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Mega-Salamence: considering a quick ban (Don't ask for the thread to be closed!)
- Thread starter haunter
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't GF have a larger banlist than us? We have a couple more Clauses, but on the whole they ban a whole lot more and their justification for doing so (mostly availability for Event-Exclusives) is pretty bullshit.
First off mega mence is uber material with it's high attack, speed, STAB moves, and Aerilate ability. Sure smogon bans a lot of megas, but leaving mega mence would leave it without many counters, therefore a broken meta. Everyone who plays OU can agree on it's obsurd power.
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lairon: 13-15 (7.7 - 8.9%)
4 Atk Lairon Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 126-150 (74.1 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
MegaMence for NU. But let's be serious here, I'd call it broken but that's beating on a dead horse.
But in all seriousness, joke's on me because I play in different formats where Mega Khan and Mega Mence are free game (like VGC).
4 Atk Lairon Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Salamence: 126-150 (74.1 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
MegaMence for NU. But let's be serious here, I'd call it broken but that's beating on a dead horse.
Because Celebi and Phione rape the living shit out of Mega Khan and everyone knows it. MegaMence is but an ant to these game-breaking forces GF shields us from.
But in all seriousness, joke's on me because I play in different formats where Mega Khan and Mega Mence are free game (like VGC).
On the subject of official (VGC) vs smogon bans there are a few factors people don't consider
Besides excluding Pokemon you can't get ingame like Deoxys, Mew or Phione and Pokemon with insanely high stats without abilities that hinder to use those aka "Ubers" like Kyurem, Reshiram or Mewtwo, the VGCs exclude Pokemon that are transfered making some Pokemon less broken like no Wish or SM Mega Kanga, Heat Wave Zapdos (on VGC2014) or Body Slam Dragonite (who would run that anyways).
It feels like we are banning more, because pokemon get suspected in smaller groups and are allowed at the beginning unlike Game Freak which has banned Pokemon from the very start, we ban/unban Pokemon over time (example: Blaziken).
In case you didn't notice, most complains come from WiFi players who get used to those rules because of things like Battle Frontier, Battle Mansion etc which already has those rules from the very start.
I don't know if Mega Mence is balanced in VGCs or Doubles (considering that Mence is already a notable threat and STAB Hyper Voice + EQ is pretty scary), but that is a completely different Meta than Singles.
It has been mentioned multiple times, but people need to realise that Mega Mence is the description of broken.
It is way harder to check like any other pokemon that was banned, the revenge kill argument which has been brought back then does not even apply on this monster (Mamo can't OHKO it with banned Ice Shards o.o), it has one set that is so good which makes it other rarely seen sets even more threatening.
I don't have the damage calculator, but if I might recall a battle I watched a week ago, +3 4 Atk Mega Mence can 2HKO a standard 0 HP/4 Def Mega Metagross and with that great bulk, it is pretty easy to set up with Mega Mence.
Besides excluding Pokemon you can't get ingame like Deoxys, Mew or Phione and Pokemon with insanely high stats without abilities that hinder to use those aka "Ubers" like Kyurem, Reshiram or Mewtwo, the VGCs exclude Pokemon that are transfered making some Pokemon less broken like no Wish or SM Mega Kanga, Heat Wave Zapdos (on VGC2014) or Body Slam Dragonite (who would run that anyways).
It feels like we are banning more, because pokemon get suspected in smaller groups and are allowed at the beginning unlike Game Freak which has banned Pokemon from the very start, we ban/unban Pokemon over time (example: Blaziken).
In case you didn't notice, most complains come from WiFi players who get used to those rules because of things like Battle Frontier, Battle Mansion etc which already has those rules from the very start.
I don't know if Mega Mence is balanced in VGCs or Doubles (considering that Mence is already a notable threat and STAB Hyper Voice + EQ is pretty scary), but that is a completely different Meta than Singles.
It has been mentioned multiple times, but people need to realise that Mega Mence is the description of broken.
It is way harder to check like any other pokemon that was banned, the revenge kill argument which has been brought back then does not even apply on this monster (Mamo can't OHKO it with banned Ice Shards o.o), it has one set that is so good which makes it other rarely seen sets even more threatening.
