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Pokémon Mandibuzz

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Plasma.EXE said:
I'm a little curious, how much does foul play do on sword dance Scizor, assuming you switch in on it when it reaches +2? With steel no longer resisting dark, this is a pretty good thing for Mandibuzz and using foul play in general (also has STAB).
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+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 151-178 (35.6 - 41.9%)

+2 0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 340-402 (98.8 - 116.8%)

Seems like a pretty great matchup, to say the least.
 
A good rule of thumb for folks who want to test different Mandy sets, from my experience:

For Foul Play, focus on physical defense, as you want to counter Pokemon with high attack.

For Knock Off, focus on special defense, as Mandibuzz is naturally bulkier physically and it allows you to take a greater variety of hits as you shuffle and disarm.

Obviously do your own thing, that's what testing is for, but I find this to be the most efficient method.
 
Strictly as an annoyer, don't think the appeal to the move is specifically the damage. Mandi just has great defenses and typing, Overcoat, and Knock Off, Whirlwind and Roost is not terribly common making her one of the best ways to strictly hazard phaze and remove items. After the work she's done, it's very easy for 2-3 heavy offense mon to pick off the shambles of the disheveled opposition. Foul Play is great on standard and stall teams. Focusing on Knock Off has proved genius for a team with a defensive support core that softens the enemy for your sweepers.
 
Taking out set-up users like Scizor/Dragonite/Excadrill/Aegislash (especially mixed version) with STAB Foul Play is really huge though, since they're all capable of sweeping teams. It's part of the reason I refuse to take Quagsire off of my team as it's helped me turn battles around and now I might have a reason to try out Mandibuzz over it for a team slot. Unfortunately it's a bit hard to do that if Stealth Rocks are in play and you have to defog them. Sableeye is another STAB foul play user, but it doesn't particularly enjoy switching in on either of those.

I'm sure Knock-off is probably better for more offensive oriented teams though and dealing with Stall teams that rely a lot on trying to wall you/deal damage with spikes/stealth rocks.
 
Mandibuzz is likely leaving its cruel place in NU this generation. I'm calling it the "Gen Of Mandibuzz". This thing wonderfully counters pretty much all the top OU Threats at the moment. Here are calculations to prove it:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 252-297 (69.8 - 82.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 255-301 (70.6 - 83.3%)
just for the record, it takes this for Aegislash to OHKO Mandibuzz:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aegislash-Blade Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 374-442 (103.6 - 122.4%)
It can't even get Ice Beam, so. Despite the odd Head Smash:
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 638-752 (176.7 - 208.3%)
which at that:
252+ Atk Choice Band Aegislash-Blade Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 418-492 (98.5 - 116%)
it might not even OHKO at Mandibuzz. Safe to assume that Mandibuzz is quite possibly the best counter to Aegislash out there! Here's calcs with Foul Play:
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Blade: 314-372 (96.9 - 114.8%)
0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 134-158 (41.3 - 48.7%)
Even then, you can just Taunt it to not allow it to become Shield forme! It even takes Special Hits like a boss:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 306-362 (72.1 - 85.3%)
Not even a OHKO. Then we have Hydro Pump:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mandibuzz: 187-222 (44.1 - 52.3%)
Next, let's look at Kangaskhan:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 285-337 (78.9 - 93.3%)
Please, how is this thing not one of the greatest walls in OU? Then, we have Scizor and Mega Scizor:
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 127-151 (35.1 - 41.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 255-301 (70.6 - 83.3%)
252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 150-177 (41.5 - 49%)
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 298-352 (82.5 - 97.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 172-204 (47.6 - 56.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 202-238 (55.9 - 65.9%)
252+ Atk Mega Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mandibuzz: 150-177 (41.5 - 49%)
meanwhile,
+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 283-334 (82.2 - 97%)
+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 340-402 (98.8 - 116.8%)
Next up, Rotom-W, dominating the usage charts!
252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 254-300 (70.3 - 83.1%)
252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 198-234 (54.8 - 64.8%)
252+ SpA Rotom-W Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 324-384 (89.7 - 106.3%)
Yeah, so Rotom-W can just barely hope to OHKO this thing. Finally, let's look at Gengar:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 125-147 (34.6 - 40.7%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 297-351 (82.2 - 97.2%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 376-444 (104.1 - 122.9%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mandibuzz: 250-295 (69.2 - 81.7%)
It takes Choice Specs, 252+, Gengar, with Thunderbolt to OHKO him. These are just the top 6 OU Threats on the Usage charts, but wow. Obviously, these are odd, but I was showing that even with Max Power vs. Minimum Power, Mandibuzz is still hard to take down. I honestly think it could break its way into OU this Generation!
 
