I was thinking about this, and I completely agree. Electric is a dangerous type for the user now, especially in Rain teams. You don't want to try to hit Starmie with Tbolt, just for Zapdos to switch in and get a special attack boost. Azumarill and Zeburaika can abuse Herbivore in rain teams, but they aren't nearly as potent as Zapdos is. Also, with Power whip you can SE on Wash Machine Rotom and 4x SE on Swampert, Omastar, and Kabutops which are scary if they go unchecked. Gyrados does counter a completely Phys Licki quite well, especially with Intimidate, where as Tbolt could do wonders against Gyra and Intimidate would do nothing on a Spec Licki.
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Lickilicky
- Thread starter RaRaRabbit
- Start date
I was thinking about this, and I completely agree. Electric is a dangerous type for the user now, especially in Rain teams. You don't want to try to hit Starmie with Tbolt, just for Zapdos to switch in and get a special attack boost. Azumarill and Zeburaika can abuse Herbivore in rain teams, but they aren't nearly as potent as Zapdos is. Also, with Power whip you can SE on Wash Machine Rotom and 4x SE on Swampert, Omastar, and Kabutops which are scary if they go unchecked. Gyrados does counter a completely Phys Licki quite well, especially with Intimidate, where as Tbolt could do wonders against Gyra and Intimidate would do nothing on a Spec Licki.
I completely agree. This is exactly why I don't think its a good idea to stick purely as a special or physical attacker. A special variation needs to at least mix a little bit for powerwhip, and a physical variation at least needs to mix a little for ice beam or fire blast.
Regrettably, as you said, the lack of thunderbolt will give gyarados a walling advantage. BUT, grass is much more potent against water types than electric will ever be.
The one thing we can say for sure here about licki is his move pool is vast and he can cover pretty much everything depending on his moveset. Build him according to what you want to take out or what you find more of a threat. Thunderbolt for Gyarados, Power whip for those pesky ground/waters or fear of volt absorbers.
For the most SAFE choice of moves for coverage, you HAVE to mix. I would go with:
Flamethrower/Fireblast
Surf/Ice beam
Powerwhip
Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
Here's something cool:
And yes my name is Bieber on PO.
Battle between Bieber and Cloviz started!
Tier: Wifi
Rule: Unrated
Cloviz sent out Nattorei!
Bieber sent out Venomoth!
Start of turn 1
Venomoth used Sleep Powder!
The foe's Nattorei fell asleep!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 2
Venomoth used Substitute!
Venomoth made a substitute!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 3
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 4
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
The foe's Nattorei woke up!
The foe's Nattorei used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Bieber's team!
Start of turn 5
Venomoth used Sleep Powder!
The foe's Nattorei fell asleep!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 6
Cloviz called Nattorei back!
Cloviz sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 7
Venomoth used Baton Pass!
Bieber called Venomoth back!
Bieber sent out Lickilicky!
Pointed stones dug into Lickilicky!
Lickilicky has Cloud Nine!
The foe's Politoed used Encore!
But it failed!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 8
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Politoed lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Politoed fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Dragonite!
Start of turn 9
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
The foe's Dragonite lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Dragonite fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Nattorei!
Start of turn 10
Lickilicky used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!
The foe's Nattorei lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Nattorei fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Burungeru!
Start of turn 11
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Burungeru lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Burungeru fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Kingdra!
Start of turn 12
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
The foe's Kingdra lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Kingdra fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Kabutops!
Start of turn 13
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Kabutops lost 69% of its health!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
The foe's Kabutops used Waterfall!
Lickilicky's substitute faded!
The foe's Kabutops is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 14
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Kabutops lost 20% of its health!
The foe's Kabutops fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Bieber won the battle!
Tier: Wifi
Rule: Unrated
Cloviz sent out Nattorei!
Bieber sent out Venomoth!
Start of turn 1
Venomoth used Sleep Powder!
The foe's Nattorei fell asleep!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 2
Venomoth used Substitute!
