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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

Should Heavy-Duty Boots be allowed

  • Total voters
    177
  • Poll closed .
 
Here you go guys, totally the no 1 legends za ou player tier list
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Now this is what i think, and due to so small dex at least many have some form of niche, over half dex is in this tier list, and yes, they are tiered in order. There are maybe few odd choices, but like I won't elaborate because I am the goat, and no one should question me. Ok will elaborate on mega beedrill soon. It's just so strong, it's really the goat.

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It is beeing itself (pun intended, I know I am funny and everyone loves me here)
 
Mega Evolution: :falinks:
New Ability: Full Mecha Body
Ability Description: Full Mecha Body prevents any stats from being lowered what so ever.
No Mold Breaker
No Neutralizing Gas
No Haze or Clear Smog
Not even its own Close Combat
Reasoning:
First, unfortunately Brass Bond kind of sucks and is hard to balance. It’s either getting +3 from Trailblaze in 1 turn + over 60% chance to flinch Iron Heads on a sweeper or glorified x1.3 boost to your attacks that also cause you to take more damage from Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet.
It also kind of goes against Mega Falink’s own design thematically. All the little guys form a new 1 guy like Power Rangers or Voltron. So if anything, Brass Bond should COMBINE moves in some way.

Second, this new ability is derived from and is an upgrade to Full Metal Body, which itself is derived from and is an upgrade of Clear Body.
The idea is that Falinks is an all in type of Pokemon mechanically. Its signature move giving an Omniboost in exchange for not being able to switch out highlights that trait. Once you use it, there is no turning back.
The purpose of Full Mecha Body would be to ensure Falinks can’t be screwed over in any way by Intimidate, Parting Shot, Memento, or its own Close Combat.
Preventing your own Close Combats from dropping your Defenses being a huge deal. After all, using Close Combat once effectively makes No Retreat a single Dragon Dance, and using another fighting move makes you significantly weaker.
It also thematically makes sense too. It’s literally a reference to Mecha TV series. It also creates a FULL BODY too.

Third, in issues with balancing, Mega Falinks has enough flaws to where you still need to soften up your opponent’s team and position correctly to pull off a sweep.
You still do nothing against Unaware Clefable as Unaware would still ignore your stat boosts, it just never decreases them.
Falinks before Mega Evolution has to be cautious around Sticky Webs since it would lower your speed and you’d end up with 0 speed boosts on a Pokemon with only 100 Speed.
Mega Falinks is still vulnerable on the special side and can go down to strong Fairy or Psychic attacks.
Mega Falinks is also still vulnarable to burns, which means burning it after it uses No Retreat makes it a sitting duck you can take advantage of.
Mega Charizard X also exist and is actually similar to Mega Falinks statwise. Similar physical bulk too.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Falinks-Mega: 262-310 (96.6 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 312-367 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The biggest difference coming in Special Bulk which Falinks obviously worse, as well as Special Attack which neither are gonna use.
Both have their own advantages and disadvantages in other regards from boosting moves to attacks and of course abilities with Mega Charziard getting Tough Claws.
This is to say that if the Meta is more than prepared for Mega Charizard without No Retreat, it can definitely handle Mega Falinks with no drawback Close Combats and not cucking its 1 time Omniboost.

Also kind of puts into perspective how Brass Bond makes Mega Falinks just a worse Mega Charizard. Losing 7/8ths of your HP to a Rocky Helmet Garchomp on all your moves, having higher chances of procing Static or Flame Body, and doing less damage because of damage rolls.
 
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Todredmi said:
I feel called out fr
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Don't worry, i did the same. it's just really weird. The ability is kind of fine as is. It's not amazing, but it's just good enough. The only thing I can really think of is maybe hitting ground type and rock types for neutral damage too, that or like give like a small damage buff to like, specifically, poison type moves or hitting poisoned Pokémon for more, along with this ability, since it's more of an acid he spits up. But again it's kind of fine as is for now.
 