FurryGah said:
Why does Mandibuzz have 0HP in your calcs? Shouldn't all Mandibuzz sets be maxing HP?
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Chesnaught said:
Obviously, these are odd, but I was showing that even with Max Power vs. Minimum Power, Mandibuzz is still hard to take down.
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If you're still confused, it was to show that at Minimum Investment with a - Nature, it is still very hard to take down. I know 252 HP is the norm, I was just trying to add emphasis on how bulky it truly was.
 
Chesnaught said:

If you're still confused, it was to show that at Minimum Investment with a - Nature, it is still very hard to take down. I know 252 HP is the norm, I was just trying to add emphasis on how bulky it truly was.
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Very impractical. Get some calcs in legitimate situations and then we can discuss how mandibuzz will do in ou.
 
Hidious said:
Very impractical. Get some calcs in legitimate situations and then we can discuss how mandibuzz will do in ou.
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Fine, shall I run the calculations with 252 HP EVs? Then, add 252 to Defense/Special Defense and add a + Nature? How would you prefer me to show how bulky this thing is?
 
Why are you showing calcs on situations that would never happen.....?

it literally serves no point.

Should be noted that even though Mandibuzz can take hits for days, you shouldn't send it out against every threat you see and just roost. You're just going to get worn down. I've seen many players lose games just because they rely solely on Mandibuzz to take hits and eventually get swept because of it. You have to let other pokemon take hits to preserve momentum.
 
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Chesnaught said:
Fine, shall I run the calculations with 252 HP EVs? Then, add 252 to Defense/Special Defense and add a + Nature? How would you prefer me to show how bulky this thing is?
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Go with max defense and hp, because the only way mandibuzz is going to be effective in ou is against physical attackers because its offense is horrendous without fowl (excuse my pun) play
 
Hidious said:
Go with max defense and hp, because the only way mandibuzz is going to be effective in ou is against physical attackers because its offense is horrendous without fowl (excuse my pun) play
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Specially Defensive + Knock Off is just as good... :P

Speaking of which, I'm trying to build a semi-stall team with her. Shuffling the opposing team around (forcing hazard damage), dismantling their items, and being a resilient wall all seem like great qualities to pair with 2 other pokemon that can set up hazards + remove them. Then have the offensive half of semi-stall do work!
 
I've been surprised by how useful this thing is. I've actually only played against it, but compared to how mandibuzz played against me last generation, it's much better than before. I'm not sure if it's OU, but knock off and defog certainly make it very annoying. I found myself constantly switching the same itemless pokemon back in to take hits from it.
 
Chesnaught said:
If you're still confused, it was to show that at Minimum Investment with a - Nature, it is still very hard to take down. I know 252 HP is the norm, I was just trying to add emphasis on how bulky it truly was.
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I'm probably one of the few people here who understood the purpose of your min investment in bulk calcs xD

Guys, he's simply trying to show how bulky Mandibuzz is from a glance. The fact that Mandibuzz doesn't get 1HKO'd in a variety of situations without even investment in bulk is again, emphasizing how much of a pain it is to take down. And yes, running proper calcs would be more practical, but it is still interesting to see this from another perspective, regardless.
 
Mocha said:
I'm probably one of the few people here who understood the purpose of your min investment in bulk calcs xD

Guys, he's simply trying to show how bulky Mandibuzz is from a glance. The fact that Mandibuzz doesn't get 1HKO'd in a variety of situations without even investment in bulk is again, emphasizing how much of a pain it is to take down. And yes, running proper calcs would be more practical, but it is still interesting to see this from another perspective, regardless.
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Yeah, I get that, and it's all cool and all, but it would be better for everyone to see how truly bulky it is. While we get that Mandibuzz is a crazy bulky bird, it's not helping anyone to start having to make assumptions in terms of calcs. If he gave true calcs, we would still say "omg, Mandibuzz is hella bulky" but this time, we would be looking at real calcs with the same emotion.

