(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[HottieLamatie]

Someone mentioned that Tackle got nerfed: I didn't realise that had happened in Gen 6. In Gen 5 though, I believe, it got a buff - went from 35 BP to 50 BP. Scratch was always 40 BP with 100% Accuracy, so it was literally always better than Tackle in every way; trading Accuracy for more power seemed quite reasonable to try out, I'd say.

Normal-type discussion: I personally think it's fine that Normal doesn't have any gimmicks going on. Two-way immunity to Ghost and being resisted by Rock/Steel seems fitting, while only being weak to Fighting seems legit.

As far as Normal-type Moves, go...I mean, as a Doubles player: I love Helping Hand. It's my favourite Doubles Move. Beyond that, there are A LOT of great Moves: Glare (more accurate than T-wave, can paralyse Ground-types), Howl, Tickle, Protect, Fake Out, Round, Feint, Extremespeed, Safeguard, Weather Ball (though I get that its appeal is its ability to change Types...but I think that's extremely fitting as a Normal-type Move exclusively), Boomburst (don't forget it has 140 BP and no drawback), Endeavour, Sleep Talk (more Gen 2, but still, you can use it with Komala for Last Resort!), Last Resort, Revelation Dance, and don't tell me Tri Attack isn't fun as hell! :P All that said, I think the only major players with Normal typing in the game atm are really just Indeedee-F and Snorlax. It feels like this needs to change. Should it be possible to get Regigigas with HA Telepathy as was rumoured, that would go a long way to helping, I'd say.



Now, what I want to be annoyed about: Nidoking. A lot of people dig their design with all the spikes and whatnot. Peak Nidoking design was, for me, Gen 5. Then came Gen 6 (and every Gen after). They lost most of their spikes...but worst of all is that face. I absolutely CANNOT with that face. Nidoking looks derpy, and I mean that in the most disrespectful way possible. And if GF keep re-using models, that's literally never going to change. I *haaate* it. I think Nidoqueen translated a lot better, but also took a hit. Rhydon also looks quite a bit worse, but I don't see as big of a difference...possibly because of me having a greater attachment to Nidoking?

I don't know how to fix this, but I'd really like to see some metallic Pokémon get their sheen back. The main one that comes to mine is Foretress. Now they're like...what, light grey? (Looking at the models for Gen 6 and 7 on Bulbapedia, neither look metallic at all to me. I thought I saw an in-game clip of Foretress looking at least a little better, though? Either way, I prefer the model from Stadium 2, where the metal is more...like the metal is absorbing more light but is still shiny?)

 

[Sonikku A]

Speaking of, I love how velvet Sneasal's fur was in Stadium. Also like how Sudowoodo had textured on detail making it look more like a tree
Also Ditto being metallic I mentioned earlier, given its artificial nature
Pics of what I mean
Metals

Plastic

Shiny Velvet

Textured on fur, feathers, or other

Honestly, the complaint of low material variety can apply to so many franchises

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

They lost most of their spikes...but worst of all is that face. I absolutely CANNOT with that face. Nidoking looks derpy, and I mean that in the most disrespectful way possible.

"Can't be that bad... It looked good in Stadium 1."

*Looks up Nidoking's current model*

OH GOD! WHAT HAPPENED TO KING!?

 

[Sonikku A]

Nidoking's Blue/Cardass design is his best

FRLG like many designs nerfed it

Though...
Stadium JPN's model was kinda eh. International (Or JPN 2) fixed it

 

[Pikachu315111]

Now, what I want to be annoyed about: Nidoking. A lot of people dig their design with all the spikes and whatnot. Peak Nidoking design was, for me, Gen 5. Then came Gen 6 (and every Gen after). They lost most of their spikes...but worst of all is that face. I absolutely CANNOT with that face. Nidoking looks derpy, and I mean that in the most disrespectful way possible. And if GF keep re-using models, that's literally never going to change. I *haaate* it. I think Nidoqueen translated a lot better, but also took a hit. Rhydon also looks quite a bit worse, but I don't see as big of a difference...possibly because of me having a greater attachment to Nidoking?

So for anyone wondering:

Yikes, yeah, um. Okay, first the eyes. Make them a bit bigger and scoot them closer to each other. Infact the entire face can be squished a bit so it's not so wide (which would also fix the giant mouth issue I'm also seeing). Next the ears should be more pushed back, not sticking out like it's a monster version of Mickey Mouse. Also try to make it more visible it has a snout and not a flat face when looking forward, like you can probably make those eye socket ceases more pronounced to help with that.

