Marvel v Capcom 3 discussion

Sent isn't THAT awful. He still does a shitton of damage and eats bad players who don't block for free.

But I definitely felt that it was an overnerf. You could get in on most sentinels pre-nerf and stay on top of him, but now he's so paper. Plus, his most useful asset, calling drones, is likely going get sent killed a LOT more often with him losing a third of his health. In my honest opinion, they should have nerfed X-Factor or Phoenix before touching sent.
 
I think the complaints are silly. I mean, it feels like a knee-jerk sort of thing, sure. Doesn't seem terribly over the top as an actual balance decision, though.
 
I honestly find X-Factor and Phoenix still incredibly annoying. Honestly, X-Factor was one of the worst design decisions ever made in a game.
 
While I agree that they probably went a little overboard with the Sent nerf (not that I think it will change very much), I do not agree that they should have done anything to Phoenix, she sits on such a precarious ledge, while she is somewhat annoying now, to nerf her would pretty much make her close to unusable. She has nowhere near the most damage output (seriously, iirc even Dark Phoenix has nothing on Hulk or Sent), so if you were to drop it, there would be no point in really saving the 5 bars, which could go to a better use. Sure, Phoenix may be annoying, but she does not need to be nerfed, the community just needs to learn how to properly deal with her.

Which brings me back to Sent, they probably should not have nerfed Sent so early in the life of the game. Sure, he may have needed one at some point (not such a drastic one), but odds are that people would have found a decent way to cope, especially when trying to injure him.
 
people LOVE to bitch about phoenix being skank! agreeing with you though hobby, she's easy to counter.
 
Uuh, a level 3 X-factor Phoenix is NOT easy to deal with at all. Sure you can snap her in, but then what does she do? Jump away homing fireball all day and switch back out.
 
They should just nerf X-factor! Sentinel didn't need that great of an HP nerf, just an X-factor nerf imo. X-factor needs a serious change, otherwise characters like Phoenix will continue to dominate. Neptune is right, lvl 3 X factor Phoenix is really cheesy. (TK Overdrive medium is just hilarious)

No need to nerf my precious Phoenix ;_;.
 
Neptune said:
Uuh, a level 3 X-factor Phoenix is NOT easy to deal with at all. Sure you can snap her in, but then what does she do? Jump away homing fireball all day and switch back out.
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firstly, don't let her get to level three, and kill her.

secondly, avoid the fireballs, super through the fireballs, jump around the fireballs and kill her.

if all else fails, time her out :)

also, kill her. she goes down easily
 
First off I like to say that the Sent Nerf seem a little too much at this point of time. Based on videos I want, Sentinel didn't seem that overly broken to me ignoring the uses of X-Factor. Haven't seen any footage of competitive Phoenix so I don't know if she was broken or not.

BTW, did your assist take damage from stray hits in MvC2?
 
PK Gaming said:
They should just nerf X-factor! Sentinel didn't need that great of an HP nerf, just an X-factor nerf imo. X-factor needs a serious change, otherwise characters like Phoenix will continue to dominate. Neptune is right, lvl 3 X factor Phoenix is really cheesy. (TK Overdrive medium is just hilarious)

No need to nerf my precious Phoenix ;_;.
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Screw nerfing X-Factor, they need to just take it out of the game. MvC2 didn't need X-Factor to be a good game.
 
natalie said:
firstly, don't let her get to level three, and kill her.

secondly, avoid the fireballs, super through the fireballs, jump around the fireballs and kill her.

if all else fails, time her out :)

also, kill her. she goes down easily
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A lot easier said than done. She has really insane mixups, can rush down or runaway, and has absolutely insane chip as Dark Phoenix. And remember, she really only needs roughly four and a half bars; the combo will usually give her the needed 5 meters. Timing her out works against lower skilled players, but remember that she's not unplayable as regular phoenix. She can get in and do some massive damage.

But if you think about it, it really hurts the "standard" phoenix team, if you will. The Sentinel/x/Phoenix team built a ton of meter from getting Sent killed. The giant robot had so much health that you could probably build off 2 bars just from being hit. If you count the bar phoenix builds from getting wacked plus the one bar you start with, they only would have to build 1.5 more bars of meter.

Let me clarify my statement. I don't agree with any patching this early, but I do think that Dark Phoenix in X-Factor and X-Factor in general for that matter are both much more problematic than Sentinel is.
 
I feel like the things X-factor adds in terms of no chip damage, healing red health, cancelling hypers, are good concepts. Maybe if the damage was always XF1 damage boost, sorta like what SDS was saying.

Oh yeah the loops are lame, maybe speed should be gone too.
 
