(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Antihaxxer]

Iron Leaves losing his Fighting type is strange ... And Psychic / Grass type is known as one of the worst type ...
Water/Dragon is cool but I expected something more like Water/Electric or Water/Fire

 

[Worldie]

Iron Leaves losing his Fighting type is strange ... And Psychic / Grass type is known as one of the worst type ...
Water/Dragon is cool but I expected something more like Water/Electric or Water/Fire

We did kinda speculate on both typings back on the datamine thread.

They do make sense mostly. While they probably picked Suicune and Virizion cause... Scarlet...Violet... S...V....
They wanted to do "something" to not just make them "the other version but better" and rather look a bit alike a fusion / alternate version of the entire group.

Based by the other paradox entries, they were going to very likely add a type to Suicune, and alter one of the types of Virizion

Dragon type is a good "mix" of fire / water / elec of the 3 beasts, so works fine.

The Virizion choice is a bit odder, replacing fighting with psychic is a interesting choice basically flipping the fighting type of the trio, though I think it'd have been more interesting to keep the fighting type and instead replace the grass one...

 

[Karxrida]

I feel like Wake's Dragon typing is supposed to a roundabout reference to Lugia since it's vaguely draconic. But that's probably a huge stretch on my part.

 

[Coronis]

I feel like Wake's Dragon typing is supposed to a roundabout reference to Lugia since it's vaguely draconic. But that's probably a huge stretch on my part.

Would make more sense if Lugia was the trio master - but its Ho-oh. Tbh I don’t really know if I like the idea of there being paradox legends, I’d rather think of the legends as eternal and unchanging.

(obviously Koraidon and Miraidon kinda have to be exceptions here)

 

[pika pal]

I think the thing that makes me less immediately aversive to these Paradoxes is the fact that even within the Scarlet and Violet Book, the Legendary amalgamations were explicitly "imagined" rather than sighted. These were always things being imagined, and it's very clear from the sketches that the intent was for them to look more or less like the whole trio at once. We datamined evidence of them being specific trio members, but I get the distinct sense that GF's intention was for us to speculate more broadly on what the hell these things are and what member they'd take after.

For a secondary annoyance, I wish I had a dollar for every single post asking/pointing out that Walking Wake breaks the lore with Ho-oh reviving the Beasts in the Burned Tower. It's Matpat levels of "I am trying to be smart but don't actually know what I'm being so pedantic about"

• Multiple individuals of some trios, including the Beast Trio, have been depicted as existing simultaneously in the franchise, especially if the Battle Frontiers are included with Brandon and Anabel running them in their teams. The anime especially makes this clear with at least 3 Suicune appearances, 2 Raikou, and 2 Entei because of the Zoroark movie having the Shiny Trio. Unless there were a lot of revived casualties in the Tower Fire, the more likely explanation is that the beasts existed as a (rare) species and were the form Ho-oh revived them into rather than creating a new group entirely
• Walking Wake's only existing story reference is the "Imagined" Pokemon sketch in the book, so we literally don't even know if this thing exists or has a direct relation to Suicune
• If it is an ancestor, what precludes Walking Wake from being the Pokemon that was revived into Suicune? In that theory Ho-oh's influence could explain the loss of its more bestial/dinosaur like qualities
• If there is not a direct relation, we could explain this just as easily as being Convergent evolution like the two instances in Paldea, and this could theoretically extend to several of the past Paradoxes since they appear well before Sada's Time Machine was built, meaning they would have to have existed in the Crater for a while.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I feel it's too soon to assume much about Walking Wake and Iron Leaves considering we don't have the full lore of Area Zero, the Terastal phenomenon, and the Paradox Pokemon yet, and the newly announced DLC is going to probably expand on that lore. I am sure Walking Wake and Iron Leaves will play a more major role in the DLC and also be a major component in explaining what the deal behind all of the Paradox Pokemon collectively speaking really is.

The fact that the drawings we saw of Iron Leaves and Walking Wake were stated in the book to be imagined is something I feel is a major major part in explaining what the deal behind Paradox Pokemon really is, and something the DLC will expand upon with those two in particular. The implication I believe is going to be the case is that the Paradox mons, all collectively speaking, come from the time machine that Professor Sada/Turo created, but the catch to them is that they are not actually from the past or the future that actually happened in the timeline, but rather they are fanfiction literally brought to life by the machine that is powered by Terastal energy in Area Zero.