I don't have the damage calculator, but if I might recall a battle I watched a week ago, +3 4 Atk Mega Mence can 2HKO a standard 0 HP/4 Def Mega Metagross and with that great bulk, it is pretty easy to set up with Mega Mence.
Mega-mence needs to be Quick Banned.
1. It can set up a dragon dance relatively easily, especially with its huge bulk.
2. It is very hard to revenge kill due to its massive bulk + access to roost. About the only thing that can revenge kill mega-salamence after a dragon dance is scarf Greninja.
3. Although the Return/Roost/DragonDance/CoverageMoveOrSubstitute set is devastating, Mega-mence has other options that are also absurdly deadly, like MixMence or Special Salamence. These variants murder the counters to the first set (mostly kill steel types with Flamethrower/FireBlast). However, if you don't assume salamence is about to mega-evolve and dragon dance in your face, you can be very easily swept by the common DD variants.
4. You can tell by usage statistics that the mega-mence is overcentralizing. The meta is currently filled with:
-Mega-Mence (is broken)
-Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn (Bulk to block mega-mence, carry shed shell to resist trapping by magnezone)
-Magnezone (trap the steel types that stop your mence from sweeping)
-Scarf Greninja (revenge OHKO's salamence after a DD with ice beam, clear out enemy fairy types for your mence with gunk shot)
-Landorus-T (intimidate Mega-Mence after a DD, set up rocks against enemy mence)
-Latias (bring your mence back to full)
-Rotom-W (resist mence before a DD, volt switch with lots of SpAtk investment to break a salamence sub)
-Mammoswine (set up rocks against enemy mence, ice shard to kill mence after some prior damage)
That is it. I saw a bunch of competitive matches, and it was so common to see people going against each other with 5/6 pokemon on their team being identical.
Summary: 1. Easy to set up. 2. Hard to revenge kill. 3. Has other options to kill counters. 4. Over-centralizing
Please quickban. It has the same problems as mega-kangaskhan.
1. It can set up a dragon dance relatively easily, especially with its huge bulk.
2. It is very hard to revenge kill due to its massive bulk + access to roost. About the only thing that can revenge kill mega-salamence after a dragon dance is scarf Greninja.
3. Although the Return/Roost/DragonDance/CoverageMoveOrSubstitute set is devastating, Mega-mence has other options that are also absurdly deadly, like MixMence or Special Salamence. These variants murder the counters to the first set (mostly kill steel types with Flamethrower/FireBlast). However, if you don't assume salamence is about to mega-evolve and dragon dance in your face, you can be very easily swept by the common DD variants.
4. You can tell by usage statistics that the mega-mence is overcentralizing. The meta is currently filled with:
-Mega-Mence (is broken)
-Skarmory, Heatran, Ferrothorn (Bulk to block mega-mence, carry shed shell to resist trapping by magnezone)
-Magnezone (trap the steel types that stop your mence from sweeping)
-Scarf Greninja (revenge OHKO's salamence after a DD with ice beam, clear out enemy fairy types for your mence with gunk shot)
-Landorus-T (intimidate Mega-Mence after a DD, set up rocks against enemy mence)
-Latias (bring your mence back to full)
-Rotom-W (resist mence before a DD, volt switch with lots of SpAtk investment to break a salamence sub)
-Mammoswine (set up rocks against enemy mence, ice shard to kill mence after some prior damage)
That is it. I saw a bunch of competitive matches, and it was so common to see people going against each other with 5/6 pokemon on their team being identical.
Summary: 1. Easy to set up. 2. Hard to revenge kill. 3. Has other options to kill counters. 4. Over-centralizing
Please quickban. It has the same problems as mega-kangaskhan.
I agree with everything you said, but just pointing out that ferrothorn doesn't have the bulk to block it. Mence can rather easily roost stall gyro ball's out of PP while setting up in its face. Adamant variants can 2HKO standard ferro at neutral, and it only takes 1 DD for max defence ferro to get 2HKO'd.
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