NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

[Hawkie]

yeti is town. Hitmonleet was planning on pushing her with Josh to save himself and only started his lacklustre push on Texas the day he got lynched.

 

[Panic Station]

appealing to emotion does not work on me because i have none

Is this statement serious or joking?

 

[FortColors]

context, critical thinking, and motivations are what catch the scum, not content

sounds like what rssp1 had been going on about before

------------------------

So we're at this weir stage in the game where there's only one scum left and ~most people agree with the PoE pool

Basically comes down to how comfortable you are with your own reads and whether you think it's okay for xyz to win if you're wrong

This is my last game for a while so we Gucci I can leave on a yeti loss now that she's critically thinking and the flame is gone.

if hawkie is scum then I will happily lose to him
same for yeti except her instead

if empoof is scum I will be absolutely pissed if we lose to him. and not even necessarily at him

if I'm scum I'd be very happy to have town lose to me :^)

if knights is scum and we lose to him I will not be ok with that
if lightwolf is scum and we lose to them idk they've basically been "w.e"ing
if texas is scum and we dont lynch him today and he wins then I will laugh.


sums up my game

 

[Panic Station]

The only way we lose to Empoof is if Twin gave the BPV a role that didn't actually say he/she is the BPV.
The only way we lose due to me is if I get shoved into the decider slot during LyLo.

 

[Hawkie]

the only way i'd entertain a lynch other than texas was if town as a whole agreed to lynch him the next day and stuck to it.

still want him hanged

 

[Hawkie]

mafia chat d2:

texas: ok leet you're basically fucked id i want him as ur biggest sr i'll do the same and i'll try to keep him from getting lynched as long as possible
id: ok
hitmonleet: ARGHHHHH THEY'RE ALL TAGGING ME

mafia chat d3:

texas: ok leet when a wagon starts on you i'm going to follow it, it'd give us nice interactions if you started to scumread me id u continue pushing for his lynch it might clear you so we can take out the bpv
leet: ARGGHHHHHH OKAY
id: ok

 

[Hawkie]

can u all plz read D1-EOD3

 

[Panic Station]

I'll see if I have time after Wall Part 2 goes up.

 

[Panic Station]

Actually, just hit D4 deadline, so

Wall Part 2

Picking up from where we left off on page 100

for scum id probably say moody + colorstone or whatever
for town id say hawkie texas asek josh

I suddenly really don't think ID is scum, i alluded to this in my last post and I also don't think Knights is scum either D: i guess knights is a fine lynch. is there any other alternative?

but i really, really don't think ID would just give up RIGHT AFTER hitmonleet did the exact. same. thing. and got lynched anyway, as scum. it just makes no sense. ideally texas would my lynch today, he's a great flip info-wise too, but I guess I can settle for knights, I really do think he's town though, just I'm suddenly p sure that ID is just a mislynch, I know I've scumread them this entire time too lmao and this is entirely based off of them giving up but i really think that he's town rn.

pancake Feeling that you might've been deflecting suspicion to Blazade/Ironicdouble on d2/d3 and you having done the thing I was looking for when I was looking up vote history since I thought I'd make the most sense for scum to do aka ignoring the Hitmonleet wagon d2 and jumping on it d3.

Overall through poe I believe one of you/Knights/ID/Fort is scum and Fort's tone has felt towny to me, ID would've been hardcore bussing Hitmonleet since early d2 to now just give up (which mind you is possible if he's scum thinking it's lost but the tunnel still seem overkill).

ID no one had played with me before in paranoia and i litetally experienced none of these problems ur just lazy and not used to forum

I feel pancake is trying for towncred now by correctly predicting 2 town flips aka ID and Knights after Moody started to read them as scum. He gave no real reason for his change of heart

I believe in the narrative of Pancake pushing onto ID d2 instead of getting involved with KingvLeet hoping to dismiss it as TvT, then pushes him while keeping the ID option open and being stuck with it as an announced scumread.

