Metagame Linked

It’s gone too far already. I saw a team with a Marowak at Level 94. One wonders at what point it’ll start hindering their ability to net the KOs they need to get.
The thing is it will never hinder the ability to KO/2KO anything it wouldn't already.
There's not any important rolls it misses out on at even lvl 90 since it OHKOs most stuff by such a large margin; with 512 attack even at 10 levels lower.
Also Poltergeist+Flare Blitz is just so incredibly strong and useful it's insane.
In OU some variants don't even run max attack since 150+ adamant still 2HKOs defensive Kommo-o after rocks and it needs way more Spdef bulk.
 
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i'm just gonna drop in here to say: Trick Room + Teleport is busted. Like, actually near unbeatable if a bulky Pokémon like Porygon2 sets it up. Paired with Marowak-A + Swords Dance and Flare Blitz, you literally just get free KOs (unless you're fighting a Toxapex, but that's just one Pokemon).
 
forever destiny bond is annoying
It still requires for the Destiny Bond user to be faster (no Prankster mons learn Destiny Bond, and the fastest Destiny Bond user is Gengar and Froslass at base 110 speed).
i'm just gonna drop in here to say: Trick Room + Teleport is busted. Like, actually near unbeatable if a bulky Pokémon like Porygon2 sets it up. Paired with Marowak-A + Swords Dance and Flare Blitz, you literally just get free KOs (unless you're fighting a Toxapex, but that's just one Pokemon).
Taunt leads help a lot against Trick Room teams. Maybe link it with Knock Off to get rid of Red Cards or Mental Herbs.
 
It still requires for the Destiny Bond user to be faster (no Prankster mons learn Destiny Bond, and the fastest Destiny Bond user is Gengar and Froslass at base 110 speed).
Speed only matters the first time it's used, and only if the opponent OHKOs. Destiny Bond persists until the user takes another action. If you KO something with Shadow Ball with linked Destiny Bond, and then some scarf Knock Off user revenge kills you, that revenge killer is also going to die.
 
* See that Linked is Other Metagame of the Months
* Check the banlist. Everything still allowed (Magearna, Jirachi, Trick room...)
* Rebuild my old team

"OML, absolutely everyone is running Trick Room or Imprison Mew..."

* Wondering why nobody uses Jirachi
* Throw it on my team where it makes no sense
* Now encounters 0 Trick Room team. (Looks like the meta adapted super quickly XD)


I guess that losing Heart stamp reduced Jirachi's viability, especially with Ghost types (immune to Headbutt) seeming more common than Dark types. But still feels uncompetitive as hell.

Glad to see such a wild meta back, however. (I feel no interest in the regular 8G, I have to say.)
 
Some mons I found succes with on the ladder

:swoobat:
Swoobat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
Very simple, very effective. Simple gives you a 100 bp psychic stab move. The decent speed tier of swoobat makes this a suprisingly strong pick. It is slower that alakazam, but simple gives it more immediate power.

:magnezone:
Magnezone @ Life Orb
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lock-On
- Zap Cannon
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
Does not work all the time, but zap cannon becomes a 120 bp thunder wave, which is quite strong and catches a lot of opponents off guard. Mag is quite gimmicky as it is shut down by ground types and is pretty slow, so an offensive fighting type can quite easily knock it out. Still not too terrible

:quagsire:
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Recover
- Scald
- Toxic
I love quagsire. It's unaware makes it that it does not give a damn about a +6 charizard or a quiver dance volcarona, it hazes and then recovers the damage it took beforehand. If volc runs giga drain you have a problem, but it can effectively wall a lot of common set up mons and shut them down.
 
Togedemaru @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield

a fun gimmick that has been somewhat successful (top 10 early ladder, peaked top 20 more recently). endeavor + toxic guarantees a kill on any mon that isn't ghost or poison type as long as toxic doesn't miss. you get all of your health back after endeavor because of shell bell, thus reactivating sturdy and allowing you to rinse and repeat.

spiky shield is really good against physical attackers and fake out beats focus sashes, and both are useful in this metagame for stalling out turns of terrain / tailwind / trick room etc. spiky shield is also useful to kill mons with leftovers beacuse toxic takes two turns to kill them.

has glaring weaknesses obviously (multi hit moves, ghost and poison types) but is somewhat viable because nobody, even ghost and poison types, wants to switch in to endeavor + toxic. ghost types can be poisoned, while poison types and magic bounce users have their HP reduced to like 12. togedemaru's steel typing is very useful because it means it doens't care about toxic being bounced by hatterene, xatu etc.

here's a replay that shows what it can do:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1146999594
 
Togedemaru @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Toxic
- Fake Out
- Spiky Shield

a fun gimmick that has been somewhat successful (top 10 early ladder, peaked top 20 more recently). endeavor + toxic guarantees a kill on any mon that isn't ghost or poison type as long as toxic doesn't miss. you get all of your health back after endeavor because of shell bell, thus reactivating sturdy and allowing you to rinse and repeat.

