(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Bull Of Heaven]

Old topic: I could swear I read something about Game Freak having been hesitant to make the Snivy family because snakes have an especially unusual body shape and they were worried about it either not being relatable or just not having the general popularity that they want in a starter.

And, okay, sure, Snivy is only... my all-time favourite starter.

New topic: Team Yell often show up as just an obstacle to keep you from going to an area you’re not supposed to yet. Much like a thirsty guard or the “dancing for no reason” guys, except they can be reused at various points throughout the journey. Maybe this is uncharitable, but I sometimes kind of think of that as their main function.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Old topic: I could swear I read something about Game Freak having been hesitant to make the Snivy family because snakes have an especially unusual body shape and they were worried about it either not being relatable or just not having the general popularity that they want in a starter.

And, okay, sure, Snivy is only... my all-time favourite starter.

The plus point about Snivy is that its body indeed stands out. While it's a good idea to strip down components of a character to let players project themselves on it, there's the risk of also homogenizing the designs? I've seen a bit of this with the recent lineups of fully-evolved starters with, what, the biped humanoid nature?

Anyhow I really think Snivy looks better without feet or even arms because that'll certainly set it apart from the other starters. Its last step does lose the feet (contrary to popular perception, Serperior does have arms, they're those little dark green leaves on the neck.

Oh it's strange they want to go with "relatable" yet the gender ratio is complete whack with a heavy skew toward male; given the prevalence of ditto, this skewing is kinda arbitrary these days. What's wrong with being able to make multiple copies of your starter? Is it to artificially limit their numbers in online trading?

 

[Worldie]

I don't think Team Yell was really ever intended to be a full-blown villainous team, despite their marketing, as they're shown to basically be Marnie's cheerleaders from their first scene, and Marnie very obviously isn't evil. Then again, I guess they are an "evil" team if you remember that they're just Spikemuth's gym trainers, Spikemuth being the Dark, or "Evil" type gym.

I agree.

I think people really "oversell" Team Yell and Team Skull as "bad guys".

Both SM and SwSh moved from the original model of "the <Team X> guys are the bad guys" script of the previous entries. Neither of them are in fact meant to be bad guys, in fact both of them end up following the archetype of "rejects of society with no actual ill mean", when in fact both entries have their own evil society.

Now, one can argue that the model of "pretty evident bad guys Team X" worked better than "Team X annoys people but the actual bad guys are operating behind the scenes while everyone thinks they're good", in which case there's probably reasons to both sides, but I think there's no point now to keep comparing Team Yell/Skull to the actually-evil Teams of the past, because they serve completely different narrative place and purpose.

I don't honestly know why the writing moved in this direction in the SM arc. It's difficult to know if it's GameFreaks decision or someone else, since I have no idea who actually writes the "world plot" from which both anime and games draw and which isn't always consistent (see SM arc where several of the in-game trial captains are actually just students in the anime).

 

[Siggu]

Old topic: I could swear I read something about Game Freak having been hesitant to make the Snivy family because snakes have an especially unusual body shape and they were worried about it either not being relatable or just not having the general popularity that they want in a starter.

And, okay, sure, Snivy is only... my all-time favourite starter.

Sugimori did state the reason the Snivy line starts with legs is precisely because they thought snakes weren't relatable.

 

[Ironmage]

I know I have a warped perception of what's cute, but seriously? Snakes are too abnormal? They're just your average carnivore that happens to move weird, no worse than birds or anything.

Though It's not like I used 'relatable' as a criterion for my main in a playthrough anytime recently anyway, most of the time I don't even consider my starter the main mon for a playthrough.

 

[Siggu]

I know I have a warped perception of what's cute, but seriously? Snakes are too abnormal? They're just your average carnivore that happens to move weird, no worse than birds or anything.

Though It's not like I used 'relatable' as a criterion for my main in a playthrough anytime recently anyway, most of the time I don't even consider my starter the main mon for a playthrough.

I do think snakes are really cute, but I can understand their reasoning. Snakes... don't really have the best of reputations, and they are often associated with evil characters. A child would have been less likely to pick Snivy if it looked more like a snake due to that bad rep snakes have.

 

[Worldie]

I know I have a warped perception of what's cute, but seriously? Snakes are too abnormal? They're just your average carnivore that happens to move weird, no worse than birds or anything.

Though It's not like I used 'relatable' as a criterion for my main in a playthrough anytime recently anyway, most of the time I don't even consider my starter the main mon for a playthrough.

