Serious LGBTQ+

Mellow

she so bad i let her touch my butt
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I have lesbian mothers. I don't talk about it too much publicly unless you really know me. However on Smogon I am open to people asking me questions about being raised in a gay family. Feel free to sate your curiosity, if you have any. Also I am a male.
are you adopted
 

cookie

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hope this fits here:

why was gender dysphoria reclassified to be no longer a mental illness? and how does one explain the incredibly high suicide rate of the trans community? i feel like putting it all down to society not accepting them as much as other groups isn't a good enough explanation, considering high it really is - 45%.
I undeleted this post because I read it and it got me interested enough to read up about this.

The WHO reclassified gender dysphoria as a sexual illness, rather than a mental one. What this means is that the emphasis on what is broken has shifted from the mind to the body. If your goal as a health organisation is to keep people as healthy as possible, this shift makes sense because it's easier to resolve the inconsistency between mind/body by lopping off some tits and or sew on a dick (or even deal with the chemical changes of hormone therapy) than to successfully change someone's mind with drugs/therapy.
 

vonFiedler

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I undeleted this post because I read it and it got me interested enough to read up about this.

The WHO reclassified gender dysphoria as a sexual illness, rather than a mental one. What this means is that the emphasis on what is broken has shifted from the mind to the body. If your goal as a health organisation is to keep people as healthy as possible, this shift makes sense because it's easier to resolve the inconsistency between mind/body by lopping off some tits and or sew on a dick (or even deal with the chemical changes of hormone therapy) than to successfully change someone's mind with drugs/therapy.
I think these are fine and educational points, but really the biggest problem with that original post is the transphobic language, and seemingly, intent behind it. "They must be mentally ill, they kill themselves."

I don't want to step on your toes in public, but if I didn't put it nicely, someone else would have put it much more severely (and already has).
 

Mellow

she so bad i let her touch my butt
is a Pre-Contributor
I think these are fine and educational points, but really the biggest problem with that original post is the transphobic language, and seemingly, intent behind it. "They must be mentally ill, they kill themselves."

I don't want to step on your toes in public, but if I didn't put it nicely, someone else would have put it much more severely (and already has).
yeah looking back on it it was a bit of a loaded question - i apologise, my views have shifted now. i am genuinely curious why the suicide rate is so high though
 
Because society shits on trans people so fucking much. Society is fucking hostile to trans people, and if you were to keep getting battered over and over by that hostility (doesn'tneed to be physical, but can often be that as well), suicide is gonna become a pretty tempting way to just fullyl escape from having to endure any more pain
 

Mellow

she so bad i let her touch my butt
is a Pre-Contributor
Because society shits on trans people so fucking much. Society is fucking hostile to trans people, and if you were to keep getting battered over and over by that hostility (doesn'tneed to be physical, but can often be that as well), suicide is gonna become a pretty tempting way to just fullyl escape from having to endure any more pain
yeah but like isn't it higher than any other group in history? like they get a lot of shit but im not sure if that explains all of it. also like isn't there some ambiguity to whether bullying actually raises suicide rates by a large margin?
ill do some more research in my own time, but i feel this is probably gonna clog up the thread if it goes on any longer

edit from the future: yikes
 
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Aurella

Autumn Priestess
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OK a big thing that needs to be understood about any DSM diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria is that its inclusion in the manual is pretty necessary for insurance purposes. It's not exactly enough to tell your insurance company "I'd like to make a series of personal changes to sort out life-long physical incongruences with my gender!!" - Insurance companies need a "name", a diagnosis of what they're to throw money at.

Another popular misunderstanding is that transgenderism (RE:Gender Dysphoria) is a mental illness; the DSM labels the 'distress' aspect of gender dysphoria as the mental illness, not the innate identity and experience of being transgender. That's a major nuance that's lost unfortunately on most of the public, thanks to (imo) right-leaning YouTube and TV pundits looking to make crowd-pleasing cheap shots rather than seriously coming to understand a complex sensitive topic.
 