Uhhh your hidden.urself buster

pretty much

I want to see a post thst contains your read of all 11 slots and reasoning. that is hard for newer players to do as scum convincingly. with someone like yeti or ligjtwolf it would be an exercise in futility but with less experience most people don't know how to fake a large amount of reads convincingly. it's your opinion, it can go against the grain, just say what made YOU feel that way

ID go to the search bar type pancake into posts by member and then hit search this thread only skim them and tell me how u feel about him. Reminds me of his scumgame of excuses and bad pushes

how am I trying to go for towncred? i guess that's not a totally ridiculous thought but have you considered that I'm trying to prevent a mislynch that I have had a change of heart over due to new evidence? I understand that this sudden flip and my "I'll lynch someone other than ID" attitude is extremely, extremely scummy, but if you think about it that way if I was scum why the fuck would I do that, and isn't this attitude justified in the face of new evidence (ID virtually resigning?)

I cant really see id resigning as a scum but i dont want to believe a town does it.

Lets call that little incident nai

i could do knights or id. im not willing to lock id today if i dont lynch him so thats gonna be problematic later. i do want to give him a chance and see what he can produce. maybe he just isnt a fan of the circus meta. /shrug

i don't think we should. as I've said before resigning is not alignment indicative for ironic because he does it when he gets salty/feels bad about his game and so "not believing" that he would resign is not valid for him, meta-wise.;

if you think its scummy i shifted off id to knights to form a counterwagon after i said the exact same thing about leet not having a counterwagon yesterday then thats just your own problem lol

this is so fucking weak mentions absolutely nothing about pancakes frequent excuses filler and reads with little base literally bandwagons the reason I SR pancake ur literally making it so hard for me not to switch back to you

perhaps other people had these reads. I think I remember most of you having somewhat similar. why do these wagons only suddenly happen when I suggest them though? before I said anything everyone looked pretty damn content to lynch id and suddenly our lynchpool has 3 people instead of 1.

ok first of all agree with hawkie that reasoning is SHIT but i'm not sure if it makes up for the fact that there's no way that id gave up as scum

and cake is doing something I used to do as a newer player scum which is show too much premeditated knowledge ie the id read flip

and i think we seriously need to start deciding between yeti/pancake/id right now because at the moment i want to turbo all fucking 3 of them

ID still not lynching just screams to me that he's trying to ride defeated townie as scum and is too scared to lynch in case it takes him back to L-2

Yeti ID unlikely

Pancake ID don't think you bring a friend in just to bus them

don't lynch this guy

i have the cutest voice in my head when i read "good ol rvs"

dont let him fool you. I assure u and everyone in this game he's much more competent than he makes out

so do you think he's scummier than yeti? dunno why you're shading him as you vote yeti o o

pancake imo tell me why you suddenly tred me thats not a very pancake-isque thing to do

i literally cant decide between them except my reasoning for wanting to lynch ID is more of being apprehensive of him pulling a fast one on us by acting like a defeated townie to get unlynched while i haven't liked yeti pretty much ever.

I am pretty much deciding out of the 3 prospect wagons too

(cake yeti id)

literally shut up i know im shit enough to be wrong about at least one of them

the same is true for id who hard sred and sat on leet d2 and d3

I've literally repeated it multiple times in this thread, but I guess I'll do it again just for you:
yesterday Hitmonleet decided to basically resign, he was scum and his resignation "plea" failed. you saw this, thus why would you ever try it today??? that would be extremely idiotic as scum and this is supported by the fact that resigning isn't alignment-indicative for you


because texas and ID were more scummy to me. it's literally that simple.

ok apparently me resigning has forced you to tr me yay lol

Id looks not shitty but i may be pocketed by this slot

i just.. the former hope ignoring of leet then id hard tunneling him (and i am willing to make the statement that if all of hawkie/blazade/texas are town there was a HUGE town-led wagon onto leet forming d1 so yes, his teammate even one subbing in is going to start hard bussing him to fit in on d2) strikes me as a more suspicious pattern.

id is trying more (Yay good keep it up)

ngl I kinda wanna lynch id again but potato orangatto

my scumpool is pancake/asek/id/fort rn im starting to feel better about yeti

wnama lynch id and give yetis nd pancake more time to be town

town but starting to be less confident about: asek knightsofcydonia ironicdouble moodycloud, especially asek and knights

I wanna say dont lymch id but im probably pocketed bt that slot

i agree with the above garbled asek post

town but starting to be less confident about: asek knightsofcydonia ironicdouble moodycloud, especially asek and knights - I don't think asek v. knights is tvt or svs, and knights honestly is being super hypocritical right now and his recent reads manage to both not make sense while also being barren in terms of content, IronicDouble I've explained many times but there's like no way he's scum after that virtual resignation earlier even if his reads have shitty reasoning, and moodycloud I'm pretty sure is misguided town but he asks a lot of questions while not answering the same ones himself and his playing really weird-meta wise.

