Metagame Linked

Bug Report

It seems like Stomping Tantrum is not working. I tried once on Miltank with Milk Drink + Stomping Tantrum whereas Miltank was full HP. Stomping Tantrum's damage did not seem to change at all. Another person I've matched with told me this first; he tried Gravity + Stomping Tantrum. Is this a bug or an intended mechanic (maybe because Stomping Tantrum detects failed moves on turn basis)? I haven't saved the last replay but I'll send another one when I get it to happen again.

UPDATE: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1151055400

Here's the replay. It only changed by 2%. I don't know if that should be the change but simple mathematics call that 19% should increase to 38%. But I don't know, I may be wrong.
 
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Anyway let me post what I've found so far
1594740020283.png

Miltank (F) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Milk Drink
- Curse/Stomping Tantrum/Earthquake
- Body Press/Heal Bell
- Earthquake/Seismic Toss

A decent physical wall. It is pretty weak to fighting moves, special moves, and attackers who already had setup x2 attack (if you're not running curse) though. But the main purpose of this set is to counter the common Marowak-Alola set since Marowak-Alola usually runs Poltergeist and Flare Blitz. Miltank's normal typing makes it be immune to Poltergeist, while Miltank's ability, Thick Fat, makes it tank Marowak-Alola's Flare Blitz well. If you're running Stomping Tantrum (which is currently bugged at the moment) Marowak-Alola must either switch out or keep damaging you to not trigger Stomping Tantrum's double damage. He would have a hard time whether Stomping Tantrum had its BP boosted or not anyway, so you could also switch for Earthquake. Aside from Marowak-Alola, this set also handles Weavile well because of Miltank's ability again, Thick Fat, which halves the damage of Fire and Ice attacks. And even if Weavile is not running ice, you can switch up for Body Press for that guaranteed OHKO.
 
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What actually happened is that because of how turn order works in Gen 8, Porygon2 moved first because it's faster, but then it sets up Trick Room, making Slowbro faster. Slowbro undoes Trick Room, making Porygon2 faster again.
Oh, thanks. As I was first expecting the linked moves to be like one "multi-hits move", this explanation didn't even cross my mind after, ahah.
 
Get Easy Wins On Ladder With This Underrated TR Sweeper Core (Importable at Bottom)

Yes, we all know that TR is very broken and borked in Linked. But that doesn't mean we can't be creative with it! I've gone undefeated in a dozen games on ladder with these two lesser-used TR sweepers that I think work really well together:

:tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Lash Out
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Curse + Lash Out sets up while firing off base 150 dark-type nukes. Tyranitar is naturally bulky enough to start taking stuff like Mach Punch, Aqua Jet, and Grassy Glide at +1 Def and powerful enough that it 2HKOs Magearnas switching into it. This is a click 1 button and sweep mon and it's just really good.

:togedemaru:
Togedemaru @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Endure

I am definitely not the first to think of level 1 Endeavor strats, but I think I've really perfected this one. The last moves are just to fill space; the real juiciness is in the linked moves and the item. The biggest weakness of FEAR users in standard mons is that even if they succeed in getting a kill, the opponent is free to bring in whatever ghost type/priority-packing/otherwise immune user and end all the fun. With Endeavor + U-turn, you're out of there before they can shift the momentum back in their favor.

The other asset this Togedemaru brings to a TR team is a guaranteed free switchin as long as hazards are off the field. Sturdy + Red Card lets Togedemaru live everything and phaze out any threatening sweepers. Even better, it wants to be at 1 HP for lethal Endeavors + U-turns.

Togedemaru and Tyranitar have great synergy. Toge can U-turn out of Ghost types into Tyranitar and start up a sweep, and residual Sand damage finishes off Endeavored foes when Toge isn't at 1 HP. Meanwhile, Togedemaru breaks all the Unaware Clefables and Quagsires and Corviknights that have a chance of walling Ttar.

For all you TR mains out there, I have prepared a nice big paragraph for you as to why you should try out these mons:
:marowak-alola:

The big question all the TR mains out there are asking is: "Why should I use this janky Tyranitar/Togedemaru stuff when I've already topped ladder on 8 alts with Alolan Marowak?"

