Metagame Mega Evolution in Sun & Moon

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Vague

Banned deucer.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y | Blaze
Hasty | 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fire Blast / Solar Beam / Focus Blast / Thunder Punch

yeah so Zard Y is actually pretty good rn mainly for the many perks it's typing brings to the table (Genesect, phero, aegis, bulu, etc. check) while hitting extremely hard, but it's really hard for it break as effectively with mantine and pelipper literally everywhere so this is a little something i've used a few times on teams that especially hated mantine. thunder punch in combination of fire blast often nabs a KO on mantine (sr + tpunch maims it too) while pelipper is OHKOed by thunder punch + rocks with a little prior damage (fblast + tpunch + rocks). the loss of roost might be too much for some people since it them becomes a flimsier check to some things, but thunder punch is certainly a cool move option to bypass two of it's most common counters rn.

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Thunder Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Mantine: 224-264 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Mega Charizard Y Thunder Punch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 164-196 (51 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Alakazam @ Alakazite | Magic Guard
Timid | 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Psyshock | Psychic / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball / Knock Off | Calm Mind

mega zam is super good rn and will probably remain exceptional throughout the entirety of the generation. it demolishes a lot of builds that have been weakened just enough for it to clean with impunity. so a lot of people either run 4 attacks or encore in the last slot, which is honestly a pretty underwhelming move in general even if it can shift momentum in your favor. 4 attacks is solid though with dazzling gleam in the last slot, but if aegislash gets banned dazzling gleam is nice perhaps even better than shadow ball. considering sball only hits opposing psychics which is pretty much restricted to mega meta, rachi, lati's, and lele. (the former two are hit hard by focus blast but accuracy might pressure some people to play it safe, and the lati's are slammed by dgleam. lele is the only one that'll present an issue) gleam breaks mega sab and when paired with knock off + psyshock, it absolutely screws over stall in the highest degree while still retaining an excellent matchup against the other playstyles. zam's best set imo since you don't exactly miss out on anything when running knock off. calm mind is cool too, since a +1 psychic is ridiculous but it's fraility presents issues when attempting to setup.
 
Because Kangaskhan still has its Seismic Toss set which deals 200 damage regardless of Intimidates/Screens/burn, and so on.
Something like this:
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Protect
- Sucker Punch/Foresight
- Wish

Protect+Wish is here for recovery; Seismic Toss for "neutral" 200 damage to each pokemon not being a Ghost type. Sucker Punch is a filler and Foresight nullifies the Ghost problem.
EVs are simple: max HP in order to increase its bulk on both sides of the spectrum, whereas Jolly nature and max Spe is here for a fast Seismic Toss.
The Seismic Toss was always more of a gimmick imo, and never really considered as the reason for why Kangaskhanite was banned.

Maybe we'll see a retest, but I highly doubt it. Even with the 25% nerf, Parent Bond still hits extremely hard, still breaks sashes, breaks substitutes, and gives you the +2 with Power-Up Punch. All its introduction would do would be to force the metagame back into counters like Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Sableye, and Cofagrigus. Anything that isn't that, would still likely see an OHKO at +2. I mean, for example, if the Garchomp user switches in on the Power-up Punch, they still have a chance of being 2HKOd with the combo of Pup + Return, although you do take a lot from Rocky Helmet. I mean, the Sucker Punch nerf had some impact, but not necessarily a substantial amount, and you had the bulk regardless to eat a hit from anything that wasn't a fighting type. Even all of these things combined wouldn't stop Mega Kangaskhan from being broken.

Regarldess, it was really unhealthy for the meta, and if you were there during early XY, you'd know games were very often determined by who go their Kangaskhan out first.
 
