(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
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Blue also had one in the FRLG rematches:
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Blue_(game)#Rematch

Still, it's strange for a pseudo to be more prominent in REMATCHES than an initial final battle.
Well for FRLG it makes sense as the main game tries to restrict itself to the Gen I Pokemon for the main story. Guess they could have given him it in HGSS though they'd probably first want him to have his "original" team (minus his Starter) for the initial battle.

For an initial battle, it was pretty much either Karen or Silver.
 
I’m sure I’ve ranted about this before, but the way your character’s gender is handled in the games with customization is just so terrible. There’s basically no way to be a guy with long hair or a girl with short hair, half the time girls are required to carry a purse, lots of great clothing options are gender-locked, and all of it is so POINTLESS. The art style in these games has never been distinct and the PCs are pre-pubescent anyways. Skip the gender question completely, just ask us what we look like and move on. If I want a buzz cut, give it to me, and if I want a skirt, let me wear it. Doing it their way is actually harder.
You know, this alongside the fact, that Attract still only works on opposite-gendered characters points in the direction that GF is quite reluctant to open up to the " LGBTQ+" community, probably for the parent's sake. Remember in Let's Go that they changed the music to classical because they wanted to give parent's peace because they imagined that people wouldn't like techno music. Now with that mindset, do you think GF wants to risk a parent seeing a boy with long hair or carrying a purse? In their mindset, a parent would be upset and not buy their games, which is a "big" problem cause Pokemon is meant for young kids who rely on parents to buy the game, not mature adults who can handle different views of the world.

Now I suppose it could be a more " Japan being homophobic thing. ", But from other games like Fire Emblem and Super Mario which feature cross dressing, as well as Yaoi ( Gay Manga ) I doubt that this is the case. I could be wrong though, since I don't know much about Japanese Culture.
 
Now I suppose it could be a more " Japan being homophobic thing. ", But from other games like Fire Emblem and Super Mario which feature cross dressing, as well as Yaoi ( Gay Manga ) I doubt that this is the case. I could be wrong though, since I don't know much about Japanese Culture.
I would not think this is the case.
Japan isn't inherently homophobic or anything like that as far as I know, in fact both feminized / gay males and masculine / gay females do appear in other Japanese titles in this or that way. In fact, iirc it was pokemon XY (?) that actually included a transgender trainer at some point.

As far as I know it's more on the opposite line actually: the actual lack of general homophobia and how common sexualization is in Japan means gaming companies don't really feel any "need" to include LGBT content in games, because there's not going to be anyone complaining if there's no LGBT content in them.

Thus, they don't really feel the "need" to include "short haired girls" or "purse carrying males" in the game because realistically nobody would care if they are or aren't in game.
 
In fact, iirc it was pokemon XY (?) that actually included a transgender trainer at some point.
If I remember correctly, to be exact, it's a Beauty in the Battle Maison (female only trainer class) that mentions she used to be a Black Belt/Karate King (male only trainer class). It's not said outright, but the implication here is pretty clear.

Also, concerning someone saying "Skip the gender question completely, just ask us what we look like and move on" a few posts before... isn't that exactly what SMUSUM does? I started a new UM game litterally yesterday and they never ask you your gender, just ask you to pick your character's base appearance from a few pictures.

Furthermore, I think crossdressing is included in Super Mario mostly because of a comedic effect and Fire Emblem might be for plot reasons (didn't play any of them, so I might be wrong), which is different from just customizing your character. From a technical standpoint I assume no mixed clothing in Pokémon means less work and dev time to devote to it, and also no potential problems about body shape and similar problems.
 
There was a character also in the Ferry Wheel in Nimbasa in Black&White IIRC
That was a crossdresser that posed as a Nursery Aide (I don't remember the class name, but a female one at least) as he thought working with children as a male would make him look creepy if I remember correctly. Since I don't play the games in English, I might misremember or even have a completely different dialogue, but crossdressers aren't always transgenders.

It's still interesting to see that the games give a nod to those minorities in general, tho, and that the latest games work around asking you to choose a gender.

To go back to the original matter, I think not being able to mix and match male and female outfits is probably more in the realm of technical constraints and/or the sake of simplicity. I do wish both "sides" had as much customization options, tho, because it feels like female characters have much wider choices, even just starting with the haircuts in Sun/Moon.
 