As such, the fact that the drawings of Walking Wake/Iron Leaves is imagined is probably a major factor lore-wise, in that the Paradox Pokemon are in fact imagined to begin with and then the Terastal energy's powers brought what people of this era imagined to be ancient/future Pokemon to life in a way. So effectively, humans of the present era literally created Paradox Pokemon with their imaginations, and the time machine powered by Terastal energy manifested what human imaginations created and made them manifest as living beings. So Walking Wake and Iron Leaves aren't literally a Suicune or Virizion from the past or future, nor are they actually related to the beasts and musketeers/Swords of Justice we know today. They are what the writers of the Scarlet/Violet book imagined ancient/future legendaries to be like made manifest in physical form by the power of the Terastal energy and presumably the harbinger of the Terastal phenomenon, Terapagos, using a machine created by Sada/Turo.

I do think the DLC's storyline will greatly expand upon the lore of Area Zero, the Paradox Pokemon, Terastal, and the experiments Sada/Turo did, especially part 2 which focuses on Terapagos who is the implied Disk Pokemon. And I think the situation with the Paradox mons as a whole will become much more clear after that.

 

[Worldie]

I think the thing that makes me less immediately aversive to these Paradoxes is the fact that even within the Scarlet and Violet Book, the Legendary amalgamations were explicitly "imagined" rather than sighted. These were always things being imagined, and it's very clear from the sketches that the intent was for them to look more or less like the whole trio at once.

To add on this, I really feel most people forget that there is a reason for these pokemon being classified as "Paradox" pokemon.

The main deal of these Pokemon is that they're not meant to be existing. Somehow they got willed into reality (very likely to have to deal with the "Time Machine"), but likely never existed. Thus, there's no "inconsistency" in how a paradox pokemon looks to their "original", as they likely have no actual connection to them, so for example, Paradox Suicune has actually nothing to do with Suicune other than being based on it.
The heavy emphasis the Books place on these being imagined entities reinforces this point, that the "conclusion" to the Time Machine story will shed how these got created, which may very well be as simple as "the time machine doesn't actually let you time travel, rather somehow gives phisical form to imagination"

Incidentally, the fact the DLC is called "The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero" strongly implies that despite going away from it, we'll actually be still dealing with whatever Area Zero's and the paradoxes origin is, and maybe hear of Turo/Sada and Heat again.

 

[pika pal]

The heavy emphasis the Books place on these being imagined entities reinforces this point, that the "conclusion" to the Time Machine story will shed how these got created, which may very well be as simple as "the time machine doesn't actually let you time travel, rather somehow gives phisical form to imagination"

The main issue I have with the "the Time Machine doesn't let you time travel" is that it still begs the question of how what are seemingly the same Pokemon were spotted 200 years ago as mentioned. I would believe the Pokemon aren't here all-together because of the time machine, but at the same time there are other inconsistencies if the Machine (regardless of nature" is the reason they exist at all.

 

[Hyper Cutter]

I assume Terapagos probably created paradox mons on its own in the past (perhaps as a defense mechanism), and the time machine was essentially Sada/Turo harnessing its power to make it do that on demand.

 

[Karxrida]

Would make more sense if Lugia was the trio master - but its Ho-oh.

Hence why I said it was a huge stretch. It's like a 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon connection.

 

[Pikachu315111]

One of the other big annoyances for me is Walking Wake's typing. Water/Dragon feels kind passe, especially since we just got Tatsugiri.

I can take or leave Grass/Psychic for Iron Leaves, but would have preferred something weirder like Grass/Rock or Grass/Electric.

Also Walking Wake is another recent example of them doing "dinosaur = Dragon". Early gens they were good at avoiding that trope, but in recent gens they've been doing it more often. Not helping is that Ancient Paradox Pokemon already gave us two dinos, Koraidon and Roaring Moon, and both are Dragon-types (in RMoon's case they took away Salamence's Flying-type and replaced it with Dark... even though I think it would have made more sense if it was the Dragon-type that was replaced with something else).

As for what other Type they could have made WWake, I'm thinking maybe Poison as it looks like something that came out of a swamp/bog (don't know why, maybe the purple mane? Makes it look scraggly).

