Metagame LGPE OverUsed

New player.

Got a jolly mew on cartridge. Suggestions for a wifi level 50 build?

Instinct was a stealth rock build, a taunt build, or a bulk up build.

Thanks in advance.
 
Surf is for the mon we were just discussing!
Dazzling Gleam has no effect whatsoever on the Alakazam matchup really, Shadow Ball is scarier as it hits Mew harder but Snorlax will take anything Zam can do to it regardless.
Thanks !

Well it just hits Dragonite, but even Psychic would destroy him at +1 so it's w/e, yeah. And I meant CM+Psychic+Shadowball+Dgleam, I personally prefer running this than Recover on something that takes more than 50% from almost anything. Mbe I'm using it wrong tho.


Wondering, is Mew more popular as a set-up sweeper or the more supportive build on Showdown ?
 
Thanks !

Well it just hits Dragonite, but even Psychic would destroy him at +1 so it's w/e, yeah. And I meant CM+Psychic+Shadowball+Dgleam, I personally prefer running this than Recover on something that takes more than 50% from almost anything. Mbe I'm using it wrong tho.


Wondering, is Mew more popular as a set-up sweeper or the more supportive build on Showdown ?
Gleam is Zam’s typical 4th move so it can hit AMuk, Recover was popular earlier in the meta but has been declining in usage for the reason you said - Zam is really too frail to make the most effective use of it and would rather use free turns for CM.

NP Mew seems to be gaining popularity due to its excellent coverage and bulk allowing it plenty of opportunities to set up and take chunks out of the opposing team, but supportive sets are still common. It’s pretty flexible owing to its huge movepool and all around decent stats so just use it for what your team needs.
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Pre-Contributor
I prefer going for Recover over DGleam for the following reasons:
-It hits Muk-A yes, but I am nonethless not staying against it anyways unless it's at like 15% HP.
-With CM, I can 1v1 almost all special attackers, e.g. 3 Attacks + CM Starmie
-Can heal on predicted switch-ins.

It is frail yes, but only physically, CM allows it to deal better with special attacks.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
eMFay threw it away by switching out Mega Gyarados against last Pokemon Mew, switching in a sleeping Melmetal to allow Mew free setup on the guaranteed sleep turn. Both players made mistakes (no idea why Zapdos didn't U-Turn instead of switching directly to Eevee?), and this battle is anecdotal evidence in any case. Mew sus may happen, but this battle doesn't add anything to the debate.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
If you're going to seriously use Parasect, at least run a Jolly nature to outspeed Melmetal. Beingfast enough to Spore the most common Pokemon in the metagame is at least a unique niche. I've seen a few Parasects on Showdown, but it's really disappointing when my Melmetal is faster.

Spore/Stun Spore/Leech Seed/Leech Life is worthy of D rank. It survives a hit from Mega Gyarados and Jolly Parasect is faster than paralysed neutral speed variants. It also survives an unboosted Psychic from Mega Alakazam and always KOs with Leech Life after Stealth Rock, which would be hilarious to witness.

ETA: apparently C- is the new D rank, and all ranks are inflated in comparison to older generational rank definitions, which explains why I think a lot of Pokemon are currently ranked too highly.
 
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If you're going to seriously use Parasect, at least run a Jolly nature to outspeed Melmetal. Beingfast enough to Spore the most common Pokemon in the metagame is at least a unique niche. I've seen a few Parasects on Showdown, but it's really disappointing when my Melmetal is faster.

Spore/Stun Spore/Leech Seed/Leech Life is worthy of D rank. It survives a hit from Mega Gyarados and Jolly Parasect is faster than paralysed neutral speed variants. It also survives an unboosted Psychic from Mega Alakazam and always KOs with Leech Life after Stealth Rock, which would be hilarious to witness.

ETA: apparently C- is the new D rank, and all ranks are inflated in comparison to older generational rank definitions, which explains why I think a lot of Pokemon are currently ranked too highly.

Parasect is usually better served by going second. Spore being 100 means that he can take an attack and leech seed or sub on the next turn, guaranteed. Nothing melmetal commonly carries can OHKO Parasect if rocks aren't up.

That said, melmetal isn't something I'd use Parasect on. It's better suited for things that can't deal more than 50-75% damage to it. The turn order is usually to spore first, then sub, then leech seed, then spore againx2. Unless you get a 1-turn sleep, you can basically grind the opponent into a spot where they're forced to swap while you have a sub up. The mon they send in gets seeded, and you can bring in a counter.