Yeah, that's a big question. A lot of the time, Tyranitar sweeps under the same conditions as Marowak but with slightly less breaking power and higher susceptibility to common priority. Here are the big advantages Tyranitar has over Marowak in my eyes:
  • Less rocks weak
  • Dark type's immunity to Prankster lets Tyranitar sweep through opposing Whimsicott/Grimmsnarl/Klefki, and not being weak to Sucker Punch lets you beat Dragapult and Urshifu
  • Being able to run an item lets Tyranitar pick and choose its checks. With Chople, you are guaranteed to beat certain Psychics/Ghosts/Body Pressers, Lefties gives you staying power, Lum lets you shrug off status, and Weakness Policy gives you an explosive boost in power.
  • A more subtle point, but the sand and Tyranitar's unique typing allow for some interesting TR teambuilding structures that aren't possible with Marowak. In particular, you're free to use other Ghosts like Mimikyu

To finish off, here's a replay showing what the team can do: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1153635592

And here's the importable of the team: https://pokepast.es/55869cb3b315eb17

Thanks for reading and have fun!
 

Kris

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Moderator
hewwo

Ivy and I have decided to restrict Trick Room from being linked.

Numerous teams have started using anti-Trick Room counterplay just to handle Trick Room teams, and the numerous Pokemon that have access to the move allow for tactics like Trick Room + Teleport spam, which furthers the need for more heinous forms of counterplay and is almost a cry for a call to action.
 
Standard OU clauses (incl. Dynamax clause, Galarian Darmanitan ban)
Why is Galarian Darmanitan banned? Gorilla Tactics was what made it overpowered in OU, but in this metagame said ability is far worse as it means Galarian Darmanitan cannot use the central gimmick of the metagame. Band Galar Darm still hits hard, but so do many other pokemon in this metagame. Maybe scarf Darmanitan would be good enough to be banworthy, but it seems like that's something that should be tested.
 
Why is Galarian Darmanitan banned? Gorilla Tactics was what made it overpowered in OU, but in this metagame said ability is far worse as it means Galarian Darmanitan cannot use the central gimmick of the metagame. Band Galar Darm still hits hard, but so do many other pokemon in this metagame. Maybe scarf Darmanitan would be good enough to be banworthy, but it seems like that's something that should be tested.
I thought the same for a while but unfortunately Gorilla Tactics would still be too good. Band Darm wouldn't be so bad, things like SD Triple Axel Weavile hit harder already and outspeed.
However scarf is just not competitive in a meta where there are practically no other scarfers, and none even close to as strong. Galarian Darm would become the one true best scarfer and revenge killer, not being able to use the meta's primary gimmick is negligible when you have a perma-choice band+scarf combination.
I do agree scarf could have a place in today's meta and not necessarily be broken, especially when we still have things like Cinderace and Mew running around. However, that's not the problem with unbanning Darm.

While it also has perfect coverage and access to Trick, it more importantly also has Zen Mode.
If you are asking to unban Galarian Darm, you are also asking to unban Darm Galar Zen, which would definitely be broken even if scarf isn't.
 
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Bug Report

Another bug suspected again. This time, it's about the move, Round. Round + Copycat in theory should work, but it didn't work at all. Or is it not a bug because round needs to have another pokemon (literally) to do it?
 
Get Easy Wins On Ladder With This Underrated TR Sweeper Core (Importable at Bottom)

Yes, we all know that TR is very broken and borked in Linked. But that doesn't mean we can't be creative with it! I've gone undefeated in a dozen games on ladder with these two lesser-used TR sweepers that I think work really well together:

:tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Curse
- Lash Out
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Curse + Lash Out sets up while firing off base 150 dark-type nukes. Tyranitar is naturally bulky enough to start taking stuff like Mach Punch, Aqua Jet, and Grassy Glide at +1 Def and powerful enough that it 2HKOs Magearnas switching into it. This is a click 1 button and sweep mon and it's just really good.

:togedemaru:
Togedemaru @ Red Card
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Endeavor
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Endure

I am definitely not the first to think of level 1 Endeavor strats, but I think I've really perfected this one. The last moves are just to fill space; the real juiciness is in the linked moves and the item. The biggest weakness of FEAR users in standard mons is that even if they succeed in getting a kill, the opponent is free to bring in whatever ghost type/priority-packing/otherwise immune user and end all the fun. With Endeavor + U-turn, you're out of there before they can shift the momentum back in their favor.