As for me and Mandibuzz, I have to say that so far I've been very satisfied by how he's been performing in my defensive team. I've been running Defog / Taunt / Foul Play / Roost, and the bird's been taking all the physical hits while preventing set-ups, healing off damage, and getting hazards. But probably what's really the biggest happiness for me in terms of Mandibuzz is the fact that it can actually hit back with Foul Play. There have been so many times where a Foul Play from Mandibuzz leaves people stunned as to how they're Excadrill or Talonflame died, and they call me a gimmick lover before rage quitting. Whether we like it or not, I believe that Mandibuzz is definitely going to make a name for himself in the 6th gen OU meta.

Also, what teammates are people using with this thing? I've been using Florges as my special defense wall in order to pair nicely with Mandibuzz as well as making a nice cleric. Just curious as to what other alternatives there might be.
 
Yeah, I finally got around to testing her on showdown instead of wall zygarde, and she's doing a great job. Her on knock off + Mega Manectric as a teammate is really funny.
 
252 hp/252 atk/4 speed
Impish Nature w/Overcoat Ability
-Foul Play (It's apparently available via breeding this gen now)
-Taunt
-Roost
-Defog/Brave Bird

It's such a solid defensive wall, and not many things can land a OHKO. I highly recommend trying this out. It puts a halt to all forms of Aegislash, Breloom's Spore, Venusaur's Sleep Powder, and with the new steel nerf, Scizor can't Swords Dance without being nailed by a foul play.
 
This is why you need foul play on Mandibuzz.

The opposing Kangaskhan used Power-Up Punch!
Mandibuzz lost 9.0% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan's Attack rose!
Mandibuzz lost 6.4% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan's Attack rose!
Hit 2 time(s)!

Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
The opposing Kangaskhan lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan fainted!
Mandibuzz restored HP using its Leftovers!
 
SansNickel said:
This is why you need foul play on Mandibuzz.

The opposing Kangaskhan used Power-Up Punch!
Mandibuzz lost 9.0% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan's Attack rose!
Mandibuzz lost 6.4% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan's Attack rose!
Hit 2 time(s)!

Mandibuzz used Foul Play!
The opposing Kangaskhan lost 100% of its health!
The opposing Kangaskhan fainted!
Mandibuzz restored HP using its Leftovers!
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This happens like ALL the time, you'd think people would learn...
 
MoosyDoosy said:
Yeah, I get that, and it's all cool and all, but it would be better for everyone to see how truly bulky it is. While we get that Mandibuzz is a crazy bulky bird, it's not helping anyone to start having to make assumptions in terms of calcs. If he gave true calcs, we would still say "omg, Mandibuzz is hella bulky" but this time, we would be looking at real calcs with the same emotion.

As for me and Mandibuzz, I have to say that so far I've been very satisfied by how he's been performing in my defensive team. I've been running Defog / Taunt / Foul Play / Roost, and the bird's been taking all the physical hits while preventing set-ups, healing off damage, and getting hazards. But probably what's really the biggest happiness for me in terms of Mandibuzz is the fact that it can actually hit back with Foul Play. There have been so many times where a Foul Play from Mandibuzz leaves people stunned as to how they're Excadrill or Talonflame died, and they call me a gimmick lover before rage quitting. Whether we like it or not, I believe that Mandibuzz is definitely going to make a name for himself in the 6th gen OU meta.

Also, what teammates are people using with this thing? I've been using Florges as my special defense wall in order to pair nicely with Mandibuzz as well as making a nice cleric. Just curious as to what other alternatives there might be.
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I've been thinking pivot aegislash. Aegislash takes ice, rock, fairy, and is neutral to electric. Mandibuzz takes the ground, dark, and ghost. Be careful of edgequake users such as landorus-t and excadrill though. Speaking of excadrill, it shares the similar defensive synergy, but with an immunity to electric and neutrality to ice. I was thinking of using bulky excadrill, as it can also spin and set up rocks (if needed). Assault vest wouldn't be bad if no rocks are needed.

