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Magic Bounce
- Thread starter Slipperjeans
- Start date
also, if an ally used moves like swagger on Espeon in Double or Triple Battle, will the user be swaggered instead? I'm sure some physical attackers would like it if they dont have access to Sword Dance.
I intend to experiment with Zoroark and Espeon. Send Zoroark as the lead with Espeon in second, then blow something out of the water which either attacks you with a dark or ghost attack (ideally, hopefully not bug lol), or switches out, and Zoroark blows it out of the water... in theory... ideally.
Why do you need a normal type, Espeon can OHKO most ghosts with shadow ball easily.
I've always found the move Magic Coat to be underrated. I used it at some point of DPPt metagame on a Porygon-2 lead, and it worked wonders for me. Magic Mirror is an incredible ability IMO (even if the the rumor about it bouncing entry hazards is false). Infinite Magic Coat is great to abuse; being able to be immune to statuses/Phazing moves(better setup/pass, but there's the new Dragon Tail and that other move that forces a switch)/Taunt/Leech Seed is nothing to laugh at.
Shadow Sneak. 65 HP and 60Def isn't great. Depends what you're expecting to face I guess (which we don't know 100% for Gen V yet anyway).
True, but Espeon was never going to be OHKOing most of the things that get shadow sneak anyway (dusknoir mainly)
If the Pokemon who get this ability aren't the best offensively or defensively, why not use the Pokemon who get Magic Coat since it's basically the same thing. So you could have a Porygon2 that has the very useful Trace with Magic Coat + 3 coverage moves. He's bulkier and has a pretty ace ability himself.
So something like:
Porygon2 @Leftovers
Trace
Bold (+DEF, -ATK)
HP 252 / DEF 180 / SPATK 76
-Magic Coat
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
Same idea, better Pokemon.
So something like:
Porygon2 @Leftovers
Trace
Bold (+DEF, -ATK)
HP 252 / DEF 180 / SPATK 76
-Magic Coat
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
Same idea, better Pokemon.
Espeon will simply be the end of alot of suicide leads. They couldn't risk setting up or be beaten. In fact, if you are planning to switch her in right at the beginning you can even use a focus sash so she survives a strong hit.
Edit: Also King of Harts the reason that isn't as awesome is because you have to use a move slot just for a chance to do it wrong and get hit in the face. Espy can just come in and pbounce back hits. Porygon 2 can't.
Edit: Also King of Harts the reason that isn't as awesome is because you have to use a move slot just for a chance to do it wrong and get hit in the face. Espy can just come in and pbounce back hits. Porygon 2 can't.
You would use this ability over mirror coat for the ability to switch it into status as the last second, such as reflecting toxic back at the blissey using it. In addition, once you're in, it doesn't require any prediction, thereby making it more effective.
Santa just put into better words what I said xD
But I though we were talking about using Espeon as an anti-lead, not a switch-in? Even as a switch in, though, Espeon is shaky because then he's a one trick pony and pursuit bait. So, okay, you switched into Blissey and reflected Toxic...now what? Blissey switches out (healing itself with Natural Cure) and here comes Ttar, Scizor, Weavile, or the new Kaminagator. You're officially screwed now.
The beautiful thing about Magic Mirror is that with it Espeon doesn't even have to lead to anti-lead.
It shuts down SR leads completely, making your opponent Taunt/SR itself. Imagine running a slower lead like Swampert or Metagross. Your opponent's first instinct is to Taunt or SR them. Espeon switches in, and they are screwed. Sleep leads get the same treatment. It has the Sp.Attack and Speed of Latios (without the great offensive Dragon-typing) and access to Psycho Shock and Quick Attack. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a better anti-lead out there than Espeon.
I wonder if Magic Mirror reflects Gastro Acid and Worry Seed.
It shuts down SR leads completely, making your opponent Taunt/SR itself. Imagine running a slower lead like Swampert or Metagross. Your opponent's first instinct is to Taunt or SR them. Espeon switches in, and they are screwed. Sleep leads get the same treatment. It has the Sp.Attack and Speed of Latios (without the great offensive Dragon-typing) and access to Psycho Shock and Quick Attack. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is a better anti-lead out there than Espeon.
I wonder if Magic Mirror reflects Gastro Acid and Worry Seed.
Not with Baton Pass, you're not. BP to Scizor, and TTar flees. BP to Heatran, Scizor and Weavile flee. Colbur berry or some physical bulk solves the Weavile speed problem.
That has been comfirmed. Espy could also see use as a stall breaker and a check (not a counter though) to sub leech seed strategies.
And So what if TTar comes in, we've established 2 things, one, Espeon beats TTar if the player predicts the switch with signal beam, 2 espeon (and everything else) can beat the crap out of scizor with HP fire, so only a moron would pursuit it. So you can just go to Magnezone, who imo is underated, and even if you do get pursuited, now you get to set up for free, and basically get 2 free KOs. SubCharge with pseudo boltbeam ftw.
Your calculation is a bit off. BTW I used Libelldra calculator to calculate. If you use Smogon - damage on it goes off really often, so watch out . And this is what I have:
Max SpA Timid Life Orb Signal Beam Espeon vs 4 HP Tyranitar (counting Sandstorm boost)
35.15% --> 41.58%
No chance in hell for 2OHKO, maybe with SR + 3 set of spikes. And I don't think any good player will allow to put so many spikes. Against defensive Tyranitar it looks even more sad.
Max SpA Timid Life Orb HP Fighting Espeon vs 4 HP Tyranitar (with Sandstorm boost)
66.34% --> 78.22%%
Ok, this one is solid enough. Clear 2OHKO, even without entry hazards. However if Tyranitar switches on Psychic or it just uses Choice Scarf, you still loose. So really, I wouldn't recommend it. And if you don't use HP Fire - Scizor eats you for breakfast, it looks the same with Pursuit Metagross, so choice is hard here.
Well that sucks balls, but maybe if we're lucky Espeon will get a slightly expanded movepool this generation, Focus blast and we're all good people. (as if, damn trollfreak)
Also, can one of you calculate Grass knot vs TTar?
Frankly, this sucks. This can't reliably reflect Taunt or SR, and it can't hit as hard. And it gets it's head bashed in for mispredicting a status move. Espeon can use Protect and shut down everything an opposing lead could possibly do aside from stat boosting. And then it can Power Swap if they do (if it's still faster). No way is Porygon2 better.
It feels crazy to say this, but Espeon has a whole lot of options now. I can see it being OU.
I don't think it gets Focus Miss. At least Scizor will be afraid to Pursuit it.
Does it get the new improved Disable? if it does, Scarf-tar is screwed by Protect, Disable.
Darn those damage calculations put a damper on me, though not by much. If that's the case we might as well go modest (since most of the pokemon we are calling counters are slower.) Can some one do the same calculations but with modest instead?
But it still outspeeds and OHKOs us even if we stay in lol.
Crap. 110 sucks (though not really).
Couldn't Espeon just Substitute as Blissey switches out? BP out as T-Tar and friends Pursuit/Bullet Punch/Whatever. Great chance to get Lucario in and SD/NP.
Unfortunately we don't know if we can BP since its an egg move. Though I guess we could run while we are behind a sub
good theory though, be a pity if we can't, but even then, we can just switch out, so we loose 25%, so what, I get to set up my SD Speed boost blaziken