The other asset this Togedemaru brings to a TR team is a guaranteed free switchin as long as hazards are off the field. Sturdy + Red Card lets Togedemaru live everything and phaze out any threatening sweepers. Even better, it wants to be at 1 HP for lethal Endeavors + U-turns.

Togedemaru and Tyranitar have great synergy. Toge can U-turn out of Ghost types into Tyranitar and start up a sweep, and residual Sand damage finishes off Endeavored foes when Toge isn't at 1 HP. Meanwhile, Togedemaru breaks all the Unaware Clefables and Quagsires and Corviknights that have a chance of walling Ttar.

For all you TR mains out there, I have prepared a nice big paragraph for you as to why you should try out these mons:
:marowak-alola:

The big question all the TR mains out there are asking is: "Why should I use this janky Tyranitar/Togedemaru stuff when I've already topped ladder on 8 alts with Alolan Marowak?"

Yeah, that's a big question. A lot of the time, Tyranitar sweeps under the same conditions as Marowak but with slightly less breaking power and higher susceptibility to common priority. Here are the big advantages Tyranitar has over Marowak in my eyes:
  • Less rocks weak
  • Dark type's immunity to Prankster lets Tyranitar sweep through opposing Whimsicott/Grimmsnarl/Klefki, and not being weak to Sucker Punch lets you beat Dragapult and Urshifu
  • Being able to run an item lets Tyranitar pick and choose its checks. With Chople, you are guaranteed to beat certain Psychics/Ghosts/Body Pressers, Lefties gives you staying power, Lum lets you shrug off status, and Weakness Policy gives you an explosive boost in power.
  • A more subtle point, but the sand and Tyranitar's unique typing allow for some interesting TR teambuilding structures that aren't possible with Marowak. In particular, you're free to use other Ghosts like Mimikyu

To finish off, here's a replay showing what the team can do: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1153635592

And here's the importable of the team: https://pokepast.es/55869cb3b315eb17

Thanks for reading and have fun!
Hey sorry for the double post but the rules regarding TR have changed since I posted this team. And even though not being able to put TR in a link is a big nerf to the team, the good news is that it still works! Here's the updated paste: https://pokepast.es/447c7d18fc3d8d64

And here's a little replay showing that the team still holds its own vs the meta's biggest threats: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1154708573

Enjoy!
 

Arkeis

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I reached #1 on the ladder with this team so it's time to share it. It uses a few underrated Pokemon including the fantastic defensive duo of Steelix and Mantine!



Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 21 Spe
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- High Horsepower
- Iron Head


Steelix is a great tank that reaches over 1000 Defense after an Iron Defense and that means a super strong Body Press. Once it gets going, it can take on almost any physical attacker that's not immune to Fighting. High Horsepower over Earthquake because it isn't weakened when Grassy Terrain is in effect. Iron Head for Fairies like Togekiss, Hatterene, and Mimikyu.

The Speed has been adjusted so that it will be slower than Trick Room sweepers with over 30 base Speed like Crawdaunt, Rhyperior, and Alolan Marowak but still be faster than Ferrothorn outside of Trick Room so I can OHKO it before it sets up entry hazards.

Mantine @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Roost
- Scald
- Toxic


A perfect partner for Steelix who takes on special attacks and resists all of Steelix's weaknesses - Fighting, Fire, Ground, and Water. Haze removes boosts from Volcarona, Clefable, and Magearna while it wears them down with Scald and Toxic. On the physical side, Mantine walls Rapid-Strike Urshifu who is one of the few physical attackers Steelix can't handle due to Surging Strikes. As long as they don't carry Thunderpunch or Rock moves, Mantine is a great matchup. It can also handle Assurance Sharpedo if it leads with a Water move.

Dragapult @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Darts
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn


I usually lead with this and while many Dragapult use WoW + Hex, a physical sweeper works as well once Fairies are gone. Colbur Berry weakens Knock Off especially from the faster Zeraora as well as Sucker Punch from Cinderace and other Dragapults.

Rillaboom @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Drum Beating
- Grassy Glide
- Brick Break


Grassy Surge is for teams that use Psychic Surge and it also weakens Earthquake for Steelix and powers up Comfey's Giga Drain. Rillaboom hits hard after a Swords Dance, lowering the opponent's Speed which can allow it to get a second attack in. Brick Break is there specifically for Dual Screeners, since the most common users aren't immune to Fighting.

