Low Ubers

Which one is the worst Uber in your opinion?

  • Latios

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Latias

    Votes: 3 0.9%

  • Wobbuffet

    Votes: 52 16.3%

  • Manaphy

    Votes: 62 19.4%

  • Ho-oh

    Votes: 26 8.1%

  • Mew

    Votes: 27 8.4%

  • Deoxys-D

    Votes: 7 2.2%

  • Deoxys-A

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Deoxys (balanced)

    Votes: 102 31.9%

  • Other

    Votes: 39 12.2%
  • Total voters
    320
Deoxys (balanced) is the weakest uber. its actually outclassed by something else in the uber class =\.

also, to get off topic, imo, the poke closest to moving to OU would be darkrai.
limited movepool, plus it has base stat sweeping capabilities of the typical OU (Pory-Z, gengar are the ones that come to mind obviously), but not nearly the movepool of them. sure it has dark void, but thats only 10% more accuracy than hypnosis. also, its ability is weak. =\
 
I still think that 125 speed makes Darkrai completely different from something like PZ or Gengar.

I'll put it like this: Weavile's speed and Porygon Z's Special attack on a poke with defenses comperable to Zapdos (Zap has 20 more base HP, Darkrai has 5 more defense). While it has way less HP (30), I think we'd do well not to forget that Darkrai has the same defense/sp.DEF stats as Swampert . . .

Edit: I know there are people who don't like 'em but according to DT's Defense tiers, Darkrai is on the same defense/special defense tier as Spiritomb-- which means he has the base stats to match the physical defenses of Likitung and the special defense of magnezone . . .

A pokemon designed as a sweeper with BST of 600 is different from a pokemon designed as a sweeper with only 530, as Garchomp has proven again and again. Like with Garchomp, I think you'll find in combat this thing proves itself bulkier than your typical sweeper.

But with far superior speed, and even superior offense stat compared to Garchomp . . . with darkvoid.
 
Ok, but Swampert actually invests a lot of EVs into its defenses and he also usually has a defensive personality.

I can't really see Darkrai bothering with defense EVs or even a defensive personality which means that he's still going to have a bunch of trouble taking hits. If he does invest a lot in the defenses, it's going to lose A LOT of offense, and remember, Swampert and Zapdos have amazing defensive typings, but Darkrai's really isn't that good.

Remember, there's so many pokemon that randomly run Choice Scarf that can beat out Darkrai's speed after it that he probably won't live through their attacks since chances are they're wearing the Choice Scarf because they have high offenses themselves.

EDIT: Never mind, we're not allowed to make threads about discussion of uber status for some reason anyway. I guess if there's anything to discuss it has to be in this topic. Bleh.
 
^lol I think you're right Bologo

Anyway you're right about Darkrai won't be investing the evs/personality like Spiritomb would, but doesn't that tell you something even more scary?

"I could have the same walling stats as spiritomb if I wanted to-- but I got even better things to do."

Just like Garchomp says, "I could be as good a wall as Swampert-- but I've got even better things to do."

Isn't that freaking scary? Don't you think that's scary!? What others do as their very best skill, I could do it if I wanted but I'm even better at what I do!

I mean yeah, no one is going to use Darkrai as a wall. That wasn't my point. I'm just saying that isn't it nuts when a sweeper of that magnitude can have those types of defenses?

In any case those stats still mean that this thing is running at the same pace as weavile, smashing things way harder, and taking way less damage from what attacks do hit it . . .
 
For the sake of being on topic, I'll analyze each uber and give my opinion on how close to OU it is or if it should be OU.
Arecues.: No way, way too powerful, and the ability to be any type... Hell No!
Darkrai: I think this can be OU, because after sleep clause is in effect, it's not that different from other special or mixed attackers. Yes,but needs testing.
Deoxy: all forms except of speed, should be uber, the first two have way too much attack, and the third one can out stall whole teams. No, expect the speed form.
Dialga: Offensive and Defensive sets that good, think Mixmence, but on way more scary. No
Giratina: No way! With awesome typing and stats, it would be too much.No
Groudon: Did you think Tyranitar was scary? Well meat his big Brother, Choice Banded/Sword Danced Earthquakes would ko a lot of things. No!
Kyogre: choice scarf'd water spouts. Nuff said. No!
Latias: Latias would still easily set up with bulky defenses. No with soul dew, but I'm all for testing without soul dew in OU
Latios: see Latias. No with soul dew, but needs to be tested without in OU
Lugia: Think cressilia, but with way better moves, defenses, ability, and looks. No
Manaphy: Seems okay to test. Ok, but needs testing
Mew: No! This thing has out stall whole teams, go physical and beat skarmory, go special and beat blissey, go mixed and beat the crap out of everything, baton pass, support, the team, and way more! Nope!
Mewtwo: This thing has way to much special attack, diversity, speed, and over stat total to even be considered. No
Palkia: Good defenses, Offense, and Movepool. No
Rayquaza: This is what you get when you combine all 3 OU dragons together. It can DD and Outrage like Dragonite on steroids, Can choice specs to do tons of damage like Salamence, Can go Mixed like Salamence, and it can Sword Dance like Garchomp. Also its bulky so ice beamers need a lot of special attack to ko it, and it has 150 in both attacking stats. Of Course not.
Wobbufect: I can see this on stall teams. Needs to be tested, but I say yes.