Cuddly said:
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I'm tired so I might just miss a part of your post that completely invalidates my response
but afaik Brass Bond blocks additional effects for the 2nd and 3rd hit, therefore Trailblaze only giving +1 speed and Iron Head still having 30% chance to flinch

This Pokemon's damaging moves hit 3x. Successive hits do 15% damage without added effects.
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ViZar said:
I'm tired so I might just miss a part of your post that completely invalidates my response
but afaik Brass Bond blocks additional effects for the 2nd and 3rd hit, therefore Trailblaze only giving +1 speed and Iron Head still having 30% chance to flinch
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Brass Bond ignores secondary effects NOW, but previously in this Petmod you got all 3 hits able to activate secondary effects, which is kind of ridiculous.
That means Iron Head flinch chances are more than Serene Grace. Rock Smash could lower the target’s defense 3 times. Trailblaze would make you faster than Regieleki without speed investment. Close Combat dropped your Defenses by 3 stages.
It was a whole mess before and made Mega Falinks a mini casino to play against.
They also buffed the damage output so you now have an overall 30% damage increase.
 
Cuddly said:
Brass Bond ignores secondary effects NOW, but previously in this Petmod you got all 3 hits able to activate secondary effects, which is kind of ridiculous.
That means Iron Head flinch chances are more than Serene Grace. Rock Smash could lower the target’s defense 3 times. Trailblaze would make you faster than Regieleki without speed investment. Close Combat dropped your Defenses by 3 stages.
It was a whole mess before and made Mega Falinks a mini casino to play against.
They also buffed the damage output so you now have an overall 30% damage increase.
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secondary effects don't matter when assurance exists. brass bond makes it genuinely scary to have anything that isn't a dark and fighting resist out, especially when falinks sets up a no retreat and is threatening a 50/50 of close combat or assurance.

i say this having used this strat and it is VERY funny.
 
King of Komedy said:
Okay new suggestion for Mega Greninja,
Ability: Battle Bond (Gen 7) Makes Water Shuriken more powerful (for those who forgot 15 bp-> 20 bp | Water shuriken is guaranteed to hit 3 times at least)
Reasoning, this change only affects Water Shuriken + M-Gren's water Shuriken would always hit for the 75 bp in Z-A. Not a monumental change (it could be someone can do the calc's)
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Honestly you can just give it its own signature ability called something else other than battle bond that essentially just raises water shuriken to 60 or 75 base power and only hits once, since from what seeing on other posts, M-Gren is still broken even with Protean.
 
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Played the tier a bit more, esp. post Zygarde-50% and thought id post more thoughts.

:greninja: (mega)
Now that Zygarde-50% is banned, i thought we were gonna have a great time with the tier... except we weren't really saved, more like put under new management. Mega Greninja is broken and pretty much owns the entire tier, no doubts. Dragapult :dragapult: speed tier, great offensive typing, Nasty Plot OR Swords Dance, one billion coverage moves, its a miracle it doesnt exist with held items or Battle Bond. Its also not like it has many checks either; The best check seems to be Mega Dragalge :dragalge:, but that uses a mega slot, and for non-megas theres no true "check". Hisiuan Goodra :Goodra-Hisui: with max sp.def and maybe an AV seems okay, but its not perfect since Greninja could run low kick. Vaporeon :vaporeon: is a potential idea, but Greninja 2HKO's it at +2 with Dark Pulse and it can U-Turn on it anyway. Volcanion :volcanion: also gets 2HKO'd by Dark Pulse, even at +0.

I could go on a scooby-doo esque episode's worth of finding stuff this thing beats, but to avoid that, it beats (as far as I know) pretty much everything. And anything it doesn't beat gets outsped and U-Turn'd on. Please ban this mf soon.

:Goodra-Hisui:
Suprisingly good mon, great special wall, decent power, good pivot, im surprised i dont see it more, but thats probably due to Goodra's reputation in VGC and OU/Smogon singles... being very poor. But this metagame is very low power, so it actual excels here as a special wall.

:magikarp:
go away.