Aurella

Autumn Priestess
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yeah but like isn't it higher than any other group in history? like they get a lot of shit but im not sure if that explains all of it. also like isn't there some ambiguity to whether bullying actually raises suicide rates by a large margin?
ill do some more research in my own time, but i feel this is probably gonna clog up the thread if it goes on any longer
You would really be wasting your time if you really try to look for a.... 'digestible' answer to that... especially due to antiquated anti-trans propaganda still much-circulated around related to trans suicide/rates. If you really want to research, learn about LGBT+ youth homelessness, the struggles and life experiences of trans (or just lgbt) individuals. You simply can't understand a people by trying to understand their math; look into their lives and your understanding will transform into something more profound than statisticians' meager ruminations.





Because society shits on trans people so fucking much. Society is fucking hostile to trans people, and if you were to keep getting battered over and over by that hostility (doesn'tneed to be physical, but can often be that as well), suicide is gonna become a pretty tempting way to just fullyl escape from having to endure any more pain
I fucking love your siggy LOL.
 

Ampharos

a carefully cultivated anarchy
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fair warning: there is virtually 0 chance of this post being anything resembling coherent and it doesn't really have a point beyond venting

In April, I came out as nonbinary in online communities. Sometime over the summer (June, maybe? I don't remember exactly) I came out to my SO and close friends. Since that time I've made a big deal about pronouns etc and just generally made it a big part of my identity.

The other day I was talking to a cis friend about gender shit, and he asked me specifically about nonbinary identity, and as I was explaining the concept to him I found myself having to stretch weirdly far to justify identifying as nonbinary rather than just being transgender. I found that it basically boiled down to "uhhh transitioning is scary and complicated and I kinda don't need that in my life and also I don't experience that much physical dysphoria" except I thought I didn't experience any physical dysphoria at all until I started growing my hair and shaving my legs and generally wishing I could do more.

So maybe I'm just trans. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. And if I AM just trans then on top of all the issues I'd have to deal with as far as transitioning and shit like that I'd also have to like... re-come out, and get everyone on that new pronoun game, and shit like that, and probably have to explain like 500 times why I didn't just do this from the beginning, and even then I STILL don't know if it would be the right thing to do wrt my identity because honestly brain machine's fuckin broke and idk what to think anymore

I definitely identify more as feminine than as masculine but I'm not sure I know to what extent anymore. Shit's rough.
 

sandshrewz

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fair warning: there is virtually 0 chance of this post being anything resembling coherent and it doesn't really have a point beyond venting

In April, I came out as nonbinary in online communities. Sometime over the summer (June, maybe? I don't remember exactly) I came out to my SO and close friends. Since that time I've made a big deal about pronouns etc and just generally made it a big part of my identity.

The other day I was talking to a cis friend about gender shit, and he asked me specifically about nonbinary identity, and as I was explaining the concept to him I found myself having to stretch weirdly far to justify identifying as nonbinary rather than just being transgender. I found that it basically boiled down to "uhhh transitioning is scary and complicated and I kinda don't need that in my life and also I don't experience that much physical dysphoria" except I thought I didn't experience any physical dysphoria at all until I started growing my hair and shaving my legs and generally wishing I could do more.

So maybe I'm just trans. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. And if I AM just trans then on top of all the issues I'd have to deal with as far as transitioning and shit like that I'd also have to like... re-come out, and get everyone on that new pronoun game, and shit like that, and probably have to explain like 500 times why I didn't just do this from the beginning, and even then I STILL don't know if it would be the right thing to do wrt my identity because honestly brain machine's fuckin broke and idk what to think anymore

I definitely identify more as feminine than as masculine but I'm not sure I know to what extent anymore. Shit's rough.

It's good to rant :) I can't relate to what you're saying for the most part, but confusion to some degree is pretty much guaranteed. Not many people can easily identify as x/y/z or whichever label from the get go. It takes time, experimentation, some more thinking before one usually can comfortably identify under any category.