This is probably a dumb question, but I feel I have to ask it; though you can only get certain mega stones in sun/moon, you can't yet get some of the pokemon they belong to, like venusaur and charizard. Why is it that they're allowed?
 

another one that is going to rise in the future, mega scizor is actually better than sab at the momment, checks all tapus bar lele with hp fire, wrecks pheromosa and buzzwole, with SD + knock off/brutal swing can check a-marowak and aegislash, and is a nice counter to both mega alaka and mega meta, i would say that mega scizor biggest problems right now is the 4mss and trouble with ev spread, SD+BP+stab bug+knock of/brutal swing +roost is everything you want, but you can't have it all, and you want to go bulky to set up better, but also wants the damage to beat things like tapu lele and a-marowak easier.

edit: i have seen some hype on sharpedo, but i see very little reasons to use it over gyarados, also mega slowbro and mega aerodactyl seems to have lost their niches tnks to the new threats making them underwelming (mega aero can check non boosted pheromosa, but thats all about it).
I'm curious to hear what type of sets Mega Scizor should/will be running in Sun and Moon. I'd like to start breeding Scythers for my in-game team, but I'm not sure if I should be going Adamant, Jolly or Impish. And then the question becomes what EV spread and moves are ideal...because you're right, it does have a serious case of 4MSS.

I'm also noticing more and more people using Mega Sharpedo with Protect, Crunch, Psychic Fangs and Poison Jab. Interesting to see it forgo the Water Stab but it appears the other coverage is still considerable.
 
Just going to point something out that I think a lot of people are missing: the unavailable Mega Evolutions do exist in the game, but just aren't obtainable (yet). You can face them in the Battle Tree, and if you want conclusive proof just look in the game's code, etc: you'll find the stats for the megas, and the items. Hack in the items (eg. Loppunite) and they're just as functional as any other mega.

I believe the reason the Unused Mega Stones are not obtainable is because most of the Pokemon they are for are not obtainable in the game right now (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't recall seeing any of the Pokemon in the list of unavailable Megas to actually be in the Alolan PokeDex. I do have a valid reason as to why they're unavailable as well: why get a Mega Stone you cannot use? Common sense says you wouldn't (Please don't hurt me ;-;), as it would waste BP you could spend on preparing for VGC, which Nintendo and TCPi are backing a ton right now. Yes, I know that Mega Stones aren't usable in VGC. I mean that the BP would literally be wasted since the items themselves would have absolutely no use until January.

I think that once Bank comes out, the Mega Stones will be released either;
  • Through an Update to the Battle Tree
  • Through Events
  • Simply showing the Pokemon to a person or the Mega Stone sellers(?)
Do I think they are ever going to be released personally? I'm sure as sure can be. I think we're all overreacting to this situation: at least we have Megas to use right now. I'm on the fence on the note of Diancite being buyable (valid point against my theory), but maybe they'll pull a cutscene in the Pokemon Centers again or something. Maybe an event makes the stone buyable: maybe it's both? Who knows?

TL;DR Since most of the Pokemon aren't in the game yet, their respective Mega Stones are not obtainable.

Personally, I think a Gen 7 OM with "All Megas" in would be an appropriate action to hakuna the matatas on all the Pokebank OU Players.
 
So since Inceneroar ended up being slow and everything, are we excited about Mega Houndoom getting the mega evolution speed buff or is his lack of coverage / desire for another mega to set sun / something else leaving us unimpressed?
 
For Mega Sharpedo is there any reason to run Adamant over Jolly (or vice versa)? Are there notable KOs that Adamant achieves or notable things that are outsped at +1 with Jolly to warrant one over the other?
 
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Wait I do not understand...So I realize the actual SM game doesn't have certain Mega Stones available. But why does showdown not have them? If the actual mechanics of mega evolution are still present why can't we use all of them on Showdown? I don't understand the benefits of doing this... What's the thought process? Is it just to follow what the actual game on 3DS is doing?
 