:delphox: (mega)
This mon is also, unsurprisingly, broken. Not as bad as Greninja, since at least it can be pursuited/knocked off by some mons, mainly Tyranitar :tyranitar:, but still.

Thats it for now.
 
mindof2moons said:
secondary effects don't matter when assurance exists. brass bond makes it genuinely scary to have anything that isn't a dark and fighting resist out, especially when falinks sets up a no retreat and is threatening a 50/50 of close combat or assurance.

i say this having used this strat and it is VERY funny.
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Assurance does less than Knock Off if the opponent is holding an item that can be removed. Knock Off effectively has 117 BP (97.5 + (65 * 0.3)) while Assurance only has 96 BP (60 + (120 * 0.3)).
So normally, it’s not even stronger than Knock Off. It’s only stronger if your took damage before the first hit or they don’t have an item.
Also you can still use Iron Head, Rock Smash, Trailblaze, Body Slam, Rock Slide, Rock Tomb with old Brass Bond and it’s make fighting Falinks a bunch of dice rolls and not so fun.

I also prefer Full Mecha Body, outside of name of course, because it compliments its tool kit way more than Brass Bond, which Brass Bond kind of desynergizes with No Retreat.
Mega Chesnaught, Garchomp, and physical wall Rocky Helmet users are pretty common. Most of them can pretty easily survive a hit and tanking the hit means you take 3/8ths, 1/2th, or 7/8ths your health. Combine that with how No Retreat prevents you from switching, that means your opponent can very easily KO you by simply switching in.
In contrast, FMB does compliment Falinks and No Retreat since its own Close Combat lowers Falink’s Defenses otherwise, and things like Gyarados, Krookodile, or Sanleye can pivot around Falinks that can’t escape after No Retreat.
 
We all hate Falink's ability, so here's my pitch: destroy it and pretend it never happened. I think something like As One (Glastrier version) would make more sense. Brass Bond's multi-hitting doesn't even make sense. When Falinks mega evolves it becomes a single mon (kinda), not multiple mons like it was before, so why is it suddenly attacking multiple times like they're still separate?. It's pretty much reverse how Mega Kangashan becomes two mons, and the ability should reflect that.

That's the main one, but here's some other fun ideas:
:scrafty: Dancer - with that hoodie on it looks like a break dancer, and the ability would make it much more unique
:chandelure: Shadow Tag - it was stripped of this as a HA in ORAS, give it back! (don't actually do this)
:steelix: IDK - This thing just deserves a more useful ability
 
Cuddly said:
Mega Evolution: :falinks:
New Ability: Full Mecha Body
Ability Description: Full Mecha Body prevents any stats from being lowered what so ever.
No Mold Breaker
No Neutralizing Gas
No Haze or Clear Smog
Not even its own Close Combat
Reasoning:
First, unfortunately Brass Bond kind of sucks and is hard to balance. It’s either getting +3 from Trailblaze in 1 turn + over 60% chance to flinch Iron Heads on a sweeper or glorified x1.2 boost to your attacks that also cause you to take more damage from Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet.
It also kind of goes against Mega Falink’s own design thematically. All the little guys form a new 1 guy like Power Rangers or Voltron. So if anything, Brass Bond should COMBINE moves in some way.

Second, this new ability is derived from and is an upgrade to Full Metal Body, which itself is derived from and is an upgrade of Clear Body.
The idea is that Falinks is an all in type of Pokemon mechanically. Its signature move giving an Omniboost in exchange for not being able to switch out highlights that trait. Once you use it, there is no turning back.
The purpose of Full Mecha Body would be to ensure Falinks can’t be screwed over in any way by Intimidate, Parting Shot, Memento, or its own Close Combat.
Preventing your own Close Combats from dropping your Defenses being a huge deal. After all, using Close Combat once effectively makes No Retreat a single Dragon Dance, and using another fighting move makes you significantly weaker.
It also thematically makes sense too. It’s literally a reference to Mecha TV series. It also creates a FULL BODY too.

