fat teams that need longterm answers. Mega Gyarados and Mega Feraligatr can be emergency checks for more offensive scenarios too. I think Starmie is currently balanced and encourages the meta to develop beyond a basic Slowbro + Clefable defensive core.

Now some of you might be reading these and think they're a little specific, maybe not enough checks, but keep in mind how weak the ZA dex is. Brokens or not, There are less than 20 good non-mega Pokemon, and one of them is Gourgeist. I think its okay for the metagame to be a bit more centralised than your average OU, especially if it means we can keep quirks that make ZA OU, ZA OU. The only format where these new megas can be used, and the format where Gallade gets the buff it long deserved.
 
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Aides said:
:starmie:(mega)
This is the list of additional Pokemon that I think are currently problematic. The least controversial one seems to be Mega Starmie. I think the biggest thing that breaks it is how good of a mixed attacker it is. Flip Turn just lets it ignore potential answers, while Thunderbolt lets it beat Skarmory and Slowbro. Even if it's a little easier to wall, it'll still just pivot loop you until you die. It gets Recover and Rapid Spin to heal the hazard matchup too so like, good luck taking it out over time.
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good insight on the whole. i do think :starmie: should end up a lot less problematic once gren/meta/gallade can't put deathly fear into our available walls
not like the latter two can be its teammates but u know. builder presence
physdef gourgeist and mixed slowking can manage comfortable 3HKOs from anything starmie can throw out tbolt included
with gren gone it legit wouldn't be a throw to run them
 
ValiantValerie said:
if its not Thunderbolt it gets screwed by Slowbro and Skarmory,
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252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even without Rain, Skarmory isn’t an answer. And with Flip Turn you can switch to Pursuit Tyranitar or something to deal with Slowbro 70% of the time.
 
Cuddly said:
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-171 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Even without Rain, Skarmory isn’t an answer. And with Flip Turn you can switch to Pursuit Tyranitar or something to deal with Slowbro 70% of the time.
Click to expand...
Adamant is just asking to get 0 opportunities to come in, and then you're taking rapid chip damage from the rocks Skarm is good at setting up and the Helmet it loves to wear.
Pursuit isn't enough to solve the Slowbro weakness, 252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
That's less hp than it recovers from Regenerator, and even then, if you have to click Pursuit multiple times to put a check down so your wallbreaker can wallbreak, is the wallbreaker actually broken?
 
(Shout out to Blunder. Use this if you want.)

PEAK.gif

This mon is hilarious when paired with the right stuff. I'll let the replays speak for it.
Chesnaught (M) @ Chesnaughtite
Ability: Bulletproof
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Synthesis
- Knock Off
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468572480-hxi7h5x0dlodk42x0ky8m96u6cu5e3vpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468575352-suni0qqr3dgfhjst86bjd19160xxb71pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468579554-vmcv5arvwxqq6r0a3meejha60lt9pflpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468585219-a2gwjdx2dqneod1owr9rrb2v7d2tfuupw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2468590394-l1piwnta5ra49n20eymba3rewj68skbpw​
 
ValiantValerie said:
Adamant is just asking to get 0 opportunities to come in, and then you're taking rapid chip damage from the rocks Skarm is good at setting up and the Helmet it loves to wear.
Pursuit isn't enough to solve the Slowbro weakness, 252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 85-101 (21.5 - 25.6%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
That's less hp than it recovers from Regenerator, and even then, if you have to click Pursuit multiple times to put a check down so your wallbreaker can wallbreak, is the wallbreaker actually broken?
Click to expand...
Adamant :Starmie: hits 339 Speed which speed ties Base 105s, which frankly is already disgusting for a Pokemon with 100 Atk and Pure Power. It’s a decent size gap, you get outsped by Jolly Megagross, Mega Gallade, and Mega Skarmory, but like you also have Aqua Jet and good bulk for how fast and powerful you are. And those are the most Meta relevant Pokemon you no longer naturally outspeed.
It also works the other way around too. None of those Pokemon are switching into Liquidation than Aqua Jet. Hell Mega Gallade dies to 1 Liquidation and 2 Aqua Jets.
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade-Mega: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade-Mega: 126-148 (45.4 - 53.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I don’t even think Mega Starmie should be quickbanned. It should get a suspect test for sure, but it still has SOME flaws at least.
Unless a Pokemon with Drizzle besides Mega Drampa or Kyoger comes along, then which case Starmie needs to be quickbanned.
 
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