Venomoth made a substitute!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 3
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 4
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
The foe's Nattorei woke up!
The foe's Nattorei used Stealth Rock!
Pointed stones float in the air around Bieber's team!
Start of turn 5
Venomoth used Sleep Powder!
The foe's Nattorei fell asleep!
The foe's Nattorei is fast asleep!
Start of turn 6
Cloviz called Nattorei back!
Cloviz sent out Politoed!
The foe's Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
Venomoth used Butterfly Dance!
Venomoth's Sp. Att. rose!
Venomoth's Sp. Def. rose!
Venomoth's Speed rose!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 7
Venomoth used Baton Pass!
Bieber called Venomoth back!
Bieber sent out Lickilicky!
Pointed stones dug into Lickilicky!
Lickilicky has Cloud Nine!
The foe's Politoed used Encore!
But it failed!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 8
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Politoed lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Politoed fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Dragonite!
Start of turn 9
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
The foe's Dragonite lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Dragonite fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Nattorei!
Start of turn 10
Lickilicky used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!
The foe's Nattorei lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Nattorei fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Burungeru!
Start of turn 11
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
It's super effective!
The foe's Burungeru lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Burungeru fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Kingdra!
Start of turn 12
Lickilicky used Thunderbolt!
The foe's Kingdra lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Kingdra fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Cloviz sent out Kabutops!
Start of turn 13
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Kabutops lost 69% of its health!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
The foe's Kabutops used Waterfall!
Lickilicky's substitute faded!
The foe's Kabutops is hurt by its Life Orb!
Rain continues to fall!
Start of turn 14
Lickilicky used Ice Beam!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Kabutops lost 20% of its health!
The foe's Kabutops fainted!
Lickilicky is hurt by its Life Orb!
Bieber won the battle!
And yes my name is Bieber on PO.
I figured DroughtTales and DrizzleToad are going to be uber, or OU at least. No way they're getting into UU unless... The magical magic peoples who make the tiers decided to throw them in there?
Also I'm curious to see what other weather sweepers a scarfed licki can outspeed + KO. =3.
If anything, UU will have Vulpix, Abomasnow and the hippos...
I think he was referencing Lickilicky as UU, not DroughtTales and DrizzleToad. But you're definitely right in saying that they probably won't be in the lower tiers. And for scarfed Licky, it's sort of trolled. Max speed EVs and a +-speed nature ScarfLicky hits 327 speed, which is outsped by Max speed Timid Ninetales by one point. However, Lickilicky can outspeed any non-scarfed Politoed and hit it pretty hard, too.
Welcome to Smogon!
I wouldn't bet on Hippowdon being UU. It's not a top weather setter, but it can still be highly useful. I also have some doubt about Abomasnow based on some observations a while ago, but I haven't been battling much since then, so maybe things have changed.
I'm sure Vulpix will see plenty of use for sun, but as for sand, it just doesn't have good offensive abusers in UU. Hail might be used with Kyurem and some other things, but there's only so much you can do with it. While weather (especially sun) will certainly be a presence in UU, I think it's safe to say that it will be a far simpler matter than it is in OU right now, and therefore much more reasonable to counter specifically rather than generally.
But it is bulky enough to take an unboosted hit from Ninetales, right? One thinks an EQ from Licky can KO it.
Thanks! I've been following it for a while now and figured it was worth becoming a part of.
Well, besides Cloud Nine, Lickilicky also has STAB Explosion.
I pulled off an Audino sweep using Venomoth in Random Matchup, which is always pretty cool.
And I want to use this guy as a weather counter since I don't like lolGolduck or Altaria much, but I don't know whether it's best to go fully Special or to go mixed with Power Whip/Explosion.
Vulpix will be banned from UU I GUARANTEE. I specialize in Sun and there's just no way Drought won't be banned in UU once UU exists.
