Big Lord of the Rings Mafia - Game Over! Forces of Sauron Win!

Gonna take this quick opportunity to point out that imperfectluck and Walrein have both yet to post here (forgive me if they mentioned in signups that they were going to be busy in the early game. We could use input from you guys! Also I realized that if I'm voting TheGottemer to get him to speak up I should probably tag him. Now then.

Another thing that bothers me is that TIK didn't attempt to talk to DLE on Night 0. If he really thought DLE was his ally at the time, wouldn't he attempt to talk to him about general game plan for Day 1, since they would not be able to communicate privately then? You can't say he had nothing to discuss with his partner, since talking about what to think of and say to Ullar is a good topic. You could argue against this point by saying he was just being an idle villager. Although, he said "Ive spent too much time in past games idling because i was a stupid villager so I decided to throw some caution to the wind and play." in post #118.

He claims to have realized DLE wasn't his partner around the time of post #154. However, Ditto posted about DLE being a host in post #141, about 1 hour and 15 minutes earlier. You could argue against this point by saying he wasn't attentive to this post.

Is it realistic to think he was confused about his role PM, he didn't talk to DLE on N0, and wasn't attentive to a previous post while he was being put under vote pressure?

One way to 'solve' this problem may be something Agape kinda suggested earlier. We could get a majority of votes (maybe 23) on one target, and of the voters would be TIK. Then, all the Rohirrim and remaining people (maybe 20) vote TIK. If TIK is Rohirrim himself, he won't be speared to death. This would obviously create a list of potential Rohirrim for the mafia to go after, so I am not at all 100% condoning this idea. I'm just presenting it as a possibility, and it could be something used in the future. However, I do think we are being sort of protective of our Soldiers and Rohorrim. I thought these two roles were supposed to be vanilla villagers, only with a slight twist.

Please feel free to discuss these points and point out any flaws in my thinking.
I really like the point in the first few paragraphs here, and the more I think about it and the more I see arguments against him the more I can't help but think that TIK is scum. I have absolutely no idea what he could have been possibly thinking if he really thought DLE was his partner and not the host; did he not even bother to say hi to DLE on IRC before D1 started? I dunno, maybe not everyone plays mafia the same way I do, but if I have a partner you better believe the first thing I'm doing is talking to him and getting started on planning. He does say in post #154 that he was chatting with DLE and Sam when the game started and thus assumed DLE was his partner, but even then, you'd think he'd have PMed DLE immediately to figure out what the plan for the day was. Until we get a better explanation from TIK (and since I've finally realized that with 43 people in the game we can afford to have 10-15 votes on one person)

Unvote (still want TheGottemer to stop in and say hi though! ^_^)
Vote THE_IRON_KENYAN

I don't particularly like any plan that involves us manipulating the Rohirrim's ability because, as you pointed out Pidge, it makes it way too easy for the mafia to start whittling down who the Rohirrim are. Not to mention that if TIK is mafia and the mafia has a bodyguard they could easily just block the kill on TIK that they know is coming and then we'd all assume that TIK is clean. Admittedly, now that I think about it in order to get any use out of the Rohirrim ability we would need to do something similar (unless the lynch somehow gets blocked), so maybe we shouldn't be worried about that.

As for Agape, since there's been some recent discussion about him apparently, it seems like he's being the typical "hyper-aggresive call everyone out on d1" NOC player, which is usually a town play. After all, discussion for the town is always good. I'm willing to believe he's clean for the time being.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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I know that Walrein didn't speedrun last saturday because he'd be out of town for a week, curious as to why IPL isn't posting though.

Flamestrike said:
I don't particularly like any plan that involves us manipulating the Rohirrim's ability because, as you pointed out Pidge, it makes it way too easy for the mafia to start whittling down who the Rohirrim are.
The only alternative is not using the ability at all. If the Rohirrim vote with the majority, the person they vote for gets lynched anyway. I don't know why you'd want us to not use a tool we have.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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weren't you the one who was so concerned about about protecting the identities of the rohirrim
Yes, but it doesn't matter if we never use them. Thinking up things like the 60%/40% plan (not saying it is the best plan, but it is A plan) is what we need to do, anyone who thinks otherwise isn't thinking it through.

You could make an argument for not using them today or tomorrow, and you'd probably be right, but treating them like sheltered children is just taking a tool away from the village.
 
The only alternative is not using the ability at all. If the Rohirrim vote with the majority, the person they vote for gets lynched anyway. I don't know why you'd want us to not use a tool we have.
To be fair, I did mention a few lines later that after thinking about it I realized that any use of the ability gives the mafia info as to who the Rohirrim was, so that probably shouldn't be a consideration. I'd still rather use it as a night kill when (if?) we have more confirmed/likely targets than we can lynch, as opposed to it being a tool that can clean TIK.

And for what it's worth, I double checked signups and neither Walrein nor IPL mentioned anything about being unavailable for the early game, though von has vouched for Walrein at least. IPL should definitely step up and grace us with his presence unless he has a really good reason not to though.
 

