Pokémon Malamar

[Kriptini]

Can we pause for a moment to talk about Offical/VGC/Doubles?

Topsy Turvey is pretty much a Sword of Damascus for any stat based team; it's effect on the metagame will be stunning.

Yes, it'll be stunning because it's an awesome move that won't see any use because Malamar is just too slow and frail to take advantage of it. Many boosters increase their Speed either through a Speed Booster that Baton Passes or Dragon Dance, making it easy for them to outspeed Malamar (if they don't already). And due to Malamar's lack of bulk, he'll probably get stopped by the sweeper as well.

There are a few niche cases where he can use it, such as against Reuniclus or Clefable, but that's about it.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

Yes, it'll be stunning because it's an awesome move that won't see any use because Malamar is just too slow and frail to take advantage of it. Many boosters increase their Speed either through a Speed Booster that Baton Passes or Dragon Dance, making it easy for them to outspeed Malamar (if they don't already). And due to Malamar's lack of bulk, he'll probably get stopped by the sweeper as well.

There are a few niche cases where he can use it, such as against Reuniclus or Clefable, but that's about it.

I disagree, Topsy-Turvy is going to have some opportunity to work its magic against Doubles opponents that have been slowed by T-Wave or a team that's been boosted in Speed by Tailwind. Speed Boost, Baton Pass, and Dragon Dance are all practically unheard of in Doubles. Topsy-Turvy's niche will be building Draco Meteor spammers up to full power again quickly.

 

[Kriptini]

I disagree, Topsy-Turvy is going to have some opportunity to work its magic against Doubles opponents that have been slowed by T-Wave or a team that's been boosted in Speed by Tailwind. Speed Boost, Baton Pass, and Dragon Dance are all practically unheard of in Doubles. Topsy-Turvy's niche will be building Draco Meteor spammers up to full power again quickly.

It doesn't reverse Tailwind or Thunder Wave, it ONLY works on pure stat boosts/drops. So I guess you could use it on a Draco Meteor spammer.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

It doesn't reverse Tailwind or Thunder Wave, it ONLY works on pure stat boosts/drops. So I guess you could use it on a Draco Meteor spammer.

I am aware Contrary wouldn't reverse those since they aren't direct stat changes. Pokemon that have questionably low bulk like Hitmontop are VGC/Doubles staples because they have a niche, and Malamar is going to be another one of these.

I don't know about staple, but it has a niche.

 

[Kriptini]

I am aware Contrary wouldn't reverse those since they aren't direct stat changes. Pokemon that have questionably low bulk like Hitmontop are VGC/Doubles staples because they have a niche, and Malamar is going to be another one of these.

I don't know about staple, but it has a niche.

Farfetch'd has a niche too.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

Farfetch'd has a niche too.

We're getting a bit off topic.

Anyway, for Singles, Malamar is a bit underwhelming. I've tried fast sets and bulky sets alike, and they don't seem to work. I think it will really come into its own when we get tiers besides just OU, however.

 

[Kriptini]

We're getting a bit off topic.

That's not off-topic, that's my rebuttal to you saying that Malamar will be used to fill a specific niche. The full version of my statement was: "Farfetch'd has a niche too, but that still doesn't make him viable."

Anyway, for Singles, Malamar is a bit underwhelming. I've tried fast sets and bulky sets alike, and they don't seem to work. I think it will really come into its own when we get tiers besides just OU, however.

He'll probably do well in RU.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

That's not off-topic, that's my rebuttal to you saying that Malamar will be used to fill a specific niche. The full version of my statement was: "Farfetch'd has a niche too, but that still doesn't make him viable."

Except a niche implies there's something it can do better than all of its competitors.

 

[Kriptini]

Except a niche implies there's something it can do better than all of its competitors.

