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Pet Mod Legends Z-A OU
- Thread starter dhelmise
- Start date
Idk
Without custom abilities or overlapping with my Mega Eelektross suggestion, I don't see that as a possibility. No Hidden Power really hurt Manectric and Electric types in general. There is a reason why only one Electric is OU in this Petmod, which had to have a custom ability too.
Better question is WHY do we have to buff Mega Manectric specifically. Lots of bad Megas why does Manectric need this over others.
after spending a whole day playing ladder ive come to the conclusion that mega greninja is possibly the most annoying to play against pokemon ever
i enjoy the metagame but i seriously consider quitting every time i go against one
i enjoy the metagame but i seriously consider quitting every time i go against one
I'm just gonna tell you to wait for DLC because there's quite a few mons that are gonna cause mega gren some issues but yes, the mon is annoying
I know Dhelmise said that theres more on the ability removal coming soon, but I'm impatient and stupid, so can someone explain how "custom abilities are really annoying to keep up with"? I dont rly mind the change, just wanna understand. Like is it annoying because you now feel like you have to make customs for the new mons and thats a lot of work? Or do custom abilities have some extra work behind them after theyre already made and implemented? Does someone here that has worked with custom abilities in the past know this? Just curious, not critical.
Also thanks for all the work thats going into this. Imo its a really fun meta.
Also thanks for all the work thats going into this. Imo its a really fun meta.
How is it hard to keep up with? I understand not knowing exactly how the ability works but can't you just look at the first list if it's an ability that is out of the norm? It was fun theory-crafting with the mons + some are going to just be unusable (Like Malamar, that poor thing is never going to be able to do anything). Plus I feel like this is just going to ruin the point of the entire Pet mod.
I think people need to stop having the expectations that every mega needs to do something. Mega houndoom was the least used mega last month (even less than bums like Glalie and Abomasnow) when it has on paper, usable spatk and decent speed. Same line of reasoning with people wanting mega manectric buffed. In the grand scheme of things, that mon isn't getting buffed officially or unofficially. Accept some mons are just gonna be ass and pray for a UU or smth.
Also, the whole point of this pet mod is to have traditional battling with the ZA dex, akin to BDSP or LGPE, using the new megas. Unlike those two metas, we don't have ability data so we have to do some guesswork, preferably with existing abilities and not customs that GF realistically wouldn't make so the point of the pet mod being "ruined" makes little sense
due to the popularity of this petmod, theres a wider audience to consider when making changes. Custom abilities initially would help give perceived weak megas a chance to shine, but none of the abilities really "made" any megas i.e. they didnt help enough, and for some cases their effects werent obvious unless you looked them up on the builder, such as Ion Battery and Leader of the Pride (being Mega Pyroar's old ability, which is Orichalchum Pulse but for Special Attack). And most abilities are probably not that hard to code since its just copy pasting existing code and modifying some bits and pieces to make the ability work.
For example, Luchador's Pride, Mega Hawlucha's ability, would of taken the code of Moxie, but change the boost from Attack to Speed, likely being just one line of code. However this didnt even help Mega Hawlucha because, even though it appreciated the speed boosts, it would much rather focus on making itself stronger since its already pretty fast.
Therefore, its logical to remove Luchador's Pride and replace it with the much more appropiate ability Stamina, because then it could become an extremely dangerous Body Press user akin to Archuladon in SV.
Most if not all of these custom abilities have either been unrealistic, insanely overtuned, very boring, or a combination of the three. The point of the project is to playtest the new mega evolutions first and foremost. A part of this is trying to accurately predict what abilities they could have. This seems to be lost on some people who I presume are more used to petmods such as Megas For All and Eeveemons where the premise is a "melting pot" with just tolerating most if not all submissions. While that's fine for those tiers, it's rather detrimental if the point is a sense of realism.
This is particularly concerning when it comes to attempting to "save" mons that are we are not obligated to make viable to begin with. Not every Mega is going to cut it in an OU environment, so forcing unremarkable mons like Mega Malamar and Pyroar to be so via crackpipe abilities or stacking pre-existing abilities under a new name only hinders the concept. Please take notice that a lot of these custom abilities that are championed are actually cancerous as hell. Mega Malamar straight up only exists to ruin the ladder experience with teams like Malamar Semi-Stall as it has no hope of ever being consistent but not weak enough to dissuade its use as a luck / matchup fisher. Mega Floette consistently just sits on everything and aggressively suffocates opponents when paired with stuff like Talonflame or just independently. Mega Eelektross has no consistent switch-ins and very few direct offensive checks with only 2 mons that can hit it for super effective (Zygarde-10% and Excadrill).