Ullar

card-carrying wife-guy
is a Smogon Discord Contributor
Don't have much time, but:

Eagle4, I believe he is fearmongering in the name of 'investigation'

And zorbees is kinda off my scum dar actually, so unvote

I worry for this TIK lynch, but we'll see how it goes. You guys seem set on it, so...yeah.
 

Bass

Brother in arms
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnus
I have read through the thread and this particular quote caught my attention:

I am going to vote to Lynch Celever. Celever only joined this bandwagon after the evidence and votes had piled on, and unlike Pidge offered nothing useful to say about the matter. But more than that, if Celever was village he would be stirring up more of a shitstorm in the midst of all this. We've all taken valid potshots at Ullar but Celever of all people stays quiet? Even in lynching TIK, you'd expect a village celever to make a more rambling nonsensical post about why TIK should be lynched. This is Celever laying low, and I want to know why.
Sorry, but I am not buying it. If enough good reasons have already been posted for lynching someone, why is it unacceptable to merely point out that you agree with them as a means of justifying your vote? It really comes off as a rather weak argument for lynching someone. If anything, I would be more wary of the people who bandwagon earlier, as holding off on voting a little bit is a sign that the poster in question is trying to carefully consider the evidence. Of course, this is day 1 and there isn't really much evidence to speak of, which is why we are mindlessly slinging accusations around. I am of the opinion that you can't really gauge one's scumminess based on how active they are, though you can also chalk up a lot of my perspective from my own lack of experience with NOC's.

To the people calling out others to post, keep in mind that we are maybe only halfway done with the day at best. Some of us are working full time jobs, so you shouldn't expect every single player to become involved right away. Then again, I was under the impression that ipl was a NEET so in his case who knows...

As far as my vote goes, I will tentatively cast it as...

Lynch THE_IRON_KENYAN

I would like to emphasize 'tentative' of course, because to be honest TIK is the type of person that could misinterpret the info he was given to him. That said I have yet to see any better alternatives being named, as the log given by Ullar is the only piece of evidence we have that has come from outside this thread, strictly speaking.
 

vonFiedler

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This is a case of knowing Celever and his playstyle, if he was certain about TIK he'd want to own it. He'd want people to think that in retrospect it was his idea. If Celever is mafia and knows that TIK isn't, then it would be wiser not to do this.

Frankly I was obviously more certain at the time that TIK wasn't mafia, but I'll still say this; all we know for sure is that TIK has made some errors. Errors that could make him mafia, or that could make him village. I don't think this as anything other than a bandwagon, as you said, the day is not even half over.
 

imperfectluck

Banned deucer.
I think it would be nice to have the Rohirrim use the ability, but I can see the other side of the argument that the mafia may whittle the Rohirrim down. However, wouldn't we at least have us a nice group of semi-masons to start with, and perhaps the Rohirrims could absorb a few hits for the better roles on the village, should the mafia decide to hit them?
 
If I'm understanding the role correctly, the mafia wouldn't even have to kill any of the Rohirrim. Instead, they would just silence (or any form of vote control really) one and the Rohirrim would effectively be vanillagers. If anything, the mafia would want to keep outted Rohirrim alive to continue to silence. So basically, to any Rohirrim reading this, I'd recommend staying under the radar.

This is, of course, assuming the mafia have some form of vote control, which doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
I am going to vote to Lynch Celever. Celever only joined this bandwagon after the evidence and votes had piled on, and unlike Pidge offered nothing useful to say about the matter. But more than that, if Celever was village he would be stirring up more of a shitstorm in the midst of all this. We've all taken valid potshots at Ullar but Celever of all people stays quiet? Even in lynching TIK, you'd expect a village celever to make a more rambling nonsensical post about why TIK should be lynched. This is Celever laying low, and I want to know why.
Put quite simply, I'm already squeezing enough out of my limited time, I can't be too active in this game. Notice how I only have 2 posts itt? If I had made my regular amount of posts AND barely pushed TIK's lynch at all then I agree I would be scummy, but I haven't. I've only made 2 posts, one RVS and one (and I don't deny) just jumping on the TIK lynch once evidence piled up...

I also understand you'll return and say:
IRL reasons are the favourite excuse of scum.
But unfortunately this is the only excuse I have; the truth.

As for the other happenings, I do believe that Ullar is village right now. I believe he is playing VERY badly, but I agree he is village. It strikes me as a little odd, since usually he plays well actually, but that's neither here nor there really. Why do I believe he is village? Well he plays a lot differently when he is mafia. He plays in a sort of... actively doing nothing kind of style, so we believe he is town but he doesn't contribute at all. This is actively doing SOMETHING, so I feel like he must be town, for now, anyway. I can easily see this rather bad argument getting debunked lol.

I believe that von is town, too, just because he's being very active, but at the same time he's being a helpful member of the town actually coordinating things.