Also, concerning someone saying "Skip the gender question completely, just ask us what we look like and move on" a few posts before... isn't that exactly what SMUSUM does? I started a new UM game litterally yesterday and they never ask you your gender, just ask you to pick your character's base appearance from a few pictures.
No, because if you pick one of the faces with a blue hat, that’s it, you’re wearing short hair with no accessories for the rest of the game. Pick one with a red hat and you can’t wear a backpack or nice pants.

I saw a kid who looked to be about 12 last weekend. She was wearing a nice dress and had a buzz cut. As of right now, there’s no way for her to make an avatar in Pokémon that resembles her, and that’s a failure on GF’s part.

Also you’re right, female chars get significantly more options than male chars do, and it’s not just the flower pins. I doubt it’s technical, the main male and main female seem to share a skeleton and animations*, and the items occupy the same slots.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fashion_item

*Does anyone have a side-by-side comparison? I looked a bit and couldn’t find one, but it would be interesting to see if anything changed.
 
I get what is being said about player characters, but I think that is never going to go away. As of right now, I can't create an avatar that looks like me, and I don't overly have a problem with that, as I know that a game won't be able to do that without a slider system that will take hours for players to use in order to achieve that. Merely changing it so both "sides" get both options would only move the goalpost of inclusivity a little down the road and someone will still complain about the new system.
 
No, because if you pick one of the faces with a blue hat, that’s it, you’re wearing short hair with no accessories for the rest of the game. Pick one with a red hat and you can’t wear a backpack or nice pants.

I saw a kid who looked to be about 12 last weekend. She was wearing a nice dress and had a buzz cut. As of right now, there’s no way for her to make an avatar in Pokémon that resembles her, and that’s a failure on GF’s part.

Also you’re right, female chars get significantly more options than male chars do, and it’s not just the flower pins. I doubt it’s technical, the main male and main female seem to share a skeleton and animations*, and the items occupy the same slots.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fashion_item

*Does anyone have a side-by-side comparison? I looked a bit and couldn’t find one, but it would be interesting to see if anything changed.
Why do the items cost more in Moon cost more in Sun? Also, how come girls get 200 more items than guys?
 
Why do the items cost more in Moon cost more in Sun? Also, how come girls get 200 more items than guys?
Moon seems to get slightly more color options(and better ones IMO), but mostly it’s that the girl in Malie Community Center sells shoes in Moon but hats in Sun, and shoes cost more.
Ignoring color, women get 2 fewer tops, but 1 more bag, 3 more pants, 4 more socks(guys only get ONE style of socks), 1 more shoes, 1 more hat, and girls can wear the 4 varieties of hair accessory, guys can’t. With different colors for each of those items, it adds up.

And all I really want is to make a char with a buttonup, slacks, a ponytail, and mirrored shades. That’s my default for these things and should not be difficult.

Edit: The hairstyle list, for anyone interested. Also I didn’t realize male chars don’t get lipstick options. Female chars really have a lot more variety.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Trainer_customization
 
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Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
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You know, this alongside the fact, that Attract still only works on opposite-gendered characters points in the direction that GF is quite reluctant to open up to the " LGBTQ+" community, probably for the parent's sake.
Before I get into the LGBTQ+ customization discussion, I just want to comment on Attract (as well as Captivate, Cute Charm, and anything else that causes Infatuation) only working on opposite gender Pokemon. I have a feeling the idea behind the move is, though they'll never say it, that the Pokemon makes the other Pokemon think it's an ideal breeding partner. It doesn't have anything to do with gender but sex (as in whether you're genetically a male or female), probably effecting the opposing Pokemon's hormones. It's why it doesn't work on genderless Pokemon, they either have no or abnormal reproductive organs/methods thus whatever Attract/Captivate/Cute Charm does won't work.

Remember in Let's Go that they changed the music to classical because they wanted to give parent's peace because they imagined that people wouldn't like techno music.
Wait, really? If true that's going a bit extreme. Like, fine, I can understand not wanting a Rival who's antagonistic, but choosing one music genre over the other because you thought one was going to be "threatening" is getting ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I like the classical style and I think it is very fitting for the Kanto region. That said, I would also say more mechanical/digital music would be appropriate like when inside a lab. You don't need to go 100% into one music style, infact mixing things up will give areas with different music styles their own atmosphere.

Customization Identity:
To start, I agree with NormalNavi's conclusion that it's probably due to a technical limitation. The boy and girl models are different so for each to have all clothing/hair styles be compatible they would have to make two versions. Thus they stick to typical gender roles.