You aren't wrong, but you are examining this as an adult, when you always need to remind that when it comes to "relatable" we're speaking of kids, and I do agree that a kid is more likely to find a humanoid or funny starter attractive than a animal-looking one.

If you think of it, even the "initial forms" of the latest starters have always had either excessively cute (hello Sobble) or generally funny elements when they aren't looking straight up humanoid.

After all, when they reveal a new region, the starters are basically the first new Pokemon they show, and having attractive (no, not in the sexual sense, you pervs) starters is a good way to get the kid interested in getting the game.

Us "adults" might instead rather look at the whole picture or at the graphics or whatever every one prefer, for example I remind my first thought when watching the first trailers was about how gorgeous the region looked (which to be fair it is outside of the mess the wild area is), but the first impression cuteness is often a dealbreaker with very young buyer base who may in future also commit to buy plushies and other generic merchandise.

 

[Ironmage]

You aren't wrong, but you are examining this as an adult, when you always need to remind that when it comes to "relatable" we're speaking of kids, and I do agree that a kid is more likely to find a humanoid or funny starter attractive than a animal-looking one.

If you think of it, even the "initial forms" of the latest starters have always had either excessively cute (hello Sobble) or generally funny elements when they aren't looking straight up humanoid.

After all, when they reveal a new region, the starters are basically the first new Pokemon they show, and having attractive (no, not in the sexual sense, you pervs) starters is a good way to get the kid interested in getting the game.

Us "adults" might instead rather look at the whole picture or at the graphics or whatever every one prefer, for example I remind my first thought when watching the first trailers was about how gorgeous the region looked (which to be fair it is outside of the mess the wild area is), but the first impression cuteness is often a dealbreaker with very young buyer base who may in future also commit to buy plushies and other generic merchandise.

Except I'm not really looking at things fully as an adult (where I value interesting mechanics over interesting aesthetics). I'm looking at my grade-8 experience of Black, where the pokemon that convinced me to buy was klink and my most pleasant surprises were joltik and litwick. I may not have used it in my first playthrough (between disliking its evolution and being enough of an idiot that I needed my starter's overleveling), but bronzor was still one of the cutest gen 4 mons back in 2007. Of mons I thought were cute and would have considered getting plushes for, I can only really think of two that had a normal body plan: drilbur and aron (my current most beloved plush is of chandelure). So no, I've always been this weird.

 

[R_N]

I agree.

I think people really "oversell" Team Yell and Team Skull as "bad guys".

Both SM and SwSh moved from the original model of "the <Team X> guys are the bad guys" script of the previous entries. Neither of them are in fact meant to be bad guys, in fact both of them end up following the archetype of "rejects of society with no actual ill mean", when in fact both entries have their own evil society.

Now, one can argue that the model of "pretty evident bad guys Team X" worked better than "Team X annoys people but the actual bad guys are operating behind the scenes while everyone thinks they're good", in which case there's probably reasons to both sides, but I think there's no point now to keep comparing Team Yell/Skull to the actually-evil Teams of the past, because they serve completely different narrative place and purpose.

I don't honestly know why the writing moved in this direction in the SM arc. It's difficult to know if it's GameFreaks decision or someone else, since I have no idea who actually writes the "world plot" from which both anime and games draw and which isn't always consistent (see SM arc where several of the in-game trial captains are actually just students in the anime).

More than anything I think they just wanted to shake things up after 6 generations of goofy-but-take-us-serious-plz bad guys.
Hell the actual evil team is more limited to Lusamine, Aether itself appears to be legit otherwise. Skull's just her hired hands.

its an interesting shake up. So is Team Yell/Rose to an extent. Yell is just a background annoyance, they're even less villianous that Skull (who I'll remind you do mess up the island and the cliamx kicks off because they kidnap some Pokemon and LIllie): They just try to impede challengers and barely at that. Hell they love the Pokemon and everyone is just "but why are you--" irrtated rather than "lmao team skull"'s pity. Guzma has illusions of grandeur but he still leads from a giant mansion in Po Town and hates the island challenge and is bitter at the world; Piers & Spikemuth just really cares for his sister. Rose completes our billionaire trio with one who obstensibly cares about the region but decides on this horrific plan.
SWSH's problem with them is more execution, as with.....everything else in that game, really.

 

[Worldie]

So no, I've always been this weird.

I see nothing wrong with it, after all I picked Bulbasaur back 20 years ago

More than anything I think they just wanted to shake things up after 6 generations of goofy-but-take-us-serious-plz bad guys.

