Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU

[effluxi]

What about unaware for mega clefable? I feel like unaware would be really good since it's pretty much just a stronger, bulkier clef and I'm pretty sure would have the best stats of any unaware mon.

As for mega Dragonite, would it be that big of a deal to just give it no guard and remove zap cannon? It hasn't had access to it since gen 2 according to Bulbapedia z and yeah I know this is supposed to be "za with nat dex movepools" but that's already been broken a few times like heavy duty boots or removing hidden power, plus the fact that a couple pokemon have had there abilities changes like mega audino. If there's already a willingness to bend things I don't see why that couldn't be applied here

Getting to run a Magic Guard Clef that can sacrifice item to switch to an Unaware set on the fly sounds like it'd have applications at least, which is better than right now where it's kinda just worse than both sets. I don't think it's what it'll actually get though.

And yeah afaik natdex movepools are kinda just here because ZA removed rapid spin and defog, the rest is just extra. Also forgot Zap was from gen 2 lmao Dnite learns so many moves i assumed it was in gen9 somehow

 

[4G3NT CROISSANT]

Oh hey that's me in one of the replays!! ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

As for , it does look good as once it megas, it can resist both of the STABs from gren and also it's other coverage moves like ice and poison, it can also resist u-turn pre-mega. Although it can be hindered by Mega Starmie for it as it can sometimes run Tbolt (and also Lopunny with mach punch after you mega) ^^"

Which one am I from the replays you say?

Well I am a bit randomz some may say (no one says that about me)
View attachment 786796

I remember you. Hard to forget, but yeah, Dos seems good but it needs to set up which seems to slow down the team.

 

[4G3NT CROISSANT]

Just used Starmie for the first time.
https://pokepast.es/9dedb9a4098ea8b8

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2482481616-45snf567gc21n4ciixc05eluhd2vre9pw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9legendszaou-2482494904-37jlcmlluo8onebtgu8tovra6390mjcpw

Seems a bit strong with just two stab moves.​

 

[Amaske]

I kept this tier list about what I have used myself or seen being used on the ladder, so if you think some Pokemon are ranked lower, then that is because I haven't gotten to exploring them. I have used all the mons down to A tier, so feel pretty confident about those rankings. Somewhat skeptical about Greninja, I feel like it's borderline broken. Definitely think Mega Gren should be booted. Mega Gallade is there because of sheer damage numbers. Other than a Physdef Mega Sableye, I don't know a mon that can tank hits from it, and it's not that frail either.

Made a video about my reasoning too if you are interested.

 

[GoTELuckyCharms]

I'm noticing gren's now using u-turn and low kick to counter ttar and av hoopa-u. Times like these where I miss blissey.

 

[SittinGamer]

u turn has 100% been its best move like forever. Low kick is more for Hoodra in my experience, but it defo owns Tar as well.

 

[Gigabowser20]

View attachment 786978

I kept this tier list about what I have used myself or seen being used on the ladder, so if you think some Pokemon are ranked lower, then that is because I haven't gotten to exploring them. I have used all the mons down to A tier, so feel pretty confident about those rankings. Somewhat skeptical about Greninja, I feel like it's borderline broken. Definitely think Mega Gren should be booted. Mega Gallade is there because of sheer damage numbers. Other than a Physdef Mega Sableye, I don't know a mon that can tank hits from it, and it's not that frail either.

Made a video about my reasoning too if you are interested.

Man I feel like when the top 4 tiers in a meta that was created to play around with new megas has 18 Pokemon and only 2 are megas (one an old mega) that is a little bit of a problem....my gut reaction is that a lot of these new megas are under explored and in surprised people aren't trying them out more (frankly I expected way more megas to be ou even if they arent top tier, just because of usage alone. But I've actually run into a surprising amount of teams with 0 megas even).