Iron Leaves I think could have gotten away with Grass/Steel. They were good at not giving Steel to every Future Paradox, only just one, so I don't think it would hurt giving Steel to another. And a robot version of Virizion would have been a nice candidate to point out the contrast between it and it's normal counterpart.

The main issue I have with the "the Time Machine doesn't let you time travel" is that it still begs the question of how what are seemingly the same Pokemon were spotted 200 years ago as mentioned. I would believe the Pokemon aren't here all-together because of the time machine, but at the same time there are other inconsistencies if the Machine (regardless of nature) is the reason they exist at all.

Maybe Turo/Sada believed that the crystals of Area Zero had caused time anomalies in the Great Crater of Paldea. To them, the Paradox Pokemon looked to be Pokemon from the past/future, so they came in with a bias that the Terastal Phenomenon made into fact. As long as Turo/Sada believed the Paradox Pokemon were from another time and slipped into our time due to crystals creating a time anomaly, they were able to make a "time machine" to retrieve more Pokemon from the past/future (or one dreamed up in their imagination).

As for where the original Paradox Pokemon came from, what Hyper Cutter said. Someone on the Area Zero Expedition Team may have imagined running into a primal beast (Scarlet) or mechanical monstrosity (Violet) and Terapagos reacted to it and made it into reality. Now the question is whether that researcher imagined Donphan as a base of his fears or if Terapagos needs a Pokemon as a "base" to create an imaginary off of and a Donphan just so happened to be around. The latter would explain why WWake and ILeaves are only based on one of the members of its trio: It was the only member of that trio which was close by for Terapagos to make a Paradox of (not that it can't make a fusion as we've seen with IValiant, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was able to find a Gardevoir & Gallade together but not a Legendary Trio who tend to stay apart from one another).

 

[Magcargo]

So Chien-Pao is def a massive upgrade from Weavile, but in terms of stats, its distribution is actually not too much better. Its speed is a bit higher and its slightly bulkier on average, but most of its extra BST went into Special Attack. Now, you probably aren't gonna want to run special sets on this Pokemon anyways outside of meme sets / lures, but Gamefreak really made sure those 90 points went to waste by giving it no moves on the special side. For reference, Chien-Pao doesn't even learn ICE BEAM, which is kinda nuts seeing that nearly every other Ice-Type learns the move (though it does get Blizzard for some weird reason). Doesn't learn Nasty Plot either, so your strictly stuck running Specs with moves like Tera Blast and Hex as "coverage".

This doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but it does suck since being able to run meme Nasty Plot sets would have been a fun diversion. It didn't even need much, just Nasty Plot and Ice Beam to kinda be workable.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

Caught a Lapras on Pokemon Go this morning and was trying to figure out why, years on, that Pokemon still excites me even though it's common as hell in the modern games.

I think it's because Lapras, moreso than any other Pokemon, is so mythologised in the first few gens. Few Pokemon have gotten that much attention outside of their dex entries - it's one of the most lore-heavy species that isn't a legendary.

In Gen I it's obviously given as a gift and its rarity and specialness are emphasised; in Gen II several NPCs talk about the strange roars from deep within the Union Cave, making it a cool mystery that you'll remember and provide incentive to return later in the game. In Gen III Lorelai's Lapras is one of the rare examples of an NPC's Pokemon that gets some actual characterisation: she says it's angry that the Rockets are hurting its friends, and one of the NPCs on Four Island later tells the player that she caught the Lapras years ago in the Icefall Cave when she was very young and has been with it ever since.

Gen IV and V don't do much with it (outside of HGSS doing the same thing), but it remains prominent by dint of being elusive and by being a gift again in Gen VI, and then of course Gen VII gives us the happy news that it's no longer endangered and gives it the spotlight as a ride Pokemon. But that consistent status as a story-relevant mon and the way the games continue to favour it with unique Surfing models and suchlike mean that it's one of the few Pokemon that still feels special and rare.

That's hard to achieve for any of the Gen I species, since almost by design every gen dilutes the rareness and uniqueness of each species. Snorlax would be the obvious comparison to Lapras, but in Gen I Snorlax is just kind of... there. A man on the SS Anne references it as an amazing sight, but it's not discussed in any great detail and the fact that it's roadblocking two parts of Kanto is pretty much unreferenced outside of a couple of missably NPCs idly mentioning it. It's much the same in Gen II; DPP make Snorlax special by making Munchlax so damned rare, but in Gen V it's quite easy to obtain and in Gen VI it's another roadblock (and available way too early IMO). Gen VII makes Munchlax common from the start: it was a gift mon in SM and it's wild on Route 1 in USUM. It's not really that rare or special any more.