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Wait I do not understand...So I realize the actual SM game doesn't have certain Mega Stones available. But why does showdown not have them? If the actual mechanics of mega evolution are still present why can't we use all of them on Showdown? I don't understand the benefits of doing this... What's the thought process? Is it just to follow what the actual game on 3DS is doing?
Because we don't know if they'll actually be released, even if they're coded into the game. Things only become available on PS when available on cart (with the exception of Pokebank metagames) and just because it exists in the code doesn't mean it'll be released. See: Thousand Arrows/Waves in Gen 6, gems, Berry Juice in gen 3
 
Because we don't know if they'll actually be released, even if they're coded into the game. Things only become available on PS when available on cart (with the exception of Pokebank metagames) and just because it exists in the code doesn't mean it'll be released. See: Thousand Arrows/Waves in Gen 6, gems, Berry Juice in gen 3
Wait I do not understand...So I realize the actual SM game doesn't have certain Mega Stones available. But why does showdown not have them? If the actual mechanics of mega evolution are still present why can't we use all of them on Showdown? I don't understand the benefits of doing this... What's the thought process? Is it just to follow what the actual game on 3DS is doing?
Tbh it's best to just have an OM with the unreleased Pokemon in them just to shut everyone up at this point.

Also, news flash: Pokemon Showdown is a SIMULATION of the actual Pokemon Games, and is designed for testing teams. It's not it's own game, and having unreleased Pokemon in their official tiers would not only ruin the concept of a simulator, but also cause it to become a "threat" to the success of Sun & Moon. This would result in a C&D which TCPi and Nintendo have been wanting to do for years.
 
The worst thing about the cut Mega stones is that the corresponding Megas are still there. I have had NPCs in battle royal use Mega Audino and Mega Beedrill against me multiple times. This SUCKS, considering I wasn't able to use Mega Beedrill last gen thx to the more than stupid mid-gen cut off and now I can't use it because literally no reason other than "lol let's cut them".

To be constructive here though, I don't think Mega evolution will be as prevalent as last gen. Many of the available ones are banned ones, bad ones or ones where the base pokemon is arguably better. I have built mega-less teams in the XY meta and succeeded with them, so it's not as if Megas were required to win. What WILL probably happen though, is a rather hard centralisation on which Mega will be seen most. I'm looking at Mega Alakazam for the most part, since it's one of the actually available Megas that really loves the new speed mechanic and works really well with Psychic Terrain(Tapu Lele) and some of the new mons. Getting a frail sweeper like Zam in after activating Emergency Exit is a pretty cool new thing to do.
 

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Just going to point something out that I think a lot of people are missing: the unavailable Mega Evolutions do exist in the game, but just aren't obtainable (yet). You can face them in the Battle Tree, and if you want conclusive proof just look in the game's code, etc: you'll find the stats for the megas, and the items. Hack in the items (eg. Loppunite) and they're just as functional as any other mega.

I believe the reason the Unused Mega Stones are not obtainable is because most of the Pokemon they are for are not obtainable in the game right now (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't recall seeing any of the Pokemon in the list of unavailable Megas to actually be in the Alolan PokeDex. I do have a valid reason as to why they're unavailable as well: why get a Mega Stone you cannot use? Common sense says you wouldn't (Please don't hurt me ;-;), as it would waste BP you could spend on preparing for VGC, which Nintendo and TCPi are backing a ton right now. Yes, I know that Mega Stones aren't usable in VGC. I mean that the BP would literally be wasted since the items themselves would have absolutely no use until January.

I think that once Bank comes out, the Mega Stones will be released either;
  • Through an Update to the Battle Tree
  • Through Events
  • Simply showing the Pokemon to a person or the Mega Stone sellers(?)
Do I think they are ever going to be released personally? I'm sure as sure can be. I think we're all overreacting to this situation: at least we have Megas to use right now. I'm on the fence on the note of Diancite being buyable (valid point against my theory), but maybe they'll pull a cutscene in the Pokemon Centers again or something. Maybe an event makes the stone buyable: maybe it's both? Who knows?

TL;DR Since most of the Pokemon aren't in the game yet, their respective Mega Stones are not obtainable.