Back when we only knew SM and USUM, I agreed they wanted to shake up the (a bit redundant honestly) old Teams stereotype.

I was surprised they went for (essentially) the same concept in SwSh, which makes me wonder if gen 9 or... even DLCs actually, will feature the same mechanism.

In fact, now that I think of it, I am curious... DLCs are indeed a new aspect for Pokemon, and we know nothing of if the new islands will feature a new "villanous team", or enemy in general, or the plot will be something else.
I'll add this to the list of stuff I am looking forward, because thinking of it they never really told us what the plot of the DLCs is and how it relates to the main game *if it even does*. Like, do people on Isle of Armor know what's going on with Rose? Does it actually "take place" during the story, or after the Eternatus event? Are we the Champion for them, or does the game even have different dialogues if we've beaten the main game or not? Is there an actual "enemy" we are fighting against?

Honestly if it wasnt GameFreaks I'd expect great interactions, but maybe I need to keep my expectations down...

 

[R_N]

I see nothing wrong with it, after all I picked Bulbasaur back 20 years ago


Back when we only knew SM and USUM, I agreed they wanted to shake up the (a bit redundant honestly) old Teams stereotype.

I was surprised they went for (essentially) the same concept in SwSh, which makes me wonder if gen 9 or... even DLCs actually, will feature the same mechanism.

In fact, now that I think of it, I am curious... DLCs are indeed a new aspect for Pokemon, and we know nothing of if the new islands will feature a new "villanous team", or enemy in general, or the plot will be something else.
I'll add this to the list of stuff I am looking forward, because thinking of it they never really told us what the plot of the DLCs is and how it relates to the main game *if it even does*. Like, do people on Isle of Armor know what's going on with Rose? Does it actually "take place" during the story, or after the Eternatus event? Are we the Champion for them, or does the game even have different dialogues if we've beaten the main game or not? Is there an actual "enemy" we are fighting against?

Honestly if it wasnt GameFreaks I'd expect great interactions, but maybe I need to keep my expectations down...

I think the plot in Armor is exactly what it seems to be: you enter a dojo, you go beat up a tower, kubfu evolves, you graduate. That's it. Your "rival" will probably be doing their own thing and you guys fight a couple times.

It will not interact with the story in anyway, I imagine, because you can access it at literally any point in the game once you get to the wild area.

Tundra will likely works similarly, though at least we have the chance of a Mystery being afoot with Peony, his daughter, and the legendary Pokemon.

 

[Worldie]

Tundra will likely works similarly, though at least we have the chance of a Mystery being afoot with Peony, his daughter, and the legendary Pokemon.

Well, Tundra from what they shown *seems* to have some sort of story arc going on with the Regis and birds (as they seem to be the only legendaryes that are not found in raids)

 

[R_N]

Well, Tundra from what they shown *seems* to have some sort of story arc going on with the Regis and birds (as they seem to be the only legendaryes that are not found in raids)

Right that's what I mean. I just lumped the birds, regi and Calyrex into one category. Peony's purpose...

Upon arriving in the Crown Tundra, you’ll encounter Peony, who has brought his daughter along on an adventure to find the truth behind tales of Legendary Pokémon in the area.

is to investigate exactly that

So we'll probably be solving 3 mysteries as we explore deeper into the tundra:
-the birds & their connection to the tree
-the ruins of the regi
-calyrex, likely at the ruined....cathedral? temple? castle?

 

[Codraroll]

So, what I fear is that the story of the DLC will only amount to this:

"Hey <player>! Welcome to the Crown Tundra! I'm Peony and this is my daughter. We were just about to investigate that tree over there. Why don't you come with us?"
(you walk across the plain and enter the tree)
"Wow, the inside of the tree is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be three branching chambers here! I wonder how we open them ... could it be related to pressing the switches on the floor in the right order?"
(you do so, opening the chambers and catching the birds)
"Oh, so the chambers contained the legendary birds! Well, let's try them out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"There are also some ruins we would like to have a look at. Meet you there!"
(you walk back across the plain and enter the ruins)
"Wow, the inside of the ruins is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be two branching chambers here! I wonder how we open them ... could it be related to pressing the switches on the floor in the right order?"
(you do so, opening the chambers and catching the Regis)
"Oh, so the chambers contained the legendary golems! Well, let's try them out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"Having solved the mystery of the ruins, we would like you to have a look at Crown Tundra Castle! It's right up the hill, meet you there!"
(you walk up the hill and enter the castle)
"Wow, the inside of the castle is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be one chamber dead ahead! I wonder how we open it ... could it be related to pressing the switch on the floor?"
(you press it, open the chamber, and encounter Calyrex)
"Oh, so the chamber contained Calyrex! Well, let's try it out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"How fun that was! Anyway, that's it for the Crown Tundra! Feel free to roam around and catch Pokémon in the tall grass as well!"