EDIT: Okay, tried my hand at fixing Nidoking:

 

[HottieLamatie]

Okay, tried my hand at fixing Nidoking

I think that you were right in your estimation of all the changes that needed to be made! However, I think that Nidoking's new model is simply irredeemable; below I outline all the problems I have:

With Nidoking nearly always being depicted from the side, I think that one of the things that happened was that GF had to translate the features that made Nidoking's profile look good into a forward-facing model which still made sense. But I feel like they also just completely removed the essence of Nidoking. Did they think that they'd look too scary if rendered with all the original features in mind?

For a direct comparison:

Nidoking was edgy...literally. Not just the spikes, either - like, the features were so sharp and well-defined, you know? The detail and/or definition in the arms and legs got removed, the depth in the chest got removed while the shape was simplified, they took away a lot of the spikes, the ears became less perky (I think they should be sticking more upward), and somehow after all that, Nidoking's musculature was simply pushed out to make them more round - the neck and looks extremely wide in the latter image, the belly was expanded, and I think the flattening of the chest and flatting of the wavy lines makes it look like they've got no muscle. To make matters worse, what I think is probably the worst aspect of the face (but don't get me wrong, I hate the ears and eyes) is that Nidoking got a cartoonish-looking overbite. Overbites can make a face look more imposing, but the one on Nidoking looks TERRIBLE and makes it harder, in my opinion, for me to take them seriously. And one last thing (aside from the colour palette being made softer to boot, with the white being more bright and the purple being lighter, which I also think clashes heavily with Nidoking's originally imposing appearance): the legs. In the former image, it looks like Nidoking's legs are solid and study, but bent; i.e., if Nidoking want to, they can stand a little taller, and you'll see that they've got really strong legs. It's almost like this one is crouching slighly, as if they're ready to pounce; in the latter photo, they're extremely short...and just HUGE. Like to the point where it looks like it'd be difficult for Nidoking to chase you down because their legs aren't very mobile and weigh them down more than they give power.

It feels like Nidoking's original style doesn't fit with the aesthetic that Pokémon is going for now, so they just laid down the smackdown on Nidoking. I wouldn't say they don't want Pokémon to be scary or intimidating any longer, so I can't see that as the reason for all these changes...but I do wonder if this is not the scary they're interested in? Eternadus looks pretty scary in my opinion, but I think that they also look like they can't chase you. XD Or was it sheer laziness, which I imagine to be the case with all the Pokémon who previously had a sheen losing all traces of it?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Am I the only person who has no idea what this "they took away the spikes" deal is?

Like, maybe they're shorter (might just be a trick of the camera or posture) but the king's still got his quills.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Am I the only person who has no idea what this "they took away the spikes" deal is?

Like, maybe they're shorter (might just be a trick of the camera or posture) but the king's still got his quills.

They're shorter, and kind of clumped together, I can't remember the word, but compare the 3D model to its Gen V sprite.

But most importantly, they can't be seen from the front, that's why people are saying that.

What really bothers me is the idle stance, and again, this is a general problem with the 3D models.

He's just idle. This is not a fighting stance, and that's something all the sprites did right. You see this purple behemoth and it not only looks pissed, it's in a stance that pretty much says "You gon get this work".

The 3D model might as well be freaking Barney.

 

[Siggu]

But most importantly, they can't be seen from the front, that's why people are saying that.

But you couldn't either in other 3D games like Stadium or Battle Revolution. That's a problem with the angle, not with the model itself.

(Admittedly though, Battle Revolution Nidoking has an idle pose that is more hunched-over, with the same angle you still only see the horn and three spikes)

Frankly, the only issue I can personally see here is that the move to 3D exposes a lot of flaws in older designs, as they weren't made with 3D in mind (although I kind of feel Nidoking gained a little more fat - or rather, became a little more flat - between the FRLG artwork and XY model).

 

[R_N]

Yeah that's always been my thought. A lot of Pokemon weren't designed with like...heft in mind? So you can have al ot of flat extraneous detail and things don't look too weird to your brain which just kind of fills in a full, but still 2D picture. But the transition to 3D typically requires more bulk, heft and so on on just about every Pokemon. And some designs work better than others for that, even before we have to account for other possible limitations that might be on the modelers (time's probably a big one, I imagine some models had limits on their tris than others, model sheet issues, etc).