Its going to be very interesting to see how this meta will compare to the future official metas. I think some of these (like meganium or barbaracle) are going to perform much better in the wider meta

Also for this list specifically, I do think starmie and maybe delphox at least should go up a tier. Personally I've seen very few krookodile so I'm surprised to see it so high. I'd also argue a case for mega falinks possibly moving to b+. It definitely has counters and is reliant on no retreat but it can be quite powerful when properly used and set up. I've had pretty good success with it so far personally, breaking through subs and sash is nice and knock off+iron head gives pretty good coverage. I wish it had just a touch more power but I'd say it's still quite solid, if you can manage to get defiant proc before mega you're set

 

[Amaske]

Man I feel like when the top 4 tiers in a meta that was created to play around with new megas has 18 Pokemon and only 2 are megas (one an old mega) that is a little bit of a problem....my gut reaction is that a lot of these new megas are under explored and in surprised people aren't trying them out more (frankly I expected way more megas to be ou even if they arent top tier, just because of usage alone. But I've actually run into a surprising amount of teams with 0 megas even).

Its going to be very interesting to see how this meta will compare to the future official metas. I think some of these (like meganium or barbaracle) are going to perform much better in the wider meta

Also for this list specifically, I do think starmie and maybe delphox at least should go up a tier. Personally I've seen very few krookodile so I'm surprised to see it so high. I'd also argue a case for mega falinks possibly moving to b+. It definitely has counters and is reliant on no retreat but it can be quite powerful when properly used and set up. I've had pretty good success with it so far personally, breaking through subs and sash is nice and knock off+iron head gives pretty good coverage. I wish it had just a touch more power but I'd say it's still quite solid, if you can manage to get defiant proc before mega you're set

I haven't seen anybody not use a Mega but it's true some of them are underexplored. I could see Mega Delphox and Mega Starmie being ranked higher. I’ll have to use them more.

I've found Krookodile to be incredible, to be honest. It's one of the two good STAB Pursuit users, and Pursuit is insane in the tier. Intimidate is very useful as well. Two immunities along with Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Taunt is really good utility. Overall, there's a lot more to what it can do besides just being a Scarfer, which I feel like most people see it as.

The problem with Mega Falinks is that it takes Helmet chip on all three hits, and pretty much every Physdef mon in the tier runs Helmet. If you end up hitting a Helmet Chomp, then you're as good as dead. When you consider that chip and the defense drops from CC, there's not much it can do before it gets revenged by some form of priority. Of course, it can Knock Off Helmets and even take a defensive answer from the opposing team down with it so that something else on your team can work and for that I feel like a B tier placement is fair. But you never know, perhaps I need to use it more and maybe if the meta shifts more towards offense then it can be ranked higher.

 

[Cuddly]

Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
Mega Charizard X is severally underrated.
This metagame lacking bulky waters, Unawaremons, and Heatran should open the floodgates for it. After 1 Dragon Dance with given EVs, you already are outspeeding Mega Greninja. And after +1 you cleanly OHKO Mega Starmie.
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 268-316 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This makes you a massive threat to opposing Mega Evolutions
Not only that, but you’re also pretty bulky with even Rain boosted Aqua Jets dealing barely more than 50%
252+ Atk Huge Power Starmie-Mega Aqua Jet vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X in Rain: 165-195 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The only threat Charizard has to really deal with is Excadrill, specifically in Sand. However here is a spread where you can outspeed Excadrill after 2 Dragon Dances
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Jolly Nature
With this spread, you’re one point faster than Excadrill and makes you bulkier, but comes at the cost of some power, which does mean OHKOing Mega Starmie is now a roll.
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie-Mega: 246-289 (94.2 - 110.7%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
You do need 2 DDs to outspeed Excadrill, however you can utilize base form Charizard by avoiding Earthquake before you Mega Evolve.
That’s more specific and you could very easily deal with SR Exca some other way, which is why I recommend the former spread.

 

[stardustspy]

& (mega)

After much discussion in the ZA OU discord and playing the tier plenty more (finally broke 1300 )I must finally come out against Greninja...

And im not just after the mega, im after the frog itself.