Same with magnezone. It has decent defenses, and you could probably run volt switch / flash cannon / thunderbolt / hidden power ice/fire as a pivot. Magnezone resists all four of Mandibuzz's weaknesses. Assault vest also viable if you really wanted. Switch into magnezone, volt switch the counter and just go back into Mandibuzz.

Next on defensive synergy would probably be poison types. Mandibuzz is immune to both ground and psychic, whereas poison takes the fairy attacks. Woulda been cool with gengar-mega but that's banned now. Then again, there aren't too many other viable poison types (they'd be weak to boltbeam).

EDIT: I forgot specially defensive jirachi and bronzong. Pretty much the same synergy as aegislash.
 
Mandibuzz takes non stab rock moves pretty decently, it does very little to fairies like azumarill and togekiss though, both of which can threaten to 2hko with their respective fairy stabs (although gleam seems kinda rare on togekiss).

Outside of flinch hax excadrill can't rly kill mandibuzz, mamoswine does better with icicle crash.
 
Mitchhhhhh said:
Mandibuzz takes non stab rock moves pretty decently, it does very little to fairies like azumarill and togekiss though, both of which can threaten to 2hko with their respective fairy stabs (although gleam seems kinda rare on togekiss).

Outside of flinch hax excadrill can't rly kill mandibuzz, mamoswine does better with icicle crash.
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Not only can it take non-STAB Rock attacks, you can be cute and Roost stall out things like 0 Attack Tyranitar Stone Edge, which is great if you REALLY don't want rocks on the field.
 
I've been using this epic pokemon as a defogger but I have decided that's not quite the best role. Mandibuzz is usually too important to allow it to lose 25% and then take a hit just because i need to get the hazards off the field. It does find plenty of free switch in opportunities, but I'd rather be roosting or taunting instead of defogging. And I'd rather have the teammate clearing the field so I can happily switch in and take 48% x2 from MegaLucario's close combats. So, what is a spinner or defogger that pairs up well with this guy?

It resists ghost, grass, dark, psychic, and ground. It's weak to rock, ice, fairy, and electric. It does not resist bug, dragon, fighting, fire, flying, normal, poison, steel, or water. It hates greninja, rotom-w, goodra, mamoswine, togekiss, tyranitar, genesect, azumarril, and galvantula.

Excadrill, Forretress, Charizard-X, Scizor, Tentacruel, Empoleon, and Skarmory seem to be the best teammate options out of the 20 or so viable hazard removers, but each one is a "pick your poison" situation. There is literally not a single spinner/defogger that resists boltbeam and that really sucks. All of them are great pokemon regardless.
 
56k said:
It resists ghost, grass, dark, psychic, and ground. It's weak to rock, ice, fairy, and electric. It does not resist bug, dragon, fighting, fire, flying, normal, poison, steel, or water. It hates greninja, rotom-w, goodra, mamoswine, togekiss, tyranitar, genesect, azumarril, and galvantula.
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Specially Defensive Mandy doesn't care about any of the bolded mons, even when they use super-effective attacks. If you're talking Foul Play/Physical Defensive then I gotcha, but if you're theorymonning Specially Defensive then there's some good news for you!

Excadrill, Forretress, Charizard-X, Scizor, Tentacruel, Empoleon, and Skarmory seem to be the best teammate options out of the 20 or so viable hazard removers, but each one is a "pick your poison" situation. There is literally not a single spinner/defogger that resists boltbeam and that really sucks. All of them are great pokemon regardless.
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Forretress is great for not sharing any weaknesses, resisting Fairy (for whatever that's worth), and filling both a spinning and a hazards-setting role to allow for a third mon to counter what those two don't and create a three-mon defensive core. Which is the best you can hope for if no hazard removers are perfect matches. Other folks on that list can do both, but Forretress is super bulky, and moreover has Volt Switch to act as a pivot.

To reiterate, I absolutely love pairing Mandibuzz with Rotom-H defensively, for the latter's resistance to Bolt Beam and ability to burn threats. This Rotom also stops Fire-types that Forretress hates. This still leaves you with a T-Tar weakness, but that guy's pretty easily countered by the likes of Gliscor or Garchomp or Excadrill or bulky fighting-types.

If Tar is your team's problem then of course a great spinner instead of Forry would be Excadrill, who as mentioned, just could not give less of a shit about the great green monster.
 
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