Third, in issues with balancing, Mega Falinks has enough flaws to where you still need to soften up your opponent’s team and position correctly to pull off a sweep.
You still do nothing against Unaware Clefable as Unaware would still ignore your stat boosts, it just never decreases them.
Falinks before Mega Evolution has to be cautious around Sticky Webs since it would lower your speed and you’d end up with 0 speed boosts on a Pokemon with only 100 Speed.
Mega Falinks is still vulnerable on the special side and can go down to strong Fairy or Psychic attacks.
Mega Falinks is also still vulnarable to burns, which means burning it after it uses No Retreat makes it a sitting duck you can take advantage of.
Mega Charizard X also exist and is actually similar to Mega Falinks statwise. Similar physical bulk too.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Falinks-Mega: 262-310 (96.6 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 312-367 (105 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The biggest difference coming in Special Bulk which Falinks obviously worse, as well as Special Attack which neither are gonna use.
Both have their own advantages and disadvantages in other regards from boosting moves to attacks and of course abilities with Mega Charziard getting Tough Claws.
This is to say that if the Meta is more than prepared for Mega Charizard without No Retreat, it can definitely handle Mega Falinks with no drawback Close Combats and not cucking its 1 time Omniboost.

Also kind of puts into perspective how Brass Bond makes Mega Falinks just a worse Mega Charizard. Losing 7/8ths of your HP to a Rocky Helmet Garchomp on all your moves, having higher chances of procing Static or Flame Body, and doing less damage because of damage rolls.
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This is literally a worse Defiant except you don't get lowered by CC, its current ability is decently useful and interesting and does help it pick up KOes, and is only annoying for its secondary drawbacks (flame body/helmet/rough skin). This also does not help with Falinks biggest issue (being chipped then getting revenge killed by scarfers/priority) and you will still get wisped and twaved. Also, saying how Falinks is a worse Zard is pretty crazy; different typing (not taking 50% from rocks moment) and different coverage and checks/counters make them very distinct from each other, not sure how you thought Zard and Falinks are similar in the slightest (or for that matter how a worse Defiant would help out lol)
 
Cuddly said:
Assurance does less than Knock Off if the opponent is holding an item that can be removed. Knock Off effectively has 117 BP (97.5 + (65 * 0.3)) while Assurance only has 96 BP (60 + (120 * 0.3)).
So normally, it’s not even stronger than Knock Off. It’s only stronger if your took damage before the first hit or they don’t have an item.
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huh, really? i figured assurance is stronger because of the boost after the opponent takes damage.
 
UberSkitty said:
We all hate Falink's ability, so here's my pitch: destroy it and pretend it never happened. I think something like As One (Glastrier version) would make more sense. Brass Bond's multi-hitting doesn't even make sense. When Falinks mega evolves it becomes a single mon (kinda), not multiple mons like it was before, so why is it suddenly attacking multiple times like they're still separate?. It's pretty much reverse how Mega Kangashan becomes two mons, and the ability should reflect that.

That's the main one, but here's some other fun ideas:
:scrafty: Dancer - with that hoodie on it looks like a break dancer, and the ability would make it much more unique
:chandelure: Shadow Tag - it was stripped of this as a HA in ORAS, give it back! (don't actually do this)
:steelix: IDK - This thing just deserves a more useful ability
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As One wouldn’t work since As One combines the abilities of Calyrex and Glastrier. Where would it get its second ability from?
As for Steelix, one idea would be regular spikes version of Toxic Debris. It’d make Mega Steelix a great addition for HO teams for similar reason to why Glimmora is popular. It’d be even better since Mega Steelix is far bulkier than Glimmora and Spikes are deadlier than Toxic Spikes.
fake tom numbers said:
This is literally a worse Defiant except you don't get lowered by CC, its current ability is decently useful and interesting and does help it pick up KOes, and is only annoying for its secondary drawbacks (flame body/helmet/rough skin). This also does not help with Falinks biggest issue (being chipped then getting revenge killed by scarfers/priority) and you will still get wisped and twaved. Also, saying how Falinks is a worse Zard is pretty crazy; different typing (not taking 50% from rocks moment) and different coverage and checks/counters make them very distinct from each other, not sure how you thought Zard and Falinks are similar in the slightest (or for that matter how a worse Defiant would help out lol)
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FMB wouldn’t be strictly worse than Defiant, even disregarding Close Combat/Superpower stat drops.
You are completely immune to Haze, Clear Smog, and Neutralizing Gas, which Defiant isn’t. When you switch into Sticky Webs, FMB would not lower your speed while Defiant would and would mean your No Retreat would have 0 speed boost. You are also still capable of taking advantage of Defiant beforehand like switching into Defog.