This Pokemon is so unbelievably meta warping that the only reason why its still here was because Zygarde-50 was tearing the tier apart so that had to go first, but then (correct me if im wrong) we realised giving Mega Greninja Skill Link was way too strong, so we gave it technician, but that was also too strong, so now we opted for Protean. While some may argue it would be fine with Torrent or some throwaway ability like Illuminate, I disagree heavily, since Mega Greninja stat mogs so much of the tier that it ain't worth trying to preserve. I also dont think it brings much to the tier, other then an unwanted speed tier that causes leading against it to be terrible.

Let me start with Mega Greninja because that guy might get banned soon and i want to plead my case before any possible second thoughts. 142 base speed is already too high for such a low power tier like this. That puts it in the top 3 speediest mons in the tier. Who are the next 2 above? Mega Beedrill, who as we all know is Potential Mon himself, and Mega Aerodactyl, who drops to a Bullet Punch. We all know about how it speed ties Dragapult, but Dragapult has 120 attack and 100 sp.atk, while high, is outmuscled by Mega Greninja's 125 atack and 133 sp.atk. So by stats alone, we're dealing with what is essentially Battle Bond Dragapult Mini-Ash Greninja. Doesn't seem that bad right? Not really, until you look at all of its checks...


Hoodra has been one of the best Greninja checks in the tier. It and Volcanion probably are the reason(s) why Greninja hasnt been banned immediately, its massive Special Defense, Steel/Dragon typing and good offensive stats means that careless Greninja's do like 30% to it at most with a special attack and get smacked with a Draco Meteor. Problem sol- oh he has Low Kick, which ohko's max hp 4 def Hoodra...

192 Atk Protean Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 366-432 (100.5 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So its best theoretical check gets smacked by Low Kick. And Clefable? I havent really seen a Clefable do well into a Greninja yet, but Clefable often gets Gunk Shot anyway and steamrolled. Remember, you cannot outspeed this thing unless you have 1) boosted speed already 2) choice scarf'd on certain mons or 3) naturally speed tie it (itslef) or outpace it ( and ) Slowtwins, both Galar and Kanto? Well im not too sure what you're doing switching a Psychic type into a Dark type, unless you know they dont have Dark Pulse. But those guys get U-Turn'd on and checked by Greninja's teammates.

You could try to mash priority such as Scizor's Bullet Punch or Dragonite's Extreme Speed , but again, Greninja should have teammates. Also, Flame Body Talonflame makes using (contact) priority unwise anyway, since one burn and its over for most physical attackers in the tier.

So we cant outspeed the guy, we cant wall it because it might have the set that beats your wall, and if it doesnt it just U-Turns out, and we cant out-offense the guy because that can be a risky gambit if your goal is to check/stop Mega Greninja given, say a teammate Talonflame switching in and burning you with Flame Body, or bulky Garchomp coming in, taking 13% or smth with Rough Skin, more with Rocky Helmet, and doing bulky Garchomp things.

Okay but lets say we do try to change its ability to Torrent. Mega Greninja can't OHKO Hoodra anymore with Low Kick, but this guy isn't exactly frail, so its entirely possible to run Swords Dance and...

+2 0 Atk Greninja-Mega Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 416-490 (114.2 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

...now our best check gets OHKO'd again, but now its threatening to sweep us harder because its at +2. Does Torrent make Mega Greninja's life a lot harder? Yes, losing a coverage move and having to safely pick up a Swords Dance in the first place can be tricky, but given how fast it is, good luck actually stopping this if it does happen. And im only covering for if the Mega Greninja is physical since i believe that is rising in popularity right now. I imagine theres a few different sets you can run on Mega Greninja, with mixed likely being the second best.

For these reasons, I say get rid of Mega Greninja at the next possible oppurtunity. No beating around the bush with Torrent or Illuminate or some other ability.

