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MattJ's EXTREMELY Lucky, Skill-Devoid Nationals Warstory!!!
- Thread starter mattj
- Start date
Matt im not suggesting this as your team but a gengar dugtrio lead could effectivly counter any trickroom team?
dugtrio's arena trap would be helpful to not allow switchouts
Gengar could trick a choice scarf onto the trick roomer and if they follow me then next turn Gengar could use trick room to negate it
plus levitate give dugtrio the ability to earthquake safely
dugtrio's arena trap would be helpful to not allow switchouts
Gengar could trick a choice scarf onto the trick roomer and if they follow me then next turn Gengar could use trick room to negate it
plus levitate give dugtrio the ability to earthquake safely
The solarbeams weren't intentional he said. Also, heat wave isn't necessarily outclassed by flamethrower, he may rather have double target. Chesto on Aero is reasonably, even though it should have been lum berry. It's their for the smeargle leads.
I know what you mean. I'm not lying when I say it was complete luck that got me into worlds. And I know there won't be any noobs there with Noctowl Machamp leads :P What to do now?
What if I just kept the two starters did as much damage as possible and rolled with TR if they bring it with a 63 spd Max Possible Atk Bullet Punch Scizor I've got?
I am up for a total overhaul I guess though. I can totally see the need for it. I need to do some research...
there actually was a smeargle lead in my flight too. The guy told me so. 0.0 Never had to fight him though :P Just lucky :D
Not all teams will be TR teams, just run Taunt on Areodactyl or Heatran and you'll be fine. Think about all the other threats you have. Also, if you are going to have a Sunny Day team, you might want at least one Pokemon with an ability that used the weather (Chlorophyll, etc.). And I still recommend only one fire type, make the other Pokemon a Pokemon with Fire-type attacks/SolarBeam. Also, it can be a Pokemon that can counter other teams that can benefit from Sunny Day (have types good against Fire and Grass). But I dunno. I still don't see why Typhlosion and Dugtrio are there (just use Camerupt, lol).
What about Heatran + Crobat?
from memory...
Timid Crobat (Orb?)
spd 200
Heat Wave,
Air Cutter/Twister
Taunt
Sunny Day
I've actually allready got one :D Crobat can't flinch so I guess if I saw a Ludicolo RD I could still Taunt the Kingdra or whatever, but the follow me thing still worries me. The only reason I chose Aero is because he's definitely stronger than Crobat, but it looks like I wouldn't be able to kill a Dusknoir outright anyway :P He could also throw up Sunny Day if needed and then go with Heat Wave, and still have a lil bit of dragon coverage with twister maybe...
Guys I've gotta tell you all. Your analysis is reeeeally helping me. Thank you all soooo much ^.6
from memory...
Timid Crobat (Orb?)
spd 200
Heat Wave,
Air Cutter/Twister
Taunt
Sunny Day
I've actually allready got one :D Crobat can't flinch so I guess if I saw a Ludicolo RD I could still Taunt the Kingdra or whatever, but the follow me thing still worries me. The only reason I chose Aero is because he's definitely stronger than Crobat, but it looks like I wouldn't be able to kill a Dusknoir outright anyway :P He could also throw up Sunny Day if needed and then go with Heat Wave, and still have a lil bit of dragon coverage with twister maybe...
Guys I've gotta tell you all. Your analysis is reeeeally helping me. Thank you all soooo much ^.6
air slash is probably the best flying move for him and a sash would do better than a orb because he is so frail
True True...
I'd actually keep things simple and focus on a heavy yet bulky offense in the most part.
Have taunt and stuff there just to be safe, but what I'd do with that team Vs. standard goodstuffs would be to sunny day on Aerodactyl while Heatran heat waves for massive damage. Then continue throwing out double STAB heat waves backed up with flinching rock slides until all the opponents are down.