spiky shield is really good against physical attackers and fake out beats focus sashes, and both are useful in this metagame for stalling out turns of terrain / tailwind / trick room etc. spiky shield is also useful to kill mons with leftovers beacuse toxic takes two turns to kill them.

has glaring weaknesses obviously (multi hit moves, ghost and poison types) but is somewhat viable because nobody, even ghost and poison types, wants to switch in to endeavor + toxic. ghost types can be poisoned, while poison types and magic bounce users have their HP reduced to like 12. togedemaru's steel typing is very useful because it means it doens't care about toxic being bounced by hatterene, xatu etc.

here's a replay that shows what it can do:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1146999594
This is Linked, multi-hits are EVERYWHERE
 
Not everywhere. A lot of mon run a set-up move in first slot. If you get a free switch-in on a mon without multi-hit, you can be pretty annoying with that thing.
 
What I meant was: for encore to work the target needs to have used a move first. I thought that 'having used a move' would reset on switch-out, meaning encore should've failed in the replay.
Was that a bug or do I just not understand how encore works?
 
What I meant was: for encore to work the target needs to have used a move first. I thought that 'having used a move' would reset on switch-out, meaning encore should've failed in the replay.
Was that a bug or do I just not understand how encore works?
This is for sure a bug, encore should reset on switch out.
It's almost as if the linked moves are each halves of 1 turn, but they do not take each other (or anything really) into account.
So by going for the psyshock, you did 0.5 of the turn and got forced out. So by coming back in you are technically still at only at 0.5 of a turn, meaning the encore didn't reset because Shuckle didn't read the forced switch as the turn ending, simply as you doing your half of the turn. I don't think the encore would've worked if you the shuckle had encore linked as it would "complete" it's/your turn.

This supports my theory that the Linked moves don't consider each other as one true link (probably a side effect of the new speed mechanic) and are simply halves of a turn used consecutively.

If you've played enough matches to have a speed tie you might have also noticed that there is always two speed ties, as speed is calculated between individual moves and not "Links."

Here are some replays for proof:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8linked-1148259713
This one I made sure to use an unlinked move so my turn ended on switch out, but the Shuckle still retained memory of the Hyper Voice. This proves Shuckle coding isn't reading the switch out or even if a move was used prior to the Encore, just tracking the halves of the Links used.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1148261043
This one in OU, since there is no Links, Shuckle read the switch out as the turn completing, and held no memory of the previous attack.

Thanks to my buddy io90 for the help!
 
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Not sure about speed tie thing.

The other day, my Porygon2 and Slowbro both used Trick Room + Teleport. It ended up in Trick Room (porygon2), Trick Room (slowbro), Teleport (porygon2), Teleport (slowbro).
But there is no way it was a speed tie (who would run a 68 EV speed Slowbro ?).
 
Not sure about speed tie thing.

The other day, my Porygon2 and Slowbro both used Trick Room + Teleport. It ended up in Trick Room (porygon2), Trick Room (slowbro), Teleport (porygon2), Teleport (slowbro).
But there is no way it was a speed tie (who would run a 68 EV speed Slowbro ?).
That was not the speculative part of my post, the speed tie is proven. If you wanna try it yourself just load up a non-scarfed ditto, it will have two speed ties every time.
 
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Since you're both -7 priority, the speed stats are irrelevant as both of your mons were tying in the negative priority bracket. Therefore, the order of the moves is rolled randomly between the mons.
No. So much no.

If both Pokemon are in the same priority bracket, normal speed mechanics apply. It doesn't matter if that priority bracket is +0 or +1 or -7.

What actually happened is that because of how turn order works in Gen 8, Porygon2 moved first because it's faster, but then it sets up Trick Room, making Slowbro faster. Slowbro undoes Trick Room, making Porygon2 faster again.
 
No. So much no.

If both Pokemon are in the same priority bracket, normal speed mechanics apply. It doesn't matter if that priority bracket is +0 or +1 or -7.

What actually happened is that because of how turn order works in Gen 8, Porygon2 moved first because it's faster, but then it sets up Trick Room, making Slowbro faster. Slowbro undoes Trick Room, making Porygon2 faster again.
Oh you're right, I am incorrect. I removed that part of my post. Thanks for catching it early.
 
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5 Fun Ways to Use Stomping Tantrum in Linked!
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Stomping Tantrum in normal mons is just Ground Punch most of the time, and it sucks. In Linked, there are some tricks that make it actually pretty good a lot of the time. Let's take a look!