 

[stardustspy]

Now for base Greninja. With access to a hold item, Greninja's possible sets can mix and match to beat whatever match up you need to beat. 122 base speed puts it as one of the fastest non-megas in the tier, only behind Aerodactyl, Jolteon and, uh... Noivern i guess.

its getting late where I live so i might continue my thesis on why greninja should be banned from the unserious fake tier later, but to summerize, greninja is able to run tons of different sets, and its really difficult to predict which one it is until you either get punished for making the wrong call i.e. switching Hoodra into a Greninja, which is usually correct, but it uses Low Kick, or punish it yourself because you guessed correctly. anyone better at this tier then me who also doesnt like Greninja's presence here, please speak out, i believe we are so close to having a really fun metagame on our hands but its being held back by a few sour apples (until dlc drops which is when we get power nuked into oblivion)

 

[SwordIsBored]

With all the discourse regarding Greninja and its Mega counterpart, I think people are forgetting what is really running rampant. Throughout ladder, from my experience, Mega Floette seems to be the most popular choice of Mega with this "unwallable" Mega Greninja nowhere to be seen. I believe that Mega Floette's stats make it broken at its core and even when having its ability nerfed it is still unrealistic to answer and can rather easily bypass its checks.

Having a disgustingly powerful stat spread, very little can switch into a 95 Base Power STAB move off of a Special Attack of 155 which is only the start of why this Pokémon is so unbearably powerful. Due to how immediately threatening it is, even disregarding Calm Mind, the metagame is seemingly beginning to shift around it with Scizors mostly opting to run Specially Defensive sets as to not die in two hits after having to repeatedly come in. A disgusting combo I've found is to pair Mega Floette with Talonflame which can sit on the only two answers in the tier being Scizor and Excadrill and threaten to burn them which can help Mega Floette even stay in if it needs to and blow through them. I think it's important to address why Goodra-Hisui isn't a consistent check here, "consistent check" don't exist against Mega Floette but Goodra-Hisui is so inherently flawed that I don't count it. Due to becoming so much heavier in its Mega form, Mega Floette only takes 80 from Heavy Slam which prevents most sets from doing meaningful damage unless they specifically opt to be physically oriented for Mega Floette, which is a bad idea because you have less bulk for the other threats in the tier and Mega Floette's own Moonblasts. As for Flash Cannon, after a few Calm Minds suddenly your check is overwhelmed which creates a similar situation to the matchup against Slowking-Galar where at +2 Mega Floette is able to use Substitute on you. Paired with Calm Mind and a Special Defense stat considerably higher than Blissey's, it is unrealistic to call any Special Attackers a check. Funnily enough, the most slappable and capable is Greninja's Choice Specs Sludge Wave which can brawl it even after a Calm Mind boost after gaining a resistance to Fairy moves from Protean. This is very hard to switch in however and the Mega Floette user can abuse you being locked in by pivoting to a Steel-type for free progress.

It feels like this Pokémon was made to have no ways to beat it as you constantly have to gamble with its sets, I haven't mentioned it and I know if I don't it'll be brought up so I'll say that Draining Kiss is an incredibly good move choice on this Pokémon and can support you even further in taking down Pokémon you really shouldn't.

I think the most outrageous thing about this Pokémon is that whether you agree it can get through these very few checks isn't even the point, even though it'd be silly to argue against it, it is incredibly powerful and overwhelming beyond that.

As of right now I think this is the Pokémon which needs to be banned most though I haven't seen anyone talking about it surprisingly enough despite having way more usage than Mega Greninja and feeling as if it is on every team at this rate. My reasoning for banning it specifically is that I think its current ability is alright, I feel like unless we give it something useless like Flower Veil (which would just be boring and a Pokémon with these stats isn't something I care to preserve) it'll be just as if not more strong. I've seen the idea of Magic Guard being bounced around and I believe that would only make it stronger.

In conclusion, Mega Floette might just be THE Legend of ZA.