A lot of gen 5 models in particular I think "suffer" from this.

Snivy has to be way thicker instead of perpetually at a 3/4ths camera flat snake that gives 0 sense of what it'd look like in a 3D space.

Or my personal favorite

Archeops appears much larger than its artwork. If you look closely you can see its got a wide body with thicker thighs but it's way more obvious in 3D and, frankly, probably scrunched up too much in 2D to begin with.
(Incidentally I unironically find 3D Archeops downright delightful with its animation)

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

But you couldn't either in other 3D games like Stadium or Battle Revolution. That's a problem with the angle, not with the model itself.

You can definitely notice how more pronounced the spikes are in PBR even looking at it head-on. Also, the stance, while not ideal, is much more aggressive. Look at the arms too.

Current Nidoking just looks... soft? Every sharp feature it had got removed or changed and it just doesn't look intimidating at all.

 

[Siggu]

A lot of gen 5 models in particular I think "suffer" from this.

Snivy has to be way thicker instead of perpetually at a 3/4ths camera flat snake that gives 0 sense of what it'd look like in a 3D space.

Snivy might be my favourite Pokémon of all, but I've always been kind of concerned about its legs, and the 3D model makes it more obvious. I just can't see how it can stand on two feet. Those legs should be thicker and a bit longer, or just give up and make it slither around with folded legs.

And the same with Servine.

(I don't see a problem with Archeops though... other than the fact that, while hilarious, it would be better if it were grounded)

 

[CPU]

Sky Battles caused the animations for more than one Flying Pokémon to be made awkward to ensure they could be used in them (hi, Xatu)

 

[Hematite]

Definitely agree that most Flying-types, Xatu included (and most of the ones that just glide in place), suffered from the introduction of Sky Battles and would've looked better with standing idle animations, but I actually think Archeops's model is a great expression of its concept and I'm actually really glad that it tries and flails to remain constantly airborne despite clearly not being cut out for it.
I think the only distinctly detrimental part about its transition to 3D is that its head looks smaller and less defined than its official artwork, which is at least part of why it looks feebler, why the rest of it looks so much larger and why it generally looks like it has a disproportionately thick build; I think the awkwardness is something I would really like it to maintain, but the shape itself could use some work.
(I also think tucking in its legs a bit more was an effective way to make it look dynamic and ready to spring to action in its official art and BW sprite, and I think that's another thing that might've helped the model without compromising the goofiness of its flying pose. They're kinda just hanging there in its animation, which is yet another reason why it looks weirdly spread out and not as well defined as its past representations.)

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Speaking of which, what exactly was the point of Sky Battles?

They're barely integrated into the game. The only time you ever fight a Sky Battle is when you're challenged by a Sky Trainer. From what I've heard, you can't even battle other players with this format. ORAS didn't even bother with them, so they're exclusive to XY.

And they aren't even mechanically interesting. They just ban everything without a Ground immunity, bans things with a Ground immunity if their idle pose has them standing (note: it does not work the other way around), and bans any move whose animation involves the ground. This is basically the textbook example of a shitty OM idea.

 

[R_N]

My original point with Archeops was not meant as "its bad" (it's why i used suffer in air quotes, but the rest of the post is about the "downsides" to this I suppose so that's on me) it was to exemplify how some pokemon's designs really weren't designed with 3d in mind.
Archeops in 2D is meant as a fairly sleek-looking pokemon. When you have to actually take that design into a 3D space it looks very goofy because it is actually really bulky but the flatness of spritework and the srcunching of its hind quarters hides all of it in a way 3D space doesn't. And when you add that bit of "realism" it's also way easier to show how its still bad at flying, which the initial sprite kind of couldn't without way more frames.

That said I've definitely seen people hate on Archeops because now they think it looks stupid

Speaking of which, what exactly was the point of Sky Battles?

They're barely integrated into the game. The only time you ever fight a Sky Battle is when you're challenged by a Sky Trainer. From what I've heard, you can't even battle other players with this format. ORAS didn't even bother with them, so they're exclusive to XY.

And they aren't even mechanically interesting. They just ban everything without a Ground immunity, bans things with a Ground immunity if their idle pose has them standing (note: it does not work the other way around), and bans any move whose animation involves the ground. This is basically the textbook example of a shitty OM idea.

Sky Battles are, due to their restrictions, relatively tough for XY which might have been the begin & end poitn for their mechanical design. Might have also liked it specificaly because now that they have 3d backgrounds and 3D Pokemon, they can "show off" in that way.