Now although some custom abilities suggest seem realistic and lore accurate enough, they are "hard to keep up with" in the sense of taking the risk of making sure they are actually functional and balanced on release is one not worth taking if Dhelmise is forced to make fixes after the fact or have their time wasted when the ability can't be salvaged. Dhelmise does not have infinite time as the sole programmer.
Should also be noted for those concerned about the PetMod experience being ruined, council has never been obligated to entertain any submission in this thread. This is because with no formal submissions (something pointed out since day one), submissions are actually mere suggestions in actuality. Dhelmise's announcement is a courtesy that we will no longer be entertaining custom ability suggestions or making ones behind the scenes.
tossing in my two cents! be nice to me I WILL cry at you if you are mean
: Gale Wings, launching off priority Hurricanes or Air Slashes is very funny and I feel it makes more sense than the lore-tethered Magearna-tied Soul-Heart
: Levitate or Swift Swim!! some Megas are already just 'base Pokemon but bigger' e.g. TTar, Scizor, Latis, so I don't see much reason why Eelektross couldn't have Levitate, but it is worth noting the fake Eelektrik help Eelektross stabilize itself while swimming and that could be very cool
: Scrappy bc when I think of sword and shield Pokemon I think of Sirfetch'd and also Intimidate immunity is cool
: Guts / Rough Skin, felt of all the abilities they had access to these would make the most sense, Dragon's Maw admittedly rubs me the wrong way and Strong Jaw is NOT doing shit on a Pokemon with two biting moves
, 
, 
: Mentioning these guys bc even though Mega Audino should have had Regen and Mega Ampharos struggles to make use of Mold Breaker and Sharpness didn't exist when Mega Gallade was a thing, we ought to revert them back to what they had before if we're cracking down on abilities
: Stamina very much agree I was very surprised to see this guy didn't have it
: Fluffy / Fur Coat? I know it sounds strange and it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't lose Drought but the dex entry mentions how it swings its mane to protect its allies and that is a pretty big mane Idk
: Defiant, said to be as feisty as ever, Shed Skin is still very much a viable option tho
edit:
: I forgor abt this guy, Analytic perhaps? Starmie's got it, not particularly slow, would be a good power buff for Malamar and it could still get off Superpower buffs from Contrary in its base
: Gale Wings, launching off priority Hurricanes or Air Slashes is very funny and I feel it makes more sense than the lore-tethered Magearna-tied Soul-Heart: Levitate or Swift Swim!! some Megas are already just 'base Pokemon but bigger' e.g. TTar, Scizor, Latis, so I don't see much reason why Eelektross couldn't have Levitate, but it is worth noting the fake Eelektrik help Eelektross stabilize itself while swimming and that could be very cool: Scrappy bc when I think of sword and shield Pokemon I think of Sirfetch'd and also Intimidate immunity is cool: Guts / Rough Skin, felt of all the abilities they had access to these would make the most sense, Dragon's Maw admittedly rubs me the wrong way and Strong Jaw is NOT doing shit on a Pokemon with two biting moves, , : Mentioning these guys bc even though Mega Audino should have had Regen and Mega Ampharos struggles to make use of Mold Breaker and Sharpness didn't exist when Mega Gallade was a thing, we ought to revert them back to what they had before if we're cracking down on abilities: Stamina very much agree I was very surprised to see this guy didn't have it: Fluffy / Fur Coat? I know it sounds strange and it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't lose Drought but the dex entry mentions how it swings its mane to protect its allies and that is a pretty big mane Idk: Defiant, said to be as feisty as ever, Shed Skin is still very much a viable option thoedit:
: I forgor abt this guy, Analytic perhaps? Starmie's got it, not particularly slow, would be a good power buff for Malamar and it could still get off Superpower buffs from Contrary in its baseI feel like Sheer force would still be a better option for Gatr, I don't know if with Life orb in base hits harder but I do know it gains more physical bulk so I think that would be a somewhat decent improvement/side-grade
Me personally I would give it Prankster, may or may not be the best but I think it could work.
I think sheer force would work for Mega-nite, despite what others have said, may or may not be too broken but I think it could work?
For abilities my suggestions would be the following.