Not that simple obviously as it depends on the opponent, but that would be how I'd use this team in general. It will have trouble against Zerowing's team design (not sure if it can KO garchomp in 1 turn, while both it and Zapdos pose huge threats) and possibly trick room but it's not really the end of the world if they get a trick room up. Still a disaster, but not as bad as some things that could happen (e.g. your Dusknoir gets critted first turn by a Gengar shadow ball as it's setting up, having had its EVs arranged for a standard hit to be a 2HKO, meaning that the Metagross meteor mash which presumably was also going to hit Dusknoir and which he would survive instead hits my Gengar, breaking his sash, and boosts the opponent Metagross's attack. Yeah that's what happened to me in London, all the first turn. Had just that crit not have happened, I could probably have swept Sadman's team with my swift swim sweepers since most were designed to beat all the threats that were on his team. Not the case this year).
Have taunt and stuff there just to be safe, but what I'd do with that team Vs. standard goodstuffs would be to sunny day on Aerodactyl while Heatran heat waves for massive damage. Then continue throwing out double STAB heat waves backed up with flinching rock slides until all the opponents are down.
Not that simple obviously as it depends on the opponent, but that would be how I'd use this team in general. It will have trouble against Zerowing's team design (not sure if it can KO garchomp in 1 turn, while both it and Zapdos pose huge threats) and possibly trick room but it's not really the end of the world if they get a trick room up. Still a disaster, but not as bad as some things that could happen (e.g. your Dusknoir gets critted first turn by a Gengar shadow ball as it's setting up, having had its EVs arranged for a standard hit to be a 2HKO, meaning that the Metagross meteor mash which presumably was also going to hit Dusknoir and which he would survive instead hits my Gengar, breaking his sash, and boosts the opponent Metagross's attack. Yeah that's what happened to me in London, all the first turn. Had just that crit not have happened, I could probably have swept Sadman's team with my swift swim sweepers since most were designed to beat all the threats that were on his team. Not the case this year).
Hey, I have an emporium of VGC teams, just shoot me a PM and I will help find the right one FOR YOU!
I personally think we should help him make his own team instead of giving him "Cookie-Cutter" teams.
Either Crobat or Areodactyl works well as a Taunter IMO.
Either Crobat or Areodactyl works well as a Taunter IMO.
Quick Question:
If Follow Me is a Speed Priority +3 how can you possibly counter it?!?!?! Say, Dusknoir and Smeargle come out. Smeargle uses Follow Me. If Smeargle has a focus sash, unless you use like double hit or something and KO it, you CAN'T right?
So I guess you shouldn't TRY to use taunt on Dusknoir if there's a Smeargle, Clefable, Sentret, or Togekiss next to it right? What would be the point of Taunt then? Shouldn't you just Set up Sunny Day or just attack them with all you've got?
This was actually my idea in the very first place. So many teams seem so hard to set up and use that I was just like, Screw it, while they're setting up I'll attack or set myself up. Get at least 1 turn of damage in on them that way.
Oh yeah, my old team can KO a garchomp with that anit-ice berry. That's how I got to worlds ;) I haven't even touched my DS since then, but it might even have the vid still in it :D
Yeah, I don't really like to just copy other peoples teams, even if what I try doesn't work. It's just no fun that way. I don't even really like following the EV Spreads on this site 0_o Feels to much like copying...
Once again, I seriously do appreciate all of your help in pointing out my flaws and suggesting ideas ^.6
If Follow Me is a Speed Priority +3 how can you possibly counter it?!?!?! Say, Dusknoir and Smeargle come out. Smeargle uses Follow Me. If Smeargle has a focus sash, unless you use like double hit or something and KO it, you CAN'T right?
So I guess you shouldn't TRY to use taunt on Dusknoir if there's a Smeargle, Clefable, Sentret, or Togekiss next to it right? What would be the point of Taunt then? Shouldn't you just Set up Sunny Day or just attack them with all you've got?
This was actually my idea in the very first place. So many teams seem so hard to set up and use that I was just like, Screw it, while they're setting up I'll attack or set myself up. Get at least 1 turn of damage in on them that way.
Oh yeah, my old team can KO a garchomp with that anit-ice berry. That's how I got to worlds ;) I haven't even touched my DS since then, but it might even have the vid still in it :D
Yeah, I don't really like to just copy other peoples teams, even if what I try doesn't work. It's just no fun that way. I don't even really like following the EV Spreads on this site 0_o Feels to much like copying...
