That and Foul Play, which runs off of the attack stat of the pokemon it hits.
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Pokémon Magearna
- Thread starter Jukain
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That and Foul Play, which runs off of the attack stat of the pokemon it hits.
What a fantastic mon. Excellent typing, stats, ability and movepool. It's unpredictable as hell, with three equally viable main sets (Specs, Shift Gear Sweeper and AV). Also an excellent candidate for your team's Z-move. I'm currently running AV as a glue and with HP and SpA investment it lets you comfortably switch into some very scary stuff like Tapu Lele and Mega Zam. The number of things AV checks is honestly ridiculous.
I really like the dynamic of play AV Magearna creates against Magnezone, it often lets you exploit the Magnezone player which as a Steel type is rare. AV Magearna actually 1v1s Mag on its own but most people expect Specs (in my experience). Common scenario I've encountered is I click Fleur Cannon on a super effective or neutral target, Mag switches in and gets heavily chunked. At this point you just volt switch away into your Double Dance Lando T or Zard X and proceed to sweep. While it can't escape Dugtrio, I've often found that Magearna's sacrifice allows you to quickly turn the tables on the Dugtrio user with DD Lando.
I really like the dynamic of play AV Magearna creates against Magnezone, it often lets you exploit the Magnezone player which as a Steel type is rare. AV Magearna actually 1v1s Mag on its own but most people expect Specs (in my experience). Common scenario I've encountered is I click Fleur Cannon on a super effective or neutral target, Mag switches in and gets heavily chunked. At this point you just volt switch away into your Double Dance Lando T or Zard X and proceed to sweep. While it can't escape Dugtrio, I've often found that Magearna's sacrifice allows you to quickly turn the tables on the Dugtrio user with DD Lando.
i tend to overdo boosts so i probably have 2 boosts by the time i would be done and at 2x attack iron head can do some damage and it flinches 1/3 of the time anyway and it can stall for kills until soul-heart pulls through.
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 40 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / Charge Beam / Flash Cannon
- Shift Gear
My attempt at a bulky Shift Gear set that doesn't end up needing a +Spe nature. The Speed investment allows it to outrun +252 Spe Pheromosa by a single point after one Shift Gear, which is about the best you could ask for from a base 65 without sacrificing more EVs. The HP EVs give it a fair amount of bulk even without boosts to Def/SpD, so anything that isn't at "+252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp STAB Earthquake" levels of power will not OHKO Magearna before it gets Shift Gear off and will be summarily executed by its coverage. The third move depends on what blind spot you want Magearna to cover: Shadow Ball is an option to repel Aegislash and A-Marowak, Ice Beam blows away Ground-types looking to capitalize on its STAB weakness, Charge Beam gives a means to boost SpA while still doing damage, and Flash Cannon is the generic secondary STAB. I am also a supporter of the Fairium Z strategy since having access to Fleur Cannon gives Magearna the strongest Fairy-type nuke in the game as well as granting a mostly-free Soul-Heart boost, which is a unique niche that should absolutely be capitalized on.
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 40 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fleur Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / Charge Beam / Flash Cannon
- Shift Gear
My attempt at a bulky Shift Gear set that doesn't end up needing a +Spe nature. The Speed investment allows it to outrun +252 Spe Pheromosa by a single point after one Shift Gear, which is about the best you could ask for from a base 65 without sacrificing more EVs. The HP EVs give it a fair amount of bulk even without boosts to Def/SpD, so anything that isn't at "+252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp STAB Earthquake" levels of power will not OHKO Magearna before it gets Shift Gear off and will be summarily executed by its coverage. The third move depends on what blind spot you want Magearna to cover: Shadow Ball is an option to repel Aegislash and A-Marowak, Ice Beam blows away Ground-types looking to capitalize on its STAB weakness, Charge Beam gives a means to boost SpA while still doing damage, and Flash Cannon is the generic secondary STAB. I am also a supporter of the Fairium Z strategy since having access to Fleur Cannon gives Magearna the strongest Fairy-type nuke in the game as well as granting a mostly-free Soul-Heart boost, which is a unique niche that should absolutely be capitalized on.
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I want to say Hidden Power [Ground] would be a better alternative to Steel coverage to deal with Fire-types that otherwise wall Magearna, but with behemoths like Celesteela, Skarmory and (Mega) Scizor running rampant in OU right now, Shift Gear Magearna needs the Fire coverage to prevent its sweep from coming to a grinding halt. Though in that case I suppose you're right about Flash Cannon being the odd move out: it's a strong STAB, but otherwise doesn't nuke anything Fleur Cannon and HP Fire wouldn't already. I've fixed up my set with that knowledge.