I agree with SDS to be completely honest, especially in the case of Phoenix, without level 3 X-factor she is a completely different beast.

Now on to this:
Uuh, a level 3 X-factor Phoenix is NOT easy to deal with at all. Sure you can snap her in, but then what does she do? Jump away homing fireball all day and switch back out.
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Learn to snap in in the right situations, where she can't run away, or just counter her fireballs, sure the Heavy Fireball can track, but it actually has a relatively slow startup that can be countered by a lot of characters, especially if they have a fast beam or beam super (think Magneto and Akuma). Phoenix has alright keep away, but until she is Dark Phoenix (where her fireballs are faster), it is not all that great, so any dedicated keep away character will easily win out there.

The final piece of evidence that Phoenix alone is not that great has to be the grand final of Wednesday Night Fights last week, where Justin Wong and Floe made fools of themselves trying to use Phoenix on a whim. Anyone can pick up Sentinel and learn his fairly simple combos and abuse his armoured moves to gain a pretty good effect, but Phoenix is actually a lot harder to use. Sure if you put in the time and actually learn to use her and dedicate a team to that, she will seem a little broken (especially with level 3 x-factor, which is whole other thing), but she is nowhere near a level which would require a nerf, which is not to say that Sentinel was either, though everything I have seen has shown that Sent has not really changed that much, you just have to be a little more careful.

Also a random little nitpick, unless forced to, or in a situation where it is unbelievably beneficial, no Phoenix player will activate x-factor until after the transformation, because Dark Phoenix needs it to recover the red life she inflicts on herself.
 
hobby said:
The final piece of evidence that Phoenix alone is not that great has to be the grand final of Wednesday Night Fights last week, where Justin Wong and Floe made fools of themselves trying to use Phoenix on a whim. Anyone can pick up Sentinel and learn his fairly simple combos and abuse his armoured moves to gain a pretty good effect, but Phoenix is actually a lot harder to use.
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Justin and Floe messing with Phoenix has nothing to do with how good a character is. Yes, she is arguably harder to use, but so was Eddie in comparison to Sol, Ky, or Slayer for new players at Guilty Gear. And Eddie is undisputed top. She is still an amazing anchor at this point in the game.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Most people's complaints (Either sentinel or Phoenix) stems from their level 3 X-Factor incarnations. I mean seriously, they both kill you in 3 hits and with super armor or mad crazy mixups, its not that hard. And oh the chip.

And on a sidenote: Sentinel still does well on point and wreck scrubs online. You just can't be as stupid. His biggest asset: his assist, is severely gimped though. I'm finding it a somewhat harder to play my Wolverine team (and really, most of my offensive ones) solely because I willy nilly call drones and mix them up with berserker slash
 
Justin and Floe messing with Phoenix has nothing to do with how good a character is. Yes, she is arguably harder to use
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But you see, that is my exact point, while Sent and Phoenix seem to be considered equally broken, anyone and his dog can pick up Sent and kill people, while Phoenix actually requires some skill. I was never trying to say she wasn't a good character, she definitely is, I just don't really think she is as broken as everyone seems to think.
 
I really don't think the problem is Phoenix, or Sentinel, or whatever. The problem is the game. Nearly every character in the game besides maybe Hulk or Tron can be killed in one combo. That's absurd. With X-Factor, Ultras, and abusing damage scaling, a good player can take out any one character with a single combo. Also, asshole assists like Tron, and things like Spencer's Bionic Arm are infinitely spammable and can allow a lesser player to defeat a far more skilled one that does not wish to spam. Assists are such a huge part of the game, and are usually just spammed and used to get free meter for Character-killing combos or to stop a better player dead in their tracks when they try to do anything. This game is seriously more frustrating than Pokemon sometimes.
 
Even Tron and Hulk can be killed in one combo, but that fact (and the assist dependence that you mentioned) are just a part of the whole Marvel style mostly, changing that would make it a completely different game.
 
I'm just arguing ease of use != how broken a character is.

Masterful: It's marvel and its been insane like that through the whole series. But the thing is, skilled play won't let that happen to you.
 
Sir_Lu said:
I'm just arguing ease of use != how broken a character is.

Masterful: It's marvel and its been insane like that through the whole series. But the thing is, skilled play won't let that happen to you.
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The problem is, that's just not true. You can be doing just fine, and suddenly Tron comes in and your character dies from a combo. That's hwat makes a lot of characters absurdly good.
 
Tron is only top tier because of that crazy assist, when you see Wong's anchor Tron in action, it almost never gets anywhere. Tron is stupidly easy to zone out, and has no way at all to hit something like a Wesker spamming the pistol.
 
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