1. :linoone: Belly Drum :kommo-o:

On most sets, Belly Drum becomes a wasted slot after your first boost. But if you link it with Stomping Tantrum, then you get a 150 base power ground-type move, which is a big deal for Linoones and Kommo-os trying to break through Aegislash and Magearna. Also pretty nice for if you get Taunted.
Linoone @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Stomping Tantrum
- Extreme Speed
- Throat Chop

Kommo-o @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Stomping Tantrum
- Scale Shot
- Close Combat
2. :dracozolt: Hustle Insurance :durant:

Everyone loves Hustle, but everyone hates missing with Hustle, except masochists. But even a masochist would appreciate it if missing with your first move made the next move more powerful. Ground coverage is great on Dracozolt and Durant, who gain a huge boost in consistency thanks to the Tantrum. Kick it up another notch with Blunder Policy for much more guaranteed Bolt Beak damage.
Dracozolt @ Blunder Policy
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Stomping Tantrum
- Fire Fang
- Outrage

Durant @ Blunder Policy / Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stomping Tantrum
- First Impression
- Superpower
3. :marowak: Low-Accuracy Moves :conkeldurr:

Are two bad moves stapled together a good move? Well, probably not, but are we going to let that stop us? Fire off Sings and Dynamic Punches and still feel good when you miss. Also, a chance to use the best status-inflicting move in the game — Attract! While technically not a low-accuracy move, this move fails at least half of all enemies, so I say it deserves a mention.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Sing / Dynamic Punch / Attract
- Stomping Tantrum
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch / Attract
- Stomping Tantrum
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Dynamic Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
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4. :krookodile: Stealth Rock and Taunt :excadrill:

It'd be nice to attack while setting hazards in Linked. The issue is that after Rocks go up, the link involving Stealth Rock has a useless component. We won't stand for such inefficiency. Set Rocks while doing a respectable 75 BP worth of damage, and then enjoy free 150 BP Tantrums from then on, while also irritating any defoggers that happen to not be immune to ground. Alternatively, shut down lame Trick Room teams by Taunting while doing damage.
Krookodile @ Red Card
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock / Taunt
- Stomping Tantrum
- Taunt / Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stomping Tantrum
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
5. :scolipede: Endeavor :lycanroc-dusk:

Endeavor is a fun move which deserves a post of its own, but it also works really well with Stomping Tantrum. It fails if the user has higher HP than the target, yielding an extra powerful Tantrum. But when the user is at low health, then even a relatively weak Tantrum can finish the opponent off. Win-win!

Scolipede @ Protective Pads
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Stomping Tantrum
- Endure
- Megahorn

Lycanroc-Dusk @ Focus Sash
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Stomping Tantrum
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Hope you give these sets a try, and have a good time stomping up a tantrum on ladder!

Edit: It has come to my attention that some of these combos do not work, such as Stealth Rock + Stomping Tantrum. I think this is probably a bug in the way Linked is coded? My apologies for spreading misinformation.
 
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Kingdra is looking pretty overpowered, just like last gen. Here's my Kingdra set.

360 No Scope (Kingdra) @ Dragon Fang
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Laser Focus
- Surf
- Flash Cannon

Laser Focus makes the next Draco Meteor crit, which means it ignores the special attack drop. Sniper makes crits do double damage, and Dragon Fang buffs Draco Meteor further.

I calculated it and a critical Draco Meteor with a Dragon Fang from a Sniper mon has an effective power of 312. Oh boy.
 
How would Talonflame work with its Gale Wings and Flying priority? If I use Roost and then Brave Bird in a link and Talonflame isn't at full HP, I'm assuming Brave Bird wouldn't be priority because Talonflame already moved. But if its at Full HP and uses Brave Bird and then Roost, the recoil causes Talonflame to lose its full HP priority, causing Roost to not be Priority. Would Roost still be priority? If so this would be pretty broken because you can spam Brave Bird and heal more than you lost before the opponent moves.

I'm gonna test this and see what happens.
 

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How would Talonflame work with its Gale Wings and Flying priority? If I use Roost and then Brave Bird in a link and Talonflame isn't at full HP, I'm assuming Brave Bird wouldn't be priority because Talonflame already moved. But if its at Full HP and uses Brave Bird and then Roost, the recoil causes Talonflame to lose its full HP priority, causing Roost to not be Priority. Would Roost still be priority? If so this would be pretty broken because you can spam Brave Bird and heal more than you lost before the opponent moves.

I'm gonna test this and see what happens.
Because of the way generation 8 deals with mid turn move order changes Roost -> Brave Bird (assuming you hit full health of course) would make Brave Bird priority... but since Roost was not your link has 0 priority.

Brave Bird -> Roost will deprioritize Roost, meaning something faster will move before you, even if you already started your link.
 
How would Talonflame work with its Gale Wings and Flying priority? If I use Roost and then Brave Bird in a link and Talonflame isn't at full HP, I'm assuming Brave Bird wouldn't be priority because Talonflame already moved. But if its at Full HP and uses Brave Bird and then Roost, the recoil causes Talonflame to lose its full HP priority, causing Roost to not be Priority. Would Roost still be priority? If so this would be pretty broken because you can spam Brave Bird and heal more than you lost before the opponent moves.

I'm gonna test this and see what happens.
Here's the test. TLDW: Brave Bird and Roost both have priority. Yeah, this is kinda OP.
file:///C:/Users/elean/Downloads/Gen8Linked-2020-07-12-dragoknight2-dragoknight589.html
 

Swoobat @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Stored Power
 

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