 

[King of Komedy]

New Ability to try and balance Mega Greninja.
Protein -> Overconfident
(Ability description): The Pokemon boasts when sent out onto the field, Allowing it's moves to never miss (Moves above 100 bp are reduced to a flat 100bp) when taken to or below half HP the pokemon is caught off guard causing its attacking stats to be reduced by 1.5 times (not affected by stat modifiers)

This just nerfs mega Greninja basically, well somewhat. Now it isn't a nuke and with the constant hazards is now more work to get it on the field. "What if they immediately mega?" Priority, Fake out, and i'm pretty sure D Dance Dnite Extreme speed would neutralize Greninja as a threat.

 

[fluff!!]

With all the discourse regarding Greninja and its Mega counterpart, I think people are forgetting what is really running rampant. Throughout ladder, from my experience, Mega Floette seems to be the most popular choice of Mega with this "unwallable" Mega Greninja nowhere to be seen.

I have played 250+ ladder games and I've seen like, maybe 1 Mega Floette. Meanwhile I have seen M-Greninja in easily at least 30 of my games so maybe we're just not playing the same ladder. I've seen more Mega Barbaracle and Mega Malamar than I've seen Mega Floettes, and I consistently play in 1400-1600 range, not 1000. I also don't see M-Floette being that big of a problem (and I have played it for a few games too), it has a LOT of trouble getting past the Steel of the opponent's team since it has no coverage to speak of, Excadrill is everywhere, Scizor is a death sentence, Aegislash is quite popular too. Oh and Gren is faster and Gunk Shots you. Even Talonflame is tough to get past tbh, you can beat it but you usually end up being severely weakened and any remotely fast physical attacker or any priority just finishes you off which is a very meh result for your Mega slot when you could be playing... oh I don't know, Mega Greninja, Mega Starmie, uuuh... well, that's it because those two are so unbelievably broken that playing any other mega is borderline trolling atp, hence why we have 5 (five) megas ranked OU.

 

[G-Luke]

New Ability to try and balance Mega Greninja.
Protein -> Overconfident
(Ability description): The Pokemon boasts when sent out onto the field, Allowing it's moves to never miss (Moves above 100 bp are reduced to a flat 100bp) when taken to or below half HP the pokemon is caught off guard causing its attacking stats to be reduced by 1.5 times (not affected by stat modifiers)

This just nerfs mega Greninja basically, well somewhat. Now it isn't a nuke and with the constant hazards is now more work to get it on the field. "What if they immediately mega?" Priority, Fake out, and i'm pretty sure D Dance Dnite Extreme speed would neutralize Greninja as a threat.

The ZA OU Discord and the ZA OU Forum thread are really two Different Animals, but the Same Beasts

 

[Cuddly]

With all the discourse regarding Greninja and its Mega counterpart, I think people are forgetting what is really running rampant. Throughout ladder, from my experience, Mega Floette seems to be the most popular choice of Mega with this "unwallable" Mega Greninja nowhere to be seen. I believe that Mega Floette's stats make it broken at its core and even when having its ability nerfed it is still unrealistic to answer and can rather easily bypass its checks.

Having a disgustingly powerful stat spread, very little can switch into a 95 Base Power STAB move off of a Special Attack of 155 which is only the start of why this Pokémon is so unbearably powerful. Due to how immediately threatening it is, even disregarding Calm Mind, the metagame is seemingly beginning to shift around it with Scizors mostly opting to run Specially Defensive sets as to not die in two hits after having to repeatedly come in. A disgusting combo I've found is to pair Mega Floette with Talonflame which can sit on the only two answers in the tier being Scizor and Excadrill and threaten to burn them which can help Mega Floette even stay in if it needs to and blow through them. I think it's important to address why Goodra-Hisui isn't a consistent check here, "consistent check" don't exist against Mega Floette but Goodra-Hisui is so inherently flawed that I don't count it. Due to becoming so much heavier in its Mega form, Mega Floette only takes 80 from Heavy Slam which prevents most sets from doing meaningful damage unless they specifically opt to be physically oriented for Mega Floette, which is a bad idea because you have less bulk for the other threats in the tier and Mega Floette's own Moonblasts. As for Flash Cannon, after a few Calm Minds suddenly your check is overwhelmed which creates a similar situation to the matchup against Slowking-Galar where at +2 Mega Floette is able to use Substitute on you. Paired with Calm Mind and a Special Defense stat considerably higher than Blissey's, it is unrealistic to call any Special Attackers a check. Funnily enough, the most slappable and capable is Greninja's Choice Specs Sludge Wave which can brawl it even after a Calm Mind boost after gaining a resistance to Fairy moves from Protean. This is very hard to switch in however and the Mega Floette user can abuse you being locked in by pivoting to a Steel-type for free progress.