Is that a good reason for their inclusion? Probably not. But it's the kind of game development logic I could see leading to its implementation.

but I wouldn't be surprised if there was, at some point, more of them throughout the game before getting pulled back. I wouldn't be surprised if Inverse Battles, the other inexplicable battle style you cant even play with friends, were in a similar bucket and wound up worse off (relegated to one (1) NPC in XY and ORAS). Likewise I wouldn't be surprised if ORAS seriously considered using them during development. I mean there's literally battles in the sky due to the soaring mechanic, it'd make sense, right? But I bet even they found that, no, this is a dumb idea that would make battles in the sky really obnoxious (especially if it carried over to the set of legends found only by soaring)

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Speaking of which, what exactly was the point of Sky Battles?

Gimmick Freak.

Worst part? Since the games don't have flying mons standing on the ground, it's not even visually interesting, the only change is a different skybox.

They didn't even make a different idle animation with the eligible mons standing on the ground instead of flying to actually sell the gimmick properly.

I could go on, but it'd take too long and DK made a good vid covering that abomination.

 

[R_N]

Technically the games do have grounded idle animations... they're just all shoved into Pokemon Amie. The "happy" and "mad/sad" animations could even be repurposed into proper attack/hit animations for some of them

It's kind of frustrating. Eelektross even does a little jiggly dance when it's happy to see you

e: You know, spitballing here, but I feel if they spent the time to integrate the pokemonamie/camp/whatever options with the standard battle animations people on the whole would probably be happy. With a couple extra animations thrown in for transition states. Like what if Xatu used the amie idles but then went into the doofy airborne state for a few of its moves. Then have some of the other amie animations happen as random idles, maybe even tie them to the affection mechanic in someway. actually use those damn sleep animations every pokemon has!

And then for online battles they can streamline where needed. Like the sleep animations are fairly long, so in Ranked they could use the standard "the eyes just close"

This isn't going to make everyone happy, it's not like amie's animations are these super energetic things, they're just closer and Ithink it'd be worth the dev time.

 

[Siggu]

Technically the games do have grounded idle animations... they're just all shoved into Pokemon Amie. The "happy" and "mad/sad" animations could even be repurposed into proper attack/hit animations for some of them

It's kind of frustrating. Eelektross even does a little jiggly dance when it's happy to see you

e: You know, spitballing here, but I feel if they spent the time to integrate the pokemonamie/camp/whatever options with the standard battle animations people on the whole would probably be happy. With a couple extra animations thrown in for transition states. Like what if Xatu used the amie idles but then went into the doofy airborne state for a few of its moves. Then have some of the other amie animations happen as random idles, maybe even tie them to the affection mechanic in someway. actually use those damn sleep animations every pokemon has!

And then for online battles they can streamline where needed. Like the sleep animations are fairly long, so in Ranked they could use the standard "the eyes just close"

This isn't going to make everyone happy, it's not like amie's animations are these super energetic things, they're just closer and Ithink it'd be worth the dev time.

It's quite jarring to see animations full of personality and life being locked OUT of battles. I mean, this is not even asking Game Freak to make new animations, but rather just to use already-existing ones (although, now that I think, they'd need to make new animations for pain and attack).

Sleeping, Idle, and Eating animations could easily be used in battle. Maybe adding "Happy" for when they are healed or cured from status, or when KOing an enemy Pokémon (and "Angry" if they accidentally KO an ally).

And with Mega Evolutions, Pokémon that lacked Amie animations, being out of the picture, it's even easier.

 

[Sonikku A]

How come almost every gen the 2nd evo of at least 1 starter is odd?
Gen 1 we have Wartortle (though we know why)
2 we have Croconaw suddenly being caveman skin for patterns, and Bayleef is yellow vs the other green evos
3 Marshtomp is truly biped vs its other evos, and Combusken is light orange vs the darker orange of the others
6 Braixen is extremely feminized despite the 50/50 chance, and Quiladin is heaven forbid the worst starter evo ever
7 Dartrix is..emo?
8 All honestly have this issue. Thwackey is pretty yellow, Raboot is a ninja..., and Drizzlie is weirdly emo

 

[khlaylav]

Here's a little thing: while Blue taking over as Giovanni's replacement is cool and he's a worthy fight, it's annoying how Gen 2 has no Ground representation, period. Every other type gets repped as an Elite Four member or gym leader, except Ground. It's odd.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Gimmick Freak.