Triage / Natural Cure
Loosely based of the core concept of the Ange (gifting of Eternal Life), It should still have abilities based off healing. Triage has a more offensive approach, being a very great response against some of those wacky Dragons and the elusive Greninja since Draining Kiss coming off a 155 Special Attack stat hits like a truck against those sweepers and breakers. Natural Cure is a more defensive lean, acting as a proto-blob of sorts with its utility movepool and special bulk. Being able to absorb paralysis is a great differentiator to its competitor Clefable.
Storm Drain
I'm going to be different from a lot of the Electricity-based suggestions and suggest more something aquatic. Storm Drain essentially will be trading the Ground immunity of base Eelektross for a Water-immunity for another Greninja and Starmie soft check and to be a really strong Scald and Thunder Wave absorber against the Slowtwins. Also dissuades Volcanion from just brainlessly clicking Steam Eruption for free. And for people worried about the power drop with no Ion Battery you have a way to get it back, just have to put some work in for your broken clicker now.
Sheer Force / Mold Breaker
Really mediocre sweeper in general so I think Sheer Force giving it added power to overwhelm Clefable and Slowbro (via Iron Head and Throat Chop respectively) gives it nice compensation. Mold Breaker can play a slightly similar role but more focused towards it being able to go through Dragonite and Clefable.
Defiant
This can now be a great option to fit on webs teams as a form of removal punishment. Also lets Hawlucha bypass Aegislash's King Shield without having to play the Mind Games. Salamence and Krookodile's Intimidate were also annoying for it so this is still helpful. Stamina can also work but I think it doesn't actually do anything significant and I much prefer it having Defiant because of how its release trailer went.
Beast Boost / Magic Bounce
Now I don't actually think its going to get Beast Boost but the ability semi-fits with it being based off an eldritch horror. Beast Boost should give it a more HO lean when compared against Hoopa Unbound (who can't actually snowball) and its a lot more flexible than having just Contrary (Speed Boosting Beast Boost + Bulk Up, Fat Stored Power Stuff, Fast Stored Power, Nasty Plot, etc). Magic Bounce also gives Malamar a more defensive role since it can now deny Spikes from Skarmory which again differentiates it from Hoopa Unbound.
Pressure / Toxic Debris
Pressure is meant to synergize with its toolkit of being an annoying fat guy with Knock, Sludge Bomb, Strength Sap, Encore, Toxic Spikes, etc. Toxic Debris, with more direct results, can also do this and is probably more obvious but Pressure is my #twocents.
Grassy Surge
Rillaboom is what this metagame needs. People annoyed over Greninja and whatever random HO Gremlin can just click Grassy Glide! Fairly strong fat-breaker with its impressive stats and offensive movepool. When I look at Mega Chesnaught being given defensive abilities I'm genuinely just thinking "I would rather just have base Chesnaught and a different Mega". So now its unique enough to not be considered a side-grade option.
Triage / Natural CureLoosely based of the core concept of the Ange (gifting of Eternal Life), It should still have abilities based off healing. Triage has a more offensive approach, being a very great response against some of those wacky Dragons and the elusive Greninja since Draining Kiss coming off a 155 Special Attack stat hits like a truck against those sweepers and breakers. Natural Cure is a more defensive lean, acting as a proto-blob of sorts with its utility movepool and special bulk. Being able to absorb paralysis is a great differentiator to its competitor Clefable.
Storm DrainI'm going to be different from a lot of the Electricity-based suggestions and suggest more something aquatic. Storm Drain essentially will be trading the Ground immunity of base Eelektross for a Water-immunity for another Greninja and Starmie soft check and to be a really strong Scald and Thunder Wave absorber against the Slowtwins. Also dissuades Volcanion from just brainlessly clicking Steam Eruption for free. And for people worried about the power drop with no Ion Battery you have a way to get it back, just have to put some work in for your broken clicker now.
Sheer Force / Mold BreakerReally mediocre sweeper in general so I think Sheer Force giving it added power to overwhelm Clefable and Slowbro (via Iron Head and Throat Chop respectively) gives it nice compensation. Mold Breaker can play a slightly similar role but more focused towards it being able to go through Dragonite and Clefable.
DefiantThis can now be a great option to fit on webs teams as a form of removal punishment. Also lets Hawlucha bypass Aegislash's King Shield without having to play the Mind Games. Salamence and Krookodile's Intimidate were also annoying for it so this is still helpful. Stamina can also work but I think it doesn't actually do anything significant and I much prefer it having Defiant because of how its release trailer went.