It feels like this Pokémon was made to have no ways to beat it as you constantly have to gamble with its sets, I haven't mentioned it and I know if I don't it'll be brought up so I'll say that Draining Kiss is an incredibly good move choice on this Pokémon and can support you even further in taking down Pokémon you really shouldn't.

I think the most outrageous thing about this Pokémon is that whether you agree it can get through these very few checks isn't even the point, even though it'd be silly to argue against it, it is incredibly powerful and overwhelming beyond that.

As of right now I think this is the Pokémon which needs to be banned most though I haven't seen anyone talking about it surprisingly enough despite having way more usage than Mega Greninja and feeling as if it is on every team at this rate. My reasoning for banning it specifically is that I think its current ability is alright, I feel like unless we give it something useless like Flower Veil (which would just be boring and a Pokémon with these stats isn't something I care to preserve) it'll be just as if not more strong. I've seen the idea of Magic Guard being bounced around and I believe that would only make it stronger.

In conclusion, Mega Floette might just be THE Legend of ZA.

Mega Floette struggle against the very common Steel types in the tier as it lacks any sort of coverage. Not even having a single move that hits Steel neutrally, let alone hits Steel types super effectively.
Mega Greninja on the other hand is very centralizing pretty much because of Nasty Plot and speed tier. Like imagine if Dragapult got Nasty Plot. Except not only Nasty Plot Dragapult, but also Nasty Plot Dragapult with Sword Dance too, a wide movepool, STAB priority, and in a limited Metagame where only 2 other Megas can even outspeed you unboosted + only 1 weather is really viable that also is weak to your priority.
Not only is it hard to wall, much harder to wall than Mega Floette, but revenge killing Mega Greninja is also hard too. Even using priority isn’t that reliable either when Protean can change what is super effective, neutral, or resisted, and it has Water Shuriken. One moment, Mach Punch Mega Lopunny would have KO’d a chipped Mega Gren, next moment it used a Water move in your sack to become a pure Water.
One moment your Bullet Punch on Scizor was about to KO Greninja, but it used Water Shuriken at +2 and KO’s your Scizor.
One moment you get Mega Greninja into E-Speed from Dragonite or Zygarde, and next moment it was Sword Dance and used Rock Slide or Shadow Sneak.

New Ability to try and balance Mega Greninja.
Protein -> Overconfident
(Ability description): The Pokemon boasts when sent out onto the field, Allowing it's moves to never miss (Moves above 100 bp are reduced to a flat 100bp) when taken to or below half HP the pokemon is caught off guard causing its attacking stats to be reduced by 1.5 times (not affected by stat modifiers)

This just nerfs mega Greninja basically, well somewhat. Now it isn't a nuke and with the constant hazards is now more work to get it on the field. "What if they immediately mega?" Priority, Fake out, and i'm pretty sure D Dance Dnite Extreme speed would neutralize Greninja as a threat.

I REALLY doubt GameFreak is gonna give any Mega that isn’t Slaking or Regigigas a mostly detrimental ability.
I also really doubt that giving Mega Greninja yet another ability after going through multiple iterations is gonna be more appealing than just banning Mega Greninja.
At that point, why not give Mega Gengar Truant? Why not give Mega Alakazam Stall?
Doing so would actually be worse as making a Mega shitty through its ability wouldn’t affect competent players, while new players will use Mega Greninja because its their favorite.
Plus Dhemise said that Protean was supposed to be Mega Greninja’s last chance before being banned.