But yeah. Lapras still, somehow, manages to excite me whenever I see one. Idk what other Pokemon from the early gens I could say the same of.

 

[MegaFlareon]

Caught a Lapras on Pokemon Go this morning and was trying to figure out why, years on, that Pokemon still excites me even though it's common as hell in the modern games.

I think it's because Lapras, moreso than any other Pokemon, is so mythologised in the first few gens. Few Pokemon have gotten that much attention outside of their dex entries - it's one of the most lore-heavy species that isn't a legendary.

In Gen I it's obviously given as a gift and its rarity and specialness are emphasised; in Gen II several NPCs talk about the strange roars from deep within the Union Cave, making it a cool mystery that you'll remember and provide incentive to return later in the game. In Gen III Lorelai's Lapras is one of the rare examples of an NPC's Pokemon that gets some actual characterisation: she says it's angry that the Rockets are hurting its friends, and one of the NPCs on Four Island later tells the player that she caught the Lapras years ago in the Icefall Cave when she was very young and has been with it ever since.

Gen IV and V don't do much with it (outside of HGSS doing the same thing), but it remains prominent by dint of being elusive and by being a gift again in Gen VI, and then of course Gen VII gives us the happy news that it's no longer endangered and gives it the spotlight as a ride Pokemon. But that consistent status as a story-relevant mon and the way the games continue to favour it with unique Surfing models and suchlike mean that it's one of the few Pokemon that still feels special and rare.

That's hard to achieve for any of the Gen I species, since almost by design every gen dilutes the rareness and uniqueness of each species. Snorlax would be the obvious comparison to Lapras, but in Gen I Snorlax is just kind of... there. A man on the SS Anne references it as an amazing sight, but it's not discussed in any great detail and the fact that it's roadblocking two parts of Kanto is pretty much unreferenced outside of a couple of missably NPCs idly mentioning it. It's much the same in Gen II; DPP make Snorlax special by making Munchlax so damned rare, but in Gen V it's quite easy to obtain and in Gen VI it's another roadblock (and available way too early IMO). Gen VII makes Munchlax common from the start: it was a gift mon in SM and it's wild on Route 1 in USUM. It's not really that rare or special any more.

But yeah. Lapras still, somehow, manages to excite me whenever I see one. Idk what other Pokemon from the early gens I could say the same of.

Lucky for you, Lapras is a great Pokémon in both GO PvP and PvE as an tanky Ice-type with a great movepool so you might want to enjoy using that Lapras.

I do remember endlessly surfing in Icefall Cave and then falling asleep trying to find a wild Lapras with 1% encounter rate. Those Tentacools annoyed me to hell lol.

 

[pika pal]

Why is Galarian Meowth a thing? Everything about it makes me hate it and Gen 8's approach to Regionals.

For one thing, the design is barely recognizable as the same mon because of the massive shaggy beard/mane, compared to Alolan Meowth being a palette swap (as were a lot of the Regional Variants overall). I do not look at this thing and think it's supposed to be Meowth as was the case with other variants or even just some "cousin" Pokemon like Volbeat and Illumise. It feels arbitrary to have made this a variant and not a stand alone mon to me (or even for this to exist as a two stage evo).

Second, I don't get the design or theming. Yes I know the pun is on Berserkers for the evolution, but where does the shaggy coat idea come from? Perserker tries to go for more of a viking motif at least, but how does any of this work as a spin-off to the Lucky Cat or even just a house cat in general? G. Meowth just looks like Cousin Itt from the Addam's Family more than any discernible creature, so I don't see how it progresses to a Viking since it's just a hairball more than having a beard or such like the evo's motif. The Steel typing doesn't even make sense to me based on its being based on Norwegian Forest Cats (which still could have their feline body shape seen even with the prominent beard/upper coat) kept on Seafaring ships (how does that make its coat iron-like?)

Third, why Meowth again? Different from point one where I criticized the design's resemblance to its basis, my grievance here is why Meowth was even the choice for a variant after just getting one last gen. For Anime shilling they already gave Kantonian Meowth a Gigantamax form, and it's not like Galar was short of Kantonian Regionals (besides Meowth, 8/12 other Lines with Galarian Regionals originated from Gen 1 if we include DLC). Why shill this thing again right after a host of stuff pushing Kanto Meowth including/because of the Anime character?