The identities, be it gender, sexual, etc are just that. Identities for convenience, for other people to understand. But it doesn't define who people are. Doesn't matter if you can or cannot find comfort in an identity. All that matters is that you feel yourself, and you do what you're comfortable with or what you want. So yea, don't be too hard on yourself for being uncertain of your identity. Sometimes you think one thing then feel another. Ultimately, as long as you're happy is all that matters. Don't let the other edge of identities trouble you :)

I don't know if anything I say resonates with you but we're here to be a listening ear when you need it. Hopefully I managed to bring some comfort >_> All the best Walrein/Ampharos! :D
 
i mean, you can be both non-binary and trans. it's not an uncommon thing from what I can recall, and the people who try and say otherwise are pretty much just gatekeepy truscum assholes who should just shut up and be ignored anyway. Of course, it also depends on whetehr you would be comfortable with labeling yourself as trans, which is the most important thing here. If you do feel like the label fits you, then use it. If it doesn't, then don't use it.

oh, and also, not experiencing a lot of physical dysphoria doesn't exclude you from being trans. it's not like some fucked up misery contest where you need to be this misreable in order to be considered trans, and again, anyone who tries and psuh that are generally shitty fucking people.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
I think a lot about how damaging the messaging is on trans people coming to terms with their gender. It’s inherently become like an almost ridiculous suffering pissing contest where you need to be a certain amount of miserable about your assigned gender in order to access that good shit gender you super want. We’ve wrapped it up like this to help cis people understand and accept us but really it should be “I need to transition because it will make me a happier more full person”. Unfortunately we’ve fought hard for the level of acceptance we’ve gotten so far and it’s hard to let go of “I need to transition or else I’ll kill myself” because it’s been immensely effective in terms of getting us what we need from people who don’t want to give it to us. But in our inability to let it go we’re causing inadequacy problems for baby trans people who see people in immense suffering being made the poster children and can’t relate but are still the same amount of trans.

Being trans is about being the gender we want/need to be not about the unique suffering of pretending to be a gender we aren’t.
 

Aurella

Autumn Priestess
is a Pre-Contributor
fair warning: there is virtually 0 chance of this post being anything resembling coherent and it doesn't really have a point beyond venting

In April, I came out as nonbinary in online communities. Sometime over the summer (June, maybe? I don't remember exactly) I came out to my SO and close friends. Since that time I've made a big deal about pronouns etc and just generally made it a big part of my identity.

The other day I was talking to a cis friend about gender shit, and he asked me specifically about nonbinary identity, and as I was explaining the concept to him I found myself having to stretch weirdly far to justify identifying as nonbinary rather than just being transgender. I found that it basically boiled down to "uhhh transitioning is scary and complicated and I kinda don't need that in my life and also I don't experience that much physical dysphoria" except I thought I didn't experience any physical dysphoria at all until I started growing my hair and shaving my legs and generally wishing I could do more.

So maybe I'm just trans. Or maybe I'm just overreacting. And if I AM just trans then on top of all the issues I'd have to deal with as far as transitioning and shit like that I'd also have to like... re-come out, and get everyone on that new pronoun game, and shit like that, and probably have to explain like 500 times why I didn't just do this from the beginning, and even then I STILL don't know if it would be the right thing to do wrt my identity because honestly brain machine's fuckin broke and idk what to think anymore

I definitely identify more as feminine than as masculine but I'm not sure I know to what extent anymore. Shit's rough.

OK if you are having to "stretch" things at all to justify your personal experience/identity to someone (especially cis-het) then I can't help but sense something inappropriate about that conversation. It's fine to field questions (or not to) when you're okay with that, but if someone's questions are leading towards "okay but why aren't you this, instead of that?" then that's inappropriate.

