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Pokémon Mandibuzz

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The latest Mandibuzz I've been using is this:

Mandibuzz (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Taunt
- Roost

Taunt has been really useful so far, allowing Mandi to pretty much completely shut down slower things like Chansey so that she can easily beat them 1v1. It also lets her beat things like Skarmory, as it can simply Taunt it to prevent it from Roosting, forcing it to Brave Bird repeatedly, while Roosting off any damage herself and spamming Knock Off and/or Foul Play until the opponent faints (which can often also punish things switching in). Taunt has good utility in general as well, and comes in handy when facing random stuff, not to mention stopping things from setting up hazards.

As for the EV's, I generally prefer going with the straight physical wall spread. Speed could be handy, letting it taunt things like CroCune so it can't set-up, but things like that are generally rare in the meta (despite being surprisingly good), and losing a bit of physical bulk is a tad dubious imo especially when the thing you're facing could have speed-crept as well which essentially means the sacrifice was in vain (like vs Rotom-W).

Foul Play and Roost are both practically mandatory on Mandi in this gen, but the other 2 slots are definitely interchangeable. Defog, Whirlwind and Toxic are all good options, then there are more niche moves like Tailwind, U-turn and so on. I think those 2 moveslots are what we need to work out a better understanding of. I've been using Mandi for ages in OU now to a lot of success, but I admittedly haven't tinkered enough with her more niche moves in order to get a true feel of what her ideal set could be.
 
I've been running this set to some success but I'm thinking that it could be improved:
Mandibuzz (Mandibuzz) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

I'm thinking on replacing defog (I already have a spinner in my team), but I am not sure what would be a good option, I'm thinking either taunt to screw with set up sweepers and walls or U-turn to keep momentum; I am also worried about the EV spread, for some reason I think those 4 points in attack would serve better in another stat, but I am not sure which.
 
(Mandibuzz) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Roost

NO attack investment, no IV investment, put that shit to zero, mandibuzz should only attack with foul play. Leave knock off to the zillion other pokemon that can learn it.
 
Yeah, you shouldn't invest in Atk with Mandi because there's no real point, it's much better off in speed or SpD and the few points you invest will be negligible in terms of how much extra damage they give to your Knock Offs. Also, as has been said on previous pages, 248 HP is a good thing to do because when you have an odd amount of HP, you take less damage from SR, Burn, Poison, etc. For those last 8 or so EV's you'll have left over if you're using the straight physical wall spread, you should put them into speed because it lets you have the first move against things like Mega Venusaur, which can greatly help you against them.

As for whether or not Mandi should be using Knock Off (or any other attacking move other than Foul Play as VanGru is saying), I certainly would not dismiss the move at all, it has been really good for me and certainly serves a good purpose, especially if you have no other Knock Off users on your team. If you do, then another move would indeed generally be preferable. I often don't have another user of it on my team, hence why I use it on my current set. Some of the important uses of it have been getting rid of boosting items like Bands, Specs and Life Orbs, which have allowed my Mandi to much more effectively wall the threat in question, stall it out, and take it down. Removing any item is a big boon, and it makes switch-ins to Mandi much easier to deal with, like getting rid of Leftovers or a Chesto Berry on an incoming Rotom-W.
 
DuskSoul said:
I've been running this set to some success but I'm thinking that it could be improved:
Mandibuzz (Mandibuzz) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

I'm thinking on replacing defog (I already have a spinner in my team), but I am not sure what would be a good option, I'm thinking either taunt to screw with set up sweepers and walls or U-turn to keep momentum; I am also worried about the EV spread, for some reason I think those 4 points in attack would serve better in another stat, but I am not sure which.
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This is the set i have been using and i like it so far. I see a lot of people online use Rocky Helm instead of leftovers though. Has anyone tried rocky helm at all to good success? and if you switch item does its role switch as well or is it still support/phys tank?
 
Well I like Knock off a lot it has even snatched me a few kills and it has even scored me a win. Thanks for the EV suggestions, I didn't know odd HP numbers were better.

Mega-venasaur has given me some trouble in the past (enough that I'm thinking of running sludge wave on my Sheer Force Spec-LandI), but I don't see how outspeeding it with mandibuzz would help me since most MSaur I've encountered tend to be special attackers.

Edit: Helix: I don't know, Lefties have saved my Mandibuzz tons of times, leaving me with just enough health to survive and roost to live another day. I guess it could work, but I prefer the safety provided by the lefties.
 
Helix said:
This is the set i have been using and i like it so far. I see a lot of people online use Rocky Helm instead of leftovers though. Has anyone tried rocky helm at all to good success? and if you switch item does its role switch as well or is it still support/phys tank?
Click to expand...

Lefites>>>>>>rocky helm. I don't know why anyone would want to bother with Rocky Helm on a dedicated wall, especially one with STAB Foul Play. Leftovers recovery is good, not just for the passive healing but because it can turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs.
 
jbtc10 said:
Yeah, you shouldn't invest in Atk with Mandi because there's no real point, it's much better off in speed or SpD and the few points you invest will be negligible in terms of how much extra damage they give to your Knock Offs. Also, as has been said on previous pages, 248 HP is a good thing to do because when you have an odd amount of HP, you take less damage from SR, Burn, Poison, etc. For those last 8 or so EV's you'll have left over if you're using the straight physical wall spread, you should put them into speed because it lets you have the first move against things like Mega Venusaur, which can greatly help you against them.