That said, relying on at least a 2 turn sleep and not being able to sleep multiple pokemon make this less effective on showdown.


TL;DR - those players are bringing a cart strategy to showdown
 

Ryota Mitarai

Shrektimus Prime
is a Pre-Contributor
I agree that Zapdos should rise to S rank, but I think it should have been explained somewholy why so. So I will do it instead:

S rank is often reserved for Pokemon that define the meta in some way and are over-centralizing. Zapdos is just an over-centralizing mon, even if we don't realize it. Here's what I mean:

-Zapdos is the main reason why Melmetal runs Ice Punch (some could say they run it for Dnite/Exeggutor-A but really you run it for Zapdos)

-Zapdos is the main reason why people slap Ground-types on their teams (the only other relevant Electric-type is Electrode).

-Some people run Dugtrio-A or Nidos for Zapdos check simply because stuff like Rhydon dislike switching into Toxic or being hit by it behind a Substitute

There are probably more examples that are more niche, but I think these are the main points that should be addressed.

On top of that, Zapdos possesses Electric, which is arguably becoming one of the best types in meta, considering the only relevant Grass mon is Venusaur, which can be hit by the rarer Drill Peck. Thunderbolt hits like a truck (there's probs a better word) just on neutral damage and at this point, people just swap Zapdos on their teams, because: a) There's no reason not to, considering the amount of utility it brings to any team b) It fits on any team with no problems. While hitting like a truck, Zapdos is easily capable of stalling things 1v1, especially burned physical users like Muk-A with SubRoost. Not to mention the amount of mons it outspeeds.

tl;dr Zapdos is arguably one of the best mons right now (seeing that it is also the most used mon as a whole from the usage statistics). There's practically no reason to not slap Zapdos on your team due to its splashability, the utility it brings and the not-so-high amount of checks that exist in the metagame. Thus I would highly support a rise to S rank.
 
Mega Gyarados should be mentioned somewhere in notes. It 1v1s everything there but Zapdos. Zapdos can't switch in because it's 2hkoed. Might want to consider bold mew to actually wall/possibly 1v1 it if you hit wilo and get no defense drops. I understand your strategy is to wilo and then uturn to metal but that means your mew loses ~45% to crunch and metal loses ~22 to eq and their gyara is still at good health and can facade later.

0+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Mew: 77-91 (44 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO
0+ Atk Mold Breaker Gyarados-Mega Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 85-100 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
 

Rag

"aaaaaaaahhhh!"
Decided to give this meta a try yesterday (or the day before yesterday, don't really remember). Took some time to adjust to new damage calcs coming from a candy meta but ended up 13th on the ladder in the end. Found the most success with an offensive core of Mew/Alakazam, and since I'm not sure if I want to continue I'll just go ahead and offer my team as a sample.

Mew
Ability: Synchronize
Level: 50
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Mega Drain
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Poliwrath
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Happiness: 70
Impish Nature
- Superpower
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
Happiness: 70
Sassy Nature
- Crunch
- Mega Drain
- Fire Blast
- Toxic

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

Golem
Ability: Rock Head
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Explosion

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
Happiness: 70
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic

Mew wears down A-Muk/Snorlax, everything else should put Melmetal near KO range from a +1 MZam. That's usually enough to win the game unless I mistakenly attempt to set up my Zam on a TWave Starmie or something and get paralyzed in the process.

Jolly Golem can outspeed Mega Drain A-Muk which speeds up the match a whole lot. Explosion is also nice to get a free switch to Mew/Zam but also deals a lot of damage. Using A-Muk on my own since it often comes down to MZam speed ties and it prevents MGar from getting a kill each time it enters the battlefield.

As for Mew's moveset, I found this to cover the most. It's a decent check for Cloyster and hits Zapdos/Dragonite/MGyara/Melmetal. Shadow Ball could be nice to kill MZam after SR but unless I'm at +4 it can just CM once to win, at which point Mega Drain already wins assuming I'm reasonably healthy.

A bit weak to QuakeSlide, Nidos and ATrio can be annoying but overall it's a very consistent team.
 
Every time you use uturn something has to switch into gyarados. If your going from Mew to Zapdos both are going lose half of their health. From there, you cant go into Gengar because burned crunch can 1hko. So a third mon needs to take dmg (metal). If Gyara is punching holes in half your team thats what its supposed to do, not sweep. Having another mon that can 1v1 or even switch in on non crunch is better than doing 1% more to AMuk with uturn.