Agape I'm much more on the fence with, since he seems to be playing passive-aggressively. Sometimes he thinks "IF I HIT THIS WITH A HAMMER IT DIES" and the rest of the time he's contributing just fine. This reminds me a lot of LW's play in the last NOC, and we all know how that turned out (huge arguments between me and him which completely stopped other contribution for a couple of days) so I'll leave it for now lol. I also don't really have time to post more, since this was my first alert out of 12 on these forums alone, so... adios.
 
I kind of worded things wrong there. I meant catch up.
Ok, from what I have seen so far, the general consensus seems to be that TIK is scummy. I also noticed that I wasn't the only one who had IRL reasons they couldn't post, but I think being without internet is a valid excuse. At the risk of being accused of bandwagoning again,
Vote: THE_IRON_KENYAN
 
I kind of think it's unlikely there's a silence because silences in NOC are super lame, and yeah this isn't quite NOC but it's Close Enough. That said wouldn't be terribly surprised if there was one? tbh if the mafia was gonna silence the Rohirrim the silenced one might as well just suicide for the good of the town.

Pidge makes a good argument about TIK but I don't really know TIK well enough to know how good an argument this is. People are lazy in games (source: I'm lazy) so it's entirely possible TIK didn't bother (maybe he was waiting for DLE to say something, idk). Is it bad play? Yeah. But just because someone did something stupid doesn't mean they're scum.

For example, consider this: If TIK was scum and playing properly, wouldn't he have gone over his fakeclaim with his team beforehand and/or known not to claim he knew the other members of the Rohirrim, especially when he actually didn't? That seems ridiculously careless. It would mean that not only would TIK not know how the Rohirrim worked, but so did every member of his team that he talked to.
 
In immediate retrospect saying Pidge made a good argument is probably false because I don't really think it's a good argument. "Interesting point" I guess?
 
I talked with TIK in vampire mafia and got the impression that he needed to be walked through every step of his role PM. There's a realistic chance he's being sincere here, but it's clear from the Ullar log that he was completely confused with the structure of the game. If he was rohirrim as claimed, the one striking point in the conversation is that he claims the Soldiers of Gondor all know each other.
  1. 11:24 THE_IRON_KENYAN alright, do you want to know why the maf cant claim soldiers of gondor?
  2. 11:25 Ullar ok
  3. 11:25 Ullar go for it
  4. 11:25 THE_IRON_KENYAN because they are a group
  5. 11:25 THE_IRON_KENYAN and a useless role
  6. 11:25 THE_IRON_KENYAN so another person of the group wouldnt be afraid to back them up
  7. 11:26 THE_IRON_KENYAN that would pretty much seal the deal
This shows he thinks the soldiers of gondor know all of each other, just as (he thought) rohirrim knew each other. Even if he only knew DLE as a teammate, there's little reason to think the soldiers of gondor were united.
 
Alright, so first of all I believe that TIK is the proper lynch here. The conversation with Ullar is pretty damning as is his pretty weak defense. There isn't much logic in the soldiers and the riders being united at the start. However I see no need to put the vote down yet since there are plenty already. As far as other riders claiming, it is an interesting dilemma. I think IPL has some sense when trying to get the vigilante kill started early, but to do that we would have to know all the riders. Beyond that, it is very easy to fake that claim as TIK is demonstrating. I think for now it is probably best for them to not claim and wait for a TIK to flip since regardless of his alliance we will get some information. Either he was stupid mafia, or he was a rider and people like eagle4 become more suspect with his pushing for riders to claim to "save" TIK. I don't feel like no lynch is going to get us many places though, so if we are going to mislynch I believe a rider is as good a place as any since a large number makes using the kill rather difficult.
 

Da Letter El

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Vote Count:

Blue_Tornado (0): zorbees
vonFiedler (2): askaninjask, Paperblade
Pidge (1): Mithril, Celever
Walrein/Steven Snype (1): Acklow
THE_IRON_KENYAN (11): Aura_Guardian, UllarWarlord, zorbees, Eagle4, Agape, YAYTears, Pidge, theangryscientist, Celever, Blue_Tornado, Agape, Flamestrike, Bass, TheGottemer
Eagle4 (0): ginganinja
Ditto (1): Ditto, zorbees, Metal Sonic
RODAN (0): billymills
macle (1): imanalt
Lightwolf (1): Blue_Tornado, billymills
zorbees (1): Ditto, UllarWarlord
billymills (1): LightWolf
UllarWarlord (0): Agape, TheGottemer
Agape (0): Blue_Tornado
Celever (1): Eagle4, vonFiedler
Flamestrike (0): Agape
TheGottemer: Flamestrike

No Lynch (1): Eagle4

Players are listed in the order in which the first vote was placed on them, with no lynch being listed separately. I may have made mistakes but I sort of doubt it. Please note if I did and I will edit accordingly.

With 43 players, it takes 22 players for majority.
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
It's 22 to lynch, so TIK is at L-11 right now.

I'm also going to Unvote for a moment. I think that TIK might just have been high, like Ullar suggested. We all know that he misses things very easily in posts, so I wouldn't really put it past him. I'm OK with his lynch, though.

Also nice vote Ditto. I still have my cute Snover though, so his tyranny is yet to affect me! :3
 

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