Emboar, Exeggutor, and every Chlorophyll Pokemon except maybe Venusaur, Lilligant, & Whimsicott are in UU. Sun is countered by Dragons & Heatran and unless Altaria or Druddigon get popular, all those counters are OU.
I don't know how many of you have played the PO Server's UU a few months ago, which included LATIAS, but Sun was just THE most broken thing in that UU. It was exactly like Swift Swim in early OU except FAR worse because you'd have to run Rain Dance, Hail, or Sandstorm to change the weather. Or Abomasnow, but if you're running Hail, you get trucked over by Sun teams anyway. (and just lol @ Hippopatas who has NO use outside of Sand, Stealth Rock, & Roar)
Vulpix itself isn't even dead weight. It can run a Scarf hitting 376 Speed and use Hypnosis, Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, Grudge, Safeguard, Confuse Ray, Charm, and Disable to become a total hit & run dick after it gets Sun up.
But this is Lickilicky's thread. And I have to ask...why use Lickilicky? Aside from being able to hit Ferrothorn with a full-power Fire Blast in Rain, I can't see ANY reason to use him.
works on moveset i personally favor is:
Cloud 9
impish/careful
leftovers
4hp/252def/252sp def
toxic
protect
curse
gyro ball
great stall ability and great power on gyro ball after a curse
Cloud 9
impish/careful
leftovers
4hp/252def/252sp def
toxic
protect
curse
gyro ball
great stall ability and great power on gyro ball after a curse
I've always enjoyed Curse + Gyroball with Lickilicky, but I think you can throw another move in with protect for another option. Substitute could definitely fit in there as a replacement.
Haha. I have this on ALL my teams that aren't weather based, and it can sweep! Work Up is insane for mixed sets! The thing that hurts this though is BRELOOM. That's why I run Lum Berry.
Would a mixed scarf licky be viable? I mean, this thing's got a huge movepool. You figure it's gotta have one or two attacks that can ohko Excadrill, and maybe a few other ones to KO other popular weather sweepers. Since Weather's so big this gen, Licky with a scarf could be used as a counter to weather sweepers, right?
i dont think scarf would work i mean although i does have a hug movepool unless its a double super effective attack i doubt it could get the ko
Its funny you should bring up the mixed scarf set.... because I was just going to add one the other day, but got distracted and stopped doing it.
The biggest issue with scarf is that you can not OHKO the weather starters. It's way too hard. In fact, here are some calcs...
Scarf+Naughty Lickilicky
252 Speed, 128 Atk, 128 SpAtk
Earthquake vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 36%-43%
Powerwhip vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 43%-51%
Brick Break vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 54%-64%
Surf vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Tyranitar: 30%-35%
Powerwhip vs 0HP, 0Def, Hippowdon: 39%-46%
Surf vs 0HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Hippowdon: 37%-44%
Earthquake vs 252HP, 0Def, Ninetales: 57%-68%
Surf vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Ninetales: 35%-41%
Power Whip vs 252HP, 0Def, Politoed: 62%-74%
Thunderbolt vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Politoed: 31%-37%
Fire Blast vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Abomasnow: 91%-107%
As you can see, the only weather starter you're going to be (possibly) OHKOing with a Scarf is Abomasnow. Whats worse is that you pretty much fail to 2hko, even WITH stealth rock on some of them. And mind you, all of these have 252 HP, and are not invested in any defense at all, and all of them have neutral natures. Most likely you would be doing LESS than the above mentioned damage.
One last major con to a mix scarf is that you take away a lot from your bulk. A lot. Failing to OHKO a tyranitar means he is going to kill you. Politoed will toxic you OR deal 85%-95% back to you with hydropump.
------
A special attacking scarf set with a 252 speed and a Modest nature would make Lickilicky faster than +speed nature +252 speed pokemon with base 80 speed. This gives you as much power as possible and lets you out speed all the starters (except ninetales) unless they are scarfed.
But even then, you're STILL only doing about 47% to Politoed with thunderbolt. 45% to Tyranitar with surf. 56% to Hippowdown with Surf.