I don't see what you are gaining by not running bold. You aren't getting better matchups and the things you want to uturn the most on (Gyara, Muk, Aero, Snorlax) you are actually worse off against. Even other uturn targets like Starmie, Mew and Zam you would be better off running calm or timid. MZam could care less about the extra 5% you are doing. I get slow uturn can be cool, but many of the things you're saying you get into range of are very arbitrary (zapdos that wants to roost just because it got burned?). Most of these can also be done by bold. Quirky accomplishes nothing and is worse than bold, timid, and arguably calm
 
You gave no calcs. You posted four scenarios. Two of which were unchanged by bold. The other two relied on either not getting burned vs starmie or zapdos roosting the second turn out when it should have only taken burn damage. I don't see why these scenarios are better than taking less damage from all physical attacks and having a better matchup vs mew's no1 threat.

Quirky mew is an unset, last I'm talking about it pce.
 

Ezaphs

We never knew what we had
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Will there be a ladder in the future with suggested move sets in true Smogon fashion? Or is this thread it?
There's already a ladder, so not sure what you mean there, but analyses will be coming as soon as we think we're ready!
 
Reactions: Lyd
LGPE OU Speed Tiers
All Speeds assumed 31 IV unless otherwise noted.
Made by Kris

Tier 0 (Fastest to >+Spe Base 109)

314 / Dodrio / 110 / +Spe / +2
276 / Arcanine / 95 / +Spe / +2
266 / Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / +2
252 / Arcanine / 95 / Neutral / +2
220 / Dragonite / 80 / Neutral / +2
216 / Cloyster / 70 / +Spe / +2
205 / Aerodactyl-Mega, Alakazam-Mega / 150 / +Spe / 0
199 / Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / +1
181 / Aerodactyl, Gengar-Mega / 130 / +Spe / 0
180 / Omastar / 55 / +Spe / +2
169 / Alakazam, Pikachu-Starter / 120 / +Spe / 0
164 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / +2
163 / Persian-Alola, Starmie / 115 / +Spe / 0
157 / Dodrio, Gengar, Raichu-Alola, Tauros / 110 / +Spe / 0


Tier 1 (+Spe Base 109 to >+Spe Base 76)

156 / Ninetales-Alola / 109 / +Spe / 0
151 / Rapidash / 105 / +Spe / 0
145 / Charizard-Mega-X, Charizard-Mega-Y, Mew, Ninetales, Zapdos / 100 / +Spe / 0
139 / Arcanine / 95 / +Spe / 0
133 / Moltres, Venomoth / 90 / +Spe / 0
132 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / 0
129 / Hitmonlee / 87 / +Spe / 0
127 / Articuno, Nidoking / 85 / +Spe / 0
126 / Arcanine / 95 / Neutral / 0
122 / Gyarados, Gyarados-Mega / 81 / +Spe / 0
121 / Dragonite, Kabutops, Venusaur-Mega / 80 / +Spe / 0
118 / Blastoise-Mega / 78 / +Spe / 0
117 / Raticate-Alola / 77 / +Spe / 0


Tier 2 (+Spe Base 76 to >-Spe Base 78)

116 / Nidoqueen / 76 / +Spe / 0
114 / Eevee-Starter / 75 / +Spe / 0
111 / Gyarados, Gyarados-Mega / 81 / Neutral / 0
110 / Dragonite, Venusaur-Mega / 80 / Neutral / 0
108 / Cloyster, Poliwrath / 70 / +Spe / 0
107 / Blastoise-Mega / 78 / Neutral / 0
105 / Nidoqueen / 76 / Neutral / 0
104 / Eevee-Starter / 75 / Neutral / 0
102 / Sandslash, Sandslash-Alola / 65 / +Spe / 0
99 / Poliwrath / 70 / Neutral / 0


Tier 3 (-Spe Base 78 to everything slower)

97 / Blastoise-Mega / 78 / -Spe / 0
93 / Sandslash, Sandslash-Alola / 65 / Neutral / 0
90 / Machamp, Omastar / 55 / +Spe / 0
88 / Clefable / 60 / Neutral / 0
82 / Machamp, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 0
77 / Chansey, Muk-Alola / 50 / Neutral / 0
71 / Exeggutor-Alola, Golem / 45 / Neutral / 0
69 / Muk-Alola / 50 / -Spe / 0
66 / Rhydon / 40 / Neutral / 0
59 / Melmetal / 34 / Neutral / 0
55 / Slowbro-Mega / 30 / Neutral / 0

Where is Electrode in the Spe list?
 