I get that Game Freak likes their gimmicks, but Sky Battles are far and away the laziest gimmick in the series. Every gimmick falls on a spectrum between minigame and alternate battle format (things like Pokeathlon and Amie on one end, Triple Battles and Inverse Battles on the other, and contests and Pokestar Studios somewhere in the middle) and all them, except for Sky Battles, shake up the core mechanics in some way. Sky Battles are just regular battles with a bunch of shit banned.

I'm also not convinced Sky Battles are the reason so many Pokemon are permanently airborne, or at least, I don't think that's the full story. With how half-assed and lazy Sky Battles are, there's no way in hell it was anything more than a last minute addition. The reason so many Flying or Levitate Pokemon are airborne is probably because, well, most of them can fly or levitate. That's just something they do often. If they had actually been designed with Sky Battles in mind, don't you think they would have made sure that every Flying and Levitate mon was actually airborne? Don't you think they wouldn't have made Gengar and Hawlucha grounded, along with

Hide

Pidgey
Spearow
Farfetch'd
Doduo (weird case)
Dodrio (weird case)
Hoothoot
Natu
Murkrow
Delibird
Taillow
Starly
Chatot
Shaymin
Pidove
Archen
Ducklett
Rufflet
Vullaby
Fletchling

Or if they thought of the idea mid-development after the models were done, don't you think they would have allowed Pokemon like Venomoth or Magnemite who don't have Flying or Levitate but are still airborne, instead of taking the list of Pokemon directly from "ctrl + F" searches for "flying" and "levitate" and then culling the standing ones?

The most influence that I can believe Sky Battles had on Pokemon animations is when they added it late in development, they realized "oh shit, we need more Pokemon" so they took a few of the standing Flying-types and gave them a bare bones airborne animation. It's probably not a coincidence that many of the Pokemon who got a half-assed gliding pose (Swellow, Tropius, Salamence, Xatu, Skarmory, etc.) are Pokemon that were usually depicted as standing, and thus whose battle models were probably also originally standing.

6 Braixen is extremely feminized despite the 50/50 chance, and Quiladin is heaven forbid the worst starter evo ever

Delphox is also feminized, and Quiladin is amazing.

Look at this lad. Look at how happy he is. He is having a ball being a ball.

If there are any odd evos in gen 6, they's the final ones. Chesnaught abandons the dark brown fur and cheerful demeanor, while Greninja swaps the bubble scarf for a tongue scarf and abandons the bubble mustache (it doesn't completely abandon the bubble motif, but it's hard to tell; it wasn't until I saw them jiggling on the Smash 4 victory screen that I realized those white circles on its knees and elbows are bubbles).

 

[Sonikku A]

Yeah, final evos also have issues in some gens
5: As much as I like the design, Samurott being biped is odd. And no ones aware he has a sword
6: Chestnaught being white is odd. Personality changing isn't an issue though (not to mention a pokemon shouldn't be rigidly 1 personality strictly based on design. Note Oshawott). And Greninja ditching most of the bubble aesthetic
7: The flaming tiger that totally isn't a Fire Fighting. The excuse "but he's more expressive" is butt. Every other Pokemon can be expressive without being too humanoid or toony. And it just comes off as generic cuz >Fire Fighter Dark biped body
8 Intelleon is iffy with the sudden change, but Sobble I already disliked how excessive it's crying gimmick was, so meh

 

[R_N]

Chesnaught's color scheme is so interesting to me because its shiny version

Seems to match up pretty well. Still a few oddities, maybe a little darker than it should be, but I think the colors flow from one to another fairly nicely

 

[RocketSurgery]

I wouldn't be surprised if Inverse Battles, the other inexplicable battle style you cant even play with friends, were in a similar bucket and wound up worse off (relegated to one (1) NPC in XY and ORAS).

Inverse battles are an interesting case. Apparently you could set your secret base to inverse rules in oras, and there was a special battle spot season in gen 7 that used them, so it's not even like they got completely dropped never to be seen again... albeit in gen 7 they only returned for a time-limited cameo (it doesn't look like the battle rules were downloadable for this season). I'm very curious about how flexibly GF can change online battle rules beyond just mon and move banlists. (still hoping the restricted sparring in the dlc is effectively a kind of battle stadium rotatinf special season type thing).

While I'm not especially pining for inverse battles to return, I do think it might be neat if there were an "inverse room" move that swapped the type chart for 4-5 turns.