And like I said before about Brass Bond, it’s essentially Tough Claws but arguably worse in most scenarios since contact punishing abilities and items screw over Falinks move. You switch in TankChomp once with Rocky Helmet and Mega Falinks is nearly dead from Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet. Attack a Flame Body user and there is about a 65.7% you’ll be burned in 1 attack. The advantage of breaking Focus Sash or Substitute are minimal considering that Focus Sash has multiple ways to break and the second and/or third hits barely tickle a Pokemon after a Sub breaks.
The reason why Parental Bond is good is because Seismic Toss being 200 damage and the second hit having secondary effects activate.
If it wasn’t for those 2 interactions, post nerf Mega Kangaskhan would honestly be a terrible Mega by today’s standards. Falinks doesn’t learn Seismic Toss (thankfully it doesn’t) and secondary effects don’t activate on the weaker hits.
 
UberSkitty said:
That's the main one, but here's some other fun ideas:
:scrafty: Dancer - with that hoodie on it looks like a break dancer, and the ability would make it much more unique
:chandelure: Shadow Tag - it was stripped of this as a HA in ORAS, give it back! (don't actually do this)
:steelix: IDK - This thing just deserves a more useful ability
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I feel like Mega Steelix would work perfectly fine with Earth Eater, Flash Fire, or even Water Absorb. Those two abilities help patch up some of its weaknesses and could give it a niche by virtue of its defensive profile compared to everything in the meta.

In the case of Earth Eater and Water Absorb, they even help patch up its lack of recovery (kind of), which could help it stick around on the field longer. It's not flashy, it's very much on the simple side of things, but when it comes to vanilla megas, sometimes simple just works. Dry Skin Mega Garchomp, anyone?

Scrafty doesn't really need an ability change, imo. Dancer wouldn't even do that much for it in a practical sense anyways - what relevant dance moves even exist for Scrafty to take advantage of? Shed Skin is not the most useful option, but it works well enough for what it is. Not every mega is going to break OU, and that's ok.
 
War Incarnate said:
I feel like Mega Steelix would work perfectly fine with Earth Eater, Flash Fire, or even Water Absorb. Those two abilities help patch up some of its weaknesses and could give it a niche by virtue of its defensive profile compared to everything in the meta.

In the case of Earth Eater and Water Absorb, they even help patch up its lack of recovery (kind of), which could help it stick around on the field longer. It's not flashy, it's very much on the simple side of things, but when it comes to vanilla megas, sometimes simple just works. Dry Skin Mega Garchomp, anyone?

Scrafty doesn't really need an ability change, imo. Dancer wouldn't even do that much for it in a practical sense anyways - what relevant dance moves even exist for Scrafty to take advantage of? Shed Skin is not the most useful option, but it works well enough for what it is. Not every mega is going to break OU, and that's ok.
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Earth Eater works but what the hell did you hit to think of flash fire or water absorb? At least TRY and make the abilities make sense then "It's a direct upgrade."