That said, it wouldn't hurt for GF to expand on their customization. Because aside from not being able to wear any clothes you want, you can't adjust your character's weight or height. Skin color is limited to 3 tones (there's at least 6 skin tones if you want to cover a general scale, though there's scales that have a larger range). Also, maybe include an "ambigious/non-binary" model between the boy and girl models for those who don't fit the typical body molds. I would bring up also letting you change the proportions of your face but let's stick to basics for now. Only thing you couldn't change would be the protagonists age since you're supposed to be a kid... though wouldn't hurt if they let you make an online avatar (even if it only gives you the option to adjust other Trainer Classes to your liking).

But back to clothing and hairstyles. For hairstyles, yeah, I see no problem giving boys a longer hair option to give them that "rocker/chopper rider/hippie" look. Same for giving girls "pixie" cuts. That said I wouldn't quite agree with, say, giving boys the hair style options the girls get to make their hair look frilly. I'm all for free expression, but at the same time I wouldn't want to give the player character options that would take you out of the experience, like having the boy wearing a dress during a serious cutscene (kind of takes the tension out of it if you're distracted by your player's clothing choice). This is where girls have it a bit easier, they can honestly wear boy clothes with no problem (probably why their wardrobe options are bigger, while boys may one a few things only they have the girls usually get what the boys also have plus additional girl options (like boys only has pants and shorts while girls get that plus skirts)).

Really what I think they should do is let you color your clothes anything you want right off the bat. I don't need a dozen of the same style of shirt in different colors, instead just give me one "copy" of the shirt and let me choose what color I want it to be (and let me change it how I see fit). Not realistic? Sure, but I'm not looking for realism here. I'm looking to make my character look good. You can still have different clothing stores all around selling different styles of clothes, but when it comes to color leave that out and when the player puts on the clothes let them choose whatever color they think looks good. You could even make clothes which has two or three areas you can choose the color for (like a striped shirt; choose the color for the base and another color for the stripes). While girls will still always have more options, it wouldn't feel by as much since a lot of that is due to the same style of clothing but just in different colors.

As for accessories like having the boy carry the bag and the girl wear the backpack, sure, why not? Heck, the Gen V and VI boys did carry bags. Now, the boy bags were the rectangular "laptop" bags while the girls got purse-looking bags, but honestly I don't mind that as it gives each gender their own specific style.

(Honestly I could keep going on about customization ideas but this is already on the edge of wishlisting. Let's just say there's a LOT more GF can be doing to make the player character feel more like an avatar of yourself)

Finally, since the Pokemon world is essentially an anime world, how about letting us have our hair and eye color be any color we want. Important NPCs like Gym Leaders and Villain Teams don't have to stick to the natural colors. :P
 
I saw a kid who looked to be about 12 last weekend. She was wearing a nice dress and had a buzz cut. As of right now, there’s no way for her to make an avatar in Pokémon that resembles her, and that’s a failure on GF’s part.
I can't create an avatar that looks exactly as I like to represent myself, and I don't think that's a failure on GF's part, just that it goes to show that you can't plan for everything everyone will want, especially when you try to keep things relatively simple for younger audiences and (I assume) without going too deep into identity politics for what's at the core a kid-oriented game.

To get back on a less potentially controversial subject, Pikachu315111 raises a good point. There's a lot of way you could customize already existing clothes by being given the option to dye several different traits of a t-shirt or a hat, and for players who likes specific NPC classes (like my girlfriend who loves the Hex Maniac's design) there could be a set of clothing + wig that allows the players to imitate NPC classes or even Gym Leaders, like how they kind of do with the Skull Tanktop. Hell, I think making clothes based on Gym Leaders outfits could even have some kind of justification in universe, if some of them like Elesa are akin to idols.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
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and for players who likes specific NPC classes (like my girlfriend who loves the Hex Maniac's design) there could be a set of clothing + wig that allows the players to imitate NPC classes or even Gym Leaders, like how they kind of do with the Skull Tanktop. Hell, I think making clothes based on Gym Leaders outfits could even have some kind of justification in universe, if some of them like Elesa are akin to idols.
Right! I'm shocked you aren't at least given clothing based on Trainer Classes, let alone for the important NPCs. They could even have DLC for outfits based on Trainer Classes & important NPCs from other games.

And I don't think they would need much justification. For the Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion it's obvious, they're important and popular figure heads who are admired and respected thus have replica of their clothes being sold. For Trainer Classes and Rivals they're considered just normal clothing. For the villain team you either steal or are given a set by members of the villain team.
 