Also, timid+scarf Lickilicky 252SpAtk, 252Speed... outspeeds Excadrill, yet fails to OHKO excadrill with surf. Would do about 52% (estimating). Which I am sure, an Excadrill will ohko back with a +2 Earthquake.
The biggest issue with scarf is that you can not OHKO the weather starters. It's way too hard. In fact, here are some calcs...
Scarf+Naughty Lickilicky
252 Speed, 128 Atk, 128 SpAtk
Earthquake vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 36%-43%
Powerwhip vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 43%-51%
Brick Break vs 252HP, 0Def, Neutral Tyranitar: 54%-64%
Surf vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Tyranitar: 30%-35%
Powerwhip vs 0HP, 0Def, Hippowdon: 39%-46%
Surf vs 0HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Hippowdon: 37%-44%
Earthquake vs 252HP, 0Def, Ninetales: 57%-68%
Surf vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Ninetales: 35%-41%
Power Whip vs 252HP, 0Def, Politoed: 62%-74%
Thunderbolt vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Neutral Politoed: 31%-37%
Fire Blast vs 252HP, 0SpDef, Abomasnow: 91%-107%
As you can see, the only weather starter you're going to be (possibly) OHKOing with a Scarf is Abomasnow. Whats worse is that you pretty much fail to 2hko, even WITH stealth rock on some of them. And mind you, all of these have 252 HP, and are not invested in any defense at all, and all of them have neutral natures. Most likely you would be doing LESS than the above mentioned damage.
One last major con to a mix scarf is that you take away a lot from your bulk. A lot. Failing to OHKO a tyranitar means he is going to kill you. Politoed will toxic you OR deal 85%-95% back to you with hydropump.
------
A special attacking scarf set with a 252 speed and a Modest nature would make Lickilicky faster than +speed nature +252 speed pokemon with base 80 speed. This gives you as much power as possible and lets you out speed all the starters (except ninetales) unless they are scarfed.
But even then, you're STILL only doing about 47% to Politoed with thunderbolt. 45% to Tyranitar with surf. 56% to Hippowdown with Surf.
Also, timid+scarf Lickilicky 252SpAtk, 252Speed... outspeeds Excadrill, yet fails to OHKO excadrill with surf. Would do about 52% (estimating). Which I am sure, an Excadrill will ohko back with a +2 Earthquake.
I'm looking to use this guy on my non-weather team to neutralize other weather teams, and I was looking and thinking of going with a mixed work-up set, but I was wondering from someone who uses him, what would be the best partners/strategies to use with likilicky, and does he do well as an anti-weather poke?
Eh. I guess Scarf's not the way to go with this guy. It's cool that it outspeeds all of them but I feel bad wasting that bulk and it's not strong enough to take 'em down. It's a shame =3. If it just had a little more in one of those attack stats then it could've done some good as an anti weather pokemon in OU. Eh.
Well, how bulky does this thing get? I mean it's not that strong. I want to use it but I don't want it to get torn apart either. Can it actually work as anything other than setup fodder for weather sweepers?
trick room with curse lickilicky is kinda uber mean maybe the likes of dusclopes@(evolite) would be a nice teammate he sets ups trick room hits them with will-o-whisp or another status (maybe gravity too) then switches out i think this might be more of a double battle pair but i think it works well
Heres a good licklilickly set i came up with. (BTW: sorry for the racist remark. I was referring to the Taliban not muslims)
Turban Anyone?
~Swords Dance
~Explosion
~Return
~Aqua Tail
Item Attached: Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs and Nature:
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) Swords Dance gives Lickilicky ridiculous power. Its Attack grows to huge levels, which really makes Explosion a threat. As in, OHKOing 99% of the game threatening. Yeah, that's pretty impressive for a Pokémon in the NU tier. Return is Lickilicky's most reliable move in terms of strength and accuracy as it excels in both. Aqua Tail makes the Normal and Water combo as well as allowing you to hit Ghosts and also beats down bulky Ground types that want to take physical hits. It also makes the awesome type combo of Water and Normal.