Also for Dancer M-Scrafty, it could switch into an Aegislash using swords dance or a dragon dance user, that's all I can really think of, Maybe it actually gets Dancer and it can switch on a Quiver dance mon? It probably loses half of it's health but it's niche (like shed skin ngl)
 
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King of Komedy said:
I suggest you use skarmory as a stealth rock setter with body press than Diancie (Maybe Mega Diancie for magic bounce shenanigans), but you could have body press on both to deal with other pesky excadrill. also try to predict excadrill rapid spins with Aegislash, I've also had more use with Swords dance over close combat (Shadow sneak and Iron heads go crazy)
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Thanks for the advice!
i was thinking about using Skarm but i didnt want too many steel types on one team and diacie seemed fun to mess around with, I will admit the Endeavor strat is very gimmicky though.
 
this format looks fire, but I’m curious as to what the meta is like if there is any at all. Is HO good? What does it look like? What’s the best archetype? What are the best mons/megas?
 
658Greninja said:
this format looks fire, but I’m curious as to what the meta is like if there is any at all. Is HO good? What does it look like? What’s the best archetype? What are the best mons/megas?
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I think the "meta" is mostly hazards (stealth rocks) with Skarm and Clef and Excadrill, most notable megas is mostly Mega Gren an Delphox but I've had some use with mega Dragonite
 
658Greninja said:
this format looks fire, but I’m curious as to what the meta is like if there is any at all. Is HO good? What does it look like? What’s the best archetype? What are the best mons/megas?
Click to expand...

The best Megas in my opinion goes like this:
1) Greninja
2) Starmie
3) Floette
4) Gallade (Gets Sharpness for fun)
5) Lopunny

A lot of them are viable though, although it hasn't been a month Dhelmise has categorised Pokémon into OU and UU if you check the tier on client by assumed usage and that's a pretty good look at what is good.

In my opinion balance is most optimal with a powerful Mega in the back as they're a lot more powerful than every other Pokémon due to the small dex and being able to setup opportunities purely to get yours in and have the ability to make defensive plays against opposing Megas is vital.

HO is really good, your main suicide leads are Meowstic, Garchomp and Slurpuff for webs.
 
I just reached top 100 on the ladder - currently 61st. This team has served me well so far:

:Garchomp: :Greninja: :Aegislash: :Dragonite: :Volcanion: :Excadrill:
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail

Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot

Aegislash @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Stance Change
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak

Dragonite @ Dragoninite
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse

Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
- Taunt

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Dual hazards Chomp helps for chipping things. I made it max speed Jolly but a bulkier set could work as long as it's faster than opposing Excadrill. Scarf Greninja is unexpected and a great revenge killer. Very helpful against opposing Greninja/Mega Greninja. Aegislash is part wallbreaker, part spinblocker - it would be Air Balloon if that existed in this meta. Mega Dragonite is a potent late-game cleaner if special walls are worn down enough. Volcanion is a pain to switch into and hampers fat builds with Taunt. It's also the main Skarmory answer because going hard into Dragonite on a potential Brave Bird or Body Press would break Multiscale. Excadrill provides hazard control and extra power; Skarmory is probably the only mon in the tier that isn't 2HKO'd by +2 EQ/Iron Head.

I find these mons have a good enough combo of natural bulk and typing to play around opposing offense while remaining strong enough to deal with bulkier builds.