Perrserker should have just been a single-stage mon, rather than bound to Persian's awful BST or shill-featuring a 2nd Regional Variant that's not going to be marketed in favor of the original anyway.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Galarian Meowth does actually have a beard like Perrserker, it's just hard to notice from the front because there's no dividing line between its beard and its face, and it also hides most of its torso so it ends up being easily mistakable for its torso.

I originally assumed they gave Meowth a Galarian form because they wanted every new region having a regional Meowth to be a running gag, but then the sort-of-new region Hisui didn't get one and neither did the definitely-new region Paldea so I dunno what's up with Galarian Meowth anymore.

 

[Esserise]

Third, why Meowth again? Different from point one where I criticized the design's resemblance to its basis, my grievance here is why Meowth was even the choice for a variant after just getting one last gen.

I dunno, to me this always seemed like a smart move in hindsight. Not necessarily in the sense of using Meowth again specifically, but I think it was a good decision in general to give a Galarian Form to a Pokémon that already received an Alolan Form, because it was still only the second outing for the concept. Having a Pokémon to demonstrate that a single Pokémon could have various different forms depending on the region, and that those forms could be substantially different from each other (to the point that Galarian Meowth doesn’t even evolve into Persian anymore) makes a lot of sense to me as an efficient way to demonstrate the flexibility and potential of the regional form concept.

As it happens, I think Wiglett works well along similar lines. By basing it on a Pokémon that received a regional form previously, it sort of helps to make it clear that there’s a distinction between the established regional form phenomenon, and what’s going on with these cases of convergent evolution.

 

[mertyville]

Well this is spoilers for Scarlet and Violet DLC

Hide

So if anyone has played Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and read the Scarlet or Violet Books, they know about the imaginary Pokemon that could have been. The what looks like an ancester to the legendary beasts and perhaps Eevee as well as the future Sword of Justice. Both design and theme wise were nice ways to complement their respective lore.
Paradox Legendary Beast would give more insight to Ho-Oh's power which may revive Pokemon tapping their old genetics. So much theory material just in that one Pokemon and how it relates to everything. The design is just magnificent and feels well thoughtout. Not some mishmash hoping something sticks. That would be the Scarlet counterpart which still is nice as it is a robot. So you think in the future someone tried to make the ultimate sword of justice adding features of the original 3 into 1. Cobalion's leadership and decision making powers. Terrakions strength. Virizion's intellect.

Instead, the DLC just gives us Paradox Versions of 1 member of each trio: Suicune and Virizion.
Suicune as a choice makes sense. Virizion feels kinda random. It can be justified as it is the "smart one" and the future suppose to be about big brain instead of muscle bound force but it hardly feels out of left field because unlike Suicune it doesn't have much of a big presents in its group.

What they have done to Suicune I can't forgive. The design isn't bad if Suicune didn't exist. The fact they designed this as past version of Suicune is baffling. A freaking raptor. Dinosaur Suicune. The complete opposite to the elegant beast we got. Suicune is one of the earliest legends and giving it such a treatment feels wrong to me.

Imagine they made a Past Paradox version of Mew, but instead of a cat-like thing, it was just a bird with a large peck and can't learn nearly as many moves. It is Psychic/Flying. Where did the part go it suppose to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
Or imagine there was a past paradox Mewtwo, it would raise so many questions to how something like that can exist. Let's they he used to be a triceratops with Psychic/Bug typing.

This is so off putting to me. If it were a more recent Pokemon where we didn't know much about and not with a big lore, maybe I can buy that.

Imagine someone went to Eusine and told him Suicune used to be a raptor with a big peck in the past, I wonder how he would react. Probably send out his Electrode and order it to explode.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Or imagine there was a past paradox Mewtwo, it would raise so many questions to how something like that can exist.

That's the point.

These things shouldn't exist. But they do. Somehow.