Now I'm imagining random stores that only, exclusively, sell full outfits of a certain class complete with wigs and lenses that only unlock if you beat enough trainers/a specific trainer of a certain class, or some other requirement like beating x trainers in a row with a full Ghost team for the Hex Maniac outfit.
 

Pikachu315111

JAPE Judge!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Now I'm imagining random stores that only, exclusively, sell full outfits of a certain class complete with wigs and lenses that only unlock if you beat enough trainers/a specific trainer of a certain class, or some other requirement like beating x trainers in a row with a full Ghost team for the Hex Maniac outfit.
Well that what I was sort of imagining for few of the outfits. Since certain Trainer Classes appear around only a few routes, it'll make sense for towns/cities near that route to be selling those outfits (and if that town/city also has a Gym Leader they'd have their outfit too, though maybe first require you to defeat the Gym Leader). For example, Laverre Town in Kalos would sell "Hex Maniac", "Fairy Tale", and "Furisode" clothes since its just after the route where those Trainers are fought; in addition, it'll also have the clothing set for Valerie once you defeat her.

The needing to defeat a certain number of that class of trainer is an interesting idea, it would certainly encourage players to battle them if it'll mean they'd unlock their outfit (or maybe get a special variation of the outfit or the ability to color that outfit any color they want; I'd imagine the Trainer Class/important NPCs clothing normally can't have their colors changed but your idea would be a neat way to unlock the ability to).
 
To get back on the subject of small, annoying things.. LET ME HAVE A BUILT IN IV CHECKER BEFORE POST GAME. Or at least make perfect IVs sparkle on the stat screen or something. It was annoying trying to catch a certain legendary during Ultra Moon's story and a shiny Wormhole Heliolisk (wanted to go for a test ride after switching to circle pad controls) with good IVs and had to double check on a good old online IV checker at every reset since I didn't reach Battle Tree yet.
 
To get back on the subject of small, annoying things.. LET ME HAVE A BUILT IN IV CHECKER BEFORE POST GAME. Or at least make perfect IVs sparkle on the stat screen or something. It was annoying trying to catch a certain legendary during Ultra Moon's story and a shiny Wormhole Heliolisk (wanted to go for a test ride after switching to circle pad controls) with good IVs and had to double check on a good old online IV checker at every reset since I didn't reach Battle Tree yet.
Actually Let's Go has such a thing. You get it where you'd originally get the Exp. All in RBY.

Let's see if that sets a trend.
 
Actually Let's Go has such a thing. You get it where you'd originally get the Exp. All in RBY.

Let's see if that sets a trend.
It's also possibly the best iteration so far: it's not straight in the face of the player (so you wouldn't be giving unnecessary/detrimental information to a new or casual player), but it's easy to reach if you know where it is and doesn't require you some pointless task (hello sir hatch 30 eggs since this game is about hatching eggs right?) and you access it straight from the main menu without even needing to use the "PC"... well, there's no PC in Let's Go I guess :P
 
Actually Let's Go has such a thing. You get it where you'd originally get the Exp. All in RBY.

Let's see if that sets a trend.
I was going to point this out, but seeing as I don't have the games I didn't know if it was something that popped up before the post-game. I like to at least try to not give out false information, and I'm not that interested in throwing down the full retail price for Let's Go Eevee at the moment. (and I say Eevee because just look at the bundle of adorableness!)
 
You know, this alongside the fact, that Attract still only works on opposite-gendered characters points in the direction that GF is quite reluctant to open up to the " LGBTQ+" community, probably for the parent's sake. Remember in Let's Go that they changed the music to classical because they wanted to give parent's peace because they imagined that people wouldn't like techno music. Now with that mindset, do you think GF wants to risk a parent seeing a boy with long hair or carrying a purse? In their mindset, a parent would be upset and not buy their games, which is a "big" problem cause Pokemon is meant for young kids who rely on parents to buy the game, not mature adults who can handle different views of the world.

Now I suppose it could be a more " Japan being homophobic thing. ", But from other games like Fire Emblem and Super Mario which feature cross dressing, as well as Yaoi ( Gay Manga ) I doubt that this is the case. I could be wrong though, since I don't know much about Japanese Culture.
I would not think this is the case.
Japan isn't inherently homophobic or anything like that as far as I know, in fact both feminized / gay males and masculine / gay females do appear in other Japanese titles in this or that way. In fact, iirc it was pokemon XY (?) that actually included a transgender trainer at some point.