 

[SwordIsBored]

Mega Floette struggle against the very common Steel types in the tier as it lacks any sort of coverage. Not even having a single move that hits Steel neutrally, let alone hits Steel types super effectively.

I fear you didn't read my post which detailed why this doesn't matter in the slightest

 

[ValiantValerie]

With all the discourse regarding Greninja and its Mega counterpart, I think people are forgetting what is really running rampant. Throughout ladder, from my experience, Mega Floette seems to be the most popular choice of Mega with this "unwallable" Mega Greninja nowhere to be seen. I believe that Mega Floette's stats make it broken at its core and even when having its ability nerfed it is still unrealistic to answer and can rather easily bypass its checks.

Good post Sword, I think that you're right but I also think that this isn't 'broken'

Having a disgustingly powerful stat spread, very little can switch into a 95 Base Power STAB move off of a Special Attack of 155 which is only the start of why this Pokémon is so unbearably powerful. Due to how immediately threatening it is, even disregarding Calm Mind, the metagame is seemingly beginning to shift around it with Scizors mostly opting to run Specially Defensive sets as to not die in two hits after having to repeatedly come in. A disgusting combo I've found is to pair Mega Floette with Talonflame which can sit on the only two answers in the tier being Scizor and Excadrill and threaten to burn them which can help Mega Floette even stay in if it needs to and blow through them.

I think that this fails to take into account how it impacts the Floette user to do this, bringing Talonflame and giving the Scizor a U-turn into Greninja/Mega Eel/Lorb Chomp is often even scarier than having to switch into Floette, or hoping that the Excadrill isn't Rock Slide as the metagame shifts to Talonflame. (Yes Talon can wisp Chomp but it would also die to Draco, neutralising Garchomp and removing the Floette's out against Scizor and Excadrill). I think Floette encourages players to try and make more progress than just idle around which is a good skill check and helps the metagame be better.

Another note is that Scizor doesn't need to run SpD. The following calc is incredibly negligible with Roost. And non Roost sets like Choice Band or Swords Dance can still emergency check it alongside Wish support.
0 SpA Floette-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 90-106 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- 6.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think it's important to address why Goodra-Hisui isn't a consistent check here, "consistent check" don't exist against Mega Floette but Goodra-Hisui is so inherently flawed that I don't count it. Due to becoming so much heavier in its Mega form, Mega Floette only takes 80 from Heavy Slam which prevents most sets from doing meaningful damage unless they specifically opt to be physically oriented for Mega Floette, which is a bad idea because you have less bulk for the other threats in the tier and Mega Floette's own Moonblasts. As for Flash Cannon, after a few Calm Minds suddenly your check is overwhelmed which creates a similar situation to the matchup against Slowking-Galar where at +2 Mega Floette is able to use Substitute on you. Paired with Calm Mind and a Special Defense stat considerably higher than Blissey's, it is unrealistic to call any Special Attackers a check. Funnily enough, the most slappable and capable is Greninja's Choice Specs Sludge Wave which can brawl it even after a Calm Mind boost after gaining a resistance to Fairy moves from Protean. This is very hard to switch in however and the Mega Floette user can abuse you being locked in by pivoting to a Steel-type for free progress.

Goodra sets still count as checks even if the move is only 80 BP.
8 Atk Goodra-Hisui Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
8 Atk Goodra-Hisui Heavy Slam (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Floette-Mega: 138-164 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Floette-Mega Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 70-84 (19.2 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Floette-Mega Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Goodra-Hisui: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO (Lefties)
Floette is trading damage terribly, yes it CAN win if Hoodra is forced to keep taking hazards and/or deal with other threats, but this is just standard offensive dynamics. Floette has to actually work hard to find as many entry points to pressure its checks and requires the user to outplay.