... and then you're left to do exactly that. Well, that and a few new Max Raid Dens. I hope I'm setting my expectations too low here, but nothing is making it sound like you'll be given more than a quick guided tour around the Crown Tundra with mandatory stops to catch legendary Pokémon and maybe use them in battle.

 

[khlaylav]

So, what I fear is that the story of the DLC will only amount to this:

"Hey <player>! Welcome to the Crown Tundra! I'm Peony and this is my daughter. We were just about to investigate that tree over there. Why don't you come with us?"
(you walk across the plain and enter the tree)
"Wow, the inside of the tree is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be three branching chambers here! I wonder how we open them ... could it be related to pressing the switches on the floor in the right order?"
(you do so, opening the chambers and catching the birds)
"Oh, so the chambers contained the legendary birds! Well, let's try them out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"There are also some ruins we would like to have a look at. Meet you there!"
(you walk back across the plain and enter the ruins)
"Wow, the inside of the ruins is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be two branching chambers here! I wonder how we open them ... could it be related to pressing the switches on the floor in the right order?"
(you do so, opening the chambers and catching the Regis)
"Oh, so the chambers contained the legendary golems! Well, let's try them out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"Having solved the mystery of the ruins, we would like you to have a look at Crown Tundra Castle! It's right up the hill, meet you there!"
(you walk up the hill and enter the castle)
"Wow, the inside of the castle is so much bigger than I thought! And there appears to be one chamber dead ahead! I wonder how we open it ... could it be related to pressing the switch on the floor?"
(you press it, open the chamber, and encounter Calyrex)
"Oh, so the chamber contained Calyrex! Well, let's try it out in battle!"
(after the battle)
"How fun that was! Anyway, that's it for the Crown Tundra! Feel free to roam around and catch Pokémon in the tall grass as well!"

... and then you're left to do exactly that. Well, that and a few new Max Raid Dens. I hope I'm setting my expectations too low here, but nothing is making it sound like you'll be given more than a quick guided tour around the Crown Tundra with mandatory stops to catch legendary Pokémon and maybe use them in battle.

As much as Gamefreak is... well, Gamefreak, I can't imagine them not putting in some overblown excuse to fight the same Pokémon over and over again while taking on entirely indistinguishable people whose only purpose is to be laughed at and defeated easily (yes, I am still bitter over Team Flare).

What I'm getting at is there will likely be some sort of "evil team" or antagonistic force in that DLC. Probably trying to unethically access the tree or take over the legendaries or some other overwrought plot

 

[Worldie]

As much as Gamefreak is... well, Gamefreak, I can't imagine them not putting in some overblown excuse to fight the same Pokémon over and over again while taking on entirely indistinguishable people whose only purpose is to be laughed at and defeated easily (yes, I am still bitter over Team Flare).

What I'm getting at is there will likely be some sort of "evil team" or antagonistic force in that DLC. Probably trying to unethically access the tree or take over the legendaries or some other overwrought plot

Well if USUM is anything to go by, some random gigantic threat that will destroy the universe (hi Necrozma) and gets resolved with us catching it could serve without any fancy extra story...

 

[R_N]

Well if USUM is anything to go by, some random gigantic threat that will destroy the universe (hi Necrozma) and gets resolved with us catching it could serve without any fancy extra story...

Ehhh the Necrozma plot line is just gradted onto the normal story and is less a "destroy the universe" issue and more a "destroy our home" issue.
Not really equivalent to the DLC, which are basically sidequests because of how they function.

A better relative would probably be the Looker sidequests, since even though even then those build off the main game as post-game scenarios they're mostly stand alone self-contained plots that you can dip in & out of at any time

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I know I have a warped perception of what's cute, but seriously? Snakes are too abnormal? They're just your average carnivore that happens to move weird, no worse than birds or anything.

Though It's not like I used 'relatable' as a criterion for my main in a playthrough anytime recently anyway, most of the time I don't even consider my starter the main mon for a playthrough.

Nah, it's not "warped". There's more than just a few kids and adults that find snakes cute or cool. You CAN make a cute snake, it's certainly been done before. Snake Pass...