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Assurance
- Protect
- Aqua Jet


My first revenge-killer who outspeeds Zeraora after a Speed Boost and can check Indeedee if it links only Psychic moves. Assurance hits very hard especially if Liquidation manages to lower the opponent's Defense. Protect can also be used to stall out Trick Room and if it's still up, there's always Aqua Jet.

Comfey @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Giga Drain
- Calm Mind
- Taunt


My second revenge-killer and though it doesn't hit as hard as Sharpedo, it lasts much longer with two moves that drain health and it's an amazing weapon against potential threats like Kommo-o, both Urshifu, Shell Smashers, and many more. Against more passive opponents, it has Taunt and Calm Mind to set up on them.

Importable: https://pokepast.es/a84638d325d48770
 
This might seem kinda memey, but hear me out:
:shedinja: Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Swords Dance
- Poltergeist
- X-Scissor
- Sucker Punch

Here are some calcs-

+2 252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 183-216 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 163-193 (53.6 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

+2 252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 217-256 (77.2 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As you can see from the calcs, its very powerful, 2HKOing a lot of mons, if not OHKOing.
You send it vs mons that can't touch you, like Magearna, most Azus, most Zeraoras, Urshifu-R etc.
Considering that there aren't any good normal types in the meta, or bulky Dark types besides Incinaroar and Ttar, your Poltergeist is pretty free.
Sucker Punch is great for finishing off weakened foes. And X-Scissor is just STAB, you can run Toxic instead if you want.

I simply love Shedinja, so in every metagame I try, Ill test it, and in some it is great.
 
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Didn't really have time to play this past week, but I've had a lot of success with this mon:

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Rapid Spin

4th move is filler. I've been using earth power, but don't remember when I last used it. Rocks might be nice so you have something to click when you'd die to sucker punch. Otherwise Torkoal really just wants to sit in trick room and click its link.

Have a few calcs. I just put the dmg% cause I don't know how probabilities add up with the link:

107% min to max HP Marowak-A (90%-106% if Torkoal comes in on rocks)
108% min to max HP Rhyperior

98% - 115% to 0 HP / max Atk LO Dragapult after Sucker Punch max roll
99.9% min to +1 max HP / 4 SpDef Volcarona (apparently it can live on 1HP if you get double min roll)

88% - 104% to max HP/SpDef Umbreon
44% - 52.5% to max HP/SpDef Mantine (never played it, but Arkeis made me curious)

This thing basically cooks the entire tier. Carried me to top 10 even though the rest of the team was 3 TR setters/sacks and 2 mediocre, gimmicky attackers. (Here's the paste, but Magearna isn't legal anymore)


Also thanks for testing that bug/interaction a while back Z!
 
Bug report I think? Not really sure what happened here.
I was laddering with the team Arkeis posted when I got this battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1159196462-6fkuepkpacjs8qpubu52w8evvh66ck5pw

On Turn 8, Inteleon targets... itself with Snipe Shot? Judging from the opponent’s reaction, it wasn’t intentional.

Edit: the only reason I can think of this happening is because focus energy targets the user so the target stayed the same throughout the link? Never seen that before but it makes a little sense?
 
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Bug report I think? Not really sure what happened here.
I was laddering with the team Arkeis posted when I got this battle: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1159196462-6fkuepkpacjs8qpubu52w8evvh66ck5pw

On Turn 8, Inteleon targets... itself with Snipe Shot? Judging from the opponent’s reaction, it wasn’t intentional.

Edit: the only reason I can think of this happening is because focus energy targets the user so the target stayed the same throughout the link? Never seen that before but it makes a little sense?
Hi,
I was wondering when someone else would find this.
I've tested this a lot already and this is what I found out:
The bug is coming from the redirecting properties of Snipe Shot, what you're saying is basically correct.

This effect happens every time you use a non-attacking move before Snipe Shot; it has the same suicide result with Substitute and Agility, which is odd because I don't normally consider those being used as "targeting" the user.
However, that is effectively how it is being calculated.

The effect move targets the user and since Snipe Shot can't be redirected from that, it hurts the user too.

It also happens if you transform into Inteleon with Mew, the Mew hits itself.
The same happens with Laser Focus Duraludon with Stalwart.
 

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