It can. It's the best choice for abusing crits to get rid of Stockpile Hippowdown that only has Earthquake. Still doesn't make it good.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

It can. It's the best choice for abusing crits to get rid of Stockpile Hippowdown that only has Earthquake. Still doesn't make it good.

That depends on the necessity of the niche. Abusing crits to get rid of Stockpile Hippowdon, which I'm willing to bet has never actually been used on any real Doubles team, is a pathetic niche. However, both Latios and Hydreigon are popular Draco Meteor spammers, and traditionally they got one shot and then switched since they were now fresh-out of Sp. ATK. Malamar turns that all around, and they can continue firing away, which is a much cooler gimmick.

 

[TheMantyke]

Pokemon that have questionably low bulk like Hitmontop are VGC/Doubles staples because they have a niche, and Malamar is going to be another one of these.

There are also a lot of Pokemon in VGC/Doubles that have low bulk and unique niches that hardly see any play because their uses are too forgettable / underwhelming.

Saying a Pokemon will see decent usage because they have bad bulk isn't true. Comparing Malamar to Hitmontop with this assumption is baseless. Hitmontop has amazing disruptive support with Fake Out, Wide Guard, Quick Guard, Feint etc. while having among the best abilities in the game with Intimidate. All the while, Hitmontop has a nice offensive presence through it's STAB Close Combat and decent defensive typing. It goes well with just about any Special Attacker. Malamar has awful defensive typing, mediocre offensive typing, and hardly anything to make up a support movepool. Contrary is neat being able to score boosts off of Intimidate and Icy Wind, but you're not doing too much with it when the only spread move you have to abuse it is Rock Slide and when most strong neutral hits will knock you out. From the perspective of double battles, he looks really underwhelming.

Also, can we please put the Topsy-Turvy + Draco Metoer / Overheat / Leaf Storm thing to rest? It's a pretty underwhelming combo that's ruined with Fake Out or just double targeting. I haven't seen anything that has the bulk, and good spread attacks needed to make the set up worth it.

 

[MudcrabDL]

For Doubles, Malamar can play some great mindgames with Protect, Superpower, Swagger and Topsy Turvy, particularly when paired with 'obvious' Draco Meteor spammers like AV Goodra. But sadly, in singles, Malamar is obliged to be a one trick pony. I love the concept so much, but she is just too frail and needs so much team support, in the form of Twave and sticky web and screens...that much work to make something viable is probably better spent using something with immediate stage presence. Suction cups would make a great Baton Pass recipient though. Consider a moveset of Hypnosis, rock slide, night slash and psycho cut after a couple of Hone Claws and some speed.

 

[Scootnalboond]

Malamar is unstoppable... He eliminates sticky web, can spam a fantastic move in super power, have good coverage, only 2 weaknesses, relatively good bulk, and can dominate teams with gooey Goodra on it. I have quickly fallen in love with this upside down masterpiece.

 

[gbaespada]

VERY true lord jesseus people dont know malamar yet i use her and this stuff happen alot

 

[pup42512n]

I've had some decent results with passing speed to it and having it hold an Assault Vest. still dies like a bitch to bug, and has no recovery, and doesn't hit quite hard enough. Poor guy is gonna be RU at best.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I dont know what you guys are all whining about on here. Its a pretty awesome mon. It isnt the slap on any team mon that many were hoping for, but on a hazards dependent team, it gives defog teams absolute nightmares. There are a lot of reasons it wont see significant usage in OU and most teams don't need it, but trust me when I say its worth a shot on teams that have trouble against certain play styles.

 

[pup42512n]

I dont know what you guys are all whining about on here. Its a pretty awesome mon. It isnt the slap on any team mon that many were hoping for, but on a hazards dependent team, it gives defog teams absolute nightmares. There are a lot of reasons it wont see significant usage in OU and most teams don't need it, but trust me when I say its worth a shot on teams that have trouble against certain play styles.

His low speed and lack of resistances really let him down. I swear by assault vest on him though, it works perfectly in conjunction with superpower.