Also Xtreem, Have you ever even tried Mew in Ubers, its damn good, and I see it occasionally.
 
I agree with The Rider.
Manaphy is just like, let's say, Shedinja (Feels bad comparing them)
Shedinja does belong to UU (or BL?) but it can work better in Uber since there's rarely a Sandstorms/Hail abuser. It just need spin help... and some luck, but that's just a bad example.
In my opinion, Manaphy is OU material that enjoys a moveslot in Uber.
 
Brawlex said:
For the sake of being on topic, I'll analyze each uber and give my opinion on how close to OU it is or if it should be OU.
Arecues.: No way, way too powerful, and the ability to be any type... Hell No!
Lol hell no
Darkrai: I think this can be OU, because after sleep clause is in effect, it's not that different from other special or mixed attackers. Yes,but needs testing.
It's fairly bulky, and has a nice movepool, great stat distribution, even with sleep clause its just a little too much for OU i think
Deoxy: all forms except of speed, should be uber, the first two have way too much attack, and the third one can out stall whole teams. No, expect the speed form.
Speed might be a little broken in OU, but I'd say useless in ubers. So i dunno.
Dialga: Offensive and Defensive sets that good, think Mixmence, but on way more scary. No
no...
Giratina: No way! With awesome typing and stats, it would be too much.No
no...
Groudon: Did you think Tyranitar was scary? Well meat his big Brother, Choice Banded/Sword Danced Earthquakes would ko a lot of things. No!
no...
Kyogre: choice scarf'd water spouts. Nuff said. No!
still no...
Latias: Latias would still easily set up with bulky defenses. No with soul dew, but I'm all for testing without soul dew in OU
Without dew, its eh in ubers, but its typing and movepool i think would still make it broken in OU
Latios: see Latias. No with soul dew, but needs to be tested without in OU
same
Lugia: Think cressilia, but with way better moves, defenses, ability, and looks. No
nuh uh
Manaphy: Seems okay to test. Ok, but needs testing
Again, movepool, stats, somewhat the ability but even regardless...
Mew: No! This thing has out stall whole teams, go physical and beat skarmory, go special and beat blissey, go mixed and beat the crap out of everything, baton pass, support, the team, and way more! Nope!
nope
Mewtwo: This thing has way to much special attack, diversity, speed, and over stat total to even be considered. No
no
Palkia: Good defenses, Offense, and Movepool. No
no
Rayquaza: This is what you get when you combine all 3 OU dragons together. It can DD and Outrage like Dragonite on steroids, Can choice specs to do tons of damage like Salamence, Can go Mixed like Salamence, and it can Sword Dance like Garchomp. Also its bulky so ice beamers need a lot of special attack to ko it, and it has 150 in both attacking stats. Of Course not.
no
Wobbufect: I can see this on stall teams. Needs to be tested, but I say yes.
no, completely screws over anything choiced, and a lot of ubers are somewhat predictable, it hurts

Also Xtreem, Have you ever even tried Mew in Ubers, its damn good, and I see it occasionally.
Click to expand...

Haven't really said anything that hasn't already been said really...I think the uber tier is well defined
 
Darkrai is way too good for OU. Even in ubers, no one pokemon can counter Darkrai. You're pretty much required to sacrifice something to sleep and then switch to something that can tank 135 Special Attack, keeping in mind that Darkrai has access to both Taunt (gg Sleep Talk) and a movepool capable of hurting just about anything other than Fighting Arceus.
 
Manaphy w/o HydroRest totally sucks, and since permanent weather effect don't exist in the lower Metagames, I still don't understand why Manaphy is considered Uber. It's just as good as Celebi/Jirachi.

Also Deoxys-RS is pretty crappy, but those stats are just too good for OU.
 
I would totaly disagree altogether if people started thinking Wobbuffet was an OU Pokemon and not Uber. As many have stated before, Encore + Shadow Tag is demonic, way too demonic actually. It allows "Free set-up fodder"!

Lati@s is one that might deserve testing. The stupid thing is is that there's no way to really "test" out if they are equipped with Soul Dew or not without Frisk users and such. Too bad DD Latios can't be considered for OU, since he's even weaker than the DD Feraligatr (without including the Special Attack). The only thing that probably keeps people from thinking of them being in OU is the damned Soul Dew and Calm Mind.

I guess Deoxys-S is ok for OU. 150 is kind of big for physical offense, but it's not like he can boost it (he can boost Special Attacks, but not with those par defenses).

...What about Ho-oh even? His Special Defense is high, I'll admit, but the Stealth Rock weakness cuts down it's uses from switching in a lot. One that COULD use testing for OU maybe?
 
Colonel M said:
Lati@s is one that might deserve testing. The stupid thing is is that there's no way to really "test" out if they are equipped with Soul Dew or not without Frisk users and such.
Click to expand...