 

[R_N]

i think pterodactyl mew and bug mewtwo would be pretty cool

 

[Pikachu315111]

So if anyone has played Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and read the Scarlet or Violet Books, they know about the imaginary Pokemon that could have been. The what looks like an ancester to the legendary beasts and perhaps Eevee as well as the future Sword of Justice. Both design and theme wise were nice ways to complement their respective lore.
Paradox Legendary Beast would give more insight to Ho-Oh's power which may revive Pokemon tapping their old genetics. So much theory material just in that one Pokemon and how it relates to everything. The design is just magnificent and feels well thoughtout. Not some mishmash hoping something sticks. That would be the Scarlet counterpart which still is nice as it is a robot. So you think in the future someone tried to make the ultimate sword of justice adding features of the original 3 into 1. Cobalion's leadership and decision making powers. Terrakions strength. Virizion's intellect.

Instead, the DLC just gives us Paradox Versions of 1 member of each trio: Suicune and Virizion.
Suicune as a choice makes sense. Virizion feels kinda random. It can be justified as it is the "smart one" and the future suppose to be about big brain instead of muscle bound force but it hardly feels out of left field because unlike Suicune it doesn't have much of a big presents in its group.

What they have done to Suicune I can't forgive. The design isn't bad if Suicune didn't exist. The fact they designed this as past version of Suicune is baffling. A freaking raptor. Dinosaur Suicune. The complete opposite to the elegant beast we got. Suicune is one of the earliest legends and giving it such a treatment feels wrong to me.

Surprised you haven't heard about it till now, but there's strong evidence supporting a theory that the Paradox Pokemon aren't actually Pokemon from the past or future. They're Pokemon the "Disc" Pokemon (not sure if saying anything more than that is a spoiler, at least in this context?) described in the Scarlet/Violet Book created from the imagination of people (for what reason hopefully the DLC will explain). If I were to "theorize" how it happened:

1. Member of the Area Zero Expedition comes up with example drawings of the Paradox Pokemon they've come across down in Area Zero.
   
   
2. The Disc Pokemon, sensing the strong imagination, tries to recreate these imagined Pokemon.
   
   
3. Somehow, it was able to gain the essence of a Suicune and Virizion, but not of the other members of their trios.
   
   
4. The Disc Pokemon worked with what it got, using the Terastal Phenomenon to create an even more beastly Suicune and a mechanized Virizion to best match the intent of the imagined Pokemon.

Imagine they made a Past Paradox version of Mew, but instead of a cat-like thing, it was just a bird with a large peck and can't learn nearly as many moves. It is Psychic/Flying. Where did the part go it suppose to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
Or imagine there was a past paradox Mewtwo, it would raise so many questions to how something like that can exist. Let's they he used to be a triceratops with Psychic/Bug typing.

A Paradox of the Mew Duo does sound like a fun idea. Would an Ancient Mew become an avian? Not sure, if I were to change Mew from the cat-like mammal design I would probably make it something from the Cambrian era; probably a kind of Lobopodia. Or take inspiration from the Ancient Mew card, I can see an alternate interpretation of the art of it being maybe an aquatic mammal such as a Protocetidae (extinct ancestor of the whale, though instead of their back legs shrinking & front becoming fins it'll be the opposite for Mew to match the artwork). Mewtwo would obviously be the Future Pokemon, and they could finally put Armor Mewtwo into the games (now THAT would be a cool robot Pokemon I don't think anyone would argue seeing).

Imagine someone went to Eusine and told him Suicune used to be a raptor with a big peck in the past, I wonder how he would react. Probably send out his Electrode and order it to explode.

• Morty: Hey Eusine, did you read this article from the Paldea region? Apparently they have this crater filled with these strange Pokemon from past and one is an ancestor of Suicune.
• Eusine: WHAT?! That's preposterous! Suicune and its siblings were created by Ho-Oh, they don't have an "ancestor" to be related to!
• Morty: Here, read for yourself.
• Eusine: Let me see... Walking Wake... that thing looks more related to Tyranitar than Suicune!
• Morty: I mean, it's the same colors, body patterns, has the head crest...
• Eusine: It's a bipedal dinosaur with two tails, a furry mane, spikes teeth, and the exaggerated crest looks to be made of a hard bone substance like Stantler's antlers than the smooth crystalline substance adorning Suicune. If you're going to believe this thing is a relative to Suicune you may as well believe Luvdisc evolves into Alomomola!
• Morty: Come on now. I mean the Legendary Beasts WERE reincarnated to what we know today. Who's to say they weren't reincarnated from dinosaur Pokemon?
• Eusine: Even if I were to entertain that idea, what does it matter? I'm interested in Suicune, not this "Walking Wake". It fits nowhere into the lore. When I'm presented concrete evidence from a scientific journal, not a tabloid "Occulture" gibberish, than I'll buy a ticket to Paldea and check it out myself.
• Morty: If you do tell me, wouldn't mind visiting Paldea, one of my favorite rappers is from there.