Beast Boost / Magic BounceNow I don't actually think its going to get Beast Boost but the ability semi-fits with it being based off an eldritch horror. Beast Boost should give it a more HO lean when compared against Hoopa Unbound (who can't actually snowball) and its a lot more flexible than having just Contrary (Speed Boosting Beast Boost + Bulk Up, Fat Stored Power Stuff, Fast Stored Power, Nasty Plot, etc). Magic Bounce also gives Malamar a more defensive role since it can now deny Spikes from Skarmory which again differentiates it from Hoopa Unbound.
Pressure / Toxic DebrisPressure is meant to synergize with its toolkit of being an annoying fat guy with Knock, Sludge Bomb, Strength Sap, Encore, Toxic Spikes, etc. Toxic Debris, with more direct results, can also do this and is probably more obvious but Pressure is my #twocents.
Grassy SurgeRillaboom is what this metagame needs. People annoyed over Greninja and whatever random HO Gremlin can just click Grassy Glide! Fairly strong fat-breaker with its impressive stats and offensive movepool. When I look at Mega Chesnaught being given defensive abilities I'm genuinely just thinking "I would rather just have base Chesnaught and a different Mega". So now its unique enough to not be considered a side-grade option.
Mega Pidgiot usage go up to kill diet Rillaboom on steroids with a slight breeze /j
Rillaboom is what this metagame needs. People annoyed over Greninja and whatever random HO Gremlin can just click Grassy Glide! Fairly strong fat-breaker with its impressive stats and offensive movepool. When I look at Mega Chesnaught being given defensive abilities I'm genuinely just thinking "I would rather just have base Chesnaught and a different Mega". So now its unique enough to not be considered a side-grade option.
yah upon hearing that I think Sheer Force is better bc Mega Nite is trying to kill you as quickly as possible
I think it’s because it makes teambuilding harder for someone coming in.
Honestly thought this only applied to Corrosive, which was changed.
You couldn’t easily find out that Corrosive was buffed to be a Poison type Scrappy without going onto the forums or found out randomly.
My other guess, which is more likely, is the DLC is going to bring a bunch of new Megas and the people in charge don’t want to deal with people coming up with all the OC Donutsteel abilities.
For abilities my suggestions would be the following.
Loosely based of the core concept of the Ange (gifting of Eternal Life), It should still have abilities based off healing. Triage has a more offensive approach, being a very great response against some of those wacky Dragons and the elusive Greninja since Draining Kiss coming off a 155 Special Attack stat hits like a truck against those sweepers and breakers. Natural Cure is a more defensive lean, acting as a proto-blob of sorts with its utility movepool and special bulk. Being able to absorb paralysis is a great differentiator to its competitor Clefable.
I'm going to be different from a lot of the Electricity-based suggestions and suggest more something aquatic. Storm Drain essentially will be trading the Ground immunity of base Eelektross for a Water-immunity for another Greninja and Starmie soft check and to be a really strong Scald and Thunder Wave absorber against the Slowtwins. Also dissuades Volcanion from just brainlessly clicking Steam Eruption for free. And for people worried about the power drop with no Ion Battery you have a way to get it back, just have to put some work in for your broken clicker now.
Really mediocre sweeper in general so I think Sheer Force giving it added power to overwhelm Clefable and Slowbro (via Iron Head and Throat Chop respectively) gives it nice compensation. Mold Breaker can play a slightly similar role but more focused towards it being able to go through Dragonite and Clefable.
This can now be a great option to fit on webs teams as a form of removal punishment. Also lets Hawlucha bypass Aegislash's King Shield without having to play the Mind Games. Salamence and Krookodile's Intimidate were also annoying for it so this is still helpful. Stamina can also work but I think it doesn't actually do anything significant and I much prefer it having Defiant because of how its release trailer went.
Now I don't actually think its going to get Beast Boost but the ability semi-fits with it being based off an eldritch horror. Beast Boost should give it a more HO lean when compared against Hoopa Unbound (who can't actually snowball) and its a lot more flexible than having just Contrary (Speed Boosting Beast Boost + Bulk Up, Fat Stored Power Stuff, Fast Stored Power, Nasty Plot, etc). Magic Bounce also gives Malamar a more defensive role since it can now deny Spikes from Skarmory which again differentiates it from Hoopa Unbound.