As for the question of which coverage to use, I've found Shadow Ball or Charge Beam to be good for neutral damage across the board. Ice Beam less so since Fire-types wall it, but being able to blow up Garchomp without wasting a Fleur Cannon nuke or Twinkle Tackle has gotten me a few wins. If it takes a stroll through Ubers though, Groudon needs to be avoided like the plague, and Xerneas needs to be Twinkle Tackled before it gets Zeomancy up.
I could definitely see this thing being used as a great pivot or wall, but I don't really see it becoming a sweeper.
Aegislash has been banned, though Marowak could be a common switch-in because it resists both of Magearna's STABs. The only problem I forsee is that Marowak commonly invests in Special Defense, so a non-STAB, non-boosted, 80 BP move might not be enough to OHKO. Maybe if you Shadow Ball on the switch, but what if you use Shift Gear, or expect to hit a Ferrothorn with HP Fire?
What about:
Modest
252Hp 252SpA 4SpD
@Assault Vest
Volt Switch
Fleur Cannon
Flash Cannon
Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
Modest
252Hp 252SpA 4SpD
@Assault Vest
Volt Switch
Fleur Cannon
Flash Cannon
Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
I think that's the staple AV set. The only thing I'd tweak are some EVs (like 48 Speed EVs to outspeed base 70, and 4 Sp. Def. to give Genesect an Attack boost instead of an Sp. Atk. one)
So would volt switch be viable on a shift gear set?
why? you would lose all your boosts and you just wasted a turn setting up shift gear for nothing. better to just vs on the switch and pivot. why do you need VS anyway? would probably be better to have thunderbolt if you're just trying to lure in water types or whatever. but really, you should just have a teammate take care of those.
Guess so...thanks for the reply. I was intending on using Magearna with decidueye to form a volt-turn core, but I found shift gear too good to pass up.
You really can't have both. Magearna is a great bulky pivot or sweeper. Sweepers are a dime a dozen though; very few mons have the luxury of being bulky, hitting hard, having great coverage and enjoying a ton of resistances. Heatran is a prime example of this, and it doesn't get volt switch or u-turn.
This thing is nearly perfect for balance teams. Shift gear is a great move but I feel like it is a waste of a perfect balance mon to make it just another sweeper.
This thing is nearly perfect for balance teams. Shift gear is a great move but I feel like it is a waste of a perfect balance mon to make it just another sweeper.
So has anyone tried this:
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
I used Magearna on the successful TR team in my sig, using Air Balloon as an item to aid TR setting - but I always noticed Magearna was a little easy to wall. As people have mentioned already in this thread Twinkle Tackle Fleur Cannon is a beastly move, with 195 BP and more importantly no SpAtk drop for its use. Once that nets you a KO activating Soul Heart, your second Fleur Cannon then does identical damage to the Twinkle Tackle one and though you get the SpAtk drop, because you're already at the +1 already and get an additional +1 from the second KO, you're now reset to neutral. Opponents naturally send their best walls forth first, so when you get to the third pokemon in that line of (hopefully) OHKOes they should be now be unprepared for Magearna allowing for a mini-sweep or clean.
With that in mind, why not put that and TR together? Magearna has no great need for an item so running Fairium Z is perfectly acceptable, and while Shift Gear nets you a decent speed tier it's never so good as Trick Room with Magearna's already crap speed - allowing you to outspeed (by underspeeding) an enormous portion of the meta. Flash Cannon is your second STAB while Thunderbolt is IMO the best coverage - most steel types on the tier aren't weak to Aura Sphere anyway (Metagross, Jirachi, Celesteela, Skarmory) and T-Bolt hits all those mentioned for either higher neutral damage or SE damage, and hits targets like Toxapex too.
Having a look at the calcs, what really surprised me is this:
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 397-468 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I remember fighting a Hippowdon with my high ladder TR team and finding it a real struggle, as its low speed tier and strong EQ was causing a lot of problems. Magearna with Z-Fleur Cannon really does a number on it, which is extremely impressive considering it's a neutral hit and this set last gen was considered to be a "mixed wall". Additionally, there's this:
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 161-190 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 108-127 (35.8 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Across the two that gives 89.2% - 105.2% on Mega Metagross. I'm not quite sure how the probability of attack rolls work, but if every roll has equal probability than out of the 16% range of 89.2% - 105.2%, 5.2% percent of that is a KO, with an additional 6.25% a KO with SR damage. To me, that seems like (6.25 + 4.2) / 16 = 65% chance for the 2HKO after rocks. Not bad at all for something that should technically hard wall you, as with full HP investment you can take a Meteor Mash or EQ in your stride. With even a little residual, you should be able to pull of a 2HKO with Twinkle Tackle followed by T-Bolt even.
If anyone has tried this on TR, let me know how you found it to be. Also if the probability is much more nuanced for the Metagross calc I would be interested to find out! It seems like an extremely solid set for TR when you cover the ground and fire weaknesses, not even resists are going to enjoy that nuke.