As for whether or not Mandi should be using Knock Off (or any other attacking move other than Foul Play as VanGru is saying), I certainly would not dismiss the move at all, it has been really good for me and certainly serves a good purpose, especially if you have no other Knock Off users on your team. If you do, then another move would indeed generally be preferable. I often don't have another user of it on my team, hence why I use it on my current set. Some of the important uses of it have been getting rid of boosting items like Bands, Specs and Life Orbs, which have allowed my Mandi to much more effectively wall the threat in question, stall it out, and take it down. Removing any item is a big boon, and it makes switch-ins to Mandi much easier to deal with, like getting rid of Leftovers or a Chesto Berry on an incoming Rotom-W.
Click to expand...

Let's be honest, there are sooooo many pokemon who can learn the move and have really high attack, mandi needs all the slots she has.
 
I honestly like STAB Knock Off, even without attack investment, just having IV's it can put some pretty nice dents into things that aren't mega. Checks and counters plenty of reasonable threats depending on sets. Aegislash can be handled, only taking any damage off a Special Aegis's Flash Cannon, and almost nothing from resisted Shadow Ball which other than Tyranitar and blobs who are immune to it, is hard to come by, but those are of course scared by Sacred Sword.
 
DuskSoul said:
Mega-venasaur has given me some trouble in the past (enough that I'm thinking of running sludge wave on my Sheer Force Spec-LandI)
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I know this isn't the Landorus thread but sludge wave won't help you beat mega venusaur, earth power hits it harder (cause of stab) and psychic hits it much harder cause its actually super effective (poison hits venusaur for neutral damage), that aside Life Orb is generally a much better item for Landorus as the recoil is nullified by sheer force on any move but hidden power.
 
Mitchhhhhh said:
I know this isn't the Landorus thread but sludge wave won't help you beat mega venusaur, earth power hits it harder (cause of stab) and psychic hits it much harder cause its actually super effective (poison hits venusaur for neutral damage), that aside Life Orb is generally a much better item for Landorus as the recoil is nullified by sheer force on any move but hidden power.
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By specs I meant Special Landorus, I do run him with Life Orb, it just downed on me that it could be interpreted other way. Thanks for the advice though.
 
I run

Mandibuzz @ Rocky Helmet
Overcoat
Bold
248 HP/248 Def/12 Spe
0 Atk IVs
~Foul Play
~Taunt
~Defog
~Roost

The set is basically the standard but customized to always win in a mirror match. Some Mandi run 8 Spe and others 4 or 0, so I always outspeed, shut down with Taunt, and then kill them with Rocky Helmet or force them out to give me a free turn to Defog. Nature and IVs mean I take min damage from Foul Play.
 
Mitchhhhhh said:
Why? Knock Off is totally viable, even U-Turn is an option but generally not worth it.
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Why would you waste a moveslot for u-turn?
Secondly, taunt is a far superior option over knock off, you completely shutdown any defensive wall opposing you. Foul play eliminates those physical attackers and defog+roost are a given anyway.
 
Having both Knock Off and Foul Play makes you SUPER annoying, and in combination can let you take on certain threats 1v1 and win. The big question about Mandibuzz, I feel, is do you REALLY want to use a moveslot on defog? Mandi is a brilliant user of it, but SR turns a lot of it's 3hkos into 2hkos, and it prevents you running hazards of your own.

Also, this is a stretch but Bone Rush can really hurt Heatran, which is a common switchin. With 4 attack EVS, and some luck, it can score a 2hko, and if Heatran is already damaged a little it can get him down to very manageable health. (i'm mostly theorizing this for cartridge, on Showdown, Taunt has much more utility.)
 
Mandibuzz's job isn't to kill things, it's to cripple them. Knock Off should always be considered as removing choice items and leftovers helps both win the stall wars and if not then you have a better chance at revenging.

Personally I run Knock Off, Toxic, Roost, Whirlwind. A lot of pokemon think they can set up on you if you don't lead with taunt. So you can easily knock off their item and then whirlwind them away and nullify their boosts the next turn.
 
Rocky helmet is useful for situations where you need to damage a physical attacker but don't have a spare turn to toxic/foul play/whatever because it keeps taking away half your health.

With rocky helmet, you can sit there and spam roost while they slowly kill themselves. I've won a few matches this way
 
Plat said:
Mandibuzz's job isn't to kill things, it's to cripple them. Knock Off should always be considered as removing choice items and leftovers helps both win the stall wars and if not then you have a better chance at revenging.
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If you're using it as a physical wall then Foul Play is an absolute must.
 
I haven't had any problems with running both Foul Play and Knock Off, hell having both of them has won me games, nothing as hilarious as knocking off a DDragonite's lum berry, crippling it with a TWave (courtesy of my Rotom) and then killing it with Foul Play.
 
Not running Foul Play can easily land you in hot water if push comes to shove. Even though bluffing the move is easy, it's not a good idea. A lot of physical sweepers like Pinsir will just switch out to spare their own lives if Mandi comes in as they Swords Dance or w/e because they (rightfully) assume that every Mandibuzz will have Foul Play, but if they decide to sack themselves to get good damage on Mandi so something else can come in and force it out or revenge it, and you don't have Foul Play, then you could easily get swept. Foul Play and Roost are fundamental to what Mandi does, you really only have 2 moveslots to customize, and neither of those 2 should pretty much ever be cut for anything else (unless you're running a special wall set or something, but even then, Foul Play still allows you to be much more versatile and deal with Physical Attackers as well).
 
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