Ezaphs

We never knew what we had
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
has anyone made mega-slowbro work consistently? and what reliably checks starmie and mega-venusaur?
Mega Slowbro is best used as a tank, seeing as it doesn't have much luck pulling its weight as a setup sweeper in the current meta. It's possibly the best switchin to Melmetal which is pretty valuable, so it definitely has merit.

Starmie, as most offensive Psychic types are, is checked defensively by Alolan Muk and Snorlax. Zapdos can take a hit and retaliate with Thunderbolt, as can Pokés like Mega Gyarados. Mega Gengar, Alakazam and Beedrill all offensively check Starmie very well. There are more examples, but I don't feel like listing absolutely everything.

Mega Venusaur is checked best by hitting it hard, and by things that can heal off Leech Seed. Examples include Mega Alakazam, Mew, Zapdos to some extent, Dragonite and other such mons. The main thing is Mew, which will easily deal with any set that doesn't have Toxic and also happens to be extremely popular.
 
Mega Slowbro is best used as a tank, seeing as it doesn't have much luck pulling its weight as a setup sweeper in the current meta. It's possibly the best switchin to Melmetal which is pretty valuable, so it definitely has merit.

Starmie, as most offensive Psychic types are, is checked defensively by Alolan Muk and Snorlax. Zapdos can take a hit and retaliate with Thunderbolt, as can Pokés like Mega Gyarados. Mega Gengar, Alakazam and Beedrill all offensively check Starmie very well. There are more examples, but I don't feel like listing absolutely everything.

Mega Venusaur is checked best by hitting it hard, and by things that can heal off Leech Seed. Examples include Mega Alakazam, Mew, Zapdos to some extent, Dragonite and other such mons. The main thing is Mew, which will easily deal with any set that doesn't have Toxic and also happens to be extremely popular.
Mega Gengar is an interesting check to Mega Venusaur as well. It can come in on a Mega Drain, throw up a sub to block Leech Seed, and fire off at least two free attacks as Mega Drain or Sludge Bomb won't break the sub.
 
Hey Everyone, it's been a very, very long time since I've played any Pokémon (2008...) but Let's Go has dragged me in a little. However, being out of the game for a little while means that the first few match ups I've tried haven't yielded much success, unfortunately.

Reading through this thread and the limited online sources for teams have made that I've "built" a basic team (on Switch) of Aerodactyl, Zapdos, Alakazam, Muk-A, Gyarados and Melmetal but I'm struggling a little with certain things.

I'm leaning towards Nidoqueen instead of Aerodactyl because other Zapdos, but to be honest I'm struggling with other Zapdos', as well as Melmetal and funnily enough, the huge number of Mewtwo that are in play. I'm told that Muk-A is THE mew two check, but he dies easily.

What tips and strategies would you recommend? And what nature/set for a Nidoqueen? I'm assuming you'd want EQ/Stealth Rock and some poison on it?
 
I run Jolly Nidoqueen, which lets me outspeed (with varying relevance/importance) Neutral Blastoise, +Spe Poliwrath, +Spe Victreebel, +Spe Magneton, +Spe Cloyster, Neutral Veusaur, Neutral Dragonite, Neutral Gyarados, +Spe Eevee, and speed ties Neutral Nidoking.
I have Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Toxic, and Super Fang / Protect.

I'm partial to Nidoqueen and poison types in general, but as a Zapdos counter, I've found Alolan-Dugtrio to be good in that role, with Earthquake, Toxic, Sucker Punch, Rock Slide / Stealth Rock, while also checking psychic types.

Honestly, I've started quitting during team preview when I see a Mewtwo as I don't want to keep playing against them. A fun play against unprepared Mewtwo players is +SpDef Tentacruel with Mirror Coat, it baits out and lives every Psychic from Mewtwo, Mega Mewtwo X, and lives 50% of Psychics from Mega Mewtwo Y, KOing in return.
 
Hey Everyone, it's been a very, very long time since I've played any Pokémon (2008...) but Let's Go has dragged me in a little. However, being out of the game for a little while means that the first few match ups I've tried haven't yielded much success, unfortunately.