As far as I know it's more on the opposite line actually: the actual lack of general homophobia and how common sexualization is in Japan means gaming companies don't really feel any "need" to include LGBT content in games, because there's not going to be anyone complaining if there's no LGBT content in them.

Thus, they don't really feel the "need" to include "short haired girls" or "purse carrying males" in the game because realistically nobody would care if they are or aren't in game.
Okay, I feel bad for doing this because this conversation has been dead for over a week and this is a Pokemon forum, but it needs to be said homophobia and prejudice against queer people certainly exists in Japan, but in a way that makes it different than Western culture. And combined with Japanese cultural standards on gender and ones place in society, it probably is a factor in how gender options are presented in many video games, not just Pokemon. It's certainly not "because they don't feel any need" or because "Japan isn't inherently homophobic," but neither is it all condemning.

It's... complicated.

I'll put the main talking points in a hide tab for those curious, but honestly this is simply a statement of fact and not a discussion that should be had here (send me a private message if you really want to talk about it). Please carry on with minor nitpicks and gripes with Pokemon games, and I mean that sincerely.

Overall Japan is progressive for an Asian nation, but as far as getting legal rights for queer people Asia is very behind the times.

1. While being gay is not criminal, gay marriage is not recognized in Japan and their are no protections for queer discrimination (like in the workplace, so you could be fired for being gay). Some cities and districts have passed their own laws legalizing gay rights, showing that this barrier is breaking, but national adoption still remains a distant prospect.

2. Yaoi may feature gay content, but it's predominantly written by women with a female target audience. Thus it's not true queer content, more like how some men find lesbians making out attractive. An entertaining fantasy for women to enjoy. It's similar to cultural appropriation, and not meant for the target it depicts. Gei-comi (or "Bara") is true gay content written for/by gay men, and Yuri for lesbian women (mostly).

3. Japan has some of the highest documented school bullying of LGBT youth, to an endemic degree. And it isn't limited to simply student bullies, some teachers and administrators either permit the bullying, encourage it, or participate as well. In response, in 2017 Japan's government started to enact laws specifically combating this issue.

4. While transgender is recognized, there are a lot of legal and medical hoops to jump through. Specifically, you cannot change your gender until after medical gender reassignment surgery. And I cannot find any definitive evidence recognizing third-gender, genderfluid, or non-binary.

5. Japan has some of the highest suicide rates of a developed nation, and suicide rates are higher than average among LGBT's (although this is a global problem too).

6. While it's true that Japan does not have a history of violence against LGBT's, there is still a strong societal push towards gender roles, including marrying and having kids. While violence is not overt, their is a strong cultural stigma and public shunning.

This isn't to paint Japan in a negative light, merely to shed truth on the situation. The country is showing progress, and I am hopeful legal rights for LGBT will be forthcoming. I remember I turned to anime and Yaoi to cope with myself growing up, but the truth is I was looking at this through a very western tinted lens and the proof behind the pages isn't quite as supportive. I really wanted to buy into that Japan was ahead of the game, it was comforting, but it's also not entirely true.

Like everything in life, it's complicated.
 
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Or, you know, Attract only works in the opposite gender because it's a frigging video game and it needs to be balanced. Crazy talk, I know.
Pretty terrible argument though, as it's not really a particularly "broken" move at all, and the fact it only works on opposite gender makes it both unreliable and basically unusable in any environment, even casual story gameplay :P
 
I’m gay, but I’ve accepted that Attract is a weird relic of times past. It’s kinda dumb, but it’s here to stay.

“Uuuhhh it’s not dumb, it’s just how the animal kingdom works. Stop putting politics in my video games!”

I’m not gonna school my imaginary strawman with stats about gay/bi animals, but I’ll suggest that a male Oddish successfully using Attract on another male Oddish is, in my opinion, way less weird than a male Oddich successfully using it on a female Honedge.

Like many Pokémon moves, it’s essentially magic, so it could easily just work on anything, including genderless Pokémon. Balance isn’t an issue because Attract sucks the rate of immobilisation could just be reduced, like we’ve seen with confusion, or the mechanic could be changed! Maybe it could be adjusted so that the affected Pokémon can still use self- and field-targeted moves while infatuated. There are all sorts of options!

It won’t be changed though, because why would they bother?
 

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