Once again, I seriously do appreciate all of your help in pointing out my flaws and suggesting ideas ^.6
If you come up against a Dusknoir/Smeargle lead I would just rock slide and heat wave. Either way, Smeargle gets killed and Dusknoir takes heavy damage with a 30% chance of flinching. That's one kill right off the bat and heavy damage on the other, at least. I'd consider that a decent trade-off for a possible trick room setup which may not even happen anyway. Just hit stuff hard and fast and with a chance of flinching. Play hard and fast with minimal risk and you should do well.
Thank you that's comforting. That's how it worked at Nationals. I'm just worried that there will be hordes of TR and RD teams at Worlds. That's the gist I get from the forums :/
How would a 63spd Flareon with a Macho Brace do as a replacement for the Dugtrio? Good Attack. Decent Defence. Low Speed which would be good if they DO get TR off. and if they don't I can just Helping Hand with Crobat, Heatran, or Typhlosion's 2X moves to boost them...
Hmm...Sunny Day + Helping Hand + Heatwave = Pretty big attack on 2 pokes! :D
Hmmm.... maybe Crobat over Aero? Crobat could boost it's Heatwave with SD anyway...
I doubt that TR and RD teams will be that much, and like I said, you really shouldn't run a slow Pokemon JUST to outslow TR teams, as you might lose against some of the others because of it. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, you can afford to do this as 40 cards are a lot more than 4 Pokemon with 4 moves each. But Taunt is definitely worth running.
Here is how the battle could go.
You send out Heatran and Crobat.
Your opponent sends out Smeargle and Dusknoir.
Smeargle uses Follow Me.
Scarf Heatran should outspeed your Crobat, so use your strongest move on Smeargle only and make it faint.
Crobat uses Taunt on Dusknoir.
Dusknoir's Trick Room fails.
Don't worry about one type of team too much, you have lots more you have to also worry about at Worlds. ;-)
What smeargle doesnt run focus sash?
Crobat sounds good, it forces them to follow me if they have it, if not they will fake out heatran or protect. You could do a double heat wave I guess for smeargle + dusk or try for the taunt still, it isn't easy to counter TR solely with 2 leads.
Hmmm Double Heat wave? kill Smeargle and Hurt/Possibly burn Dusknoir? There are ust soooo many possibilities...
Oh, Flareon is sloooooow, but Helping hand is priority, and if it only boosted 1 attack I could see it being crap, but on my team it would probably boost 2 attacks each turn (at least I think that's how it works still in doubles :/) It almost seems to be worth it then...
Dusknoir will be running lum berry. To be honest, you need to get on IRC or some other chat and talk to people so you don't reveal your team to much.
Yeah for sure, I'm really not too concerned though about :u .... REVEALING MY TEAM!!!!!!
I'll still have 2 secret pokes in reserves for if I play someone I know or someone from this site ;D
Oh, and I still don't know if 63/2 is slow enough to outspeed anything in TR? I know of a good list of the top 100 speeds, but not the bottom (of evolved forms I guess?)
Crap, forgot.
It'll outspeed some stuff. I recommend looking for TR teams in RMT (Archives preferably) to see what their speeds are. It'll outspeed something for sure though, but definitely not everything. You also waste an item on Macho Brace (I only personally use that on Pokemon with Gyro Ball like Bronzong). IMO, if you care this much, use some priority moves. Too bad there is no Fire Priority, :-(.
EDIT: As for the team, you can trust me. I still have to THINK of a team (it is the hardest thing EVER in this gen), so I am most likely not going to Worlds anytime soon (I don't even have Platinum).
Since you already have the beginnings of a Sunny Day team, I'll show you a SD team I made up recentely:
Crobat (M) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- Protect
- Brave Bird
Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 Spd / 180 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Heat Wave
- Protect/Encore/U-turn
Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
Cherrim (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
- Protect
- Helping Hand
The moves on Crobat can be changed so that it fits your already-bred Crobat better (Brave Bird replaced with Heat Wave, Jolly replaced with Timid, EVs switched from Attack into Special Attack), and the last move on Infernape is up to you. Protect is great for predicting (especially with Focus Sash, allowing you to survive another turn at 1 HP and waste your opponent's attempt to kill Infernape). Encore is nice against teams that try to set up, but you need to be faster than the pokemon you are Encoring (so that you can ensure you trap them into a bad move). This makes it rather situational. Another way Encore can be used is to use supreme prediction and Encore a Protect/Detect from your opponent on the turn that they use it. U-turn is another option, allowing you to hit an opponent and then switch out safely.