if pancake manages to flip town and something happens to me my solve is asek/texas + id/fort/yeti

No ID kthx

IronicDouble (‽) you planning on getting reinvested tomorrow?

appologizes but i see pancake is being lynched currently so ill just say my view on him: interesting how he sred me heavily, then tred me, and apparently has came back on me ? i didnt really see what post he voted me so i'm not sure but honestly i have to say that this sudden read shift under pressure seems sorta weird

If pancake is town turbo id tomorrow

thought exercise:

if all of knights/pancake/id/lightwolf are town

who are the scumteam

ive got this uneasy feeling that all of these could be red herrings. i think im coming around on knights some more being scum? ik im voting him rn but that was really just to see what owuld happen in the wagons.

(haters will say im scum and know all 4 are town zz)

Asek / Lightwolf + Fort/ID/Yeti if pancake is town

 

[Hawkie]

knights were u actually reading or just quoting alive players' posts

 

[Panic Station]

I had to read it to know which ones were about ID. And if you read it yourself you'll see it's living and dead players's statements.

 

[Hawkie]

but like are you going to say anything about it

 

[Panic Station]

Firstly,l I recommend, players read 4561 and Matrix 12 NOC Day 7 side by side to get the full effect (and be sure to expand the last quote block in 4561 becuase formatting fucked up at the end and a bunch of quotes got stuck in a quote pyramid).

I can see Josh was an early factor in the shift off of ID. Pancake's defense of ID was also a factor. ID sat back and let Pancake get lynched, using Pancake's shift in read against him without voting.

The living players who stand out are Yeti and Texas.

Yeti starts out by defending her choice of ID as counterwagon, then jumps onto the ID wagon on grounds of inactivity/uselessness (which can come from both Town or scum perspectives), jumps off just as quickly once Josh brings up the lack of counterwagons, then keeps him in her lynch pool but cites logic concerning the Pancake wagon as being equivalent for ID (the two players flipping opposite debunks this fallacy), then congratulates him for an uptick in effort. I need to look over the D3 counterwagon for dissonance.

Texas has some posts that look like buddying in hindsight, but some of them tie into the idea that Texas signaled a fake PR read. Not sure how much weight that tinfoil holds.

 

[Panic Station]

in short, texas moves things away from id pretty quickly and then when too few people are willing to vote blazade bc he is afk speedrunnin, texas (having not really explored or push anyone beyond these 3) goes back to confscum leet.

it bothers me that no other wagon can gain a ton of traction on d3. which could be bc leet is The Bus or bc he's a mislynch and the mafia have no reason to let another wagon form. we obv wont know until he flips.

 

[Panic Station]

unvote

 

[Yeti]

I just straight didn't play a good game not pushing harder onto id d4

I let the people who thought he looked super town somehow off those posts sway me way too hard

Fatality

 

[Panic Station]

Mind telling me why you started a counterwagon in the middle of building a case on another player?

 

[Yeti]

If we lose its not gonna be to scum!me lol

 

[Yeti]

Mind telling me why you started a counterwagon in the middle of building a case on another player?

Is that to me?

 

[Panic Station]

You're the one who voted ID during a case on Texas and then went on to specify to Twin that you were voting ID. So, yes.

 

[Yeti]

I remember specifying because Texas was like "twin might think you're voting yourself" or whatever but I don't really remember anything specific about it

I scumread id and he had better odds of actually being a wagon of note than Texas due to Josh

Uhhh

I wanted to get Texas to react to his scum buddy wagon maybe?