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
I used Magearna on the successful TR team in my sig, using Air Balloon as an item to aid TR setting - but I always noticed Magearna was a little easy to wall. As people have mentioned already in this thread Twinkle Tackle Fleur Cannon is a beastly move, with 195 BP and more importantly no SpAtk drop for its use. Once that nets you a KO activating Soul Heart, your second Fleur Cannon then does identical damage to the Twinkle Tackle one and though you get the SpAtk drop, because you're already at the +1 already and get an additional +1 from the second KO, you're now reset to neutral. Opponents naturally send their best walls forth first, so when you get to the third pokemon in that line of (hopefully) OHKOes they should be now be unprepared for Magearna allowing for a mini-sweep or clean.
With that in mind, why not put that and TR together? Magearna has no great need for an item so running Fairium Z is perfectly acceptable, and while Shift Gear nets you a decent speed tier it's never so good as Trick Room with Magearna's already crap speed - allowing you to outspeed (by underspeeding) an enormous portion of the meta. Flash Cannon is your second STAB while Thunderbolt is IMO the best coverage - most steel types on the tier aren't weak to Aura Sphere anyway (Metagross, Jirachi, Celesteela, Skarmory) and T-Bolt hits all those mentioned for either higher neutral damage or SE damage, and hits targets like Toxapex too.
Having a look at the calcs, what really surprised me is this:
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 397-468 (94.5 - 111.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
I remember fighting a Hippowdon with my high ladder TR team and finding it a real struggle, as its low speed tier and strong EQ was causing a lot of problems. Magearna with Z-Fleur Cannon really does a number on it, which is extremely impressive considering it's a neutral hit and this set last gen was considered to be a "mixed wall". Additionally, there's this:
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 161-190 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross-Mega: 108-127 (35.8 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Across the two that gives 89.2% - 105.2% on Mega Metagross. I'm not quite sure how the probability of attack rolls work, but if every roll has equal probability than out of the 16% range of 89.2% - 105.2%, 5.2% percent of that is a KO, with an additional 6.25% a KO with SR damage. To me, that seems like (6.25 + 4.2) / 16 = 65% chance for the 2HKO after rocks. Not bad at all for something that should technically hard wall you, as with full HP investment you can take a Meteor Mash or EQ in your stride. With even a little residual, you should be able to pull of a 2HKO with Twinkle Tackle followed by T-Bolt even.
If anyone has tried this on TR, let me know how you found it to be. Also if the probability is much more nuanced for the Metagross calc I would be interested to find out! It seems like an extremely solid set for TR when you cover the ground and fire weaknesses, not even resists are going to enjoy that nuke.
Marowak is taking a drop in use because it was one of Genesect's more consistent checks.
Doesn't necessarily mean Marowak is any less effective against Magearna, and while it lost a significant boon with Genesect, it still is a pretty anti-meta tank that finds a role for checking things, or at least pressuring them to consider particular coverage moves (like EQ on Metagross), Magearna being one among that list. Any Magearna set without Shadow Ball is checked decently by Alolan Marowak, right down to an inability to Volt Switch, albeit sets with LO (or specs if that's a thing somewhere) can put a noticeable dent in Marowak. These calcs just use two spreads, one SpD oriented and one more "standard" from the Alolawak QC thread against Modest Max HP Magearna (not sure how much speed it runs, wanted to check most bulk for worst case scenario). Needs to also be careful about switching into Twinkle Tackle on Fairium-Z set, as that won't drop Magearna's SpA and that + Fleur Cannon KO's Alolawak (with any prior damage or Rocks for the SpD set) before it dents back with Fire Punch.
252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 164+ SpD Marowak-Alola: 136-162 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 182-214 (56.3 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 140-165 (43.3 - 51%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 210-248 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
96 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 270-318 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Some dicey situations, but the match up favors Alolawak enough that I'd call it a decent check. Being unable to Volt Switch is definitely a point of note to stop Momentum grabs, and neutral Shadow Bone puts a good dent in non-resists that aren't outright Physical walls, while also being pretty dangerous when two of OU's S-Ranks are Psychic types (one of them also afraid of Fire Punch)
96 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 166-196 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
96 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
96 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Metagross-Mega: 212-252 (70.4 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
96 Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 432-510 (153.7 - 181.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Not gonna be the #2 in usage it was while Genesect was here and Pheromosa was all the rage, but it's still a mon that should be acknowledged if not extremely heavily prepared for when building a team with a mon like Magearna.