The main strategy is to get Sunny Day set up with Crobat so that Cherrim and Garchomp can come in at the same time and destroy with Flower Gift + Helping Hand. This gives Garchomp a 1.5 boost to his considerable Attack value and another 1.5 boost on the damage calculation. The EVs on Cherrim allow it to survive two Flower Gift + Helping Hand Earthquakes from Garchomp due to its' handy Ground resist, and Rock Slide has the nice flinch chance when you are facing fliers or don't want to hurt Cherrim. Cherrim can also serve as a backup Sunny Day user, and has Solarbeam to take advantage the sun as well.
If you see something you don't like in your opponents' leads, you can use Fake Out + Taunt to stop them. Crobat is useful in that he cannot be flinched, by Fake Out or by other means (Fling, etc.) Against Smeargle + Dusknoir, use Fake Out + Taunt, aiming Taunt at Dusknoir. If they use Follow Me with Smeargle, finish it off next turn with Mach Punch and Taunt Dusknoir. Now, although they do have TR set up, you can attempt to stall it out with Protect, Focus Sash, and other such things while you set up Sun for when TR ends. Try to kill Dusknoir or Taunt it again if the first one runs out before Crobat dies, or he will set up TR again as soon as the first one ends.
Again, it's not perfect, but you have some of the pieces already, and you seem to like the idea of a Sunny Day team. If anyone has any suggestions to improve this team, I am very open to new ideas.
Crobat (M) @ Heat Rock
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sunny Day
- Taunt
- Protect
- Brave Bird
Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 Spd / 180 SAtk
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Fake Out
- Mach Punch
- Heat Wave
- Protect/Encore/U-turn
Garchomp (M) @ Yache Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Dragon Claw
- Protect
Cherrim (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flower Gift
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
- Protect
- Helping Hand
The moves on Crobat can be changed so that it fits your already-bred Crobat better (Brave Bird replaced with Heat Wave, Jolly replaced with Timid, EVs switched from Attack into Special Attack), and the last move on Infernape is up to you. Protect is great for predicting (especially with Focus Sash, allowing you to survive another turn at 1 HP and waste your opponent's attempt to kill Infernape). Encore is nice against teams that try to set up, but you need to be faster than the pokemon you are Encoring (so that you can ensure you trap them into a bad move). This makes it rather situational. Another way Encore can be used is to use supreme prediction and Encore a Protect/Detect from your opponent on the turn that they use it. U-turn is another option, allowing you to hit an opponent and then switch out safely.
The main strategy is to get Sunny Day set up with Crobat so that Cherrim and Garchomp can come in at the same time and destroy with Flower Gift + Helping Hand. This gives Garchomp a 1.5 boost to his considerable Attack value and another 1.5 boost on the damage calculation. The EVs on Cherrim allow it to survive two Flower Gift + Helping Hand Earthquakes from Garchomp due to its' handy Ground resist, and Rock Slide has the nice flinch chance when you are facing fliers or don't want to hurt Cherrim. Cherrim can also serve as a backup Sunny Day user, and has Solarbeam to take advantage the sun as well.
If you see something you don't like in your opponents' leads, you can use Fake Out + Taunt to stop them. Crobat is useful in that he cannot be flinched, by Fake Out or by other means (Fling, etc.) Against Smeargle + Dusknoir, use Fake Out + Taunt, aiming Taunt at Dusknoir. If they use Follow Me with Smeargle, finish it off next turn with Mach Punch and Taunt Dusknoir. Now, although they do have TR set up, you can attempt to stall it out with Protect, Focus Sash, and other such things while you set up Sun for when TR ends. Try to kill Dusknoir or Taunt it again if the first one runs out before Crobat dies, or he will set up TR again as soon as the first one ends.
Again, it's not perfect, but you have some of the pieces already, and you seem to like the idea of a Sunny Day team. If anyone has any suggestions to improve this team, I am very open to new ideas.
*.* OOOOOH Preeeeety!!!!
Definitely some good ideas. Why the Garchomp? Just a curveball?