You aren't wrong, but you are examining this as an adult, when you always need to remind that when it comes to "relatable" we're speaking of kids, and I do agree that a kid is more likely to find a humanoid or funny starter attractive than a animal-looking one.

If you think of it, even the "initial forms" of the latest starters have always had either excessively cute (hello Sobble) or generally funny elements when they aren't looking straight up humanoid.

After all, when they reveal a new region, the starters are basically the first new Pokemon they show, and having attractive (no, not in the sexual sense, you pervs) starters is a good way to get the kid interested in getting the game.

Us "adults" might instead rather look at the whole picture or at the graphics or whatever every one prefer, for example I remind my first thought when watching the first trailers was about how gorgeous the region looked (which to be fair it is outside of the mess the wild area is), but the first impression cuteness is often a dealbreaker with very young buyer base who may in future also commit to buy plushies and other generic merchandise.

On the other hand, there's a lot of media geared for kids that stars animals, even on the less humanoid side. The movies and books have a sizeable amount of protagonists that star even nonhumanoid animals, which is largely absent in adult media? The success of Redwall, Warriors, Black Beauty, Guardians of Ga'Hoole, Zootopia, Rio, and so much more of that media tells me that kids in general absolutely love animals, probably more than adults do. Heck, I just browsed through a Twitter consisting of jokes that kids make and they involve a lot of recognizable animals.

The initial forms do follow a formulate, generally being squat in the build with large heads, the shape usually spherical and even. There is no starter with lithe bodies, small heads, or small eyes. To be fair, this is probably common for most first stage Pokemon. Pichu, Cranidos, Shuppet, Slugma I can imagine being appropriated as starters. But you don't see something like Porygon, Ekans, Magikarp, or Remoraid being used as a starter, even though some will make for some pretty cool and unconventional starters.

I just think GameFreak is playing safe the designs in some cases. Too safe when it comes to final evolutions. Pokemon is already capable of having starters not be immediately recognizable as to what animal they're based on: Bulbasaur, Chikorita, Mudkip; Bulbasaur in particular is frequently merchandised over the later starters and I have no idea what it's supposed to be besides some vague dinosaur thing.

Anyhow I might be a kid at heart because any time a new Pokemon game crops up I just really want to see the new weird creatures and how well they fare in battle. Heck they draw me in more than the setting (too many times the games don't really develop on the setting established and there's been complaints that the setting is just set up to give more Kanto Pokemon more forms if they aren't infesting the region already).

 

[Siggu]

Bulbasaur in particular is frequently merchandised over the later starters and I have no idea what it's supposed to be besides some vague dinosaur thing.

It's a toad. You can see it on Bulbasaur's animation in the GBA/DS Mystery Dungeon games, and Venusaur's running animation in the newer games. It was also confirmed in an interview.

But then again, Bulbasaur's second flavor is that it looks strange. Both its japanese and french names take cues from that.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I figured it's toadlike from the proportions (though the legs look like a sauropod; Venusaur's hind legs do bend like a frog's) and squat build, but it doesn't push that resemblance enough to make me say, "Oh yeah that's definitely a frog". Which was intentional given the Ken Suigimori interview stating it's "frog-like". As for the animations in the original Mystery Dungeon, well, it jumps but so does Mudkip. I do know about its French name but it never seemed "bizarre" enough when I think Froakie, despite looking more like a frog, looks weirder.

Anyhow I thought people called Venusaur some big fat toad mostly just to insult it.

 

[Sonikku A]

Bulbasaur line has a frog cry in Stadium
Though Stadium has the oddity of monkey yells for Machop line, despite the reptilian features

 

[Ironmage]

If I recall correctly, bulbasaur is deliberately ambiguous as to its species. It's japanese name includes the word for 'mystery' and can be read as "isn't it strange?" and the french translation uses "bulbizarre."

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Bulbasaur line has a frog cry in Stadium
Though Stadium has the oddity of monkey yells for Machop line, despite the reptilian features

Dialga's cry is a horse getting run over by a tractor so sometimes, cry noises just aren't accurate. :P

 

[Sonikku A]

Dialga's cry is a horse getting run over by a tractor so sometimes, cry noises just aren't accurate. :P

...But he's not in Stadium
..And PBR just uses game cries

 

[Magnus0]

I have this small annoyance with the bag in HGSS. For example, if you go to the second tab of your TM´s, you´ll end up on the TM in the right-most spot. If you imagine all the tabs to be right next to each other, it's like you skipped over a TM spot. Doesn't make sense to me.