Some other observations about the current meta:
  • :Excadrill: It's very centralizing due to being the best Ground type and Rapid Spin user and it's a major factor in why Skarmory is one of the best mons in the tier.
  • :Skarmory: The most splashable blanket check to physical attackers in the meta, except arguably Slowbro. Great Defog user but it can be very annoying with hazards too, especially because it counters Excadrill. I like to use Rocky Helmet.
  • :Greninja: One of the biggest threats no matter which set it's using. Mega Gren constrains teambuilding a lot and I think the tier is better off without it, even if it got a useless ability. Mega Dragalge and Hisuian Goodra are the best answers while SpDef Clefable and Vaporeon are decent.
  • :Garchomp: SD Garchomp is really scary. If you don't have Unaware Clef or a means to revenge kill then it's going to win a lot of games on its own, assuming it has Fire Fang in the last slot. TankChomp is an excellent hazard setter and wears down many prominent attackers. Mixed LO might be good too but I haven't used it or seen anyone else use it.
  • :Aegislash: A huge pain for fat teams to beat. It has a lot of great sets but I particularly like SD + 3 attacks.
  • :Scizor: SD + 3 attacks is really damn good. Bulky Roost + SD could be good; Mega Scizor does this better but I think the opportunity cost of the Mega slot is too high to use it. Also it's more fun to try the new megas.
  • :Starmie: I haven't really seen non-mega sets but I think a bulky Rapid Spin set could be very good. Mega Starmie is a menace; without chip damage it's very hard to deal with. I like using Thunderbolt to beat Skarmory and Slowbro.
  • :Gengar: :Alakazam: I haven't played much with either of their Nasty Plot sets but they seem to have a lot of potential. Mega Gren outclasses them imo but I wouldn't say regular Gren does: it's a little faster but much less powerful.
  • :Zygarde-10%: Banded Thousand Arrows is still a huge threat to most teams. Shame about its terrible shellfish (Slowbro) allergy.
I haven't tried at least half of the new megas and I haven't touched the old ones. The ladder seems the same way, so I think there are a ton of unexplored threats in the meta. I don't think any megas will be as good as the frog and the starfish though.
 
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658Greninja said:
this format looks fire, but I’m curious as to what the meta is like if there is any at all. Is HO good? What does it look like? What’s the best archetype? What are the best mons/megas?
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imo the meta is basically have 4 of the broken mons + skarm + filler defensive mon and click buttons.
Do not play balance or anything fatter, you ain't beating Sharpness Mega-Gallade, both Grens, Mega Starmie, Hoopa-U, Zard-Y, Diancie-M...


On another note, here are two suggestions for abilities:

Steelix-Mega
New Ability: Diamond Coating
Effect: This Pokemon takes 40% reduced damage from physical attacks
Reasoning: This archetype of high Defense mons that aren't actually tanking hits is well-known. This damage reduction would help switching into strong Earthquakes or Close Combats much better without recoursing to damage immunity abilities, which would remove Earth Power as counterplay to the newfound physical bulk buff that something like Earth Eater would disallow for example..

Scrafty-Mega
New ability: I did not find a name lol
Effect: Ignores Fairy-type effectiveness on this Pokemon (becomes neutral)
Reasoning: not super original, but this would let Scrafty have a much easier time against Unaware Clefable specifically, but also all defensive Fairies without having strong Moonblasts form the likes of M-Diancie or Gardevoir bounce off either. I believe this is a huge buff that would need to take effect only once the most egregious stuff is banned (looking at you, M-Gallade) to allow balance more avenues of counterplay to setup sweepers that isn't Unaware Clef.
 
fluff!! said:
imo the meta is basically have 4 of the broken mons + skarm + filler defensive mon and click buttons.
Do not play balance or anything fatter, you ain't beating Sharpness Mega-Gallade, both Grens, Mega Starmie, Hoopa-U, Zard-Y, Diancie-M...
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This is straight up wrong??? Balance is argably the best playstye in the format, because all the best Pokemon are defensive. Think of Clefable, Garchomp, Excadrill, Skarmory, Slowtwins, Tyranitar, etc. Things like Mega Gallade, Hoopa-U, Zard-Y, and Mega Starmie have an incredible inability to switch in, and get punished by varying things even when they come in. I.e: Gallade truly comes in on nothing that isnt heavily chipped, Hoopa-U gets mauled by Pursuiters, Starmie is an entry for Greninja and can get short-term walled by Slowtwins / Gourgeist. Zard has a 4x rocks weakness and gets kinda cooked by Dragonite/Salamence. Greninjas are the only ones dificult to deal with (Low Kick U turn variants specifically) and even then, Balance doesnt have a much harder time dealing with them than offensive teams. Stall cant play nearly as proactively so it makes sense to discourage players from that, but balance is the most dominant structure right now

I wanted to wait until Mgren got nuked but since everyone is doing it and it doesn't look like Mega Greninja's ban is certain, here's my current take on the meta

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