That was not my implication- I already knew that even though one of the main reasons for using Alolawak is gone, the Pokemon itself hasn't been changed. And Alolawak to me is blatantly overrated- it has three immunities with Lightning Rod, sure, but it doesn't actually have good resistances- Bug types were just going to U-turn out, and while it's a great Pheromosa wall (pretty sure Pheromosa can't carry anything outside of Hidden Power to hit it super effectively), again it was probably just going to U-turn out first. It's literally transform for bait for Greninja, Tapu Lele can't be switched into safely (The rare ones with Shadow Ball are kind of murder), and although Megagross can't OHKO most variants with Earthquake, it can certainly do so with Stealth Rock up, and Alolawak does happen to be weak to them. So, you're right- using Magearna should still have you on the lookout for Alolawak, but it's rather easily dealt with.
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room
I think that this spread makes more sense both towards Stall and HO teams.
In the first case you reach 177 Spe, tying with 164 Spe EVs Azumarill and 76 Spe Tyranitar, but you gain the possibility to hurt Mantine, Metagross, Politoed, Skarmory (base 70 Spe pokemon with a neutral nature) even without relying on TR. Base 65 is slow, but not so slow and you can still make a good use of it.
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 194-230 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 288-340 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
In these cases, you can stop a weakened Skarmory before it lays down Spikes/SR.
Towards HO teams, you have TR and 212 HP EVs, which makes Magearna bulky in order to stomach one more attack and makes useless the opposite Spe investment in the matchs needed.
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room
I think that this spread makes more sense both towards Stall and HO teams.
In the first case you reach 177 Spe, tying with 164 Spe EVs Azumarill and 76 Spe Tyranitar, but you gain the possibility to hurt Mantine, Metagross, Politoed, Skarmory (base 70 Spe pokemon with a neutral nature) even without relying on TR. Base 65 is slow, but not so slow and you can still make a good use of it.
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 194-230 (58 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Magearna Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 288-340 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
In these cases, you can stop a weakened Skarmory before it lays down Spikes/SR.
Towards HO teams, you have TR and 212 HP EVs, which makes Magearna bulky in order to stomach one more attack and makes useless the opposite Spe investment in the matchs needed.
Magearna is an incredible addition for Trick Room teams. With New additions such as A-Maro and other slow but powerful mons of this Gen to abuse the fuck out of it, I can definitely see TR having a breath of fresh air in viability in this Meta.
With the combinations of the power, bulk, ability,, and versitality, Magearna is a potent threat in the metagame. It can run sets like Shift Gear, Assault Vest, Offensive Trick Room, and Choice Specs.
Shift Gear Magearna is really good because of its ability to clean through teams with Soul Heart + a Z move. It can run many sets on Shift Gear. The Z moves it can viably run are fighitnium z, steelium z, fairum z, ghostium z and electrium z. It has coverage in Fleur Cannon, Thunderbolt, flash cannon, aura sphere, Focus Blast, shadow ball, ice beam. It also does not have a hard time setting up because of its brilliant natural bulk. WIth a timid nature, it can outspeed scarfers like Garchomp. With a shuca berry + ice beam, magearna can lure in zygarde, Landorus-T, and Garchomp.
Assault Vest Magearna is a wonderful pivot with a great special defense stat. It is a tank. The point of this is to deliver slow volt switches and check pokemon like Protean Greninja, Latios, Weavile. It can also check Tapu Koko and keldeo to an extent and can deliver massive damage. It also gains momentm against stall, unless the stall player brings in dugtrio on a volt switch. It is a really nice check to non fightinium z bulu variants.
Offensive Trick Room Magearna is extremely similar to trick room, except that it is outsped by slow mons, has limited turns to abuse, and can afford to run max hp. It can help teammates like Alolan Marowak.
Shift Gear Magearna is really good because of its ability to clean through teams with Soul Heart + a Z move. It can run many sets on Shift Gear. The Z moves it can viably run are fighitnium z, steelium z, fairum z, ghostium z and electrium z. It has coverage in Fleur Cannon, Thunderbolt, flash cannon, aura sphere, Focus Blast, shadow ball, ice beam. It also does not have a hard time setting up because of its brilliant natural bulk. WIth a timid nature, it can outspeed scarfers like Garchomp. With a shuca berry + ice beam, magearna can lure in zygarde, Landorus-T, and Garchomp.
Assault Vest Magearna is a wonderful pivot with a great special defense stat. It is a tank. The point of this is to deliver slow volt switches and check pokemon like Protean Greninja, Latios, Weavile. It can also check Tapu Koko and keldeo to an extent and can deliver massive damage. It also gains momentm against stall, unless the stall player brings in dugtrio on a volt switch. It is a really nice check to non fightinium z bulu variants.
Offensive Trick Room Magearna is extremely similar to trick room, except that it is outsped by slow mons, has limited turns to abuse, and can afford to run max hp. It can help teammates like Alolan Marowak.
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