Assault Vest Glowking is something you forget to mention: It can afford Modest to ensure that it breaks Floette's Substitute even after 2 Calm Minds, and apply permanant damage with Psychic Noise. This is the longest term check thanks to Regenerator.
Spd invested Skarm is another noteworthy check, can break sub and can Whirlwind whenever Floette comes in. It doesn't outright beat Foette ut it prevents Floette from making progress and gives you more time to make your own progress.

It feels like this Pokémon was made to have no ways to beat it as you constantly have to gamble with its sets, I haven't mentioned it and I know if I don't it'll be brought up so I'll say that Draining Kiss is an incredibly good move choice on this Pokémon and can support you even further in taking down Pokémon you really shouldn't.

I think the most outrageous thing about this Pokémon is that whether you agree it can get through these very few checks isn't even the point, even though it'd be silly to argue against it, it is incredibly powerful and overwhelming beyond that.

As of right now I think this is the Pokémon which needs to be banned most though I haven't seen anyone talking about it surprisingly enough despite having way more usage than Mega Greninja and feeling as if it is on every team at this rate. My reasoning for banning it specifically is that I think its current ability is alright, I feel like unless we give it something useless like Flower Veil (which would just be boring and a Pokémon with these stats isn't something I care to preserve) it'll be just as if not more strong. I've seen the idea of Magic Guard being bounced around and I believe that would only make it stronger.

In conclusion, Mega Floette might just be THE Legend of ZA.

I think Floette is a good offensive Pokemon in the metagame but not truly 'broken', especially after its nerf.

 

[Cuddly]

I fear you didn't read my post which detailed why this doesn't matter in the slightest

>No you see Scizor and Excadrill aren’t answers because Talonflame could burn them!
Needing outside help to just burn 2 specific Pokemon (it’s more like multiple, as you still have Aegslash and Skarmory) already tells the audiance that Mega Floette is far from ban worthy.
Even after being burned, Excadrill and Scizor still threaten Mega Floette too.
252+ Atk burned Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Floette-Mega: 117-138 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb burned Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Floette-Mega: 152-179 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb burned Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Floette-Mega: 302-356 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician burned Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Floette-Mega: 220-261 (62.5 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Simply saying “lol your teammate can just handle its counters” isn’t enough on its own. The Pokemon really needs to be massively threatening and have the counters be less conventual and the teammate also has to effortlessly deal with those counters too.

A Pokemon like Naganadel, for example, followed all those criteria.
Naganadel was fast, got faster when it scored KOs, hit hard, and Z moves let it ignore drawbacks from Draco Meteor while KOing even the bulkiest of Pokemon.
Mega Floette is only really strong with Moonblast/LoR. It’s otherwise pretty easy to deal with. Most teams have some way to threaten it out (usually through those Steel types or with most of the Fire types or Slowking-G or a strong physical attacker) and it can’t threaten a sweep on a whim.
Naganadel had counters, all of which were extremely niche and made your opponent’s team worse.
Mega Floette has counters all most of them are put onto teams anyways because they are all around good Pokemon.
Naganadel could have a teammate handle its counters easily because said counters are pretty bad and all you really needed as Naganadel was for those counters to be chipped enough to be KO’d.
Mega Floette can “technically” have Talonflame deal with those counters (besides like Slowking-G and those fire types, only the Steel types), but best case scenario against a competent opponent is them procing Flame Body though luck. Even in such scenarios, it’s not like Mega Floette is 100% safe from Scizor/Excadrill either. Even a Max physical bulk spread still allows Excadrill to OKHO you after a Sword Dance. Scizor isn’t OHKOing you but is still dealing a ton of damage.

Not to mention that both sides have 6 Pokemon. It’s kind of unfair to claim a Pokemon is broken because it can win a 2v1 fight in its favor.

Also stuff I said about Naganadel also applies to Mega Greninja. It’s massively threatening, its counters are pretty bad, and said counters can easily be dealt with.

 

[Bobnotdog]

I'm having a bit of trouble team building in this tier so I just thought it would best to come here and ask how I would fix/change by mega starmie team https://pokepast.es/d1b6d6b747bcfb68