Pressure is meant to synergize with its toolkit of being an annoying fat guy with Knock, Sludge Bomb, Strength Sap, Encore, Toxic Spikes, etc. Toxic Debris, with more direct results, can also do this and is probably more obvious but Pressure is my #twocents.
Rillaboom is what this metagame needs. People annoyed over Greninja and whatever random HO Gremlin can just click Grassy Glide! Fairly strong fat-breaker with its impressive stats and offensive movepool. When I look at Mega Chesnaught being given defensive abilities I'm genuinely just thinking "I would rather just have base Chesnaught and a different Mega". So now its unique enough to not be considered a side-grade option.
I think Triage should be given to Mega Mega
252 SpA Triage Meganium-Mega Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 314-372 (110.1 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Greninja needs at least max HP and a +spd nature to avoid the OHKO, and thats only if the Meganium isnt +spa itself.
meanwhile Mega Floette
252+ SpA Triage Floette-Mega Draining Kiss vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 246-290 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Triage Floette-Mega Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Greninja-Mega: 244-288 (85.6 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
If Mega Floette doesn't run a +SpA nature, it always 2HKO's, so im still partial to Fairy Aura Mega Floette. I know in the example you said regular Greninja and not Mega Greninja, but my point is if you want a Greninja check through priority heal moves, Mega Mega
252+ Atk Greninja-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 314-370 (108.6 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Greninja needs to be max attack +atk nature to OHKO no defense or HP Floette, and Floette usually runs max HP anyway
252+ Atk Greninja-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Floette-Mega: 286-338 (81.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Greninja-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Floette-Mega: 314-370 (89.2 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Meganium, no matter what, gets OHKO'd by max attack Mega Greninja Gunk Shot
252+ Atk Greninja-Mega Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meganium-Mega: 364-432 (100 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So again, Fairy Aura, imo, would be great here. Although Natural Cure wouldnt be half bad.
I'm kind of into the idea of Storm Drain given im a VGC player, but the main issue with Storm Drain Mega Eel is that most Water types run from Mega Eel anyway, and i'd rather give Mega Eel something a bit more unique then doubling down on its generally favorable Water type matchups in the tier. While the case against Mega Starmie is tempting, I think its better to have a conversation about whether Mega Starmie should be in OU first once the DLC drops. Earth Eater makes the most sense, since its a direct upgrade to Levitate except against Spikes/TSpikes and still retains its identity of "no weaknesses"
...eugh, not another Mold Breaker mega. I just dont see Mega Falinks being viable with Mold Breaker, since it leaves it vulnerable to Intimidate and doesn't do well into any much else other then Dragonite or Clefable. While the Dragonite/Clefable matchup is nice, Its not worth risking the matchup into Intimidate users, Talonflame, or even the various Magic Bounce users in the tier. Mega Ampharos did nothing with Mold Breaker so we changed it despite attempting to keep changes to existing megas minimal, and Mega Excadrill isn't viable with the ability either, despite being faster, hitting harder and having arguably better offensive typing.
And Sheer Force, while being better, is quite wasteful, since it doesnt even boost any of its STABS aside from Focus Blast. Boosting coverage is nice, but Mega Falinks at the very least needs to be immune to Intimidate. Even if you want to argue on whether Intimidate is a factor for its viability or not, we have
(while Falinks does beat it, its also possible to slow pivot into it), 
, 
, , and 
. And if we ever decide to bring back Hidden Power, 
also exists. So i think Defiant or at least Mirror Armor is a much better idea. mainly because Defiant can punish Defog and Parting Shot, while Mirror Armor reflects Intimidate, which really sucks for all of the above except Manectric.Stamina would make it an excellent setup sweeper with Bulk Up + Brave Bird and Body Press as if it was a double dancer. it can use Roost to heal any damage and Taunt to deal with Aegislash and anything else that likes to spam status moves on it. forcing opponents to attack it, which is exactly what Stamina wants. It also means Intimidate is less impactful, since Krook keels over to Body Press and Salamence has to run Hurricane to OHKO it unless its specially bulky.
Beast Boost is hella cooking, wouldnt like Magic Bounce tbh, we already have 3 magic bounce megas
im uh... not sure about the whole "annoying fat guy" thing with 80/85/95 given Pressure, Toxic Debris would make more sense since at least then it can help its teammates.
While i do agree Rillaboom would immensely improve the metagame, I think Dauntless Shield would actually give it an interesting playstyle as an endgame cleaner. You can keep Chesnaught in its base form for Bulletproof, then mega later in the game when you want to clean up with Body Press.