Personally, I think a Gen 7 OM with "All Megas" in would be an appropriate action to hakuna the matatas on all the Pokebank OU Players.
In short, the reason behind getting some megas, getting some stones but no pokes to mega, getting no stones for some pokes to mega:

Marketing.

Rather than GF, it's probably more correct to say that this is The Pokemon Company's work, and they are very good at it.
 
To try to steer discussion back towards battling:

Of the megas available, Venusaur, Scizor, and Metagross seem to be the best for bulky teams, while Alakazam, Gyarados, and Charizard are the scariest to face on offense.
Venusaur is bulky as usual, and Scizor is a great staple mon and defogger as usual, but I'm going to spend more time on the other 4:




I've been using Megagross lately, and I can say it is real good. Its ability to switch into Tapu Lele helps all kinds of teams; having either Megagross or Jirachi on your team seems almost necessary for bulky offense. In addition to eating up all of Lele's STABs, Megagross benefits from a boosted Zen Headbutt in Psychic Terrain, which is awesome.


If Pheromosa gets banned, I could see Mega Alakazam becoming even better than it is now (it's really good now), because it will be faster than pretty much all unboosted threats. Trace is also a very underrated ability, I've seen people talk about Tracing Beast Boost or Psychic Surge, but I think one of the most useful things to trace is Regenerator. This has happened to me many times, I'll have my Toxapex out and MZam will come in and trace Regenerator, forcing me to switch out and getting to fire off a strong STAB attack then heal 33% once switching out. Lets it remain a threat for almost the entire game if played right.

Mega Metagross and Alazakazam also benefit from Tapu Lele's Psychic terrain, and Psychic spam seems to be very easy to play, and very hard to beat right now.




Both Charizards seem pretty good, I would argue that X is a lot better than Y though. I have played against many Char-Ys, and it still baffles me how little damage it does to Toxapex, even in the sun.
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 122+ SpD Toxapex: 97-114 (32 - 37.6%) -- 93.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 248 HP / 122+ SpD Toxapex: 94-111 (31 - 36.6%) -- 66.7% chance to 3HKO
4 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 148 Def Toxapex: 70-84 (23.1 - 27.7%) -- 68.2% chance to 4HKO
Toxapex laughs at Char-Y, even in the sun, and has time to throw out a few Scalds and wear it down with Toxic.
For something thats supposed to be a wallbreaker, this thing isn't doing it. Also, variants without Thunderpunch lose to Pelliper and Mantine, both of which are increasingly common. If you want a wallbreaker, use Tapu Lele and free up another spot for a mega on your team.
A defensive Char-X seems like a stronger force in the metagame now, spreading burns and healing with Roost. Plus, DD is always a threat.


Mega Gyarados is the pokemon that scares me the most right now, at +1/+1 it wrecks teams, and you have a hard time stopping it if Aurora Veil is up. That combo (A-Ninetales/M-Gyara) seems very hard to beat, because not only does A-Ninetales provide support, but it beats things that would otherwise stop M-Gyara (Chesnaught).
How do we stop this thing?
 
Well now that's just disheartening. After hearing about the speed buffs, I was really hype for using Mega Beedrill since it was one of my favorite megas design-wise, and I've already used the two megas I like more than it in previous generations (I'm a cartridge player, not a Showdown player, although I've played a bit on SD just to see some competition; my preferred playstyle is only "mostly" competitive and doesn't hold up to full on hardcore OU players).

But now I can't give it its deserved turn yet, nor can I pick the next mega in my line (Gardevoir), nor can I go back to my all-time favorite (Gallade).

I really hope GameFreak just does something like adding an NPC that sells the new stones, or just lets us download them from Mystery Gift (and not be a limited time offer: I like to restart my game and play through with my newly bred try-hard teams once I finish my blind run).
 