 

[Coronis]

Well this is spoilers for Scarlet and Violet DLC

Hide

So if anyone has played Pokemon Scarlet and Violet and read the Scarlet or Violet Books, they know about the imaginary Pokemon that could have been. The what looks like an ancester to the legendary beasts and perhaps Eevee as well as the future Sword of Justice. Both design and theme wise were nice ways to complement their respective lore.
Paradox Legendary Beast would give more insight to Ho-Oh's power which may revive Pokemon tapping their old genetics. So much theory material just in that one Pokemon and how it relates to everything. The design is just magnificent and feels well thoughtout. Not some mishmash hoping something sticks. That would be the Scarlet counterpart which still is nice as it is a robot. So you think in the future someone tried to make the ultimate sword of justice adding features of the original 3 into 1. Cobalion's leadership and decision making powers. Terrakions strength. Virizion's intellect.

Instead, the DLC just gives us Paradox Versions of 1 member of each trio: Suicune and Virizion.
Suicune as a choice makes sense. Virizion feels kinda random. It can be justified as it is the "smart one" and the future suppose to be about big brain instead of muscle bound force but it hardly feels out of left field because unlike Suicune it doesn't have much of a big presents in its group.

What they have done to Suicune I can't forgive. The design isn't bad if Suicune didn't exist. The fact they designed this as past version of Suicune is baffling. A freaking raptor. Dinosaur Suicune. The complete opposite to the elegant beast we got. Suicune is one of the earliest legends and giving it such a treatment feels wrong to me.

Imagine they made a Past Paradox version of Mew, but instead of a cat-like thing, it was just a bird with a large peck and can't learn nearly as many moves. It is Psychic/Flying. Where did the part go it suppose to be the ancestor of all Pokemon?
Or imagine there was a past paradox Mewtwo, it would raise so many questions to how something like that can exist. Let's they he used to be a triceratops with Psychic/Bug typing.

This is so off putting to me. If it were a more recent Pokemon where we didn't know much about and not with a big lore, maybe I can buy that.

Imagine someone went to Eusine and told him Suicune used to be a raptor with a big peck in the past, I wonder how he would react. Probably send out his Electrode and order it to explode.

Yeah I don’t get your reaction to Suicune at all, we know nothing about the beasts prior to their resurrection, in fact it makes quite a lot of sense (to me at least) that Ho-oh was unable to revive them in their original forms but was only able to revive part of their essence into a new form. For example, though obviously on a completely different scale, AZ’s Floette was probably just one of the normal flower patterns, was it not the resurrection via the Ultimate Weapon what caused its unique form?

 

[Pikachu315111]

For example, though obviously on a completely different scale, AZ’s Floette was probably just one of the normal flower patterns, was it not the resurrection via the Ultimate Weapon what caused its unique form?

No, AZ's Floette always had the Eternal Flower. It was specially raised by AZ's mother to be attached to the rare flower. Now, due to being resurrected by the Ultimate Weapon it seemed to have become more powerful than a normal Floette (and is no longer able to evolve; though who knows if that's just because it's incapable of fusing with the Eternal Flower like other Floette can do with their flower) and knows the Move Light of Ruin.

 

[Coronis]

No, AZ's Floette always had the Eternal Flower. It was specially raised by AZ's mother to be attached to the rare flower. Now, due to being resurrected by the Ultimate Weapon it seemed to have become more powerful than a normal Floette (and is no longer able to evolve; though who knows if that's just because it's incapable of fusing with the Eternal Flower like other Floette can do with their flower) and knows the Move Light of Ruin.

Huh, is that confirmed anywhere? Never read that before.

Anyhow either way it still makes sense that resurrection would change a Pokemon, whether design or power wise, or both.

 

[Ironmage]

Huh, is that confirmed anywhere? Never read that before.

Anyhow either way it still makes sense that resurrection would change a Pokemon, whether design or power wise, or both.

Despite never being obtainable, Floette-eternal had a full set of stats and movepool for a while. These included a BST of 551 (compared to regular Floette's 371) and a signature move with high power and recoil.