I honestly can't tell you I don't really remember it

 

[Panic Station]

so

when josh tried to trap card texas with the "leet is confscum and thus can be lynched any day" and texas was like "Yeah totes"

that implies texas is fine with leet not being lynched today in favor of someone else, since leet is an easy lynch for him later

#1630 So if you're team reading me with ironicdouble or hitmonleet you must think one or both of them is scum right? Who do you think could be their partners in context of jalmont as a known partner? What things do you think would point to them as partners to me or as scum individually?


in unrelated news Unvote Vote IronicDouble

#1644 Right so we don't lynch hitmonleet today unless there is no better option available because he's confirmed scum who can die at literally any point remaining in the game

(#1645 is this moody post I dislike how the alternative to the Hitmonleet wagon appears to be Ironic double, I might want to just flip Blazade today and look at the people who pushed on Ironicdouble afterwards (I'm undecisive about Pancake, if Blazade flips scum I probably lynch that slot since he's been pushing the Ironic/Hitmonleet lynch pool))

#1654 I buy ironic double and blazade as plausible partners, hawkie is still a top town read

ID i could see going for the hard bus given the lack of defense on or from leet, higher utility option, likely

don't think i see anyone else plausibly on the scum team atm, would need more flip info first

#1655 hmm i do see a scenario where ID is lock town though

#1661 alright looked into a couple things and I don't think i'm comfortable lynching ironicdouble before hitmonleet. i think if hitmonleet flips scum there's enough reasoning below the surface to lock ID as town and as before if he flips town it makes asek more likely scum. for the time being unvote Vote Blazade

at the time this vote was made id had 3 votes: asek, myself, and texas. texas switches off putting id to 2. 2's a party, 3's a crowd.

#1801 fwiw i do agree with this, leet flip is the next piece of info i'm waiting on to start the next phase of the game

texas changes his vote to leet in 1813

when id has 3 votes both moody and texas express concern about it. texas switches his vote off to blazade soon after. moody's vote is now on ironicdouble, i want to go and see what his reasoning for that vote is when he says he wants blazade lynched more.

if texas is fine with lynching confscum leet later, he feels very... apathetic... about who to lynch today. he says it's the discovery period for lynches several hundred posts ago and then places a couple wagony votes before winding back up on the hitmonleet wagon. id and blazade both had 2 other votes when texas voted and leet is, of course, big wagon.

texas doesnt really drive anything on this day. i dont see him grilling id or blazade to flesh out if he actually likes them as lynches or not. he "looks into a couple things" and moves off id.

the dude is pretty active and prominent, josh and co have played with him more but do you see the above progression where texas feels leet is a solid bet on any day to lynch but doesn't take much active action to find another lynch today?

his progression in under 200 posts comes back to "i need leet's flip for info on the next phase" which feels extremely lackluster. texas has already stated he thinks leet is confirmed scum, now he needs hitmonleet's flip before he can figure out who else is a better option or partner? :thinking:

now he's voting leet.

i also see a subtle defense of ironicdouble by both moody and texas. texas actually votes id putting him at 3 total and then 31 posts later moves off id onto blazade.

does anyone else not understand at all how id is lock town based on leet scumflip? or any circumstance where id is lock town, really?

id is one of the people who has been pushing leet hard, and id subbed in d2. blazade was pushing/voting leet since d1. it makes no sense to me to think id could be lock town off leet flipping scum but also voting blazade. the fh half of the slot totally ignored leet afaik. and no mention of if hawkie would be lock town or suspicious in relation to leet as well by texas.

if 1 of id or texas is scum i would feel pretty confident the other is a partner. i dont see texas driving any discussion with his "confscum leet" who can be lynched on any day and he ultimately decides there are no better options to lynch besides leet today. the claim id would be lock town i need some Serious elaboration on to make sense.

I've literally said I strongly think ID should not be the lynch today in what world is that subtle

in short, texas moves things away from id pretty quickly and then when too few people are willing to vote blazade bc he is afk speedrunnin, texas (having not really explored or push anyone beyond these 3) goes back to confscum leet.

it bothers me that no other wagon can gain a ton of traction on d3. which could be bc leet is The Bus or bc he's a mislynch and the mafia have no reason to let another wagon form. we obv wont know until he flips.

tfw you get mad someone underplays your defense of your scumbuddy

also careful with your votes it's not readily apparent that you're quoting me and if i were twin i might think you were actually voting ID and blazade in that post

yes it would and i'm deliberately not doing so

i am actually voting ID in my own post so.

hey twin im still voting id dw bro

 

[Empoof]

:popcorn:

 

[Yeti]

Oh well duh?

Look at him say "twin might think you're actually voting id" that read to me like he didn't want a vote on id (blazade is there too but he wasn't my main scumread at that point)

I reiterated I was voting id because I felt Texas didn't want me to and that struck me as some scumbuddybuddy

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I counterclaim yeti