Reading through this thread and the limited online sources for teams have made that I've "built" a basic team (on Switch) of Aerodactyl, Zapdos, Alakazam, Muk-A, Gyarados and Melmetal but I'm struggling a little with certain things.

I'm leaning towards Nidoqueen instead of Aerodactyl because other Zapdos, but to be honest I'm struggling with other Zapdos', as well as Melmetal and funnily enough, the huge number of Mewtwo that are in play. I'm told that Muk-A is THE mew two check, but he dies easily.

What tips and strategies would you recommend? And what nature/set for a Nidoqueen? I'm assuming you'd want EQ/Stealth Rock and some poison on it?
Mewtwo can't just be chipped at with SE moves, you need 2 sure fire counters or more. Or a whole team of checks. Especially if you lose a mon to the obscurish X Two. Just the Meta man.

1) Snorlax with Selfdestruct and 2) Gyarados with 87.5%+ Crunches are up their with 3) Muk for Y2 counters. 4) Electrode Foul play, looking at these Japanese teams and my own results with this C possibly B mon, is able to switch in once on the Mega Psychic after rocks and typically not die. Then 5) Mew who has 1 turn to status because he lives the Shadow Ball after Rocks. Twave is good anti Mewtwo strats imo. These are you 5 switches. Don't consider Chansey imo. Have 2 or 3 of these... Probably 3 because of Surprise X.

And only Y2 counters Bulk Up X2 so GL. Mew is somewhat of a switch however usually has to come in after a KO because of Mega mind games. Same as above one turn to status. X2 doesn't exactly like Zapdos or Strong special moves but surely there are obscure (or classic/basic?) Two sets that beat Zappy. He is team bulk though, which you seem to have. Consider Thunderwave on yours maybe since it can ruin a Mewtwo entirely.

For 1v1s (I think we call these checks nowadays)
Aerodactyl with Wing Attack/Crunch combination lol and Mega Beedrill are there. Zam Shadow Ball damage rolls I am not sure about though perhaps you are using Mega too early?

See if it's X or Y with Melmetal first unless Muk is appropriate to sac. When revealed you have Zam Shadow Balls for X and Gyarados Crunches for Y. Foul Play will do more damage to Mewtwo and force him on the offensive, over Crunch.

I've almost lost my Mewtwo to Clefables in X and Outrages in Normal form but I was running Recover and still won just maybe do consider it for future teams. Having a strat like Twave Clef or Zap could allow some lower mons to come in if you get creative but not consistently. Option B is stats. Overall stat totals are key in this game (580 plus).


Re: Melmetal. There are like 15 Melmetals on Cart all from Taiwan or some shit. I X2 through them free so I am not the guy to be ranking him in any list or making one about him other than one that says "other Ubers who are free to Mewtwo" and still I hate that thing. It's like a Mega. Gyarados+Zapdos are the only 2 with the balls to chip imo so add the secret Fire Blast to Muk maybe and make sure you're packing EQ on your team heavily.


For Zapdos, add Snorlax, who is also a Mewtwo counter, over Alakazam since statistically he doesn't cut it in a 600 level Meta game unless he Megas, and all of your Megas hate Zapdos. If the team is too physical keep your Zam and rotate him in match to match, maybe even over Melmetal but now you are Dragon weak unless you play on point with Aerodactyl. Then again there's no Dragon Dance in this game so...

Zapdos/Gyarados/Muk/Aerodactyl/Melmetal/Snorlax (a bit X2 weak but what isn't)
Or
Zapdos/Gyarados/Muk/Nido/Alakazam/Snorlax(Dragon weak/no Steel? )

If you add a Nido make it Megahorn/EQ/? King and go all out +rocks but +Def sounds nice for Queen.


tl;dr Your team looks okay tho but your stat totals are kinda eh with 3 megas competing for the slot. Add Snorlax. Eitherway we are all weak to X2 w/o Y.
 

Ezaphs

We never knew what we had
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
I'm leaning towards Nidoqueen instead of Aerodactyl because other Zapdos, but to be honest I'm struggling with other Zapdos', as well as Melmetal and funnily enough, the huge number of Mewtwo that are in play. I'm told that Muk-A is THE mew two check, but he dies easily.
I personally wouldn't bother preparing for Mewtwo; there's no obligation for playing out the games versus it and nothing punishing you for leaving, so I'd recommend just doing that and not ruining your team to deal with it.
 

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