Considering that Colin will add a "Unobtainable Event Pokémon Clause" on Shoddy's next update, I think he could add a "Soul Dew Lati@s Clause" too.

You (we?) just need to convince him Lati@s deserve testing.
 
Keep in Mind that Ho-oh can burn with sacred fire, so it can mix wall in a way, and it can easily recover off damage...
 
Can I just remind everyone that Manaphy has already been tested in OU extensively. I love the little dude, but he was way too powerful. Maybe there are currently some Pokemon in OU that are just as powerful, but lets not let our mistakes influence our correct decisions...

No, 100/100/100 defenses with Heal Bell and Recover would completely overcentralize the metagame to the point where everything is carrying HP Bug to deal with it.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I really do love you a lot.
 
I think that Wobbuffet deserves a chance in OU, and Lati@s with no Soul Dew too. If you can do a clause like Double Team one, they could do other with Soul Dew clause. You could tell me that Lati@s is like Specsmence but with better Sp. Attack. However, do you really see Specsmences in Shoddy? I only see Mixed ones, and in this, Salamence is better than the brothers. Blissey can counter both (Latios and Latias).
 
Blissey can counter both (Latios and Latias).
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Safeguard/Recover/Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse thinks otherwise. That set was quite common when the Latis were tested in OU (although it was obviously Claw>Pulse), and Blissey never got a look in.
 
Ehh, can't Registeel counter the Latis? Unless they actually bother to carry Earthquake, Registeel is going to be taking very little from their attacks since he resists most of them and he can easily destroy them with Ice Punch as their physical defenses are rather mediocre at 80/80 and 80/90.
 
It's gonna be kinda hard to recover when they're getting hit by a super-effective hit. Registeel can still use attack EVs to make it enough to OHKO their physical defense with Ice Punch since their physical defense is only OK. Even after a Calm Mind, they won't be doing that much to him. If worse comes to worse, Registeel explodes, and they die.
 
I've probably used Wobbuffet in DP more than anyone else, and I can say that he's definitely ready for serious OU testing with a strong presumption he's not broken unlike, well, everyone else on that list. Too much kills him too fast; he just doesn't live long enough and has a lot of trouble switching in. If people wouldn't be idiots and use random non-offensive moves against him and instead just wildly attack, he'd never take more than one Pokemon down with him, making him nothing but a trade Pokemon. Okay, there's a little more to him than that, but it's really not easy to get more than one Pokemon's worth out of Wobbuffet unlike it is with, again, everyone else on that list. He's really not like he was in RSE; he's way worse and no one competent could possibly claim he's just as good. You might argue he's way worse but still uber (he was definitely uber in RSE), but he doesn't seem that way based on my experiences battling with him.

To those who voted standard Deoxys, I have to call you somewhat silly. He's totally outclassed (though he can be EV'd to survive random priority moves unlike his brother), but he's still quite powerful. He'd be a powerful uber if you just pretended Deoxys's attack form didn't exist.

Manaphy had its chance in standard and butchered a lot of stuff. It's probably number two on the list, but it needs to be below Wobbuffet because, of the two ambiguous ubers on the list, it had way more of a chance so we can be way more sure that it probably doesn't belong in standard.
 
Amazing Ampharos said:
If people wouldn't be idiots and use random non-offensive moves against him and instead just wildly attack, he'd never take more than one Pokemon down with him
Click to expand...

Isn't that something no pokemon in OU can actually do? Sure, a lot of them have the potential to take down a whole team, but then other times they'll take nothing at all. They can't reliably beat another pokemon. Even against something they beat, it can switch out. If Wobbuffet can do that, there'd be no reason not to include it on every team. And strategies for stopping Wobbuffet would need to be on every team. But if it's going to be fainting without doing that much a lot of the time, then I guess there's no reason not to allow it.
 
Yeah, it's really not that hard to counter Wobbuffet in OU. I mean, come on, U-Turn was basically meant to counter him and there's a lot of pokemon that carry it. CB Scizor can damn near OHKO or completely OHKO with U-Turn and if the guy's gonna hit the next pokemon with counter, most teams have a ghost on it to block Rapid Spin, so then you just switch in the Ghost who doesn't get hit by Counter, and then kill Wobuffet.

Wobuffet is one of the pokemon who's hard to counter with one pokemon 100% of the time, but is easily counterable with prediction.
 
Wobbuffet has plenty of counters. Let me list some:

Anything with Taunt.
Anything with an offensive stat-up move and at least one attack.
Anything powerful Dark/Bug/Ghost STAB.
Anything with Toxic.
Anything with Toxic Spikes.
Anything with Whirlwind/Roar.
Anything with U-Turn.
Another Wobbuffet/Wynaut.
Anything with a Sleep-inducing move.
Knock Off/Trick/Switcheroo in Sandstorm/Hail.
Burn/Poison in Sandstorm/Hail.
Anything powerful with Explosion.

All of these either kill Wobba, or make him switch out. Plus, there are the beauties that are prediction and hax to help you out.
 
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