You should feel safe enough in the times you describe your identity to be able to clearly state your experience and your personal self-understanding (even if it's just to say there are parts you're clear about, and other parts aren't so clear yet) without playing Twister or Limbo and end up coming to some conclusion you came up with as a digestible explanation that is truly unfaithful to how you feel inside

^^^^^ So maybe none of this occurred at all in your conversation, but I just felt it a worthwhile gentle reminder to anyone reading this that if you're answering questions, that you are the one in control. You shouldn't have to bend and produce unfaithful self-explanations of your experience to palate ignorance, or to feel that you real, even if it feels simpler to do so in order to feel like you are worth that person's understanding and love.

RE: Gender Dysphoria Aspects

I see a lot of confusion about this from many circles, but basically, gender dysphoria isn't exclusive to transgender individuals, nor is it a one-size-fits-all litmus test of transgender identity or reality. Gender dysphoria at its simplest is the dissonant experience of physical dysphoria (sex-characteristics: hair, chin size, or w/e), and or a social dysphoria (how your gender is perceived and related to by others compared to your own experience of it).

Individuals from all walks of life (LGBT+ and those outside of it) can experience gender dysphoria, but for those who are not Transgender (or who do identify as such yet) the experience of gender dysphoria is most commonly a purely physical phenomenon (although there is overlap).

For example, a man (regardless of his sexual preference or identity) could experience intense dysphoria over his facial hair. as that secondary sex-characteristic interferes with his sense of feminine gender expression. That experience of dysphoria does not unequivocally indict him to accept and proclaim a transgender identity.

Conversely, a Transgender individual doesn't have to experience or claim any specific type of dysphoria (or any dysphoria at all) to proclaim a trans identity.

For most transgender individuals, the overwhelming personal variables and aspects of gender dysphoria lead them to that realization and conclusion of their transgender experience and identity. Those dysphoric aspects were guiding clues to a bigger picture, not something that destined them to be transgender simply because they didn't like having leg hair.

I'm sorry if this was confusing, but I feel that complicated questions can't always co-exist with uncomplicated answers, but I hope this helped in some way.

I agree tho with what Sandshrewz had to say.

Understanding of who you are comes with pieces and time, and sometimes all at once. Don't burden yourself so much with trying to demand a simple, digestible answer that answers to everything of your experience in its entirety. Because no matter how much peace that might seem to offer right now, you are cheating yourself if you refuse the patient journey that guides you to that understanding.

Don't fear the things that should be enjoyed.
 
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Aurella

Autumn Priestess
is a Pre-Contributor
I think a lot about how damaging the messaging is on trans people coming to terms with their gender. It’s inherently become like an almost ridiculous suffering pissing contest where you need to be a certain amount of miserable about your assigned gender in order to access that good shit gender you super want. We’ve wrapped it up like this to help cis people understand and accept us but really it should be “I need to transition because it will make me a happier more full person”. Unfortunately we’ve fought hard for the level of acceptance we’ve gotten so far and it’s hard to let go of “I need to transition or else I’ll kill myself” because it’s been immensely effective in terms of getting us what we need from people who don’t want to give it to us. But in our inability to let it go we’re causing inadequacy problems for baby trans people who see people in immense suffering being made the poster children and can’t relate but are still the same amount of trans.

Being trans is about being the gender we want/need to be not about the unique suffering of pretending to be a gender we aren’t.

That's a hard thing to really address in the world when a lot of that, I feel, is rooted in the medical system's necessitation of transgender "suffering" to qualify one for necessary treatment in the first place. Whether there's a "pissing contest" or not, there's undeniably a long road ahead for the world's understanding of and healing for transgender lives.
 
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Ampharos

a carefully cultivated anarchy
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OK if you are having to "stretch" things at all to justify your personal experience/identity to someone (especially cis-het) then I can't help but sense something inappropriate about that conversation. It's fine to field questions (or not to) when you're okay with that, but if someone's questions are leading towards "okay but why aren't you this, instead of that?" then that's inappropriate.