+

It says we can discuss cores in the OP so why the hell not. What do you all think of this? Cool defensive backbone I've been using recently that covers a pretty decent amount of whats being used and isn't passive af. The two key threats Venusaur covers are Tapu Koko (usually) and Pheromosa in addition to all the things you would expect it to. Of course Phero will usually u-turn out to Tapu Lele when you switch in but that's what Celesteela's for, who beats most variants of Lele as well as beating Latios and other Psychic types, and beats other Pokemon Venusaur doesn't. Be aware of Specs Lele; HP Fire can 2HKO Steela with Rocks.

Naturally you're going to want partners that can beat Heatran, opposing Celesteela, Genesect, and also another check to Phero and Koko. Any other big ones that I'm missing?
Personally I've found Heatran to be a good partner for reasons that are probably obvious. Another good one is SubCoil Zygarde who beats opposing Heatran and Celesteela and can help a bit with the offence matchup if you put some EVs in speed. I usually use Tapu Fini for hazard removal and stallbreaking, it synergises decently well with the two. Venusaur is also capable of beating some threats to Manaphy, so you can sweep with that if you are so inclined.

Sets I use if you're interested:
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Protect
- Leech Seed

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 SpD
Bold Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Knock Off


But I doubt what I've been doing is the be-all and end-all to this core and I'm interested to see what others think about it. Key threats? Good partners/alternatives? Sets? Is it even good? Any other thoughts you have?
 
In short, the reason behind getting some megas, getting some stones but no pokes to mega, getting no stones for some pokes to mega:

Marketing.

Rather than GF, it's probably more correct to say that this is The Pokemon Company's work, and they are very good at it.
It's not marketing, it's common sense.
Ok where did you get the idea of marketing in the first place? I never even mentioned it.

Why waste valuable BP you could be using to prepare for the VGC Internationals (note it's Game Freak here, so VGC applies and not Smogon) when you could be using it to get the Mega Stones that are actually usable? The thing is, even if the Mega Stones were in the game at this moment, how would you use them? You couldn't, as you can't get the Pokemon either. In short, you wouldn't even buy them, as they are basically useless items at this moment in time.

So why would you add Mega Stones for Pokemon you can't even get? It's a really simple answer: you wouldn't. Obviously they would be available when Bank is out.

 

Chou Toshio

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It's not marketing, it's common sense.
Ok where did you get the idea of marketing in the first place? I never even mentioned it.

Why waste valuable BP you could be using to prepare for the VGC Internationals (note it's Game Freak here, so VGC applies and not Smogon) when you could be using it to get the Mega Stones that are actually usable? The thing is, even if the Mega Stones were in the game at this moment, how would you use them? You couldn't, as you can't get the Pokemon either. In short, you wouldn't even buy them, as they are basically useless items at this moment in time.

So why would you add Mega Stones for Pokemon you can't even get? It's a really simple answer: you wouldn't. Obviously they would be available when Bank is out.
Ugh... I'm only saying that the reason for GF controlling Pokémon availability of Pokémon almost always has to do with marketing-- controlling buzz and excitement for the game. Keeping people engaged longer. Doing events.

Though some limitations may have been made to shape the VGC competitive experience and highlight some new Pokémon, those decisions also have at their core-- marketing.

Also I didn't really make a post to respond to any particular user.

It just seemed that many users were confused by limited mega availability. Those limitations make sense in the context of business.
 
Ugh... I'm only saying that the reason for GF controlling Pokémon availability of Pokémon almost always has to do with marketing-- controlling buzz and excitement for the game. Keeping people engaged longer. Doing events.

Though some limitations may have been made to shape the VGC competitive experience and highlight some new Pokémon, those decisions also have at their core-- marketing.

Also I didn't really make a post to respond to any particular user.

It just seemed that many users were confused by limited mega availability. Those limitations make sense in the context of business.
So basicvlay the same reason why you couldn't complete the national dex solely using the first games of a given generation then? (Excluding 1 and 2)
 
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