Turban Anyone?
~Swords Dance
~Explosion
~Return
~Aqua Tail
Item Attached: Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs and Nature:
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) Swords Dance gives Lickilicky ridiculous power. Its Attack grows to huge levels, which really makes Explosion a threat. As in, OHKOing 99% of the game threatening. Yeah, that's pretty impressive for a Pokémon in the NU tier. Return is Lickilicky's most reliable move in terms of strength and accuracy as it excels in both. Aqua Tail makes the Normal and Water combo as well as allowing you to hit Ghosts and also beats down bulky Ground types that want to take physical hits. It also makes the awesome type combo of Water and Normal.
Why would you choose Own Tempo over Cloud Nine? And that looks very similar to the DP-analysis SDsplosion set
Lickylicky probably won't be facing the weather starters unless you can make them come in, and that means changing the weather yourself with Lickylicky.
Lickylicky@ Expert Belt/ Leftovers
Cloud Nine
Careful
100 HP/ 252 Att/ 156 SpD
Sandstorm/ Sunny Day/ Rain Dance
Power Whip
Earthquake
Toxic/ Brick Break/ Explosion/ filler
Lickylicky is pretty bulky and is very capable of taking a hit, so coming on after a KO or switching in on a set up turn or attack should be pretty simply, especially a special hit considering the EVs. Sandstorm is the primary option because I feel that Sun and Rain are harder to counter than Sand, and EQ and Power Whip hit most common Sand team Pokemon pretty hard anyway. Setting up Sandstorm in either the Rain or Sun will draw out Politoed or Ninetails, and since you know which one will be coming out you choose either Power Whip or Earthquake to hit for SE damage and likely get a OHKO with SR support. The EVs are designed to take hits from Toed and Tails because both of them are specially based, and without boosts from the weather, they won't be OHKOing Licky.
I'm not really sure what to do with the last slot though. If you have more trouble with sand, the set could easily be made to be specially offensive and carry Surf and Focus Blast (or mixed with Brick Break I guess) and physically defensive to be able to take hits from the usual sand threats. Obviously you would want to use Sunny Day or Rain Dance instead of Sandstorm as well.
Thoughts?
Lickylicky@ Expert Belt/ Leftovers
Cloud Nine
Careful
100 HP/ 252 Att/ 156 SpD
Sandstorm/ Sunny Day/ Rain Dance
Power Whip
Earthquake
Toxic/ Brick Break/ Explosion/ filler
Lickylicky is pretty bulky and is very capable of taking a hit, so coming on after a KO or switching in on a set up turn or attack should be pretty simply, especially a special hit considering the EVs. Sandstorm is the primary option because I feel that Sun and Rain are harder to counter than Sand, and EQ and Power Whip hit most common Sand team Pokemon pretty hard anyway. Setting up Sandstorm in either the Rain or Sun will draw out Politoed or Ninetails, and since you know which one will be coming out you choose either Power Whip or Earthquake to hit for SE damage and likely get a OHKO with SR support. The EVs are designed to take hits from Toed and Tails because both of them are specially based, and without boosts from the weather, they won't be OHKOing Licky.
I'm not really sure what to do with the last slot though. If you have more trouble with sand, the set could easily be made to be specially offensive and carry Surf and Focus Blast (or mixed with Brick Break I guess) and physically defensive to be able to take hits from the usual sand threats. Obviously you would want to use Sunny Day or Rain Dance instead of Sandstorm as well.
Thoughts?
What about a TR Me first Set?
Lickilicky @ Life Orb
Nature: Brave
Ability: Own Tempo
252 Atk/ 252 SpA
Me First
Rest
Sleep Talk
Protect
?
Lickilicky @ Life Orb
Nature: Brave
Ability: Own Tempo
252 Atk/ 252 SpA
Me First
Rest
Sleep Talk
Protect
?