You should feel safe enough in the times you describe your identity to be able to clearly state your experience and your personal self-understanding (even if it's just to say there are parts you're clear about, and other parts aren't so clear yet) without playing Twister or Limbo and end up coming to some conclusion you came up with as a digestible explanation that is truly unfaithful to how you feel inside

^^^^^ So maybe none of this occurred at all in your conversation, but I just felt it a worthwhile gentle reminder to anyone reading this that if you're answering questions, that you are the one in control. You shouldn't have to bend and produce unfaithful self-explanations of your experience to palate ignorance, or to feel that you real, even if it feels simpler to do so in order to feel like you are worth that person's understanding and love.
I feel I should clarify, because there's a nonzero chance the person I was speaking to sees this thread and I don't want him to feel like any of this is his fault.

The question that was prompted to me was a pretty simple "talk me through nonbinary identity because I'm not sure I 100% get it", which I think is a fair thing for someone who's cisgendered to be curious about. All the following justifications were entirely internal and self-imposed because I typed out my explanation in one giant block and as I was typing it I slowly started realizing "heyyy uh dude it kinda just sounds like you're trans" so I tried to include a section on why nonbinary and not just MtF and it wasn't exactly the most convincing thing I've ever read.

I really appreciate the concern but this little existential crisis of mine is entirely self-inflicted.

also thanks @ everyone who replied, appreciate the thoughtful words a lot. still have no idea what the fuck my monkey brain's doing but we'll workshop it
 
#1 how do you respond to your mom jokes
#2 (serious) does it affect your life, really? is it just something quirky about you or does it play a bigger role in your life?

just curious. i know one person irl with 2 dads and he doesn't really tell people from what i've seen. not sure if he minds it though.
I don't tell many people unfortunately about my moms, but I've definitely met resistance from people who have known. Now that I'm an adult however I feel like I may be more open to talking about it. Adults are (generally) more mature and less judgemental about differences than kids are.
Other than the social impact, having two same sex parents hasn't effected me developmentally. I've always felt well taken care of and well loved. Probably more so than if I had a father. Honestly I'm not even interested in having a father, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I like being the sole male presence in my household and having a male above me would have increased expectation/pressure/etc. My moms have tried to introduce older male role-figures into my life (I think for developmental sake) but I've never been excited in getting to know them or particularly fond of the idea.
Currently in life I am focused on getting a degree and becoming independent. My ultimate goal is financial independence while having a general positive impact on the people and world around me. Also one day I will have to support my moms as they age.
 
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Wow, just found this thread recently. A decent amount of people already know this, or at least the second half, I guess, but I'll out myself anyway.

My journey with LGBTQ+ began early in 9th grade, about 2 years ago. I was exploring the Internet (like basically everyone else) when I came across some LGBT discussions. I knew I wasn't into guys sexually, so I wasn't gay or bisexual. But I also wasn't sexually attracted to females, so I wasn't straight. After digging further despite all the "it's just not time yet"s, I discovered asexuality. After pondering it for a while, I found that I was "mildly" asexual - that is to say, I don't experience physical attraction or actively desire... sexual stuffs.

I stopped thinking about it much afterwards, though, as it didn't make much of an impact on my daily life. Soon after, however, I found a more interesting revelation. I had been reading a lot about transgender people and overall gender diversity throughout all of the 9th grade. It wasn't until the summer between 9th and 10th before I actually applied it to myself, however. Through a lot of difficulty and the help of several friends on PS, I discovered myself. I am transgender. I am female.

This discovery was not without its difficulties. I am not traditionally very feminine, much unlike other transgender girls and women. On top of that, my autism made it difficult to understand my own emotions. With time, I figured it out through a method even I cannot explain.

I luckily live in Northern California. With heavy support from my real life family and friends, as well as my PS family and friends, I have survived and lived to tell this tale.

Thanks for reading.
 

brightobject

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question: do u guys think the term "heteroflexibility" has value? OR is it really just a smokescreen for repressed bisexuals etc etc
 

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