He's also worth using to me solely to laugh at Smogonsword.

 

[Kriptini]

He's also worth using to me solely to laugh at Smogonsword.

Using Superpower on Aegislash's King's Shield doesn't trigger the Attack drop, right? You're using Night Slash I'm assuming?

 

[AOPSUser]

Using Superpower on Aegislash's King's Shield doesn't trigger the Attack drop, right? You're using Night Slash I'm assuming?

You are using Superpower on a Ghost-type why?

Also Malamar can't take Aegislash's attacks repeatedly. And any smart Aegislash player would just switch out when Malamar comes in.

 

[Kriptini]

You are using Superpower on a Ghost-type why?

I was just making sure that the simulator doesn't cause Normal/Fighting moves to trigger King's Shield, because that would be a bug. And there's actually a not-so-situational reason to use a Normal, Fighting, or Poison move against Aegislash. If you're not Malamar, and you know Aegislash is going to use King's Shield and you don't want to switch and don't have any non-physical contact moves, you can use a Normal, Fighting, or Poison move to waste the turn (since Aegislash has a 50% chance to fail using King's Shield twice in a row). I actually won a game because my foe and I were down to our last Mon's: my Arcanine and his Aegislash. He used King's Shield and I used Extremespeed to waste the turn, then I won it with Flare Blitz since he didn't King's Shield again.

But that's not relevant to Malamar.

 

[AOPSUser]

I was just making sure that the simulator doesn't cause Normal/Fighting moves to trigger King's Shield, because that would be a bug. And there's actually a not-so-situational reason to use a Normal, Fighting, or Poison move against Aegislash. If you're not Malamar, and you know Aegislash is going to use King's Shield and you don't want to switch and don't have any non-physical contact moves, you can use a Normal, Fighting, or Poison move to waste the turn (since Aegislash has a 50% chance to fail using King's Shield twice in a row). I actually won a game because my foe and I were down to our last Mon's: my Arcanine and his Aegislash. He used King's Shield and I used Extremespeed to waste the turn, then I won it with Flare Blitz since he didn't King's Shield again.

But that's not relevant to Malamar.

I've done that with Stone Edge and Crunch on Tyranitar too.

And nitpick, I'm pretty sure King's Shield has a 67% chance to fail when used twice in a row. Or a 100% chance to fail. Either way, no one uses it twice in a row anyways.

Also Bisharp can spam Night Slash or Knock Off on Aegislash's King's Shield too.

But anyways, Malamar. No good player will let you get boosts from their Aegislash. Yes you can Superpower but stuff like Skarmory and Hippowdon and Scizor and anything with a strong Bug-type attack will laugh at you. So don't use Malamar in OU.

And suddenly Aegislash is no longer relevant.

 

[pup42512n]

Kinda sucks malamar has no chance in OU. I'm hoping he'll be relevant in UU or RU, I think he has potential to be really scary there.

 

[Impy]

I'm really disappointed in Malamar. Once he DOES get going he rips his way through everything in the game, but it's just so hard to keep him alive long enough for him to do so. His weaknesses don't do him any favors either. He's a cool gimmick, but I think he's going to struggle to do well anywhere other than RU/low UU.

 

[Kriptini]

Kinda sucks malamar has no chance in OU. I'm hoping he'll be relevant in UU or RU, I think he has potential to be really scary there.

I doubt he'll be able to make it in RU because of all the Unaware Quagsires running around in there. Maybe UU as long as Unaware Clefable doesn't become popular.

 

[AOPSUser]

Why not just put the thing in trick room with an assault vest,boost up,and when TR is out you (hopefully)have +5 attack,+5 defense and the assault vest to cover up the squishy SpD.Makes it a monster TR sweeper.

If your opponent lets you get that many boosts they're dumb. Also Moonblast/Bug Buzz. And any strong special attack really, even with an AV it's Special Defense isn't that good.